LD affair looks like turning into a real relationship and I'm having a lot of anxiety

[mark clemson]

Hmm. Well, everyone lies, so if lying makes other claims not believable, then no one should believe anything anyone says ever.

People lie at different times and different ways and under different circumstances. Just because someone lies at certain times by no means proves they are always lying or lying about some specific other point.

No one can say for certain whether he's lying. The evidence that does exist suggests that he isn't. 

- He has a 10 year relationship with you, so he doesn't actually need to "cry abuse"

- There are supportive friends/3rd parties. These folks may have actual insight into how difficult his situation at home is.

- He is not making outrageous claims. His wife took a swat at him; she's says nasty things (but doesn't carry through). She vents emotionally on him, but is ok with the kids. These are, IMO, mild abuse and believable things, not outrageous claims.

- These aren't the kinds of things you can call the police about (since they're not easily provable), nor does he necessarily want the mother of his kids arrested.

 

It's reasonable to believe that, in all likelihood:

- He's got a difficult partner and she's presumably getting worse over time (common)

- He's thought about moving out/leaving her (common)

- He's now testing the waters more seriously and is monkeybranching (or attempting to) to you due presumably to insecurity on being fully on his own (monkeybranching is reasonably common)

 

None of this is really outside the realm and the fact that this particular wife is being cheated on doesn't automatically make her not mildly abusive. It's certainly always possible he is lying, but until there's some actual evidence that what he tells you are lies, it's not unreasonable to believe him. IF you get that evidence, then you should reconsider. 

I would point out to that plenty of people dating get lied to - it's certainly common enough and definitely isn't limited to married APs.

https://www.aaas.org/news/science-seeks-understand-why-everybody-lies

[mark clemson]

^^  BTW, IF you find out e.g. that he didn't actually rent this place AND actually move into - THEN you start to have some reasons to doubt his whole story. THAT would be some actual evidence that bears on the situation.  Moving out can take some time, but if he's not fully moved in in some reasonable amount of time - well, that casts some real doubt on all this.

Edited December 16, 2021 by mark clemson

[pepperbird2]

16 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

He is supposed to get the keys today if he pays January rent early.

She didn't punch him in the face, she "tried to". He said he was going to call the cops and she said "Who do you think they will believe". 

Do you think the police are reasonable when it comes to domestic violence? If she actually punched him and he had the marks to prove it could be easier to prove, but even then it's way harder for a man in those situations. 

Sorry, that doesn't wash. It's an excuse.

[pepperbird2]

15 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I think because I am so far away I don't feel I am in the situation so much as just giving him advice or being the person he vents to... I knew she was abusive but not really to this degree. I do not think she loves him though. The whole thing is so confusing actually. I am going to talk to him about some of these things tonight that you all have brought up...She sounds like she needs to get control of her emotions.

I feel like if I broke it off now I would be leaving him with no one there for him. I know that's not really on me or my problem, but when you love someone it's hard to do that. He told me I make him feel like light in the darkness. It sounds cheesy but I know what it's like to be abused and have your spirit beaten down by your spouse. Maybe that's why I have so much empathy. 

I don't really want to break up with him either. If anything I really should have done it before and told him to contact me when he was moved out... but now I feel like I am in too deep and too in love to do that. 

this isn't empathy. it's projection. you're trying to rationalize rotten behavior on his part.
It seems to me that a huge part f you feels guilty about helping him cheat on his spouse. You really aren't comfortable with that, because at heart you're an honest and caring person so you're trying to make it okay. Somehow, if he's "abused" , then it's not his fault. It's his wife's fault, because if not for her,  he wouldn't be "forced" to cheat.
You are making someone else responsible for his behavior.

 

[pepperbird2]

14 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

Okay well I am going off of what's been said... I also think he should take the kid if she is so abusive. I told him he should record her outbursts because if they are in a custody war it might help. But what do I know. 

You had a good idea. Did he do it?
Again your gut is screaming at you. It's warning you to slow down and really think all this through.
It's okay to tell him you need time to process all that's gone on. If he really cares about you, he will understand and give you that space and time.

[pepperbird2]

15 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Other people's abusive relationships are something you need to stay out of.
Plenty people have wasted their life trying to help an abused person to find that that person just can't stay away from their abuser...
Playing the "white knight" or the "saviour" can be a thankless endeavour.
There can be an addiction associated with abuse, they can get a high out of the chaos  and the drama. They like the attention, they like playing the victim.
Once "saved" they can get bored, they miss the  excitement even if it is negative or hurtful.
Too many nice, kind, sensitive decent people on here thought they were a so much better option, to find their partner zooms back  to their abusive SO as soon as they are able to do so, or as soon as their abuser clicks their fingers.

