Never Had a Girlfriend, Ugly.

[Lotsgoingon]

3 hours ago, SpoonySpoon said:

Again, I never really considered myself 'ugly', it just seems to be the going opinion. I always figured I was somewhere in the ballpark of normal, but if you're hitting 30 without anyone finding you attractive, it's getting more difficult to feel normal.

Ok, this is a major problem here--major. So you don't think you're ugly though you pretty much said that early on and told us not to try to talk you out of it. Now you're saying the ugliness isn't your view--"it just seems to be the going opinion." OK. You're dodging here. 

If you don't think you're ugly, then stop thinking that it must be "ugly" that is scaring people away. Seriously, this may seem unfair, because the reason you think others think you're ugly (see how messy and convoluted that is) is because you're not dating. But lots of people don't date a lot and don't walk around assuming it's because others think they're ugly. They may think they have personality quirks, and high standards or quirky standards or they might attribute lack of dating success to social awkwardness or an unusual way of viewing the world. You went straight to "ugly" and that's a problem.

This is an issue worthy of therapy. . Something is missing most likely in growing up in your family that you're stuck on the "ugly" thing. You mention despair and emptiness and hopelessness and suicidal ideation. Go deal with that. 

We are the ones who basically say to ourselves that we're OK looking. Get off this ugly thinking and you'll find more dates. Dating may or may not make you feel better about the way you look, but if you want to date, get rid of worry about being ugly. People can read that feeling in our body language a thousand miles away. They can smell that, because it's self-rejection, it's borderline self-loathing. Seriously, have you been to therapy about this? I would recommend a really smart woman therapist to work through this. And go to any mall or any amusement park or parade or major athletic event or concert and look around and you'll see plenty of not very attractive people who are partnered. Plenty. 

You should know that people's opinions of their looks do not automatically change just because they're dating or because someone they're dating likes the way you look. 

If you're in the swing of life and activities and all of that and you still doubt your looks, then seems to me you are not really connecting with people. People who join volleyball leagues and have a blast don't walk off the field thinking others consider them ugly because they're not dating other players. Something is missing from your analysis of your situation. You're placing all of the cause on attraction. Nope. Life ain't that simple. Thank God it ain't because a huge number of people in the world would be walking around without partners.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[Classicfiction]

Hey @SpoonySpoon, I have to say I would much rather date Jerry Seinfeld than Brad Pitt. I have a feeling you may be turning some women down.  

If not, then it could very well be your self esteem issue that's putting a damper on things.  Personally, I have been taking a break from dating to work on that because I'm pretty sure it's part of my problem too.  

People can sense when you feel unsure about yourself.  Focus on the things that you can change.  Read some motivational books.  That may sound hokey, but if you put some positive thoughts about yourself into your mind it will start to shine through.  

Also, like others have mentioned hair and wardrobe can make a big difference.  You don't have to make a dramatic change but some slight tweeks can certainly help.  Please don't get plastic surgery on your face.  You are enough no matter what your face looks like.  

[d0nnivain]

You have already been given the sensible responses but you don't want to hear them.  You want to have a pity party -- "oh woe is me, I'm so ugly."  Clearly you can't be that bad if you have had ONS.  

Try hiring a professional stylist.  Get somebody to take you to get a stylish haircut, pick out new clothes & address your daily hygiene routine if that is an issue.  Then learn to make yourself interesting & work on your own self confidence.  If you are walking around with this black cloud over your head constantly thinking I'm so ugly I will never get a GF, you will be right.  It will become a self fulfilling prophecy.  Instead figure out what makes you unique & happy. Then celebrate those qualities in yourself.  Nobody is going to love you until you figure out how to like yourself.  

[elaine567]

10 hours ago, Alvi said:

Sure, the OP meets women though the meet ups, but what is he really like in those outings? Is he friendly, funny and upbeat or is he cold and aloof?  How he acts around people and women in general? How exactly he interacts with the women when he meets them, what is he saying to them? Maybe he says something that turns them off, who knows. Maybe he talks too much, maybe he doesn't talk at all.  How he presents himself, that is the question What are his facial expressions are like when he talks? Like on this forum, a guy asked a woman out but later called her a loser in a joke-type of way. Can you blame a woman for no longer wanting to go out with him after that, lol. Maybe, this is the case with the OP, who knows.

^^^ this.

