Has anyone who's drawn to emotionally unavailable partners ended up happy in a 'healthy' relationship?

[financial_ad429]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

@financial_ad429 from reading this thread, it stands out that you only want and desire dysfunctional men.  To a point where you won't even bother with a man who's kind, loving and reliable.   

What sort of advice were you hoping for when making this thread -  were you just complaining about what your friend said?   Or do you actually want a better man in your life?

You are correct. I don’t see myself ever being happy as I was with the married man- even though he never left his wife and moreover, was never even slightly romantic w me and actually pushes me away if I did any warm physical gesture as I said!

[smackie9]

It’s all psychological. We desire most what we can’t have. It really does play on the mind and how we respond. Emotionally unavailable appears masculine and strong silent type. They seem mysterious and you are driven to have their attention. When they give you a few crumbs, it makes you feel incredibly special, like you are taming the beast. You chase that hit of dopamine…it’s so addictive you are willing to sacrifice your own self worth. A gentleman that treats you right doesn’t give you that same punch emotionally so you don’t see any real attraction. 

[financial_ad429]

1 minute ago, smackie9 said:

It’s all psychological. We desire most what we can’t have. It really does play on the mind and how we respond. Emotionally unavailable appears masculine and strong silent type. They seem mysterious and you are driven to have their attention. When they give you a few crumbs, it makes you feel incredibly special, like you are taming the beast. You chase that hit of dopamine…it’s so addictive you are willing to sacrifice your own self worth. A gentleman that treats you right doesn’t give you that same punch emotionally so you don’t see any real attraction. 

Exactly!!! And I can’t see myself going the whole rest of my life without having that ever again, but I also refuse to be a cheater so I also can’t just setttle for less!

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

It’s all psychological. We desire most what we can’t have.

I would imagine that this only applies to those who have a degree of dysfunction.   

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, financial_ad429 said:

You are correct. I don’t see myself ever being happy as I was with the married man- even though he never left his wife and moreover, was never even slightly romantic w me and actually pushes me away if I did any warm physical gesture as I said!

So you're comfortable in the knowledge that you will never have a happy, healthy relationship?

[financial_ad429]

31 minutes ago, basil67 said:

So you're comfortable in the knowledge that you will never have a happy, healthy relationship?

No, I just subscribe to the notion that if I were only better, then this cheater who says he’s never getting divorced and moved away from his wife and son for no reason while they cried Will be better to me 

[d0nnivain]

You are failing to recognize that these broken men with a life time of bad habits won't change those patterns & suddenly make a good partner to you.  It's not about you being better.  It's about you learning to chose more wisely.  

[Woggle]

If you are happy with temporary passion and fireworks with men who will never be good partners then have fun. Just be aware that it will just be temporary passion that most likely will include the low comedown as well. Try and figure out if you are happy with that.

[poppyfields]

@financial_ad429you mentioned "healthy" relationship in your title.

What does a healthy relationship look like to you?

I think it's one of those ambiguous words that can have several different meanings depending on who is doing the defining.

By most people's standards, healthy means consistent, stable, no highs/lows, no uncertainty. Steady. Safe. 

However, not everyone is attracted to that or even wants that!

They are attracted to, they want, they need a bit of chaos, perhaps it's familiar to them and thus they feel comfortable with it.  

They enjoy the passion and excitement that comes with that, perhaps they are the type of person who needs a lot of emotional stimulation in their relationships and to be challenged.

That's okay, we all need different things, what's right for one person may not be right for another. 

And the emotionally unavailable will provide that, in abundance!   It may be what the person is most comfortable with as they are emotionally unavailable themselves.  

They may not be consciously aware they are, but let's face it, if they/you were emotionally available yourself and wanted stability, certainty, commitment, there is no way on God's green earth you would remain with an emotionally unavailable man, no way.

So my advice is to own who you are.  Own what you need. Own what pulls you in and keeps you there.  Own what you are most comfortable with.  Own what makes you happy!

You said you enjoy those highs and lows.  The highs are filled with high passion and excitement and the lows?   Well, they're something you are willing to tolerate in order to experience the highs. 

You cannot have both.  You cannot have "healthy" as defined by society AND the excitement/passion/highs at the same time. 

Not possible because the reason there is so much passion and excitement is precisely because of the uncertainty and instability the emotionally unavailable man provides. 

So it's a choice, a trade off if you will. 

Feel at peace with your choice. Own who you are, be happy with who you are and accept who you are.

