Never Had a Girlfriend, Ugly.

[SpoonySpoon]

26 minutes ago, Redpilled said:

Nonsense, you are doing exactly what an ugly person should do by going offline and entering a social setting where women outnumber men (your dancing), that's excellent strategy. In that type of environment it's not speed dating anymore, dating happens more subtly because people don't want to make it obvious they joined a hobby for that reason, even though many have. So they will innocently enquire about your life prior to giving you any indication they were interested. 

Besides, you ignored my question - what do you have to offer? Absolutely nothing, you're drowning in self pity because you want some immature teenage fling in your late 20s when the women around you are seeking something serious.  

Like I said, I never went in with the explicit intention of finding an activity filled with women, it really is just something I enjoy doing and am good at. Though as I've also said, it's very strange to me that single men get snapped up almost instantly on this scene, yet I've never gathered any interest. People don't ask what I do or where I live, they tend to focus their attention on the attractive people and ask them questions.

I figure I should learn to walk before I should run. Sure, by my age people are getting married and having kids, but I'm not those people, I'm not expecting to jump straight into a 10 year relationship when I've never been on a second date. Yes, most people have had these experiences much, much younger. And as I've said to you before, it's not like I walk around with a t-shirt advertising my relationship history. I'm not against getting serious, I'm just painfully aware that I don't know how.

25 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

So people have told you that you're ugly and you have shared this with a close friend or two and neither they nor you can identify the source of this ugliness? 

I hear you pushing back on everyone who says it must be something to do with how you present, or a lack of confidence, and I am willing to accept that it's not those things but then you also say that there is nothing wrong with your physical appearance.  So dude, what the heck do YOU think is going on?  Do you have terrible breath or body odor?  Poor hygiene? 

Is there no one in your life who will give you an honest assessment of the issue?  Because, honestly, to be the person you claim to be -- personable, reasonably smart, decent job, outgoing, fit -- and not be able to get a date because of your looks, you would have to be pretty much disfigured. And even then...

Nope, all of my friends I've asked about this stick to the cartoonishly supportive line of "there's nothing wrong with you!", and I get they're being nice, but it's maddeningly unhelpful. 

Again, I don't know what's going on, that's why I can't answer you. I genuinely feel normal, but after a lifetime of being rejected for being ugly, it's hard to feel 'normal'. I'm hygenic, I don't stink, people across the room aren't smelling what I had for lunch, none of that applies. I do get that you're trying here, but really it's not those things.

19 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

I believe you’ve had those experiences. My question is why does your ugliness prevent you from romance when other ugly people find love / sex / romance etc.? 

I've no idea, this is why I find myself arguing with strangers online, because I can't find a soul who believes the words I am saying. Boiling it down to people who know nothing about you, even so much as just looking at a photo, and saying "hell no!" pretty much reduces it down to one thing.

[introverted1]

5 minutes ago, SpoonySpoon said:

Nope, all of my friends I've asked about this stick to the cartoonishly supportive line of "there's nothing wrong with you!", and I get they're being nice, but it's maddeningly unhelpful.

Enlist a dating coach and share what you've said here. Asking a bunch of random people on the internet who can neither see you nor interact with you is unlikely to yield any useful results.  Or, rather, there could be useful responses here, but no way to know which ones those are.

ETA, do you have a close friend, preferably female, who you could ask to be brutally honest?

Edited October 4, 2021 by introverted1

[Redpilled]

22 minutes ago, SpoonySpoon said:

I figure I should learn to walk before I should run. Sure, by my age people are getting married and having kids, but I'm not those people, I'm not expecting to jump straight into a 10 year relationship when I've never been on a second date. Yes, most people have had these experiences much, much younger. And as I've said to you before, it's not like I walk around with a t-shirt advertising my relationship history. I'm not against getting serious, I'm just painfully aware that I don't know how.

59 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

You said earlier "I'm not looking for the love of my life just yet." which has now become "i'm not against getting serious"! Anyway, I'll ask you for a third time: what do you have to offer? Look there are only a few mating strategies humans have used in the last 300,000 years so you should be able to figure out what your value proposition is. Either:

1. Get rich,
2. Get plastic surgery
3. Offer a secure, dependable, romantic marriage opportunity
4. Or stay single

I really don't care which but stop hiding behind excuses. The world is full of absolute rancid looking guys with stunning wives because they did one of the above. 