Also apart from social skill issues which are common in long term dating failure, there is also  general desirability and sexiness.
If you give off the friend vibe and not the boyfriend vibe, then women may not see you as bf material.
Looks can be important but if even good looking people can be passed by if they are not sexy and turn no-one on.
Being friend material and being lover material may have over laps. but lovers have a chemistry between them that friends just don't have.
Are you sexy enough? or are you inappropriately too sexual in your approach maybe?

It is good to have interests and hobbies that include young women, but sometimes women just want to participate in hobbies without having to fend off "would-be" suitors...

Also OLD can be challenging for average people, as everyone seems to want to date "up". and average Joes just do not cut it for women hoping.to catch a much bigger and better looking fish... The trick is to look for women who are more realistic and less materialistic.  

[Weezy1973]

11 hours ago, SpoonySpoon said:

 

1) Sure, I'm fairly open minded.

2) Agreed, I've always worked fairly practical jobs within construction, as of Covid I've begun to re-train on the path to becoming an engineer. I'm a few years away from completing it, but it's not like I'm flipping burgers.

3) Not looking to settle down, never said I was.

1) That’s good. You will run into the problem though that because you’re ugly with a good body, if you’re looking for your equal (ugly with a good body) you may not have much luck. Women with good bodies tend to have quite a few options regardless of their facial beauty. 
 

2) A good career gives you more options. Women, on average, are hypergamous. That is they’re attracted to men that have equal or higher earnings / career / education. Improving in these areas will give you more options. 
 

3) When I say “settle down” I don’t mean get married. I just mean you’re looking for a girlfriend (hence the title of the thread) and not just casual dating / sex.

[mark clemson]

While looks are certainly important and do tend to make things a lot easier, they are not the be-all, end-all. For both genders and particularly women.

There may be other issues in play for you, but WRT to being attractive, I would suggest:

- Do you what can to improve your face particularly - nice haircut, grooming, etc.

- Confidence and certain other psychological markers are a "main driver" of attractiveness for many women. Work on coming across as confident - in fact you may want to "act" super-duper confident. Take it as far as you can without acting/appearing like a D-bag or idiot (which can be a fine line). This may be "inauthentic" to a certain extent, but it may also generate some initial interest, which can then lead to a relationship.

- Some women can be attracted (and in some cases VERY attracted) to male "body language" such as posture, gait, and mannerisms. I believe this is their equivalent of male interest in e.g. the sway of her hips, etc. If you can "show" your confidence in your body language, this may also go a long way towards generating interest. Standing erect with your chest out (no slumped shoulders), lots of energy "spring in your step" OR slow, steady "power" in your walk. These are actually fairly subtle things, but some women definitely respond to them. Some men who have figured this out seem to go around all the time with exaggerated body language; I wouldn't suggest that - be a bit more subtle about it, but still do it in situations where there is potential for female interest.

Beyond all this initial attraction stuff, you have to be in a place to maintain a relationship once it is established. But getting there in the first place is of course the initial step.

Edited October 4, 2021 by mark clemson

[smackie9]

I've dated ugly/unattractive and I'm an attractive woman. I too would pick Jerry Seinfeld over Brad Pitt any day. The bonus part is Jerry is a car guy... What makes a person ugly is their own ugly attitude and insecurities.

[poppyfields]

13 hours ago, Noproblem said:

He can't just wake up and be confident with great energy, can he?

Is it a button?

Oh I am going to be amazing today and have a fantastic personality and people will love me for it.

Lol, I don't have time to fully get into now, but yes he can!    Absolutely!

Even if you don't believe you are great, utilize the "as if" approach - begin telling yourself you're great, start behaving with women "as if"  you're great, with that swagger and confidence, and when you see the results, you will begin believing it yourself and manifest great things in your life including women.

If you walk around believing you LACK, that energy is what you will project to the outside (including women), and they will be repelled. 

It's a mindset, an attitude more than anything else.

Seen it myself with less conventionally good looking men AND women. 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by poppyfields

[Weezy1973]

28 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Even if you don't believe you are great, utilize the "as if" approach - begin telling yourself you're great, start behaving with women "as if"  you're great, with that swagger and confidence, and when you see the results, you will begin believing it yourself and manifest great things in your life including women.

AKA “Fake it until you make it.”

Hard to do, but if you can pull it off it will work like a charm.

[poppyfields]

Just now, Weezy1973 said:

AKA “Fake it until you make it.”

Hard to do, but if you can pull it off it will work like a charm.

Yeah a bit hungover today, lol so don't think I articulated that quite right, but that's it, fake it until you make it.

