Lil Honey Posted October 20, 2005 Posted October 20, 2005 Well, then we don't see eye-to-eye and that's okay. "My sequence" isn't "mine" at all. I never said that it was the right concept. I simply said that if a woman has to feel emotionally wanted in order to get in the mood and a man can feel emotionally wanted while having sex, it only makes sense to me to get the woman feeling emotionally wanted so that she IS in the mood, which will then make her more likely to want sex, at which point the man can feel emotionally wanted when they do have sex. I'm simply saying that it's like putting the cart before the horse. I never said one is more important. I DID say that when I was married, I rarely FELT important - in or out of the bed. You ask, "Doesn't anyone WANT to enjoy sex anymore?" In my situation, I wanted to enjoy sex but the less important I felt, the less I DID enjoy it and then the less I wanted it. It actually had little to do with pleasing me IN BED and more to do with our interactions (or lack of) the rest of the time. I am a big believer in foreplay being all the time (how the couple treats each other through their days), not just 10 minutes before sex.
Scott S Posted October 20, 2005 Posted October 20, 2005 So my question to you is: why is your sequence preferential to his? I don't want to seem accusatory. But we really consider our emotional needs more important than a man's physical needs. If a man wants to have sex without talking he is disrespecting us. But aren't we disrespecting what he wants too? Face it. It is a double standard. I must say, your writings indicate that you have a remarkable perception about men's point of view. I hope your husband recognizes what a special person he's married to!
RecordProducer Posted October 20, 2005 Posted October 20, 2005 Men show their affection/intimacy/love through sex. Sorry, I disagree. My BF is very sexual, but he shows his love for me mostly through other aspects; he spends time playing with my kids, buys them presents, he talks to me for hours on the phone or in IM every day, he asks me to sing for him very often, he listens to the songs I made and knows most of the melodies by heart, he asked me to write a song for him (twice! ), he tells me compliments about my whole personality, helps me in whatever I need, etc. About emotional needs: I think it's actually the woman who stops desiring the man, because she doesn't find him sexually attractive and is not in love with him anymore. I think the quasi-emotional needs are just a disarming excuse that new-age feminists made up. Jade, this is not against you, hun. I am just hoping to help you by presenting my honest opinion from my own perspective. Now the reason why you don't find him sexually attractive anymore has a lot to do with how he has pleased any of your needs in the past years. Perhaps he was a boring husband or too insecure or you fought a lot or you have nothing in common or whatever... But these things can't be re-built just like that. I think you need to start everything all over again (the romance and fun). You don't think it's possible? See? But if you DO think it's possible then you could engage in some activity that you will both be passionate about, start "dating" again, re-fresh your life, meet new people, etc... just change your life so you can find some new sparkle that will light the fire between you too. You need to see your husband at his best (just like at the beginning) and he needs to see you as the upbeat, carefree, and sexy girl that you were when he met you. Just my 2 cents..
RecordProducer Posted October 20, 2005 Posted October 20, 2005 I must say, your writings indicate that you have a remarkable perception about men's point of view. I hope your husband recognizes what a special person he's married to! Scott... you only suport the theory that a woman should respect a man's physical need without him respecting her emotional needs, because it suits you... cuz you're a man! What you're conspiring is non-consentual sex on the woman's part. Claiming that a woman should respect the man's physical need without desiring him is the same as if a slave said to his master: "I respect your need to exploit my work force for free so I will be so generous and please you!"