[poppyfields]

Cannot believe I am posting this, but are you "uglier" than Lyle Lovett?  Who by the way married Julia Roberts and is currently married to the beautiful April Kimble.

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/musician-lyle-lovett-and-girlfriend-april-kimble-arrive-at-the-30th-picture-id78213205?s=594x594&w=125

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder mate, and "attraction to" another human being runs deeper that merely what's on the outside.

Edited October 4, 2021 by poppyfields

[Ami1uwant]

48 minutes ago, SpoonySpoon said:

Like I said, I never went in with the explicit intention of finding an activity filled with women, it really is just something I enjoy doing and am good at. Though as I've also said, it's very strange to me that single men get snapped up almost instantly on this scene, yet I've never gathered any interest. People don't ask what I do or where I live, they tend to focus their attention on the attractive people and ask them questions.

I figure I should learn to walk before I should run. Sure, by my age people are getting married and having kids, but I'm not those people, I'm not expecting to jump straight into a 10 year relationship when I've never been on a second date. Yes, most people have had these experiences much, much younger. And as I've said to you before, it's not like I walk around with a t-shirt advertising my relationship history. I'm not against getting serious, I'm just painfully aware that I don't know how.

Nope, all of my friends I've asked about this stick to the cartoonishly supportive line of "there's nothing wrong with you!", and I get they're being nice, but it's maddeningly unhelpful. 

Again, I don't know what's going on, that's why I can't answer you. I genuinely feel normal, but after a lifetime of being rejected for being ugly, it's hard to feel 'normal'. I'm hygenic, I don't stink, people across the room aren't smelling what I had for lunch, none of that applies. I do get that you're trying here, but really it's not those things.

I've no idea, this is why I find myself arguing with strangers online, because I can't find a soul who believes the words I am saying. Boiling it down to people who know nothing about you, even so much as just looking at a photo, and saying "hell no!" pretty much reduces it down to one thing.

 

I asked you before…

 

how do you interact with women? At dancing or through elsewhere?  You said you can talk to women…but how?

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, SpoonySpoon said:

 

I've no idea, this is why I find myself arguing with strangers online, because I can't find a soul who believes the words I am saying. Boiling it down to people who know nothing about you, even so much as just looking at a photo, and saying "hell no!" pretty much reduces it down to one thing.

I believe what you’re saying. I’ve said “hell no” to women before because of their pictures so clearly it can happen. 
 

Generally speaking we’re most attracted to people that are more attractive than ourselves, neutral towards people of equalish attractiveness, and “hell no” towards people that are less attractive than ourselves. I’d speculate the women saying “hell no” towards you based on your picture were either more attractive or possibly equally attractive (or ugly) as you. For example, let’s say you’re a “2” even an ugly woman that’s a “3” is still going to pass on you based on your picture alone. Another “2” might pass, but a “1” will likely be interested. However you wont be interested in her at all…

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Generally speaking we’re most attracted to people that are more attractive than ourselves, neutral towards people of equalish attractiveness, and “hell no” towards people that are less attractive than ourselves. I’d speculate the women saying “hell no” towards you based on your picture were either more attractive or possibly equally attractive (or ugly) as you. For example, let’s say you’re a “2” even an ugly woman that’s a “3” is still going to pass on you based on your picture alone. Another “2” might pass, but a “1” will likely be interested. However you wont be interested in her at all…

How are you defining "attracted to"?   Because to me, being "attracted to" runs much deeper than his mere physical appearance.

It's his overall "presence" which in some cases has very little to do with physical appearance.  Not that physical attraction is not important it is, absolutely! 

But it's totally subjective.   I have been "attracted to" men who were less conventionally attractive than myself, and men more conventionally attractive than myself have been attracted to me.  100% truth!

I keep saying this but apparently no one is buying, but it's his (or her) presence, energy, vibe, essence, how they carry themselves, articulate themselves, their voice, their mannerisms (among other non-superficials including their mutual chemistry) that defines being "attracted to."  