Tons of reading material about it or perhaps someone can chime in and elaborate further but it's a valid philosophy.

 

 

[HotRevolver93]

I’m ugly as well but I think having no “game” is a big factor in this. I’ve seen guys who are comparable to me who have a “swag” for lack of better word that draws women in. I’m just clueless, I gave up like 2 years ago 

[HotRevolver93]

3 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

You have already been given the sensible responses but you don't want to hear them.  You want to have a pity party -- "oh woe is me, I'm so ugly."  Clearly you can't be that bad if you have had ONS.  

Try hiring a professional stylist.  Get somebody to take you to get a stylish haircut, pick out new clothes & address your daily hygiene routine if that is an issue.  Then learn to make yourself interesting & work on your own self confidence.  If you are walking around with this black cloud over your head constantly thinking I'm so ugly I will never get a GF, you will be right.  It will become a self fulfilling prophecy.  Instead figure out what makes you unique & happy. Then celebrate those qualities in yourself.  Nobody is going to love you until you figure out how to like yourself.  

There are people with depression and suicidal thoughts who are in relationships and married, so I fundamentally disagree with the “you have to like/love yourself first” concept 

[poppyfields]

41 minutes ago, HotRevolver93 said:

There are people with depression and suicidal thoughts who are in relationships and married, so I fundamentally disagree with the “you have to like/love yourself first” concept 

Hurt people attract hurt people.

Broken people attract broken people. 

So yeah no doubt depressed or otherwise broken people will attract others, have relationships, get married, but what are the quality of those people and relationships?

I can almost guarantee they are not healthy, functional relationships.  Because healthy functional people are not drawn/attracted to "broken."

When you love yourself first, feel whole and complete first, you will attract others who also love themselves and feel whole and complete.

Those are the best relationships, free of neediness and co-dependency.

Simply love, pure love.

Strive for that!

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by poppyfields

[SpoonySpoon]

3 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Perception is reality.  Whatever somebody thinks is there reality.  You seem to have convinced yourself that because you haven't had a BF & some people have said you are ugly you must be ugly.   While those other people may not have found you attractive that doesn't mean you are unattractive.  It just means you aren't attractive to them.  For example millions of people think the actor Brad Pitt is the one of the most attractive men in the world.  I always found him ugly to plain on a good day.  My opinion of him is not his reality. 

Right, and while your opinion is totally valid, he's called "The Sexiest Man", because when thousands of people are polled, they choose him over, say, Jim Carrey. He is, by data, "The World's Sexiest Man", and while that doesn't invalidate your opinion, it gives a clear indication that he is considered attractive.

So then we go to me, someone who is overwhelmingly called and treated as unattractive, and sure that doesn't mean 100% of the population, but damn near everyone so far. So while someone who is found to be attractive by "the majority" is allowed to be called attractive, someone who is found unattractive is NOT allowed to be called unattractive, and must be repackaged as "Not Believing Hard Enough" 

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

1) That’s good. You will run into the problem though that because you’re ugly with a good body, if you’re looking for your equal (ugly with a good body) you may not have much luck. Women with good bodies tend to have quite a few options regardless of their facial beauty. 
 

2) A good career gives you more options. Women, on average, are hypergamous. That is they’re attracted to men that have equal or higher earnings / career / education. Improving in these areas will give you more options. 
 

3) When I say “settle down” I don’t mean get married. I just mean you’re looking for a girlfriend (hence the title of the thread) and not just casual dating / sex.

1) Again, thanks for telling me that hot people have a lot of options, I'm really not shooting for the stars here, just someone vaguely attracted to me at this point.

2) Yup, also aware of that one. Though to be honest it never gets as far as asking what I do, they've said no on quite literally "Face Value"; I could be a doctor with a 4 bedroom house and an 11 inch dong, and I wouldn't get so far as telling them that because they've already said no.

3) Nope, again that's your assumption. Casual dating would be just fine, hopefully leading towards a girlfriend of course, but I'm not putting pressure on myself or anyone to settle down on my first attempt.

[Els]

To be blatantly honest, if you can get multiple one night stands as a heterosexual male, it's not your appearance that is making women not want to date you.

[Alpacalia]

Here's a metaphorical slap.

Why not develop a "hook" so-to-speak based on interests and hobbies that women find appealing?

Like learning to be a good cook, learning to play the guitar, or excelling at a specific sport. 

Of course, pick things that you enjoy doing for yourself first and then build off that.