loony Posted October 20, 2005 Posted October 20, 2005 I never quite figured out why the sexual urge of men and women differ so much. And I never have figured out the whole Venus and Mars thing. I have never figured out why men think with their head and women with their heart. For example, one evening last week, my girlfriend and I were getting into bed. Well, the passion starts to heat up, and she eventually says: "I don't feel like it, I just want you to hold me." I said "WHAT????!!! What was that?!" She responded to my puzzled look by saying, "Can't you just love me for who I am and not what I do for you in the bedroom?" What every boyfriend/husband on the planet dreads to hear..."You're just not in touch with my emotional needs as a woman enough for me to satisfy your physical needs as a man." Realizing that nothing was going to happen that night I went to sleep. The very next day I opted to take the day off of work to spend time with her. We went out to a nice lunch and then went shopping at a big, department store. I walked around with her while she tried on several different very expensive outfits. She couldn't decide which one to take so I told her we'll just buy them all. She wanted new shoes to compliment her new clothes, so I said lets get a pair for each outfit. We went on to the jewelry department where she picked out a pair of diamond earrings. Let me tell you...she was so excited. She must have thought I was one wave short of a shipwreck. I started to think she was testing me because she asked for a tennis bracelet when she doesn't even know how to play tennis. I think I threw her for a loop when I said, "That's fine, honey." Smiling with excited anticipation she finally said, "I think this is all dear, Let's go to the cashier". I could hardly contain myself when I blurted out, "No honey, I don't feel like it." Her face j ust went completely blank as her jaw dropped with a baffled "WHAT???!!!" I then said, "Really honey! I just want you to HOLD this stuff for awhile.. You're just not in touch with my financial needs as a man enough for me to satisfy your shopping needs as a woman." And just when she had this look like she was going to kill me I added, "Why can't you just love me for who I am and not for the things I buy you?" That story has been floating in cyberspace for a while.
Author JadeStar Posted October 20, 2005 Author Posted October 20, 2005 WOW! Last time I was on here was yesterday and I haven't been on at all today until now. Didn't realize I had so many responses and btw I appreiate them all. Guess this is a topic that is different for different people depending on the situation. RP you said since I don't find him sexually attractive anymore. I never said that. I never said I don't desire him sure my sex drive might be lower, ad no it wasn't always like that, but dwindled down when I felt him stop doing things for me emotional wise. Some of you may ask if I slacked off the sex first? Nope I stopped having sex with him so much after I saw him stop with being here for me emotional. Some of you say well its not about what one does for the other, yes it is. Maybe not for your situation but for mine and the way I was raised you both do your parts in the relationship. Someone said they thought I didn't want to hear what was said here, thats not so, I appreciate all opinons. I'm just trying to get people to see where I'm coming from and I see some of you do and some don't thats fine. I have also stated that there was a time where I took a step back and stopped saying anything to him about how I felt and said you know what? the hell with it, I'll give him sex all the time, and I did. I did thinking maybe it would say to him, ok well shes meeting my needs the way I want so let me do for her. Did he? Nope, like I said somehwere along the way things changed because it wasn't always like this. We have talked been to counseling etc, and have asked him what am I ddoing wrong? What is it I need to do to change? He doesn't seem to have an answer. However one time he did say, its not you, ite me. However he never said what that was, and yes I have asked. I have learned over 13 years what I can/should say/do when, where and how etc. I get nowhere. I'm the one that does the cleaning, taking kids to school, plus their outside activities,shopping, laundry etc etc just as others do. I'm a stay at home mom. I also am the one who gets the kids ready for their baths, dinner, helps with school work blah blah blah, you name it. All I ever I wanted was for him to show a little interest as far as helping some. He knows this, its not like he doesn't. A persons body and mind can get worn after a period of time from doing things with no help or apprciation. All he thinks he is supossed to do is work come home and get sex whenever he likes it. I'm sorry if some of you feel that he is intiltled to that, without meeting any of my needs. Thats like he gets what he wants and I'm left with what? Just last week, at my yearly doc visit, she asked me out of the blue (well it was an intern) do you have help at home? I asked her why? She said just wondering, because you llok tired and stressed. I guess after years of feeling like I do it starts to take a toll on the body. Jade
Topper Posted October 20, 2005 Posted October 20, 2005 You need to think about are you meeeting his emotional needs? Or do you treat him like a paycheck and a handyman? As long as he does something for you your happy. When is the last time you did something special for him? I'm not talking a sex act but something just for him? Men for the most part want to make thier mates happy. it feels good to us. Yet many woman once in a long term relationship tend to forget about the guy they married.They get the House they get the kids and he is puched aside. No love no comfort. OK now you will say i cook the meals I take are of his kids and clean the house. So what? Thats not for him you do that for yourself. Woman in thier own way can be pretty selfish. Thier attention is on the kids the house and the rest.His home his wife, rather then being a refuge from the world out there is now a trap. You become one more thing that won't give him any peace of mind.
