How to get out of the friendzone with ex

October 28, 2021

On 10/27/2021 at 8:12 AM, Midwest27 said:

I understand the concept that people do move on. I've just always found the thought of permanently losing contact with someone I've had an intimate history with sad/distressing so I think that is probably the biggest reason why I tend to try to resuscitate dead relationships. It has only served to erode my self esteem/respect over the years and is making my standards of whom I am willing to date drop lower and lower. With the amount of literature there is about getting an ex back, and how popularized the concept is in media, I assumed that people commonly do this.

I really do understand how destructive it is now and how I will probably end up alone or divorced one day if I continue to do this.

I would suggest a look at the concepts of codependency and anxious attachment. I also did this, and every time it would just not offer anything positive. With the most recent person I dated, I worked hard on just accepting and letting go (despite having urges to tell them how I felt) - by obsessing and worrying and trying to negotiate and stay in touch, you're trying to avoid the discomfort of loss, and grief. Telling this person how you feel won't do anything, and sadly, will only push them away.

Life isn't like the movies where you stand in the rain with a declaration of love and everyone's back together... once people aren't interested, that's it. And being 'friends' is only keeping YOU attached. The only thing to do from here is total NC, not trying to get back in touch, and accepting the present reality (that it's over), without living in the past (when you were together) or the future (hoping you'll get back together). Again I'd really suggest reading about Codependency and Anxious Attachment, I think you may find some interesting stuff.

October 28, 2021

33 minutes ago, argoscard1999 said:

I would suggest a look at the concepts of codependency and anxious attachment. I also did this, and every time it would just not offer anything positive. With the most recent person I dated, I worked hard on just accepting and letting go (despite having urges to tell them how I felt) - by obsessing and worrying and trying to negotiate and stay in touch, you're trying to avoid the discomfort of loss, and grief. Telling this person how you feel won't do anything, and sadly, will only push them away.

Life isn't like the movies where you stand in the rain with a declaration of love and everyone's back together... once people aren't interested, that's it. And being 'friends' is only keeping YOU attached. The only thing to do from here is total NC, not trying to get back in touch, and accepting the present reality (that it's over), without living in the past (when you were together) or the future (hoping you'll get back together). Again I'd really suggest reading about Codependency and Anxious Attachment, I think you may find some interesting stuff.

I've heard these terms before and completely agree that they summarize me very well. I have no idea where it comes from in my upbringing but just reading a couple of articles on codependency/anxious attachment makes it very clear to me that this who I am.

It is interesting you brought the part that I bolded since that is also exactly how I approach something like this. I try to completely forget about the reasons for the breakup, only think about better times when we were together, and use that to create this idolized version of someone to imagine what a future with them would be like had we not broken up. With the first person I ever dated, I ended up chasing her for close to a year (after briefly dating), eventually convinced her to give our relationship a chance, and wound up in a very toxic on/off relationship with her. I remember feeling so stupid after a few months passed and I realized how wrong this person was for me. Even though I don't feel the same way at the moment about the woman I am fixated on right now, I think it's very likely that this is just history repeating itself and my perception of her is something I have built up in my head that is not consistent with reality.

I actually have felt somewhat disappointed in myself over the past few days because it makes me feel like I've learned nothing from the past.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Midwest27

October 28, 2021

1 hour ago, Midwest27 said:

I've heard these terms before and completely agree that they summarize me very well. I have no idea where it comes from in my upbringing but just reading a couple of articles on codependency/anxious attachment makes it very clear to me that this who I am.

It is interesting you brought the part that I bolded since that is also exactly how I approach something like this. I try to completely forget about the reasons for the breakup, only think about better times when we were together, and use that to create this idolized version of someone to imagine what a future with them would be like had we not broken up. With the first person I ever dated, I ended up chasing her for close to a year (after briefly dating), eventually convinced her to give our relationship a chance, and wound up in a very toxic on/off relationship with her. I remember feeling so stupid after a few months passed and I realized how wrong this person was for me. Even though I don't feel the same way at the moment about the woman I am fixated on right now, I think it's very likely that this is just history repeating itself and my perception of her is something I have built up in my head that is not consistent with reality.