Edited September 26, 2021 by poppyfields

[Woggle]

You can have healthy and have excitement and passion. In my relationship we have that and have a ton of fun without all the drama and headaches that come with dysfunctional relationships. Covid sort of put a damper on it but we have a ton of fun without all the lows.  I don't know where people get this idea that you need to choose between safe and boring and dysfunctional and exciting. I just don't get that mentality. 

To the OP if you genuinely do want a healthy relationship get out of that mindset because it is simply not true. 

[spiderowl]

19 hours ago, financial_ad429 said:

I’d love to know how. My relationship history is men who looked great on paper but were always lacking something emotionally, like
1) guy unable to say he loved me after years, stared at wall and shut me out for a full day if any conflict
2) guy who admitted he really only wanted to be left alone to work, and his fave activity to do w me was work on our laptops near each other
3) married guy who explained he left his wife and child for faraway job, just bc he felt like it, for $/selfishness/ freedom, even though they were crying… in meantime, he asked his old GF to move w him instead… then went back on that, but his wife briefly thew him out for it, & his ex tried to commit suicide bc of how terribly he treated her. Told me he’d never want another relationship bc there’d always be expectations he couldn’t meet and he will never be able to fully be w anyone… and later admitted, guess what, he’s never getting divorced. Meanwhile tried to make me feel badly for seeing other men, after saying we’d only ever be friends .

Several of these men would say things in text that made me feel they must care, but in person were detached. One always ignoring me to compulsively (his word) work. With Another, if I even put a hand on him affectionately, he’d pick it up and remove it. Another told me he’s a sociopath.

my best friend said I’ve never once given a chance to an emotionally “normal” guy. I agree, bc if they seem genuinely interested and have emotions, then I assume they’re “weak men” or needy and feel turned off and run the other way. I’m very comfortable in the role of chasing or doing all the work to try to help disordered men… very uncomfortable thinking about them doing anything for me, or trying to get very close to me (I’m used to men keeping me at arms length). I also need intensity and excitement, which the chase provides.

It's interesting but you already know what needs to change for you to find a more engaged partner.  Stop getting turned off if a guy is genuinely interested, don't chase them, let them chase you.  Allow people to do things for you because that way they feel more engaged with you.

But, it is apparent from what you say that you are not attracted to guys who could become engaged and involved with you so I guess you are going to be stuck with the emotionally unavailable.  What is it about these guys that you like?  They do not appear to have leadership qualities, which I could understand, the only thing that seems to appeal to you (from what you said) is that you have to chase them.  That might make them seem more desirable to you but they are not.

[poppyfields]

9 minutes ago, Woggle said:

You can have healthy and have excitement and passion

I agree which is why I asked how she defines "healthy." 

I have my own definition, it works for me and the men I have relationships with.

But it's not how everyone defines it.

In fact, my relationships may look "unhealthy" to many people, people who prefer a more "traditional" type of relationship.

Edited September 26, 2021 by poppyfields

[Classicfiction]

30 minutes ago, Woggle said:

If you are happy with temporary passion and fireworks with men who will never be good partners then have fun. Just be aware that it will just be temporary passion that most likely will include the low comedown as well. Try and figure out if you are happy with that.

Yep.  That low comedown eventually makes the fireworks not worth it.  @financial_ad429, how old are you?

I didn't even realize I was addicted to this kind of rollercoaster type chasing of unavailable men until recently and Im 41.  It's good that you at least recognize what you're doing.  Maybe you'll decide that stability and cool vacations with the right man is a better kind of excitement in the near future...  

[basil67]

1 hour ago, financial_ad429 said:

No, I just subscribe to the notion that if I were only better, then this cheater who says he’s never getting divorced and moved away from his wife and son for no reason while they cried Will be better to me 

In this case, your critical thinking is off.   The man you're talking about is a self proclaimed sociopath - he's never going to be about anyone but himself.

Have you asked yourself why you subscribe to this notion despite all evidence being to the contrary? 

[Weezy1973]

33 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

 

I didn't even realize I was addicted

This is the perfect metaphor - only it isn’t a metaphor. If we were to describe any other kind of addiction - drugs, alcohol, gambling etc. nobody would be saying you can be a “healthy drug addict”. Although there are certainly functional drug addicts, it’s definitely not healthy. 
 

The OP is addicted to the passion. To the highs and lows. And addicts are addicts. Therapy may reveal the why. 

[Alpacalia]

20 hours ago, financial_ad429 said:

I’d love to know how. My relationship history is men who looked great on paper but were always lacking something emotionally, like
1) guy unable to say he loved me after years, stared at wall and shut me out for a full day if any conflict
2) guy who admitted he really only wanted to be left alone to work, and his fave activity to do w me was work on our laptops near each other
3) married guy who explained he left his wife and child for faraway job, just bc he felt like it, for $/selfishness/ freedom, even though they were crying…

Trying to make people available is not part of the route to emotional availability. That's a surefire way to sabotage yourself.