Lord I wish folks would get away from all these meaningless utterly superficial clichés society floats around, like "we’re most attracted to people that are more attractive than ourselves," or "we want what we can't have," and other such BS.

It's simply not true for people who desire and value a true genuine connection with another human being that reaches beyond the physical, which again is important but it's NOT the be-all.

Not for everyone.

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by poppyfields

[Weezy1973]

21 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

How are you defining "attracted to"?   Because to me, being "attracted to" runs much deeper than his mere physical appearance.

 

Of course, but he’s talking about women rejecting him based on his picture alone. If all you see is a picture, you have no idea about anything deeper. 

 

23 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I keep saying this but apparently no one is buying, but it's his (or her) presence, energy, vibe, essence, how they carry themselves, articulate themselves, their voice, their mannerisms (among other non-superficials including their mutual chemistry) that defines being "attracted to."  

 

All of the things you list are superficial. None of them have anything to do with things like core values. Which are deeper and meaningful. 

 

24 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Lord I wish folks would get away from all these meaningless utterly superficial clichés society floats around, like "we’re most attracted to people that are more attractive than ourselves," or "we want what we can't have," and other such BS.

 

They’re supported by evidence. Look up studies on aspirational dating and the matching phenomenon. Couples by an large match in terms of physical attractiveness. There are exceptions (you Lyle Lovett example being a good one), but by and large it’s true. 

[poppyfields]

17 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Of course, but he’s talking about women rejecting him based on his picture alone. If all you see is a picture, you have no idea about anything deeper. 

 

All of the things you list are superficial. None of them have anything to do with things like core values. Which are deeper and meaningful. 

 

They’re supported by evidence. Look up studies on aspirational dating and the matching phenomenon. Couples by an large match in terms of physical attractiveness. There are exceptions (you Lyle Lovett example being a good one), but by and large it’s true. 

I don't agree that core values defines attraction.  Sharing values is great, it's a bonus, but as far as feeling attraction, sexual tension, that feeling you get in your solar plexis from simply being in their presence has very little to do with core values imho. 

As you spend time and get to know each other, that is when you determine if your core values match, but it has nothing to do with initial attraction, energy and chemistry between two human beings.

I don't believe in "studies" or "surveys" and that is all I am going to say about that.

Re feeling attraction from a pic, I don't believe in the exchange of pictures anymore, they are utterly worthless.  Which is why I don't on line date.

@Redpilledexplained it perfectly (on either this thread or another) when saying that people often lie in their pics.  They're either old, heavily filtered or not even their pic!

And even if it were their true pic, their presence, energy and essence IN PERSON might be (and typically is) totally different from the image you created in your head from a pic.

To the OP, stop sending pics and start meeting women in real life, within a social environment where you see each other on a regular basis through a shared activity.  Let a woman feel your energy and vibe, and get to know you gradually.  It's a great way to develop connections imho.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by poppyfields

[Alpacalia]

4 hours ago, SpoonySpoon said:

Like I said, I'm one of the best in town in a wide community of dancing in which women outnumber men 2:1. I'm an alright cook, I can bake, I'm in the gym 4-5 times a week, did a fair bit of boxing back in the day. That said, basically none of these are obvious to the naked eye if you were to observe me on the street. Of course I put a combination of photos representing those things in my dating profiles, though it doesn't seem to help.

That's great.

All good stuff. 

If you could be able to stop seeing yourself as ugly, that would help. 

[Weezy1973]

10 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I don't agree that core values defines attraction.  Sharing values is great, it's a bonus, but as far as feeling attraction, sexual tension, that feeling you get in your solar plexis from simply being in their presence has very little to do with core values imho. 

Totally agree. Attraction for many is completely superficial. 

[poppyfields]

1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said:

Totally agree. Attraction for many is completely superficial. 

I think basing attraction on merely one's physical appearance is superficial, but for many others it goes deeper.   Like I explained earlier which I have no desire to repeat.

But since apparently you have never experienced what I am speaking of, it's pointless discussing it further, no disrespect.

To each his own.

 

[glows]

You’re focusing a lot on your outward appearance. It’s good to present yourself well, have a nice haircut, clean clothes, be someone others can approach but if you yourself are unapproachable, depressed, negative about yourself, it’s difficult for anyone to want to be around that. 

