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LD affair looks like turning into a real relationship and I'm having a lot of anxiety

ScientificThoughts

By ScientificThoughts
in The Other Man / Woman

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elaine567 Established Member

elaine567

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

got pretty jealous and upset. He apologized and said he shouldn't have said that, it was a d*ck thing to say he just wants to make her mad so she leaves. That he loves me. But it really made me second guess everything. Like why not just tell her to leave? There are so many other ways than just doing something like that? 

He cannot just tell her to leave because like so many men in affairs he is no doubt conflict avoidant.
He would rather leave the nudes on show than talk to her like an adult...

stillafool Established Member

stillafool

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

Hi family is toxic so I honestly wouldn't care a lot if they didn't like me. I just don't want to be that hated member of the family I guess...

Well you're going to have to get over this attitude if you are planning to be with someone elses husband who has a kid.  You're going to have to be strong and let a lot of crap roll off your back because it will be coming.

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ScientificThoughts Established Member

ScientificThoughts

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1 minute ago, S2B said:

Why would you think this is turning in to a real relationship?

he isn’t moving to make it a real relationship - you are still his secret.

you are his OW.

it hasn’t changed. Can you admit that?

I admit it. Each day that passes it becomes more clear.... We were already discussing our next plans to meet and I asked him if he wanted to wait until he is moved out first and he said "I don't know" :( 

jwi71 Established Member

jwi71

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I admit it. Each day that passes it becomes more clear.... We were already discussing our next plans to meet and I asked him if he wanted to wait until he is moved out first and he said "I don't know" :( 

What do you want out of him?  What's your endgame here?  What advice or insight are you looking for?

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ScientificThoughts Established Member

ScientificThoughts

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4 minutes ago, jwi71 said:

What do you want out of him?  What's your endgame here?  What advice or insight are you looking for?

I want a relationship with him... but I'd like him to not be living with his wife. Because it is still early I haven't put much pressure about him moving out but the ore we meet I know the more it will bother me and I'm not going to put up with it much more. 

Originally I was looking for advice on how to manage my anxiety but my anxiety exists for many reasons in this relationship clearly... and now after posting here I am having a hard time even trusting him. 

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HowToQuit Established Member

HowToQuit

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

We have discussed it to some degree. We both have a small child so we don't want to exactly leave them but there is an option to move "closer" to each other. We just said we would come to that bridge when it's time to cross it. 

Does “closer” mean changing countries for one of you? Logistical complexity #1. Also, with shared custody, I do not see how “closer” may work without impeding on another parent’s right to see this child (his or yours). Complexity #2
Something to think about. My practical advice has already been spelt out here: cut your losses now.  

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ScientificThoughts Established Member

ScientificThoughts

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8 minutes ago, HowToQuit said:

Does “closer” mean changing countries for one of you? Logistical complexity #1. Also, with shared custody, I do not see how “closer” may work without impeding on another parent’s right to see this child (his or yours). Complexity #2
Something to think about. My practical advice has already been spelt out here: cut your losses now.  

We live a 12 hour drive away right now. "Closer" would be about an hour plane ride from each other. 

PotatoHead Established Member

PotatoHead

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

We live a 12 hour drive away right now. "Closer" would be about an hour plane ride from each other. 

 

Sounds like a difficult situation.  Possibly why he isn't ready to jump ship quite yet.  In order for you two to be together, some serious sacrifices would need to be made.  Unless it is somehow possible to relocate with your kids.

jwi71 Established Member

jwi71

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:
Quote

I want a relationship with him... but I'd like him to not be living with his wife. Because it is still early I haven't put much pressure about him moving out but the ore we meet I know the more it will bother me and I'm not going to put up with it much more. 

I will assume you mean he get a divorce (D), move out and begin an open relationship(R) with you.  

And that's the rub.  You aren't in an open/public relationship because of the situation he chooses to remain in.  And you complicity accept.

You can't control him so lets work on you.  What can you control?  What can you do?  Are you so dependent on his words and, to date, inaction?

Which leads to the next rub....the hope that tomorrow he actually does <whatever>.  That ruinous poisonous hope.  This forum is literally littered with 1000's of others like you.  Go read a few stories.  Just pick them randomly.  You will find your own story oft repeated - only the names have changed.   See what I see.