Have you considered therapy? It might be an ideal option for you if you've noticed a trend in which every relationship you've had has been with unavailable people.

It means acknowledging your worries and fears to yourself, as well as making a list of everything you've been avoiding.

Do you have any idea what some of those might be?

With any luck, you'll be able to adjust your antenna and begin to notice and be attracted to emotionally open males you encounter and ignore the ones that aren't.

[spiderowl]

2 hours ago, smackie9 said:

It’s all psychological. We desire most what we can’t have. It really does play on the mind and how we respond. Emotionally unavailable appears masculine and strong silent type. They seem mysterious and you are driven to have their attention. When they give you a few crumbs, it makes you feel incredibly special, like you are taming the beast. You chase that hit of dopamine…it’s so addictive you are willing to sacrifice your own self worth. A gentleman that treats you right doesn’t give you that same punch emotionally so you don’t see any real attraction. 

The thing about emotionally unavailable is that because there is such a deficit of emotion and response, one can project all sorts of needs/feelings onto these men.  They are like a blank sheet.  You can imagine they are all sorts of things they are not.  

[financial_ad429]

13 hours ago, basil67 said:

In this case, your critical thinking is off.   The man you're talking about is a self proclaimed sociopath - he's never going to be about anyone but himself.

Have you asked yourself why you subscribe to this notion despite all evidence being to the contrary? 

Agree. What sense did it make for me to hear somebody say there was nothing wrong with his marriage, he left it & his kid to move far away only to be selfish and now is never getting divorced even though he “ruined” things… and also promised his son he’d never remarry or have any other family… and also that meanwhile he asked his ex to move w him instead while his family was crying, and his wife threw him out for that… who hears all that and thinks the person will be available for a stable relationship ever? Honestly?

[poppyfields]

I often wonder what people mean when saying someone is "emotionally unavailable."

I mean if there are highs and lows, and intense passion when experiencing the highs, then clearly such person is emotionally open (and available) during those periods, right? 

So they do experience emotions and are "available," problem is such emotions are inconsistent, they're unable to sustain so they pull back, go cold, hence the "lows" their partner experiences.  And perhaps even the person who has gone cold. 

It's a relationship of extremes.

I agree with @smackie9that there is a lot of "filling in the blanks" as well as lots of wondering, uncertainty, longing.

Such emotions are intense!  More so than than the peace, certainty and calm typically associated with a more 'healthy' stable love as defined by "society."

I don't really know, just some things I've been wondering about lately as at times, I have been accused of being emotionally unavailable myself, despite my being a highly emotional person.  I can also become quite detached too.

A dichotomy of sorts, a duality. 

@financial_ad429can you relate to this? 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by poppyfields

[Snow_Queen]

On 9/26/2021 at 8:08 AM, d0nnivain said:

My husband a military veteran is not exactly an open book.  He's very stoic & doesn't express himself with words often or well.  It has caused tension in our marriage when I get frustrated.  Problem is the more I vocalize, especially if loudly, the harder he shuts down.  It's a vicious cycle.  

We have had marriage counseling to work on communication.  All the therapists tell him that he has to talk more but they also remind me that I have to listen more.  I'm wordy & chatty.  Words just don't come to him that easily but we were taught that sometimes I need to say "please use your words" & then listen, even if we have to sit there for 5 minutes while he figures out what to say.  He has been taught to at least touch my hand so I know he heard me even as he's processing.  He also at least says "give me a minute."  I'm better when I know he's at least acknowledging that he needs to say something, which helps me remain patient while he thinks things through.  I still get frustrated because I process out loud verbally so I don't understand his internal quiet method but it really does help when he communicates to me the process is occurring.  In that respect DH reminds me of the guy who enjoyed working on his lap top next to you. 

So you have to figure out what you want.  I think your friend has some very good insights.  You pick these broken guys then thrive on the drama of them not giving you what you claim to want.  You have to learn to relinquish the "alpha" / leadership role you have chosen for yourself.  It's safe for you because when the man is more broken then you are, you look good by comparison.  If you found a healthy man then your flaws & struggles will be more noticeable.   

I am a strong woman with a big personality.  When I was searching for DH I threw it out to the universe that I wanted a man who was strong enough to let me be weak.  Along came my stoic military veteran.  He lets me do my thing, which to the outside world looks like I'm the leader in our relationship because he's not much of a planner.  He's happy enough to come along but he will almost never be the driver behind our activities.  