See the glee involved in telling you about how his wife tried to punch him...

Exacrly.
We in the UK, have had had in the past week two very upsetting cases of child abuse and murder by crazy and cruel women come to court.
Google Star Hobson and Arthur Labinjo-Hughes. It is shocking.

He is letting his child down badly if he leaving his child with an abusive woman...

BUT frankly I think he is fooling you and playing the victim card.
Just about every man in an affair has an abusive and a crazy harridan of a wife...

I get the sense from the OP that she's a kind and caring person who wants to see the best in this guy. I can understand that--she cares about him. The question is who is the person she has feelings for? The real him or the person she thinks he is?



 

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

I get the sense from the OP that she's a kind and caring person who wants to see the best in this guy. I can understand that--she cares about him. The question is who is the person she has feelings for? The real him or the person she thinks he is?

I agree.
Many OW are caring people who think they are "saving" a poor depressed, downtrodden man from his horrible wife.
They buy into this narrative 100%, especially if they are or have been in a similar situation.
BUT, this is not singles dating, this is an affair and can boil down in some cases to merely extra marital sex from his POV...
He presents not as  some "predator" MM, he presents as a poor victim and women do tend to be suckers for men who are being "abused " and mistreated by other women.
I think it triggers "competition", so she feels she needs to kiss him all better, as she is the superior, nicer, more attractive, more intelligent, more amusing, sexier option...
He has to choose her, it is a no brainer... that is until he doesn't... 

IF this man does leave and gets his own bachelor pad, the next hurdle for the OP will be what he will do with his new found freedom. 
As a single man he will then have his choice of women.
Does he really need a LDR with the woman who helped him cheat on his wife?
As his confidence increases, his need for a "saviour" will wane...

[Starswillshine]

Considering you have only been around this guy once (even over extended time)... and have not met any one who knows him nor have your people met him... I would be extremely cautious... 

I have a friend who upended her entire life for a guy who was woo-ing her via online pen pals type thing. For years. She left her marriage for this guy. They eventually got married. We were all telling her that things did not add up. But she knew him so well, so obviously, we were all wrong. Except, unfortunately, we were all right. They married eventually. And then little by little that fantasy land she dreamed of started to fall apart. When the emotions of the honeymoon phase start to wear off, she started to see what was so obvious to all of us. Every single thing about his life was a lie. They are now divorced, thankfully. It was sad to watch, but I am glad she got away from him without significant harm. 

[Wiseman2]

On 10/19/2021 at 5:48 PM, ScientificThoughts said:

 We were both unhappy in our relationships, 

I am in the process of leaving my ex boyfriend and I move out in 2 weeks. He, on the other hand is married. 

 We live about 12 hours away from each other so we met half way for a weekend. 

I feel like I am going to get hurt. 

You're already hurting.

How long were you dating your BF? What was the reason for the breakup? Have you moved out? 

You're 12 hours apart and only met that one time for a weekend tryst?

It seems like you have not processed your breakup. You're clinging to a weekend tryst and chitchatting but you know nothing about him or his wife or his life or his family.

What makes you believe he's going to give up his home, profession, wife and family to rent some apartment near you?

Is he foolish enough to walk away from his house and job for someone he met and had sex with once?

Do you still speak with your exbf? 

 

[HowToQuit]

18 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

He is supposed to get the keys today if he pays January rent early.

I am in Canada and I do not understand this comment (and I own rental properties!). I do strongly recommend to get the address and check it out online. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

this isn't empathy. it's projection.

Yes! This sums up this whole thread in five words. 

[stillafool]

19 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I have known him a long time and he has never gone back to an ex.

She's more than just an ex, she's his wife with a child.  Completely different.

[ScientificThoughts]

15 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Hmm. Well, everyone lies, so if lying makes other claims not believable, then no one should believe anything anyone says ever.

People lie at different times and different ways and under different circumstances. Just because someone lies at certain times by no means proves they are always lying or lying about some specific other point.

No one can say for certain whether he's lying. The evidence that does exist suggests that he isn't. 

- He has a 10 year relationship with you, so he doesn't actually need to "cry abuse"

- There are supportive friends/3rd parties. These folks may have actual insight into how difficult his situation at home is.

- He is not making outrageous claims. His wife took a swat at him; she's says nasty things (but doesn't carry through). She vents emotionally on him, but is ok with the kids. These are, IMO, mild abuse and believable things, not outrageous claims.