933KJL Posted October 20, 2005 Posted October 20, 2005 That story has been floating in cyberspace for a while. Never said I wrote it!
loony Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 Never said I wrote it! Yes, but posting it without citing any sources would make it look like it was your story.
Mz. Pixie Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 Topper- your situation is vastly different from Jade's here. I understood from your other posts you felt like you were just a paycheck to your wife. That's not what is happening here. For God's sake if she just thought her husband was a paycheck why would she do everything else??? This woman does everything else, he doesn't even help with the kid's baths. Sounds to me more like part of the time he's treating her like a housekeeper, nanny, bookeeper etc. Then- on top of all that, when she's physically exhausted from keeping all the balls in the air, he has the nerve to ask her for sex. When you're exhausted and you're busting your ass and your partner is sitting on his watching TV, well forgive us if the first thing we think of is sleep rather than sex. Also, how is what she's doing at the house just for HER?? Doesn't he live there as well?? What if he didn't have clean clothes and stuff? Would he go to work naked?? Her doing these things, he doesn't have to do them so it's an ACT OF SERVICE. That's one of the five love languages.
Mz. Pixie Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 Sorry to sound catty but I don't think Topper read the whole thread. Jade has been to counseling, everything that she can possibly do to save this marriage. I get pretty riled up when people project their situations on to someone else.
lilmoma1973 Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 [/ This is something that i found and i want all of you to see this because it backs of what Jade and I are trying to say what we want out of our relationship click and you will understand!!! http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2005/003/13.24.html
slubberdegullion Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 Because men and women are different (long live their differences!), we often come at sexual intimacy in different ways. The husband's emphasis is often on the physical aspects—the seeing, touching, and climax are the focus of his attention. Exactly. Thanks for the link.
lilmoma1973 Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 Oh Slubber!!! You get what im saying!!!!!
lilmoma1973 Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 Yeah I think most stay at home moms do everything because the H's feel that is our job and soon as hubby's get home they have worked their job and they are clocked out... We never clock out we are on the clock 24/7 how is this far and then they think we should be some sex machine we are exhausted to think about sex we think about sleep LOL
CarmenIbanez Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 Okay, so can we delve into the female sexuality phenomenon for a minute? I realize it is only quasi-related to the original post, but I somehow am stuck on the concept as it relates to male/female relationships, especially in marriage. Feeling important: I completely understand the idea of mutual respect. I understand that everyone, including men want to feel desired/loved/respected/important. What I do not understand is why you have to be feeling those things, just to have sex? I realize the female orgasm is complicated, really I do. But is everyone saying they can't even try to get in the mood unless ALL emotional needs are met? I mean if you're saying that the whole relationship is a sham, you are totally mistreated and unappreciated, and completely miserable, then sure, I get it. You can't "get it up" for the H. But if you're just annoyed because that day you feel unappreciated, why not give it a try anyway? The way we want it: We (women, and I say this as we, I have been guilty of most of things I write about here in my marriage) are notorious for getting what we want and being disappointed. He remembered our anniversary, but didn't buy the right gift. He folded the laundry, but not the way we like it folded, etc and so on. It took me a long time to realize that if I really wanted help/support/whatever from my husband, that I had to ask for what I wanted, and accept what I received. Trust me, I don't really like the way my H folds the clothes. But I finally learned that however it got done was preferable to me doing it. I feel the same way about sex. Are there some days when I'm looking for some TLC and don't get it? Yes. But there are some days when the H is looking for some foreplay, and he's not gettin' it either. The whole thing is about compromise. But I really think by reading these posts that women feel that men should compromise first. I'll have sex with you, but you must make me feel special first. Otherwise I won't/can't. But really, you could have sex without feeling special first. I mean, if you're having an orgasm, you're having an orgasm, right? You do get some gratification from the deal. Proud of the orgasm: I notice that no one here wants to talk about the orgasm. So fine. It's probably better for the other categories or whatever. But I just can't get over the feeling that if women enjoyed sex more, than even if they weren't feeling "special" that day, it wouldn't seem like such a chore. My husband is very proud of the fact that he can sexually please me. I think most men are proud of that. I think in some way he thinks it makes me feel special. And it does. My husband is also a super sappy romantic who cries at movies. I don't know where I am going here. *Sigh* I feel like I have delved into the repeating myself stage. I can't believe that some people think that having sex with their spouse when they aren't in mood is tantamount to being a slave. We certainly don't think a man who is forced to provide emotional support when he doesn't feel like it is a slave. Of course, that's different, right? But why? Because in the end, we think that our emotions are more important than theirs.