I actually have felt somewhat disappointed in myself over the past few days because it makes me feel like I've learned nothing from the past.

Firstly, I would really work on NOT feeling bad and disappointed. It's not your fault - or a bad thing - that you're wired this way. It's simply that you're a product of something in your past or your upbringing, and something you can eventually learn to cope and manage with. With this codependency/anxious attachment, we can often end up in fantasy bonds - projecting, hoping, thinking about the future - and getting overly attached (again not a bad thing, it just happens). Even with the past relationship you've mentioned, I'd imagine when you were pursuing her there were probably a lot of red flags that were on display but - perhaps you wanted to be needed? Desired? So when a relationship ends, you still maybe feel that you need these people's validation, or the validation that they still want you in their lives, even as just a friend? Then you don't feel like you've failed, that you're still a desirable person, in some way?

I could be wrong. But I experience the same thing. If an ex doesn't want to be in touch, I used to think "I must be so awful, they don't even want to be friends with me!", etc. It impacted on my self-esteem, and I would, like you, reach out to exes, long after they'd moved on - only to get rejected and feel worse. It was as if, if I could just fix all these broken dynamics, I'd feel good about myself again. Is it something like that for you?

But I really do again just want to say, please don't feel stupid or disappointed in yourself. It's easy to feel that way. And sometimes history does repeat itself a few times before we really get the strength to not act in the same way, or before we really understand the message. With the last person I dated, I really took all the lessons from the past and didn't plead, beg, didn't try and stay friends, didn't wallow around at home, just gave myself a day/few days to really sit with the emotions and then, felt better. It took years to get to this point, but I'm saying, it won't always be this difficult for you.

I would really recommend taking a look at 'Codependency for Dummies', there are some very helpful - and easy - exercise in that book that can help you bring the focus back around to yourself, to rediscover who YOU are, and also help with letting go, acceptance, etc. I also know that this advice might not be what you wanna hear - it probably feels long winded and also easier just to go back to your old habits, and that's OK too. But I really do have faith in you and your ability to get past this and become a stronger person in the future.

Edited October 28, 2021 by argoscard1999

October 28, 2021

On 10/24/2021 at 8:59 AM, Midwest27 said:

I have started seeing my ex girlfriend as friends over the past several months. She broke up with me after a 6 month relationship nearly 2 years ago over communication issues and did not speak to me for over a year. I deeply regretted losing her as we had very similar backgrounds and goals for the future. I felt an immediate spark when I met her and felt our relationship ended prematurely. I heard from her earlier this year after she had returned a text I had sent following a death in her family many months prior. I called her shortly after, apologized for the way things ended, and said I still wanted to try and rebuild things with her. She says she wants to really work on being friends first which I agreed to. I have taken her on nice outings (and paid for all of them) but most of the time I am with her, she seems cold and not at all like the woman I had once dated. I have seen her several times over the past few months and really want her back but each time I try to hint that I am still interested in her she doesn't appear to be very receptive. It has been 6 months since I have started talking to/seeing her again and this is really starting to take an emotional toll on me since I am still in love with her in a lot of ways. I am running out of patience and don't think this is something I can keep up forever. I really just don't know what to do and could use some advice. I have followed all conventional wisdom (giving her space, not appearing needy, not trying to dwell on the past) but nothing has seemed to work. On the one hand I feel like it is quite possible I am wasting my time/youth trying to rekindle a relationship that died a long time ago, but then I wonder why she is still receptive to seeing me knowing I still have romantic feelings for her. I know she is not dating anyone currently, but this whole thing just has me so confused and I really can't read this situation at all.

My general thinking is *she* broke up with you then you don't have much of a shot. I equate GF's interest to a flame. Once it's snuffed out it's extremely difficult to get it started again.