- These aren't the kinds of things you can call the police about (since they're not easily provable), nor does he necessarily want the mother of his kids arrested.

 

It's reasonable to believe that, in all likelihood:

- He's got a difficult partner and she's presumably getting worse over time (common)

- He's thought about moving out/leaving her (common)

- He's now testing the waters more seriously and is monkeybranching (or attempting to) to you due presumably to insecurity on being fully on his own (monkeybranching is reasonably common)

 

None of this is really outside the realm and the fact that this particular wife is being cheated on doesn't automatically make her not mildly abusive. It's certainly always possible he is lying, but until there's some actual evidence that what he tells you are lies, it's not unreasonable to believe him. IF you get that evidence, then you should reconsider. 

I would point out to that plenty of people dating get lied to - it's certainly common enough and definitely isn't limited to married APs.

https://www.aaas.org/news/science-seeks-understand-why-everybody-lies

Thank you. If for whatever reason I find out he didn't actually get the apartment, then I will reevaluate what I am doing.

5 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

this isn't empathy. it's projection. you're trying to rationalize rotten behavior on his part.
It seems to me that a huge part f you feels guilty about helping him cheat on his spouse. You really aren't comfortable with that, because at heart you're an honest and caring person so you're trying to make it okay. Somehow, if he's "abused" , then it's not his fault. It's his wife's fault, because if not for her,  he wouldn't be "forced" to cheat.
You are making someone else responsible for his behavior.

 

You're right. I absolutely feel guilty about him sneaking around with me. I have told him that myself. 

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I agree.
Many OW are caring people who think they are "saving" a poor depressed, downtrodden man from his horrible wife.
They buy into this narrative 100%, especially if they are or have been in a similar situation.
BUT, this is not singles dating, this is an affair and can boil down in some cases to merely extra marital sex from his POV...
He presents not as  some "predator" MM, he presents as a poor victim and women do tend to be suckers for men who are being "abused " and mistreated by other women.
I think it triggers "competition", so she feels she needs to kiss him all better, as she is the superior, nicer, more attractive, more intelligent, more amusing, sexier option...
He has to choose her, it is a no brainer... that is until he doesn't... 

IF this man does leave and gets his own bachelor pad, the next hurdle for the OP will be what he will do with his new found freedom. 
As a single man he will then have his choice of women.
Does he really need a LDR with the woman who helped him cheat on his wife?
As his confidence increases, his need for a "saviour" will wane...

I have thought about this. I know he loves me. I don't think he will find another woman but time will tell I guess. I do trust him.

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You're already hurting.

How long were you dating your BF? What was the reason for the breakup? Have you moved out? 

You're 12 hours apart and only met that one time for a weekend tryst?

It seems like you have not processed your breakup. You're clinging to a weekend tryst and chitchatting but you know nothing about him or his wife or his life or his family.

What makes you believe he's going to give up his home, profession, wife and family to rent some apartment near you?

Is he foolish enough to walk away from his house and job for someone he met and had sex with once?

Do you still speak with your exbf? 

 

I was with my BF for 5 years. I was planning on leaving the last few months... but I got the courage to do it finally. Yes, we still talk - about our kid. Yes, I am moved out. 

We are 12 hours apart and have met twice, for 2 long weekends. Once in October and once in December. We had an amazing time both weekends. I have known him 20+ years, since we were kids though. 

I believe he is going to leave because his wife is abusive, and doesn't love him. There is nothing there to salvage. I have seen pictures of the apartment and he said he put a deposit down on it already. If this ends up not being the case then I am going to reevaluate what I am doing. He only told her he wanted a divorce in September. Taking 3 months to move out isn't absurd given the rental and housing market in his area. 

 

I feel like everyone here has this idea of what MM are. And I agree you're probably all mostly right as you've seen it time and time again. Maybe I am just in complete denial or maybe he isn't actually this horrible person you all make him sound to be. I don't want to keep defending him when I have no reason to not believe what he says at this point. He has done everything he has said he was going to thus far. I didn't know about how bad the abuse was until recently, and he said he didn't either and realized it had been going on for at least the last 5 years. I am definitely not a saviour here... But I know I am that emotional support person. He has told me that himself. I love him, I just want him to be happy. 

[ScientificThoughts]

4 hours ago, HowToQuit said:

I am in Canada and I do not understand this comment (and I own rental properties!). I do strongly recommend to get the address and check it out online. 

