Wiseman2 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 4 hours ago, ironpony said: why did the form I signed say I cannot go out to lunch with her. It seems they care somewhat if it says that in the form? What exactly was this form you signed?
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 The form was about how we cannot leave for lunch together, or we cannot talk the way we have been talking during the breaks. We haven't been saying anything inappropriate I don't think it's, just she talks me in this flirty, giddy tone a lot.
Wiseman2 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ironpony said: The form was about how cannot talk the way we have been talking during the breaks. So it's an agreement/ written warning to stop sexually harassing her? It's doesn't matter if you think it was right or wrong what matters is people complained about you and the employer is giving you written warning. It's sometimes a prelude to firing you, sometimes it's damage control because you acted inappropriately in their view. Too late to argue that "all you did was go to lunch" because employers don't have you sign legal forms for that. Watch your step. Re-read the form and start acting appropriately. Edited November 15, 2021 by Wiseman2
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 That's what it came off as but she didn't make any claims of sexual harrassment, nor did they say anything in the form that I did that would come off as harrassment, so I am not sure what it was really.
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: So it's an agreement/ written warning to stop sexually harassing her? It's doesn't matter if you think it was right or wrong what matters is people complained about you and the employer is giving you written warning. It's sometimes a prelude to firing you, sometimes it's damage control because you acted inappropriately in their view. Too late to argue that "all you did was go to lunch" because employers don't have you sign legal forms for that. Watch your step. Re-read the form and start acting appropriately. The form does not say one specific thing on it that I did that would constitute as harrassment though. The form doesn't even say the words "sexual" or "harrass" in it. So I do not understand how this form has any merit though, as oppose to just being a really fuzzy form with no real legal interpretation to it. The form said they didn't want to go to lunch together anymore, so apparently they did have me sign a legal form for that it seems, if that's what it says in the form? Edited November 15, 2021 by ironpony
Wiseman2 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 Take it to someone who can clarify things for you. Maybe your social worker or therapist or the neurologist treating the autism. Whatever it is, you seem combative about and you claim you don't understand so have someone go over it step by step.
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) Oh okay, I can do that, thanks. I don't mean to come across as combative, I just wish they would have actually told me what I did that would constatitute as sexual harrassment. I guess I don't like that really beat around the bush so to speak, and would just tell me the actual harassment I did. It's just the bushbeating that makes me uneasy, and I would rather them bring up details, if they had a problem. Edited November 15, 2021 by ironpony
Wiseman2 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 13 minutes ago, ironpony said: I would rather them bring up details, if they had a problem. They did. You signed it. If an employer has you sign papers about your behaviors at work, you're in trouble. It's that simple. If you want to argue about it, you can contact a labor lawyer and pay them to go over it with you.
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: They did. You signed it. If an employer has you sign papers about your behaviors at work, you're in trouble. It's that simple. If you want to argue about it, you can contact a labor lawyer and pay them to go over it with you. But there were no details of any sexual harrassment in the form. It just said that there were complaints, but nothing was said about what the complaints were. In order to have a sexual harrassment, case, don't they need to bring up something other than the word 'complaints' only? I thought that that one word is not much to go on. I just wish they would have given me specifics on sexual harassment specifically. So what do I do now? I will of course still do my job, but should I expect anything further from this? Edited November 15, 2021 by ironpony
ExpatInItaly Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 If you don't understand what you signed or what exactly their concerns are, you need to speak to HR immediately. Asking people here who don't know your company policy and have not seen the form you signed won't help. It would be better to get advice from someone who is informed on both, and can see the form and explain to you in person what it all means and what you need to watch out for now. 5
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) But it was the woman in HR who asked me to sign it though. Edited November 15, 2021 by ironpony
Wiseman2 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, ironpony said: . It just said that there were complaints, should I expect anything further from this? Read the form you signed. People are complaining about you at work. Re-read it and act accordingly. Being combative and argumentative won't help you. How much do labor attorneys charge per hour in your area? Research that since you want to be argumentative combative and disagree with whatever you signed. Edited November 15, 2021 by Wiseman2
ExpatInItaly Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ironpony said: But it was the woman in HR who asked me to sign it though. Well, yes, of course. Ask her the questions you have asked us here, in terms of the complaints someone has made. If it's still unclear to you, ask a labour lawyer. Contact one in your area and ask him or her to have a look and explain it in plain terms for you. You need to be careful here, OP, as you have already signed it and your conduct at work has apparently been raising red flags. Edited November 15, 2021 by ExpatInItaly
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 Just now, Wiseman2 said: Read the form you signed. People are complaining about you at work. Re-read it and behavior accordingly. Being combative and argumentative won't help you. How much do labor attorneys charge per hour in your area? Research that since you want to be argumentative combative and disagree with whatever you signed. Okay sure, I can do that. I just wish the complaints were actually stated, rather than just having the word 'complaints in. I also do not understand why they didn't have her sign anything either. I mean it's been two work days now, and they never asked her, compared to me. So I just find that odd.