To rekindle that she has to see you as she did before you started dating, and that's pretty hard to do. She was once your GF because she saw you as a catch, obviously.

The biggest issue is that you have not moved on. I think that fact alone makes her reconsider if you were ever the catch that she thought you were. The more and more you pursue her instead of moving on, the more you reinforce that you're not much of a catch. And the relationship was only 6 months long.

She has lost respect for you because you haven't moved on, and because you accepted her friendship request when that's not what you want. No one can love someone that they don't respect. No one can love someone that they can control. And if you're still hung up on her after 2 years, she has control over you, and she knows it.

You have to move on, not to get her back, but because you deserve happiness and not to feel the way you're feeling right now. You have to have some respect for yourself.

Edited October 28, 2021 by dramafreezone

October 28, 2021

1 hour ago, argoscard1999 said:

Firstly, I would really work on NOT feeling bad and disappointed. It's not your fault - or a bad thing - that you're wired this way. It's simply that you're a product of something in your past or your upbringing, and something you can eventually learn to cope and manage with. With this codependency/anxious attachment, we can often end up in fantasy bonds - projecting, hoping, thinking about the future - and getting overly attached (again not a bad thing, it just happens). Even with the past relationship you've mentioned, I'd imagine when you were pursuing her there were probably a lot of red flags that were on display but - perhaps you wanted to be needed? Desired? So when a relationship ends, you still maybe feel that you need these people's validation, or the validation that they still want you in their lives, even as just a friend? Then you don't feel like you've failed, that you're still a desirable person, in some way?

I could be wrong. But I experience the same thing. If an ex doesn't want to be in touch, I used to think "I must be so awful, they don't even want to be friends with me!", etc. It impacted on my self-esteem, and I would, like you, reach out to exes, long after they'd moved on - only to get rejected and feel worse. It was as if, if I could just fix all these broken dynamics, I'd feel good about myself again. Is it something like that for you?

But I really do again just want to say, please don't feel stupid or disappointed in yourself. It's easy to feel that way. And sometimes history does repeat itself a few times before we really get the strength to not act in the same way, or before we really understand the message. With the last person I dated, I really took all the lessons from the past and didn't plead, beg, didn't try and stay friends, didn't wallow around at home, just gave myself a day/few days to really sit with the emotions and then, felt better. It took years to get to this point, but I'm saying, it won't always be this difficult for you.

I would really recommend taking a look at 'Codependency for Dummies', there are some very helpful - and easy - exercise in that book that can help you bring the focus back around to yourself, to rediscover who YOU are, and also help with letting go, acceptance, etc. I also know that this advice might not be what you wanna hear - it probably feels long winded and also easier just to go back to your old habits, and that's OK too. But I really do have faith in you and your ability to get past this and become a stronger person in the future.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Needing to be validated and feel like I am desirable is something very important to me and being rejected is not something I typically handle well. I have only ever used online dating apps mainly out of this fear of rejection and only ever ask for a date when I am 99% sure I will get it. I don't even know how to approach women in public nor how to go about trying to get a first date in person. What I bolded is exactly how I tend to think about an ex not wanting to stay in touch.

Regardless, I know I've made myself look foolish over these past few months with her. Of course she reached out to me when I was in the middle of a major depressive episode (and still am) so I self-deprecated myself, took all the blame for the relationship ending (even though in hindsight I don't believe it was all my fault), and probably have made her lose all respect for me. I've never begged/pleaded, but I did tell her enough about how I felt to let her believe she totally has control over me and can treat me however she wants with no repercussions. I applaud you for being able to improve yourself in that way and really hope I can too before it is too late and I am too old/damaged to be with anyone.

October 28, 2021

1 hour ago, dramafreezone said:

My general thinking is *she* broke up with you then you don't have much of a shot. I equate GF's interest to a flame. Once it's snuffed out it's extremely difficult to get it started again.