Sorry I didn't see this - You've never let someone move their stuff in early? I have done it a couple times if I've already paid rent/deposit. They let you move your things in a bit early. 

I have already checked out the place online. It does exist... Everything he has said about it is true. I don't think he got the keys yesterday as he would have mentioned it to me. 

[Wiseman2]

30 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

if I've already paid rent/deposit. They let you move your things in a bit early. I have already checked out the place online. It does exist.

Not if you have to sign a lease. It's a liability if there's no lease in place.

But that is beside the point. He's married with a job, family, house etc.  So  looking up apts. is nonsense.

Do you really believe he is going to drop his job, lose his house, and wife and family for someone he met once on a weekend tryst?

 Guard your heart and work on unravelling and ending things with your BF. Have you moved out of his place?

[stillafool]

51 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I don't think he got the keys yesterday as he would have mentioned it to me.

Something that important - I'm surprised you didn't ask him if he got the keys? Why not?  Did he pay January's rent early?

Edited December 16, 2021 by stillafool

[HowToQuit]

1 hour ago, ScientificThoughts said:

Sorry I didn't see this - You've never let someone move their stuff in early? I have done it a couple times if I've already paid rent/deposit. They let you move your things in a bit early. 

I have already checked out the place online. It does exist... Everything he has said about it is true. I don't think he got the keys yesterday as he would have mentioned it to me. 

Unless he lives outside GTA / GVA .. not a lot of properties are sitting vacant in these two areas for landlords to allow move in for free 15 days earlier. 

[ScientificThoughts]

I posted a bunch of quote responses to everyone but it says it's hidden... Not sure why? 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I have already checked out the place online. It does exist...

I’m sure it exists. It doesn’t mean that he’s told his wife he is leaving, he’s packed his things, he has bought some new pots and dishes, and he is prepared to file for divorce. 

Let’s not make assumptions.

[Lisa]

1 hour ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I posted a bunch of quote responses to everyone but it says it's hidden... Not sure why? 

There was a hyperlink in one of the quotes.  Due to problems with spammers, relatively new posters need to have hyperlinks approved before the post comes live.  To avoid this in future, remove the hyperlink from whatever you're quoting

~ mod.

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

. I don't think he got the keys yesterday as he would have mentioned it to me.

Why did he not say anything?
Something this huge should have been the first thing he talked to you about, even of it was just to say something like, "I can't get the keys today, some  mix up..."
The fact he said absolutely nothing is suspicious.
He likely knew you were on tenterhooks, yet he said nothing to alleviate your anxiety..

[ScientificThoughts]

32 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Why did he not say anything?
Something this huge should have been the first thing he talked to you about, even of it was just to say something like, "I can't get the keys today, some  mix up..."
The fact he said absolutely nothing is suspicious.
He likely knew you were on tenterhooks, yet he said nothing to alleviate your anxiety..

I never asked because he has been working two jobs in order to afford to move and survive, so I knew he wouldn't have had time yesterday to meet with the landlord. I will bring it up to him soon. 

[elaine567]

24 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I will bring it up to him soon. 

Why would you do that?
Surely he needs to keep you informed.
He is the one with the impediment to you and he moving forward.
He needs to show you he is serious.
You don't want to be the one nagging him for answers.
He needs to do all this because he wants to, not because you "forced his hand".

[BaileyB]

6 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I don't want to keep defending him when I have no reason to not believe what he says at this point.

Do you normally trusting? Has it caused you problems in previous relationships? To say that it’s ill advised to trust this man who you have met only once and who you know to be capable of lying and betraying a woman he has made promises too is an understatement -

You can’t say that his actions match his words because he has yet to actually begin the process of leaving his marriage (ie, telling his wife and filing for divorce) and you are not there in person to verify anything. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

14 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You can’t say that his actions match his words because he has yet to actually begin the process of leaving his marriage (ie, telling his wife and filing for divorce) and you are not there in person to verify anything. 

Nor to ask important questions.  

 

On 10/22/2021 at 1:42 PM, ScientificThoughts said:

Originally I was looking for advice on how to manage my anxiety but my anxiety exists for many reasons in this relationship clearly... and now after posting here I am having a hard time even trusting him. 

 

On 10/25/2021 at 2:34 PM, ScientificThoughts said:

Well... Yes. I am assuming he is looking for places for December 1st. I'm honestly wondering if he will make an excuse but we'll see. I know with Christmas and everything that month it could be expensive. I'm not going to tell him about this timeline though

You have anxiety wondering if he's telling you the truth about moving yet you won't ask him if he got the keys yesterday and did he pay January's rent.