Scott S Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 Scott... you only suport the theory that a woman should respect a man's physical need without him respecting her emotional needs, because it suits you... cuz you're a man! What you're conspiring is non-consentual sex on the woman's part. Claiming that a woman should respect the man's physical need without desiring him is the same as if a slave said to his master: "I respect your need to exploit my work force for free so I will be so generous and please you!" Actually, I’ve said no such thing. The point of my earlier post is that CarmenIbanez seems to be remarkably understanding of a man’s viewpoint, & has quite an egalitarian view. Personally, I have encountered relatively few women with such a perspective. What I believe is that each partner needs to consider & respect the other’s needs, in whatever form they take. One of the major sources of tension & conflict in a relationship is the fact that each partner’s needs may not be the same as the other’s (and in some cases they are mutually exclusive), & that s/he considers only his/her own needs. Incidentally, men show love in a number of different ways beside sexual relations. Believe it or not, there are quite a few for whom that’s not even an issue. Do a search engine of “The Five Love Languages.” A mature person recognizes that sometimes s/he must forgo his/her needs for the greater good. I’m not in the habit of “keeping score,” rather I simply operate under the assumption that in the long run, things more or less even out. I frequently defer to Gina, & I know she has done likewise to me on countless occasions – undoubtedly more than I may realize. Of course, there is definitely a problem when one believes s/he is making all of the sacrifices. ________________________________________ If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be. - Yogi Berra
CarmenIbanez Posted October 21, 2005 Posted October 21, 2005 A mature person recognizes that sometimes s/he must forgo his/her needs for the greater good. I’m not in the habit of “keeping score,” rather I simply operate under the assumption that in the long run, things more or less even out. I frequently defer to Gina, & I know she has done likewise to me on countless occasions – undoubtedly more than I may realize. Of course, there is definitely a problem when one believes s/he is making all of the sacrifices. I guess a true measure of this particular situation is impossible. Realistically, there are ALWAYS two sides to a story. Relationship interaction is all about perspective, and two people can have very different perspectives on the situation. I always tell people that you can't judge a marriage from the outside, even if you know both partners, because it is just too complicated. I find marriages fascinating. The reason people get married, the reason they choose each other. How they communicate. I can't believe how many people I meet who are married to people that they may love, but don't even really like. People who cannot even tell their spouses the simplest things about them for fear of what might be said in return. It is hard to create an unconditional love. But unconditional love is almost required for two people to be able to honestly communicate. I also think that people who did not experience unconditional love from their parents find it most difficult to create intimacy in a relationship. But that's no psychological breakthrough! In terms of sacrifice, that too is all about perspective. Sometimes I feel like I sacrificed the career I wanted so I could be a better mother. But that is not my H's fault. So when I am upset about something related to that I have to tell him, look, just listen to my whiny crap and tell me that you totally agree with me, and then I'll feel better. And I do. I have said it many times before. Ask for what you want and be specific.