Quote

Originally I was looking for advice on how to manage my anxiety but my anxiety exists for many reasons in this relationship clearly... and now after posting here I am having a hard time even trusting him. 

Every new romance begins with the intoxicating giddiness and highs of discovery.  And also insecurities, fears, doubts an uncertainties.  Where "failure" is a blow to oneself...I'm not good enough.  Rejected.  Unworthy.  

But not here.  Its...different.  Now there is a ready-made excuse if it doesn't work.  That mean conniving wife:  Frigid.  Abusive.  Neglectful.  Probably "let herself go" too.  Only after his money.  She'll ruin him if he leaves. 

He's the victim.  I'm the victim.  We're the victim. 

Its HER fault we can't be together.  Now the failure isn't you or him.  Its her.  Your shared foe.  And this is a dark tie that binds.  

Read your thread OP.  Do you see anything? (those excuses?)

I wish I had a better message.  But I think you need to start hearing this.  Well reading but you get the idea.

 

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ScientificThoughts Established Member

ScientificThoughts

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5 minutes ago, jwi71 said:

 

I've read through a couple threads. I see where you're all coming from. I feel pretty crappy today about everything and just want to cry. We've said our good mornings already but now my anxiety is at an all time high. Ugh. I don't really have anyone to blame but myself I guess. 

PotatoHead Established Member

PotatoHead

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I've read through a couple threads. I see where you're all coming from. I feel pretty crappy today about everything and just want to cry. We've said our good mornings already but now my anxiety is at an all time high. Ugh. I don't really have anyone to blame but myself I guess. 

No need to beat yourself up over it.  You haven't done anything wrong.  We can't stop ourselves from developing feelings for someone, getting our hopes up, etc.  Can be hard to keep those feeling in check because of the situation, especially amidst that new relationship energy and excitement.

Not saying it could never turn into something more, but this guy is seriously messing up the chances of it working out because of his failure to commit one way or another.

I was in a similar situation, both separated but still married with kids in a LDR.  It was a seemingly impossible situation, but I was willing to do absolutely anything to close that distance gap and be with her and I made sure she knew that. 

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ExpatInItaly Established Member

ExpatInItaly

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I want a relationship with him.

Be careful what you wish for. 

This guy is a total jerk who treats women like caca. You included. 

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Wiseman2 Established Member

Wiseman2

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

he just wants to make her mad so she leaves.

If he digs in his pockets for an attorney he could leave.  Bit of a victim attitude and sadistic streak? Yes back up, he's not good for your well being. people change and he's not who thought he was.

BaileyB Established Member

BaileyB

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

Last night while we were talking he said "I should just start talking to 15 women and get their nudes and leave my phone open so she sees it". He just wants to make her mad so she leaves.

Nobody is forcing him to stay in his marriage against his will. 

These are not the words of a mature, responsible, adult man. These are the words of a conflict avoidant man-child - he thinks if he misbehaves he will force her to make the decision and do all the work. 

What does that tell you about this man? Put yourself in the wife’s position, 10 years down the road and he is unhappy with something… this is how he problems solves, communicates with his spouse, and takes responsibility for himself and his relationships. Any chance you will be thinking - “the warning signs were there and I ignored them?”

Edited by BaileyB
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BaileyB Established Member

BaileyB

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I want a relationship with him... but I'd like him to not be living with his wife.

Obviously, what woman wants to be in a relationship with a man who is married and living with another woman? 

4 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

Because it is still early I haven't put much pressure about him moving out but the ore we meet I know the more it will bother me

Of course it will bother you - you are dating another woman’s husband!

You do realize that it will take them years to settle their divorce. Moving out and filing the papers is only the beginning of this journey. There is much to settle. It will set him back financially - half of his assets will go to his wife and depending on their situation, he may owe her child and spousal support for years. Logistically, he needs to find other accommodation, perhaps sell the home, buy new furniture. He will need to give his child time to adapt to their new circumstance/home/custody situation. If his wife is crazy and doesn’t cope well with the divorce, that will make it all that much harder for him and his children. Realistically, he is YEARS away from being in a place where he is ready to commit to another serious relationship. If he gets serious with you now, he will be jumping from the pot to the frying pan. And this,  doesn’t even begin to consider the fact that you do not live close and you have children you do not want to uproot (may not even be allowed depending on your custody agreement).