[Weezy1973]

57 minutes ago, SpoonySpoon said:

 

1) Again, thanks for telling me that hot people have a lot of options, I'm really not shooting for the stars here, just someone vaguely attracted to me at this point.

Let’s be clear. Being ugly has nothing to do with your struggles. Ugly people date, have sex, get married, have relationships all the time. Go to Walmart and look around. Lots of ugly couples. And considering you’re not shooting out of your league, we can put to rest that being ugly is the issue.

 

So given that, what do you think the problem is?

[mark clemson]

Yeah on guitar or similar. Talent is apparently (somewhat surprisingly) apparently another one of the cues that women may respond to. You know those juggler guys who hang out at youth hostels? I knew one, and while many women won't touch them, but there are some who will go for that (if the rest of the package isn't too bad). So juggling sometimes gets juggler guy some female interest. Strange but true.

You might benefit from reading "A Billion Wicked Thoughts" which is a big data study of human sexuality. It's a long read, but maybe focus on the few chapters on what makes men attractive to women. This can be really beneficial IMO if you want to understand some of the things that "make women tick" WRT attraction and then apply them.

[Redpilled]

15 hours ago, SpoonySpoon said:

3) Not looking to settle down, never said I was.

18 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Right well having read the OP and your responses, I can tell you that your looks are not the only problem. You simply don't have an offering that any high quality women will want and not many women want in general. You're not good looking, you're not well off, and you're not offering a serious relationship! Seriously, why should a woman want to date you!? You want a relationship like a 17 year old but you're not 17, you're 27!!! Most people get married around that age, they aren't looking for a teenage relationships! Put yourself in their shoes - why should they date you - so they can bum around and waste a few years until they pass 30 and their dating prospects get even worse!!! 

[introverted1]

Ok, OP.  Let's go with your premise, which is that your personality, style, and physique are fine, but your face is ugly.  What exactly is ugly?  Are your ears huge?  Are your teeth crooked and/or yellow and/or missing?  Do you have a receding chin? Are you plagued with terrible skin?  You say you are so ugly people can spot it from across the room, so surely you know which feature is the problem.

[Redpilled]

1 hour ago, Elswyth said:

To be blatantly honest, if you can get multiple one night stands as a heterosexual male, it's not your appearance that is making women not want to date you.

Tru dat

[SpoonySpoon]

1 hour ago, Elswyth said:

To be blatantly honest, if you can get multiple one night stands as a heterosexual male, it's not your appearance that is making women not want to date you.

The sad truth that no sober woman has thought me passable, the only ones to think otherwise were drunk, and upon sobering up were never heard from again, it's not of great comfort.

1 hour ago, Alpaca said:

Here's a metaphorical slap.

Why not develop a "hook" so-to-speak based on interests and hobbies that women find appealing?

Like learning to be a good cook, learning to play the guitar, or excelling at a specific sport. 

Of course, pick things that you enjoy doing for yourself first and then build off that.

Like I said, I'm one of the best in town in a wide community of dancing in which women outnumber men 2:1. I'm an alright cook, I can bake, I'm in the gym 4-5 times a week, did a fair bit of boxing back in the day. That said, basically none of these are obvious to the naked eye if you were to observe me on the street. Of course I put a combination of photos representing those things in my dating profiles, though it doesn't seem to help.

Just because I'm not the kind of long-haired guy who's always breaking out his acoustic guitar at parties and forcing everyone to endure my rendition of 'Wonderwall' doesn't mean I don't have hobbies 

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Let’s be clear. Being ugly has nothing to do with your struggles. Ugly people date, have sex, get married, have relationships all the time. Go to Walmart and look around. Lots of ugly couples. And considering you’re not shooting out of your league, we can put to rest that being ugly is the issue.

 

So given that, what do you think the problem is?

I can only tell you what I know and what I experience.

I can tell you of the many, many times I've been rejected for being ugly, with exacting clarity, but you'll likely deflect to "must be something you said" or "must be your bad vibes". Sure, there are crackheads and boil-covered dwarves getting laid more often than me, which isn't reassuring.

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Yeah on guitar or similar. Talent is apparently (somewhat surprisingly) apparently another one of the cues that women may respond to. You know those juggler guys who hang out at youth hostels? I knew one, and while many women won't touch them, but there are some who will go for that (if the rest of the package isn't too bad). So juggling sometimes gets juggler guy some female interest. Strange but true.