lilmoma1973 Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 [Quote: Originally Posted by Slubbergullion The 5 Sides of Intimacy Because men and women are different (long live their differences!), we often come at sexual intimacy in different ways. The husband's emphasis is often on the physical aspects—the seeing, touching, and climax are the focus of his attention. /B] Slubber you left out the women's needs :The wife, though, comes to sexual intimacy with more interest in the relationship. To feel loved, appreciated, and treated tenderly brings her great joy. Sexual intimacy requires understanding and responding to these differences
Mz. Pixie Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Gee, I'll be glad to talk about the orgasm. I love them! Love to have them. In fact, I'm highly sexual with my second husband- because he meets my needs in EVERY way and because he's good in bed. Women become resentful- right or wrong- about things that carry over into the bedroom. That is just a fact. If we don't like you we don't want to have sex with you.
Walk Posted October 26, 2005 Posted October 26, 2005 Men show their affection/intimacy/love through sex. At least most men that I have known. What I can't figure out is why women consider this so inferior to showing affection/intimacy/love through emotions? Why is sex bad and cuddling good? Why do we put things in a hierarchy of importance and deem who is right and who is wrong? ..............Why are physical needs considered "not a priority" compared to emotional needs? Wow. This was an epiphany for me!!! Thank you! I kept trying to put emotional needs and physical into levels, and the truth is, they can't be. My 2 cents: Man lives in right brained, logical world, where emotion doesn't reign. Women can float back and forth between logical and emotional. If we (women) wish to have our man in the emotional frame of mind, then we need to influence him, or direct him to it. Usually through sex. It's because we're superior beings... (I'm sort of joking.) Question Jade: When you gave him sex all the time, did he believe you were "into" it? Or that you were just going through the motions? Makes a big difference. If he felt you were cohersed, or forcing yourself to do that for him, then it's not the same. It'd be like having him cuddle with you when you know he really doesn't want to... leaves you feeling more empty then fulfilled. Or maybe a better example would be if he only cuddled because he wanted/expected sex afterward. What can be changed so that he doesn't feel you're only doing it out of duty, or obligation? Meaning, what can you do for the both of you so that you will both enjoy having sex. And PLEASE... do not take any of this as though I'm saying you haven't been, or aren't doing everthing you can. It's rare to see someone work so long and hard at a marriage (8 yrs) as you have. Don't quit until you've exhausted ALL possibilities, even those that seem ridiculous or absurd. Somewhere in all that miscommunication lies a solution.
Walk Posted October 26, 2005 Posted October 26, 2005 Last few thoughts, then I'm out of ideas.... I thought I'd been communicating with my exH for years on things I needed. He never met them, so I felt he didn't want to. I got fed up and left. Now, I realize that I although I thought I was being clear, my meaning wasn't getting through. I have to be a lot more blunt. Like... "I want to cuddle, now." Or I'll just crawl on his lap. Some men are thick skulled creatures. (Sorry guys.) I guess I see it like this. (Assuming you wanted sex with your H and he met your needs.) If he said he wanted more sex, but never initated, never told you specifically when, (ie you knew he specifically wanted it right then.) would you be purposely not meeting his needs? Because you didn't want to? Or because you were unaware? Maybe it'd work better if I flipped it around... You ask him to meet your emotional needs. When do you need a hug? A kiss? Or to Cuddle? You said you told him specific ways (in counseling) to help. How specific? And have you said anything about the way he helps that may have caused him to feel ridiculed, or like you were jumping his ass for not doing it the way you do? Are your words and actions coinciding? And lastly, if you feel as if you do all and he's not pulling his fair share. Maybe try roll reversal for a while. Maybe the both of you would have new respect for what the other goes through during their day and how tiring it is. If that's not possible, then try it out for a vacation or something. Leave him with the kids for 5-7 days alone. But you need to see his side too. The stress from working, having others constantly over you, never feeling appreciated, or even feeling that the work you put in will get you the few things you really want in life without having to ask your SO if it's okay.
Recommended Posts