Assuming that he is actually a good guy and he is telling the truth about their plan to divorce, there are just way too many barriers here. Life is complex and timing is everything - the possibility that this will turn into a healthy long term relationship for you is very slim. 

Edited by BaileyB
Distraught1 Established Member

Distraught1

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/20/2021 at 9:45 AM, ScientificThoughts said:

He said it's been bad for about 3 years but he decided he was done trying just before he contacted me. 

 

On 10/20/2021 at 12:23 PM, ScientificThoughts said:

The son is 3.

 

On 10/20/2021 at 12:23 PM, ScientificThoughts said:

They've been discussing separation/house/custody a lot but she is very flip floppy

 

On 10/20/2021 at 12:23 PM, ScientificThoughts said:

he said he'd been trying to win her over since then

On 10/20/2021 at 12:23 PM, ScientificThoughts said:

She has tried once or twice to say she wants to do counselling

 

On 10/20/2021 at 9:51 AM, ScientificThoughts said:

by doing it in secret but he was a little impatient

All of this makes me question the validity of his intentions. So after the birth of thier son, his wife says she no longer loves him? Seems odd. He has tried to win back her affection for the past 3 years to no avail? But now he asks for divorce and suddenly she is interested in marital counseling and flip floppy about separation, divorce, etc. It's possible that he is in a dysfunctional marriage but is probably not going to take immediate action to end it. You may just be the ego stroke he needed after feeling pathetic for 3 years. He may or may not be getting sex at home but he was impatient in seeing you because he's horny. Perhaps this new born confidence is turning his wife back to him? And like others have said he subtly makes it feel like a competition between you and the wife - never knowing which he will choose or if you can believe what he is saying. 

You feel a strong connection because of the history and now, of course, because of the intimacy, especially if you felt for some reason that your fiancé was not the one and this guy is.

I'm sorry to chime in like all the others here but I think...he is not the one. You just got out of a relationship. Give yourself some healthy space and then see in a month or two if there have been any changes on his end. I doubt there will be. I wish you the very best. And don't beat yourself up. It's very hard to see clearly when you are feeling all the romantic endorphins, etc. Especially if you are vulnerable and trusting.          

This doesn't sound like he is going to making any moves to leave his marriage any time soon.

Edited by Distraught1
elaine567 Established Member

elaine567

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, ScientificThoughts said:

I really don't want to think I am just a side fling to him, considering we've known each other since we were teens. Would he really do that to me? The monkey branch thing seems accurate. I am feeling defeated today :( 

You say you were always losing touch/fading out over the years, who was usually the main instigator of keeping in touch, who tended to fade out?

The problem here is that unhappily married men are often on the lookout on the internet for old flames, HS sweethearts, exes, old co workers, old acquaintances etc. who may be still harbouring some feelings for them. 
Finding a OW can be difficult, but someone who is already very interested makes it easier. 
If he can fan the flames then he may be able to persuade her to overlook  the fact he is married.
You were perfect as you contacted him first and he jumped at the chance...
The romantic aspect of reconnection after so many years is often unfortunately spoiled by the fact he is married and is likely going nowhere. 
She is thinking hearts and flower, he is thinking extra marital sex...

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anika99 Established Member

anika99

Posted
Posted
On 10/22/2021 at 9:04 AM, ScientificThoughts said:

I got pretty jealous and upset. He apologized and said he shouldn't have said that, it was a d*ck thing to say he just wants to make her mad so she leaves. That he loves me. But it really made me second guess everything. Like why not just tell her to leave? There are so many other ways than just doing something like that? 