Don’t go down the route of plastic surgery. It’s one issue after another not addressing your mental health.

You mentioned suicide in your first post. It may even be tongue in cheek but why anyone would joke about that (if it’s a joke) is difficult to comprehend. People take that seriously and it may very well be a reason why potential dates skip over or avoid you. You seem unstable with those comments. Do seek help if you feel it’s needed.

[SpoonySpoon]

6 hours ago, Redpilled said:

You said earlier "I'm not looking for the love of my life just yet." which has now become "i'm not against getting serious"! Anyway, I'll ask you for a third time: what do you have to offer? Look there are only a few mating strategies humans have used in the last 300,000 years so you should be able to figure out what your value proposition is. Either:

1. Get rich,
2. Get plastic surgery
3. Offer a secure, dependable, romantic marriage opportunity
4. Or stay single

I really don't care which but stop hiding behind excuses. The world is full of absolute rancid looking guys with stunning wives because they did one of the above. 

Ask as many times as you like, if you literally ignore the answers that I give there's nothing else I can say.

I may offer a secure dependable marriage opportunity, but if nobody is willing to give me a chance there's not a lot I can do about that. If I'd had relationships since 16 like any normal person I probably would be looking for marriage material by now, that's just the way things have fallen. Yes, let's put the pressure on myself that the very first person who says yes to me must be the one I marry. That's just insane.

5 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

 

I asked you before…

 

how do you interact with women? At dancing or through elsewhere?  You said you can talk to women…but how?

What exactly do you want, a transcript of every conversation I've had?

I just treat women like human beings and talk to them normally. Through dancing, through meetup groups, at parties, through friends of friends, I've listed all the various ways.

5 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

I believe what you’re saying. I’ve said “hell no” to women before because of their pictures so clearly it can happen. 
 

Generally speaking we’re most attracted to people that are more attractive than ourselves, neutral towards people of equalish attractiveness, and “hell no” towards people that are less attractive than ourselves. I’d speculate the women saying “hell no” towards you based on your picture were either more attractive or possibly equally attractive (or ugly) as you. For example, let’s say you’re a “2” even an ugly woman that’s a “3” is still going to pass on you based on your picture alone. Another “2” might pass, but a “1” will likely be interested. However you wont be interested in her at all…

I can't really answer that one. To say that a person must have been at least one 'notch' above me and that's why said no is bizarrely finickity way to talk about. If we go with this board's assumption that there's nothing wrong with me physically and say I'm a 5, then there's no reason for half of the population to say yes, but they're not. So we go with my assumption that there's definitely something wrong with me, and it's closer to a 2 or 3, but then even then there must be some 2s and 3s knocking about that would see me as not bad, right?

3 hours ago, poppyfields said:

To the OP, stop sending pics and start meeting women in real life, within a social environment where you see each other on a regular basis through a shared activity.  Let a woman feel your energy and vibe, and get to know you gradually.  It's a great way to develop connections imho.

As I'm mentioning in seemingly every post now; that's exactly what I have been doing. Sure, Covid has made it difficult for a time, but still what I'm doing.

3 hours ago, Alpaca said:

That's great.

All good stuff. 

If you could be able to stop seeing yourself as ugly, that would help. 

Once again for the people in the back: I do not particularly see myself as ugly, it is other people that see me as such.

[basil67]

@SpoonySpoon I was one of the first posters in your thread and I wrote that I believe what you say about yourself and gave some suggestions on your appearance - from simple suggestions to dramatic solutions.  Yet, you haven't even acknowledged my post with a 'like', let alone taken the time to respond to me.

Are you here for help from those who believe that looks are your problem?  Or are you here to argue with those who don't?   Because while you ignore those who are offering to help and only engage with those you can argue with, you're getting no closer to solving your problem.

Edited October 5, 2021 by basil67

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, SpoonySpoon said:

Once again for the people in the back: I do not particularly see myself as ugly, it is other people that see me as such.

That's not what you said initially:

On 10/3/2021 at 11:37 AM, SpoonySpoon said:

I'm not attractive.