To rekindle that she has to see you as she did before you started dating, and that's pretty hard to do. She was once your GF because she saw you as a catch, obviously.

The biggest issue is that you have not moved on. I think that fact alone makes her reconsider if you were ever the catch that she thought you were. The more and more you pursue her instead of moving on, the more you reinforce that you're not much of a catch. And the relationship was only 6 months long.

She has lost respect for you because you haven't moved on, and because you accepted her friendship request when that's not what you want. No one can love someone that they don't respect. No one can love someone that they can control. And if you're still hung up on her after 2 years, she has control over you, and she knows it.

You have to move on, not to get her back, but because you deserve happiness and not to feel the way you're feeling right now. You have to have some respect for yourself.

She is the one who broke up with me. At the time I did nothing about it and stopped talking to her completely because I was so burned out from medical school finishing and didn't think I was going to be staying in the area anyway. I also was angry too since I felt like she had been unappreciative of the efforts I had made to see her while she only came to my town once in all the months we were seeing each other. Our relationship ended with a phone call argument over this.

I am currently in a worse place than I was when we were dating and am far more negative/insecure now than I was in the past. So I don't think I can convince anyone I am a catch right now. Regardless, like I said before, this "friendship" is not helping me at all, is only making me feel like I am someone who can be easily taken advantage of, and like someone who has no self-respect trying to win back an ex who clearly has no interest in me for anything other than a free meal.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Midwest27

October 28, 2021

45 minutes ago, Midwest27 said:

She is the one who broke up with me. At the time I did nothing about it and stopped talking to her completely because I was so burned out from medical school finishing and didn't think I was going to be staying in the area anyway. I also was angry too since I felt like she had been unappreciative of the efforts I had made to see her while she only came to my town once in all the months we were seeing each other. Our relationship ended with a phone call argument over this.

I am currently in a worse place than I was when we were dating and am far more negative/insecure now than I was in the past. So I don't think I can convince anyone I am a catch right now. Regardless, like I said before, this "friendship" is not helping me at all, is only making me feel like I am someone who can be easily taken advantage of, and like someone who has no self-respect trying to win back an ex who clearly has no interest in me for anything other than a free meal.

Why do you just tell her that, you're not in a position to be friends right now and you need to concentrate on yourself right now? That you harbor no ill will towards her, but right now it's best that we don't speak.

October 28, 2021

10 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Why do you just tell her that, you're not in a position to be friends right now and you need to concentrate on yourself right now? That you harbor no ill will towards her, but right now it's best that we don't speak.

At this point I don't think it is even worth it. I sent her a text the day after our "date" this weekend asking about her day went and she didn't even respond. And this was after being in contact almost daily over the past month.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Midwest27

October 29, 2021

1 hour ago, Midwest27 said:

At this point I don't think it is even worth it. I sent her a text the day after our "date" this weekend asking about her day went and she didn't even respond. And this was after being in contact almost daily over the past month.

And that was the last contact you had? Sheesh! Yea, I agree. You don't owe her any nice words. She took advantage of your sincerity for whatever she was getting out of it (validation + the meals & entertainment) and she knew it. No response is the appropriate response, now or in the future.

I started writing a post about your need to develop your sense of own intrinsic value and how you should have expectations too. This was prompted by your comment about dignity. You should be dealing with women as equals, no obsequiousness. It's a two-way street; if they aren't making an effort and meeting your needs too, done. I think all of this will be covered in the codependency material you're reading, so no need to expound.

Now about the friends stuff –– while it is possible for men and women to have an actual friendship, it's rare (must be based on something other than attraction). In a situation like this (former or prospective dating partner) it's never going to work, and it's never to your advantage. The word is code for "you work your ass off (and buy me shyte) while I hold you at arm's length and look for someone else." The mere mention of that word is your cue to exit. It's always BS.

Anyway, I think you've come a long way just in this thread. Wishing you the best.