I'm late to the party but the above was a very good question with a very simple answer. He doesn't just tell her to leave because he is conflict avoidant and passive aggressive. Two characteristics that are very common in cheaters. Two very toxic characteristics. The conflict avoidant passive aggressive man is never honest about their feelings and intentions because honesty is just too scary for them. Being honest means facing another person's pain and/or anger and doing the hard work of making changes. So much easier to lie and pretend everything is okay while lying and stabbing your loved ones in the back. When your MM becomes unhappy with you and no longer cares about you, you will be the last one to know. He won't say 'hey, this just isn't working for me, I need to end our relationship now' because that would make you upset and maybe you would cry or get angry and that would be just too unpleasant for him. So he'll never end the relationship with you, he'll just become a jerk, start doing things to piss you off, bad mouth you to everyone else, cheat on you and hope that one day you figure out that you should leave. 

I'm sorry to say that your MM has no solid plan to leave. Oh first they need to sell the house but before they can sell the house he needs to do renovations but he can't do renovations because every time he tries his wife starts bugging him to take care of his son. Bwhahahaha...sorry but to someone who is not emotionally invested this is laughable and obviously going nowhere. When two people are as unhappy as your MM and his wife claim to be they will do whatever it takes to part ways as quickly as possible. Women usually can't tolerate living with a man they don't love for a second longer than is absolutely necessary. I have had numerous family and friends go through separation and divorce and once they made up their minds they parted ways quickly, divorces take time but moving out is easy when you really want to. I myself have separated from a man when I was poor, had kids and had no idea how we were going to make it on our own but I knew I had to go no matter what. And I'm not a risk taker, I'm a horrible procrastinator and worry wart. I hate changes and I'm not the type to take a leap of faith but even I know that when a relationship is over it's over and it's time to  go. 

Even if your MM is really planning to move and divorce (very doubtful) he is being very selfish about it. He is using you as his crutch and free therapist. He is causing you pain and anxiety but sucking you into his marital drama and making you a part of his mess. How is listening to him whine and complain about his wife the least bit attractive to you? Why would you want to hear that she looked through his phone and now he hopes she finds some evidence of other women so that she leaves. BARF. I must be very egotistical because when I'm dating a man he better not be thinking and talking about about another woman who he is/was involved with to me, good or bad. In the courtship phase our time together is supposed to be about us and about getting to know each other. If the guy just wants to whine about an ex then he needs a therapist, not a date. Ask yourself why you are participating in those conversations. Are you competing with his wife? Does hearing a man talk badly about another woman feed your ego and make you feel like you are better? Not only is your MM expecting you to happily listen to this crap, he's expecting you to accept the position of being his secret affair and accept all the pain and anxiety and uncertainty that goes along with that. Do you wonder why he doesn't think you deserve better than that? Ideally he would put his relationship with you totally on hold at least until he is moved out and divorce papers are filed. However if he must continue seeing you and talking to you then at the very least he should not be burdening you with the blow by blow details of his marriage, If he were any kind of a man with any respect for you then he would tell you that his marriage and divorce is his problem to sort out and that you don't need to hear the gritty details. If he needs to vent he should be going to a friend or counselor.

It's just unhealthy for a new romantic relationship to be built on the unhappiness of a failed marriage. It becomes something that you bond over but who wants something like that to be the tie that holds them together? What happens if he actually gets divorced and when he's no longer unhappily married? Is he still going to want you then? Or are you going to be a symbol of pain and unhappiness? a constant reminder of an unpleasant time in his life? That's why even newly separated and divorced men are often bad prospects for a long term relationship. Because they will latch onto the first person to come along and hold onto that person like a life raft. They will make that person feel like the most beloved important person who ever walked the earth but then they recover and get stronger and then they don't need their life raft anymore and would rather start over anew with someone who wasn't a part of their messy past life. 

Oh and as an aside I just wanted to mention that the title of your thread is not really true. LD affair looks like turning into a real relationship. I was expecting a story of a MM who has just gotten divorced and now he and his affair partner are embarking on an open and public relationship. A more accurate title would have been long term online friendship has turned into a long distance extramarital affair because that's all that has really happened here. 

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pepperbird2 Established Member

pepperbird2

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you said told you she threatened t kill him in his sleep way back on the first page.

Now I don't know about anyone else, but if I had a spouse who threatened that, I would be out the door so fast kids in tow. I wouldn't dither about, looking for reason to stay Even more importantly I woudl never leave my kids in that sort of environment.

she's so unstable she's threatening to kill him, yet he chooses to stay, and not only stay himself,  but keep their daughter there too? Sounds pretty darn selfish to me. He's willing to put his comfort first.