Nonetheless, you've insulted pretty much everyone that has offered their time to give you advice so I gather that looks aren't the problem. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Alpaca

[Redpilled]

4 hours ago, SpoonySpoon said:

Ask as many times as you like, if you literally ignore the answers that I give there's nothing else I can say.

I may offer a secure dependable marriage opportunity, but if nobody is willing to give me a chance there's not a lot I can do about that. If I'd had relationships since 16 like any normal person I probably would be looking for marriage material by now, that's just the way things have fallen. Yes, let's put the pressure on myself that the very first person who says yes to me must be the one I marry. That's just insane.

Final reply. You keep contradicting yourself or changing answers as the thread goes on. Bottom line is that your looks are not the only problem, I don't believe for one minute you approach women well, as you are drowning in self pity. Whilst you're not rich, you're not poor either and you do some good activities for meeting women. If you were letting people subtly know that you looking for love and honest, reliable and faithful then there are plenty of women looking for that, plus your stability as an engineer (use that word a lot in conversation) who will ignore your looks. The truth is that I don't think you are those things, probably because your lack of experience, but you need to get real about the fact that it'll turn women off.

Women just aren't as visually stimulated as men. Overall you've shown a very limited grasp of understanding women. if you understood what they wanted, offered it to them with a ribbon attached, they'd take it. Go watch 'undatables', people with treachers collins syndrome find love, so you're just making excuses.  

Edited October 5, 2021 by Redpilled

[Noproblem]

Ok. So what's wrong with staying single anyway? Why would you end your life over it?

 

[d0nnivain]

@SpoonySpoon

If your real life interactions are anything like your responses here, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder.  You have convinced yourself that you are ugly & un-datable.  Nothing anyone says, no suggestions we make, disavow you from that belief.  It's so toxic & poisonous that it's rotting you from the inside & making you ugly.  It's not about what you look like.  It's about who you are.  Everyone else is wrong & you are right.  

You don't want to believe us, that it's not solely about the way you look.  It's about the way you carry yourself.  You want it to be about superficial looks but it's about your attitude.  Change that.  Adopt a sunnier disposition & things will improve.  

Since you think you are ugly, any woman who shows interest, somehow you then become convinced that she's an idiot because why would she go out with an ugly guy like you.  Thus you insult her taste & intelligence so she moves along.  I doubt you even know you are doing it but it is the world view you are showing us in this thread.  

[ramen234]

17 hours ago, Alpaca said:

Here's a metaphorical slap.

Why not develop a "hook" so-to-speak based on interests and hobbies that women find appealing?

Like learning to be a good cook, learning to play the guitar, or excelling at a specific sport. 

Of course, pick things that you enjoy doing for yourself first and then build off that.

 

Why not just learn how to do monkey double back flips?

 

[Wiseman2]

32 minutes ago, ramen234 said:

Why not just learn how to do monkey double back flips?

Why not  just refrain from visiting hate group sites and regurgitating it?

Edited October 5, 2021 by Wiseman2

[SpoonySpoon]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

@SpoonySpoon I was one of the first posters in your thread and I wrote that I believe what you say about yourself and gave some suggestions on your appearance - from simple suggestions to dramatic solutions.  Yet, you haven't even acknowledged my post with a 'like', let alone taken the time to respond to me.

Are you here for help from those who believe that looks are your problem?  Or are you here to argue with those who don't?   Because while you ignore those who are offering to help and only engage with those you can argue with, you're getting no closer to solving your problem.

I'm sorry if you're offended, I genuinely have tried to reply to as many people as possible in this, I must have missed replying to yours.

I have since checked the article you mentioned, and I'm glad it's working for them, but after the first 20 pictures it's clear that the formula is "take person with very long unkempt hair, chop it off, put some product in it, give the beard a trim", and that's great, that's absolutely solid advice, just not applicable in this situation.

I have considered plastic surgery, though as I've said to others in this, I really can't think of a defining part (such as nose, ears etc) that I can attribute to holding me back. Ideally, I'd just hand over my credit card, gesture at my head and say "fix this", they'd put me under and I'd wake up as a hot person. Sadly that's not reality, but I'm not against the practice, I just can't narrow it down.