You might benefit from reading "A Billion Wicked Thoughts" which is a big data study of human sexuality. It's a long read, but maybe focus on the few chapters on what makes men attractive to women. This can be really beneficial IMO if you want to understand some of the things that "make women tick" WRT attraction and then apply them.

Hey, don't get me wrong, if I could go back in time and tell my 15 year old self one thing it would definitely be "learn to play guitar". At 14 Ed Sheeran was a ginger kid in a band, 10 years later he's banging Taylor Swift, dude's an astronaut.

1 hour ago, Redpilled said:

Right well having read the OP and your responses, I can tell you that your looks are not the only problem. You simply don't have an offering that any high quality women will want and not many women want in general. You're not good looking, you're not well off, and you're not offering a serious relationship! Seriously, why should a woman want to date you!? You want a relationship like a 17 year old but you're not 17, you're 27!!! Most people get married around that age, they aren't looking for a teenage relationships! Put yourself in their shoes - why should they date you - so they can bum around and waste a few years until they pass 30 and their dating prospects get even worse!!! 

Again, for the, well I've lost count of the times I've said, I'm not restricting myself to "high quality" women; a phrase that makes me feel like I'm at some sort of auction.

But really, most of those facts you've stated are not visible to the eye, except one. My not wanting to settle down, they'd have to ask. Do I drive, what house I live in, my job, none of those things are on display in a bar or social scenario. They're not rejecting my occupation, my politics, my religion, my class; they are, with exacting clarity, rejecting me based on looks.

5 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Ok, OP.  Let's go with your premise, which is that your personality, style, and physique are fine, but your face is ugly.  What exactly is ugly?  Are your ears huge?  Are your teeth crooked and/or yellow and/or missing?  Do you have a receding chin? Are you plagued with terrible skin?  You say you are so ugly people can spot it from across the room, so surely you know which feature is the problem.

I honestly can't answer that one. Ears are fine, not abnormal anyway. Maybe not a "Hollywood Smile" but nothing missing or miscoloured. No acne or spots, even as a teen had very few spots. I mean as a kid I wore glasses, and I always figured switching to contact lenses would be a big boost for me, it's been 10 years now and still hasn't really kicked in.

[Redpilled]

2 minutes ago, SpoonySpoon said:

But really, most of those facts you've stated are not visible to the eye, except one. My not wanting to settle down, they'd have to ask. Do I drive, what house I live in, my job, none of those things are on display in a bar or social scenario. They're not rejecting my occupation, my politics, my religion, my class; they are, with exacting clarity, rejecting me based on looks.

28 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Nonsense, you are doing exactly what an ugly person should do by going offline and entering a social setting where women outnumber men (your dancing), that's excellent strategy. In that type of environment it's not speed dating anymore, dating happens more subtly because people don't want to make it obvious they joined a hobby for that reason, even though many have. So they will innocently enquire about your life prior to giving you any indication they were interested. 

Besides, you ignored my question - what do you have to offer? Absolutely nothing, you're drowning in self pity because you want some immature teenage fling in your late 20s when the women around you are seeking something serious.  

[introverted1]

8 minutes ago, SpoonySpoon said:

I honestly can't answer that one. Ears are fine, not abnormal anyway. Maybe not a "Hollywood Smile" but nothing missing or miscoloured. No acne or spots, even as a teen had very few spots. I mean as a kid I wore glasses, and I always figured switching to contact lenses would be a big boost for me, it's been 10 years now and still hasn't really kicked in.

So people have told you that you're ugly and you have shared this with a close friend or two and neither they nor you can identify the source of this ugliness? 

I hear you pushing back on everyone who says it must be something to do with how you present, or a lack of confidence, and I am willing to accept that it's not those things but then you also say that there is nothing wrong with your physical appearance.  So dude, what the heck do YOU think is going on?  Do you have terrible breath or body odor?  Poor hygiene? 

Is there no one in your life who will give you an honest assessment of the issue?  Because, honestly, to be the person you claim to be -- personable, reasonably smart, decent job, outgoing, fit -- and not be able to get a date because of your looks, you would have to be pretty much disfigured. And even then...

Edited October 4, 2021 by introverted1

[Weezy1973]

11 minutes ago, SpoonySpoon said:

I can only tell you what I know and what I experience.I can tell you of the many, many times I've been rejected for being ugly, with exacting clarity, but you'll likely deflect to "must be something you said" or "must be your bad vibes".

I believe you’ve had those experiences. My question is why does your ugliness prevent you from romance when other ugly people find love / sex / romance etc.?