 

Really, really think about that and what it says about hm a  a perosn.

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ScientificThoughts Established Member

ScientificThoughts

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Just so everyone knows - I didn't make the title to this, a mod changed the title. 

Over the weekend he told me he really wants a relationship with me, to which I said we can't have one as long as he lives with his wife. He said okay and started looking for bachelor apartments because they are the most affordable. He's sent in applications to a few already. 

I know looking and actually doing are two very different things... So we will see what happens with this. We talked about the cheating, lying etc. I said I didn't want it to keep going on the way it has been. He agreed. He's been doing reno's all weekend as well. Trying to speed it up... 

Here I am still hoping for the best but I am not really holding my breath anymore. I want to be with him badly but I see what you all are saying. The cheating actually seems out of character for him, and for me too. I've been propositioned by married men many times and I have always turned them down. I told him this as well. It's not really who we are as people... As I have said before I've known him since we were teens. Previously when we spoke the fading out was usually due to us getting involved with someone else and having a relationship so it would fade out. Last time it was me who ended up going back to my ex so I let him go. It's been very up and down over the years. It's hard for me to see him as this horrible selfish cheating lying man. I get you see it here all the time though and I get he is technically cheating and lying. We are both well aware of what we are doing.

The foundation we've built is already there. It's been there for 20 years. We have a lot there prior to all of this. I'd like to think that's why it's so easy for us to fall back in love after not speaking for years. We definitely have connected on our failing relationships this time around but it isn't our foundation. 

Yes he reached out to me and I don't really know what he was looking for. He thought I was in a happy LTR so I don't think he reached out with ill intentions. Maybe he was just lonely... Hard to say... Maybe I am in denial... hard to say lol 

 

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ScientificThoughts Established Member

ScientificThoughts

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Also wanted to ask since you all keep saying this - If he was in this just for the sex, which he says he isn't... Why would he go with someone who is so far away? If all he really wanted was sex, why not go for someone that is closer to him that he can access whenever he wants? 

LDR are not easy. He is willing to put in the effort to make it work between us... So why? Why not go with someone/something easier? 

Edited by ScientificThoughts
LDR
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vla1120 Established Member

vla1120

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

The foundation we've built is already there. It's been there for 20 years. We have a lot there prior to all of this.

I work with someone who has the same story. She and a hs boyfriend kept in contact over the years. There was always that spark, but for one reason or another, the timing was never right. A few years ago, they happened to start working together in the same district. Both were married to other people, but once they started communicating again, they left their spouses and married each other. Unfortunately, his spouse at the time still worked with me. She was devastated when he left her for his hs girlfriend.

I have been to their house many times. They are like teenagers in love and seem very happy. It does happen. I hope it really does happens for you. Judge him by his actions, not just his words.

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elaine567 Established Member

elaine567

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ScientificThoughts said:

Also wanted to ask since you all keep saying this - If he was in this just for the sex, which he says he isn't... Why would he go with someone who is so far away? If all he really wanted was sex, why not go for someone that is closer to him that he can access whenever he wants? 

LTR are not easy. He is willing to put in the effort to make it work between us... So why? Why not go with someone/something easier? 

Maybe he already tried and was unsuccessful...

 

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vla1120 Established Member

vla1120

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, ScientificThoughts said:

Also wanted to ask since you all keep saying this - If he was in this just for the sex, which he says he isn't... Why would he go with someone who is so far away? If all he really wanted was sex, why not go for someone that is closer to him that he can access whenever he wants? 

LTR are not easy. He is willing to put in the effort to make it work between us... So why? Why not go with someone/something easier? 

Maybe we're a jaded group of people who have seen similar stories that do not end well. Like I said in my previous post, judge him by his actions. I hope he does right by you.

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ScientificThoughts Established Member

ScientificThoughts

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1 minute ago, vla1120 said:

Maybe we're a jaded group of people who have seen similar stories that do not end well. Like I said in my previous post, judge him by his actions. I hope he does right by you.

Thank you. I truly think his intentions are good... He just has a lot of things to deal with. 

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