7 hours ago, Alpaca said:

That's not what you said initially:

Nonetheless, you've insulted pretty much everyone that has offered their time to give you advice so I gather that looks aren't the problem. 

I don't see how those two statements are contradictory.

I genuinely don't think I'm unattractive, but single women do. Again, it's like saying your house is worth a million dollars; it's only worth that if someone's willing to pay that, otherwise it isn't. I really don't mean to insult anyone here, but it is frustrating to really try to explain as carefully as possible that being ugly is an issue, and to come back to "Yeah, sounds like you're not believing hard enough" or "Must be because you smell or have bad breath". I get that people are trying, but if they won't believe the central premise to my post, we're not going to have a productive conversation.

4 hours ago, Redpilled said:

 Go watch 'undatables', people with treachers collins syndrome find love, so you're just making excuses.  

Funny story, I was actually approached to go on that show. Whilst visiting London in 2012, I had a casting agent literally cross the street in heavy traffic to approach me, and told me about this dating show I'd be perfect for. I took her card, but I knew I wouldn't be able to go back for the auditions. A few months later I checked the production company's name and turns out it was The Undateables.

So to sum up; a casting director for a show about people who're undateable, spotted me from a distance and approached me to audition for the show, presumably because... I wasn't believing hard enough, or something?

2 hours ago, Noproblem said:

Ok. So what's wrong with staying single anyway? Why would you end your life over it?

 

It's just the mundanity of life otherwise. I start the year alone, then it's my birthday alone, then it gets to Summer and everyone's having acrobatic holiday sex, then it's winter, then it's Christmas alone, it's just an endless circle at this point.

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

@SpoonySpoon

If your real life interactions are anything like your responses here, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder.  You have convinced yourself that you are ugly & un-datable.  Nothing anyone says, no suggestions we make, disavow you from that belief.  It's so toxic & poisonous that it's rotting you from the inside & making you ugly.  It's not about what you look like.  It's about who you are.  Everyone else is wrong & you are right.  

You don't want to believe us, that it's not solely about the way you look.  It's about the way you carry yourself.  You want it to be about superficial looks but it's about your attitude.  Change that.  Adopt a sunnier disposition & things will improve.  

Since you think you are ugly, any woman who shows interest, somehow you then become convinced that she's an idiot because why would she go out with an ugly guy like you.  Thus you insult her taste & intelligence so she moves along.  I doubt you even know you are doing it but it is the world view you are showing us in this thread.  

Wait, you think my real life interactions mirror these ones? Good lord no! This is not a normal interaction. I can hold a conversation just fine, no self loathing.

"Everyone else is wrong and you are right", well, I'm the one experiencing these things, and others are the ones hearing about it, so I'm going to assume I'm a little more informed of what's gone on. I've tried relaying these instances to my friends and they don't believe me, because they're attractive people they can't relate because they never went through anything like that. That's why I turned to the internet to maybe find someone who could. Again, I genuinely have a sunny disposition in life, or at least I did for a very long time, it literally made no difference to being happy or not, I was still unattractive to the opposite sex.

I mean, if it happened, sure, I'd have questions, but I'd certainly never call her an idiot about it. I'm just sensing a lot of assumptions on your part, then you're getting annoyed at the assumptions you've made.

[elaine567]

46 minutes ago, SpoonySpoon said:

I genuinely have tried to reply to as many people as possible in this, I must have missed replying to yours.

Not the only person you have ignored...

[ramen234]

Ok I am Asian male in Canada.  Asians males are suppose to be the bottom of the dating pool.  I'm not skinny like most Asian males and my looks are below average because I'm getting old.  But that never even stopped women flirting at me.  Do not use dating sites, it will kill your ego.  A woman can't love you if you don't love yourself first.  No amount of surgery is going to fix that.  On reddit I read all these Asian males claiming white women are racist and that's why they can't get a woman which is a lie.  Your beliefs are powerful and if you think you're ugly then no woman will be attracted to you.

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, poppyfields said:

I keep saying this but apparently no one is buying, but it's his (or her) presence, energy, vibe, essence, how they carry themselves, articulate themselves, their voice, their mannerisms (among other non-superficials including their mutual chemistry) that defines being "attracted to." 

No, I think there's a lot of truth to that.