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: Well, yes, of course. Ask her the questions you have asked us here, in terms of the complaints someone has made. If it's still unclear to you, ask a labour lawyer. Contact one in your area and ask him or her to have a look and explain it in plain terms for you. Well when asked them before, they said they complaints were that we left for lunch together, and that she talks to me in a flirtatious giddy tone. But I just thought that that was kind of non-specific to constituting to sexual harrassment. The form said that as well, and did not list anything else. Edited November 15, 2021 by ironpony
Wiseman2 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, ironpony said: . I also do not understand why they didn't have her sign anything either Because it's you they have a problem with. Talk to an attorney for$250/hr if you want to argue the point or think it's unfair.
ExpatInItaly Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 Just now, ironpony said: Well when asked them before, they said they complaints were that we left for lunch together, and that she talks to me in a flirtatious giddy tone. But I just thought that that was kind of non-specific to constituting to sexual harrassment. What you think is irreleavant in terms of what company policy (or the law) states. I get that you are struggling to understand what exactly the issue is, but you need to consult an expert in your jurisdiction on this. We don't know your company policy or code of conduct.
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Because it's you they have a problem with. Talk to an attorney for$250/hr if you want to argue the point or think it's unfair. Oh okay I see. Could you possibly guess as to why the problem is with me only and not her as well? Edited November 15, 2021 by ironpony
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: What you think is irreleavant in terms of what company policy (or the law) states. I get that you are struggling to understand what exactly the issue is, but you need to consult an expert in your jurisdiction on this. We don't know your company policy or code of conduct. Well according to the form, all it says is there were complaints made about how people observe how we are with each other, and how we left for lunch together. So I signed it saying I will not leave for lunch with her again, and that I will try to be mindful on how others observe us. I will only contact a lawyer if an issue comes up again, depending on what it is perhaps. Part of the code of conduct I guess is that I cannot leave with a co-worker to go to lunch. It did not say this in the code of conduct book they gave me when I started, but I won't do that from now on, Edited November 15, 2021 by ironpony
elaine567 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 41 minutes ago, ironpony said: just wish the complaints were actually stated, rather than just having the word 'complaints in. 30 minutes ago, ironpony said: Well according to the form, all it says is there were complaints made about how people observe how we are with each other, and how we left for lunch together. Which one is it? 1
basil67 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ironpony said: Well according to the form, all it says is there were complaints made about how people observe how we are with each other, and how we left for lunch together. Do you remember talking about how she was overly flirtatious and loving (for example mouthing "I love you") in the work place? And you thought it was inappropriate and most of us agreed with you? I suspect that the other staff members also felt that was inappropriate. I'm also not sure if you ever found out if workplace relationships are actively discouraged where you are. She may also have had to sign a form about changing her workplace behaviour. Of course, this is just guesswork and you'll have to speak to the HR person again. Ask questions until you have a clear understanding of what was inappropriate and how your actions need to change. Edited November 15, 2021 by basil67
Wiseman2 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 42 minutes ago, ironpony said: to why the problem is with me only and not her as well? You need to pay an attorney. Re-read the form you signed and follow the directions. You're the problem, not her.