Edited October 29, 2021 by salparadise

October 29, 2021

15 minutes ago, salparadise said:

And that was the last contact you had? Sheesh! Yea, I agree. You don't owe her any nice words. She took advantage of your sincerity for whatever she was getting out of it (validation + the meals & entertainment) and she knew it. No response is the appropriate response, now or in the future.

Ever hear the quote "if you treat her like a celebrity, she'll treat you like a fan?"

if anyone is given power over someone else, it's difficult as hell for them to not exercise it. He keeps contacting her, and I imagine she loves the attention, particularly if she wakes up one day and isn't feeling the best about herself, she has him to help buoy her spirits. Maybe on some level she knows she's leading him on, but does she want to give up this free attention? Probably something she vacilates with, which is why her contact is inconsistent.

I don't think the woman he dated is a bad person. She's just adapating to their current dynamic. And actually I think the kinder thing for her to do is to ignore him. It's the best thing for him IMO.

October 29, 2021

27 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Ever hear the quote "if you treat her like a celebrity, she'll treat you like a fan?"

if anyone is given power over someone else, it's difficult as hell for them to not exercise it. He keeps contacting her, and I imagine she loves the attention, particularly if she wakes up one day and isn't feeling the best about herself, she has him to help buoy her spirits. Maybe on some level she knows she's leading him on, but does she want to give up this free attention? Probably something she vacilates with, which is why her contact is inconsistent.

I don't think the woman he dated is a bad person. She's just adapating to their current dynamic. And actually I think the kinder thing for her to do is to ignore him. It's the best thing for him IMO.

I don't really go overboard with the acts of kindness when I see her. I did buy her a gift when I last saw her but only because she had bought me something for my birthday a few months ago. I actually think it was something she had bought for me shortly before we broke up around the holidays but couldn't return since it had my name on it. But I have been a lot more enthusiastic whenever I have seen her and it is never reciprocated. She has always looked sort of irritated seeing me and has even made a few personally unkind remarks to me that I would have never tolerated when we were dating.

October 29, 2021

5 hours ago, Midwest27 said:

At this point I don't think it is even worth it. I sent her a text the day after our "date" this weekend asking about her day went and she didn't even respond. And this was after being in contact almost daily over the past month.

I don't think a last call is worth it, either.

She is fine letting this fizzle out. I would follow suit so you can finally move on, too.

October 29, 2021

Once they fall out of love with you they will usually never love you again.

It would be better for you if you moved on and cut the cord so you can begin the healing process. Get involved with other aspects of your life and date others. In time, this pain will pass. Good luck to you.

October 29, 2021

17 hours ago, Midwest27 said:

I don't really go overboard with the acts of kindness when I see her. I did buy her a gift when I last saw her but only because she had bought me something for my birthday a few months ago. I actually think it was something she had bought for me shortly before we broke up around the holidays but couldn't return since it had my name on it. But I have been a lot more enthusiastic whenever I have seen her and it is never reciprocated. She has always looked sort of irritated seeing me and has even made a few personally unkind remarks to me that I would have never tolerated when we were dating.

4 billion females in this world man. Once you pare down to age-appropriate women, that's still at least a couple thousand viable dating candidates for you. You literally would not have time to date every woman that would like to date you. Life is too short to get hung up on one.

Edited October 29, 2021 by dramafreezone

October 29, 2021

On 10/27/2021 at 2:34 AM, Midwest27 said:

I just am not very open about relationships during our sessions since I have some trust issues talking about things of that nature openly.

But you're wide open here on a forum with strangers who aren't trained or licensed in psychotherapy. You seem to trust us enough and we're not professionally qualified to help you.

Quote

have been a lot more enthusiastic whenever I have seen her and it is never reciprocated. She has always looked sort of irritated seeing me and has even made a few personally unkind remarks to me that I would have never tolerated when we were dating.

This is a woman who is done dealing with you. She just hasn't unzipped the lizard on you, but keep on acting oblivious to what she's conveying and that will be her only alternative to get you to leave her be.

The more you prostrate yourself like a doormat in front of her, the less respect she will muster for your esteem. Contempt will be the next phase she'll reach for and you don't want to be on the receiving end of that.

You're not reading the room--and that's due to willful, demonstrated stubbornness on your part. You don't want to see/hear/acknowledge what is falling out in experience at your feet--you want what you want-damb what she wants. However, you cannot have what you want.

Children keep pestering for what they can't have. Adults learn to read the room and they leave situations that aren't panning out in real time.

You're not in the friendzone anymore... you about to step into the contempt zone where things become abundantly clear and will hurt your feelings.

Edited October 29, 2021 by kendahke

October 29, 2021

15 minutes ago, kendahke said:

But you're wide open here on a forum with strangers who aren't trained or licensed in psychotherapy. You seem to trust us enough and we're not professionally qualified to help you.

This is a woman who is done dealing with you. She just hasn't unzipped the lizard on you, but keep on acting oblivious to what she's conveying and that will be her only alternative to get you to leave her be.

The more you prostrate yourself like a doormat in front of her, the less respect she will muster for your esteem. Contempt will be the next phase she'll reach for and you don't want to be on the receiving end of that.

You're not reading the room--and that's due to willful, demonstrated stubbornness on your part. You don't want to see/hear/acknowledge what is falling out in experience at your feet--you want what you want-damb what she wants. However, you cannot have what you want.

Children keep pestering for what they can't have. Adults learn to read the room and they leave situations that aren't panning out in real time.

You're not in the friendzone anymore... you about to step into the contempt zone where things become abundantly clear and will hurt your feelings.

Understood. I wasn't talking to her at all for much of the past 3 months since the summer started anyway so I will just go back to that and never interact with her again.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Midwest27

October 29, 2021

So... A long distance friendship/pseudo-relationship with a woman who broke up with you and you are now describing as "cold" and "distant". I don't see a positive end to this, my friend... I think you would be better off distancing yourself from this woman and finding someone else. Also, fair warning, keeping in touch with an ex as "friends" can be problematic in future relationships. I suggest cutting ties and moving on.

October 31, 2021

Women need to be truly desired and not placed on pedestals. And they can tell by the look in your eyes if you truly desire them or if you're just lusting after them.

October 31, 2021

3 hours ago, Symbiosis said:

And they can tell by the look in your eyes if you truly desire them or if you're just lusting after them.

Ha, if only it were that simple.

October 31, 2021

11 hours ago, Symbiosis said:

Women need to be truly desired and not placed on pedestals. And they can tell by the look in your eyes if you truly desire them or if you're just lusting after them.

Yeah I think did this totally wrong. I definitely put her on a pedestal and always had a desperate and lustful look whenever I was around her. As I said, I've been in a really difficult place over the past 6 months for unrelated matters since I started talking to her again so I am trying to not be too hard on myself in that regard as my self-esteem has been at an all time low. As to why she kept asking if I wanted to meet up and acting like she has been looking forward to seeing me over text is irrelevant and I don't think I will ever get an answer. Maybe she was initially interested and this behavior has turned her off, or perhaps she just enjoys watching me suffer. But I think her ghosting me last week after I went so far out of my way to come up with a creative and thoughtful day for us to spend together was very inconsiderate regardless. I spent days planning it out and between picking her up, taking her out, and then driving her and myself home, I probably spent over 6 hours in my car and spent over $200 (which is probably more than I spent on several dates combined when she was actually my girlfriend). I know I deserve better than this.

I have a date with someone else in a few days who seems genuinely interested in knowing me so I will just try to move on with this and forget about her.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Midwest27

October 31, 2021

1 hour ago, Midwest27 said:

I have a date with someone else in a few days who seems genuinely interested in knowing me so I will just try to move on with this and forget about her.

Awesome man. Just go out and have fun. Whatever you do, don't bring up this other woman while on the date.

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