elaine567 Posted November 15, 2021 Posted November 15, 2021 Trouble is you are almost twice her age, you could literally be her father. That degree of an age gap triggers the "ick" factor in many people and I am not surprised that some of your co-workers may not be comfortable with it, hence the complaints. BUT also why are you rewriting the company procedures and doing your own thing with their products? I am sure they don't like you bypassing the procedures they have set up to control their products and discourage stealing. The fact you are also apparently personally involved with the person who controls these products and are going off site with her too is maybe in their eyes suspicious. Your arrogance in overruling company procedures undermined your gfs job and may have got your gf into trouble too... However as it was your idea, you are the one being picked up on it. Are you still "seasonal" or do you now have a permanent job? I think you need to watch your step and do everything by the rules and go through proper channels if you feel you have an idea to improve productivity. If you are still seasonal, maybe you should start looking for another job asap. 1
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 5 hours ago, basil67 said: Do you remember talking about how she was overly flirtatious and loving (for example mouthing "I love you") in the work place? And you thought it was inappropriate and most of us agreed with you? I suspect that the other staff members also felt that was inappropriate. I'm also not sure if you ever found out if workplace relationships are actively discouraged where you are. She may also have had to sign a form about changing her workplace behaviour. Of course, this is just guesswork and you'll have to speak to the HR person again. Ask questions until you have a clear understanding of what was inappropriate and how your actions need to change. Yes I remember. I just don't understand why they are talking to me about that, when she was the one being flirtatious, and mouthing I love you for example. They even told me in the meeting they knew it was her and not me. So if they knew it was her, why are they talking to me and not her. That's the part I don't understand. But, like it was said, they may still talk to her, but it's being delayed for her for some reason.
Author ironpony Posted November 15, 2021 Author Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, elaine567 said: Trouble is you are almost twice her age, you could literally be her father. That degree of an age gap triggers the "ick" factor in many people and I am not surprised that some of your co-workers may not be comfortable with it, hence the complaints. BUT also why are you rewriting the company procedures and doing your own thing with their products? I am sure they don't like you bypassing the procedures they have set up to control their products and discourage stealing. The fact you are also apparently personally involved with the person who controls these products and are going off site with her too is maybe in their eyes suspicious. Your arrogance in overruling company procedures undermined your gfs job and may have got your gf into trouble too... However as it was your idea, you are the one being picked up on it. Are you still "seasonal" or do you now have a permanent job? I think you need to watch your step and do everything by the rules and go through proper channels if you feel you have an idea to improve productivity. If you are still seasonal, maybe you should start looking for another job asap. I didn't think I felt I went against a procedure, because the thing is, they didn't have a procedure on how to figure out what these products are. My gf said she could give the products I need and that it didn't interfere with her work at all and it was no problem. She told me this at work, so I took it as a supervisor saying, it's no problem, and it's fine. So I told my boss that there is no other way to get the products without going through her, because she is the gatekeeper of the products very much. The boss agreed and said I can now do it now, but of course I am going to tell my boss when I do, just to be safe. But also, I wasn't stealing any products, I was just finding out where they were, so I could scan them and copy information on them, which is my job. However, if I didn't ask someone who was an expert on where the products are, I would be looking for hours for them. I mean this place is huge. Do they really want me looking for a long time for these products all day, when there is an expert, you can just ask, and make things go a lot faster? I just thought it was logical to ask the expert, rather than spend most of the day searching the building for them, if that makes sense. Edited November 15, 2021 by ironpony
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