I have a similar relationship with my SO. He doesn’t like to talk about personal issues. The more I pushed for him to open up to me, the more distance he placed between us. It became really frustrating because I prefer open communication.

We finally reached a point where he told me to accept who he is or don’t. He was right. I could decide to be okay with it or I could choose to walk away. Of course, I love him enough to try to see it from his perspective. It required a lot of patience in my end. My acceptance actually led to him opening up a little more. Some days are still difficult but we have made a lot of progress. As I learned to accept who he was, he also had to accept the person I am. Together, we work to find a good middle ground. 

[financial_ad429]

9 minutes ago, Snow_Queen said:

I have a similar relationship with my SO. He doesn’t like to talk about personal issues. The more I pushed for him to open up to me, the more distance he placed between us. It became really frustrating because I prefer open communication.

We finally reached a point where he told me to accept who he is or don’t. He was right. I could decide to be okay with it or I could choose to walk away. Of course, I love him enough to try to see it from his perspective. It required a lot of patience in my end. My acceptance actually led to him opening up a little more. Some days are still difficult but we have made a lot of progress. As I learned to accept who he was, he also had to accept the person I am. Together, we work to find a good middle ground. 

This is a good story. In my situation though he refuses any commitment, title, says he wants to always be totally free/ yet is also staying married. So I don’t know how to sustain myself in a dynamic where he’s told me to expect nothing from him; and in fact posts about his wife on social media and says they’re never getting divorced; and tries to tell me about some other woman at same time as openly sexting me.

[poppyfields]

17 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I agree with @smackie9that there is a lot of "filling in the blanks" as well as lots of wondering, uncertainty, longing.

Apologies, I meant I agree with @spiderowl.

[chicken_and_quaffles]

On 9/25/2021 at 10:46 PM, financial_ad429 said:

I’d love to know how. My relationship history is men who looked great on paper but were always lacking something emotionally, like
1) guy unable to say he loved me after years, stared at wall and shut me out for a full day if any conflict
2) guy who admitted he really only wanted to be left alone to work, and his fave activity to do w me was work on our laptops near each other
3) married guy who explained he left his wife and child for faraway job, just bc he felt like it, for $/selfishness/ freedom, even though they were crying… in meantime, he asked his old GF to move w him instead… then went back on that, but his wife briefly thew him out for it, & his ex tried to commit suicide bc of how terribly he treated her. Told me he’d never want another relationship bc there’d always be expectations he couldn’t meet and he will never be able to fully be w anyone… and later admitted, guess what, he’s never getting divorced. Meanwhile tried to make me feel badly for seeing other men, after saying we’d only ever be friends .

Several of these men would say things in text that made me feel they must care, but in person were detached. One always ignoring me to compulsively (his word) work. With Another, if I even put a hand on him affectionately, he’d pick it up and remove it. Another told me he’s a sociopath.

my best friend said I’ve never once given a chance to an emotionally “normal” guy. I agree, bc if they seem genuinely interested and have emotions, then I assume they’re “weak men” or needy and feel turned off and run the other way. I’m very comfortable in the role of chasing or doing all the work to try to help disordered men… very uncomfortable thinking about them doing anything for me, or trying to get very close to me (I’m used to men keeping me at arms length). I also need intensity and excitement, which the chase provides.

I gravitated to this post right away because I also have a history of choosing unavailable men. 

I'm still struggling, but therapy has helped. I don't know you, so I don't know if this applies to you but I've learned that people who choose emotionally unavailable men have a part of themselves that's also emotionally unavailable. And I see that in your post, when you mention being uncomfortable with closeness or genuine emotion. I think you might need to reflect on why you feel this way. Do you think you don't deserve their love? Do you feel as if you'll owe them something if they something nice for you? There is something in you that is preventing you from closeness. Honestly, I don't want to jump right to "try therapy" because I know it's not for everyone. It's definitely helped me thus far in realizing my own emotionally unavailable and codependent tendencies. 

My therapist's advice was to date outside my comfort zone and choose men I normally wouldn't. The reason you probably choose these men is because you know they won't push your emotional boundaries or force you to talk about emotions or feelings. It's comfortable. 

[poppyfields]

22 minutes ago, financial_ad429 said:

This is a good story. In my situation though he refuses any commitment, title, says he wants to always be totally free/ yet is also staying married. So I don’t know how to sustain myself in a dynamic where he’s told me to expect nothing from him; and in fact posts about his wife on social media and says they’re never getting divorced; and tries to tell me about some other woman at same time as openly sexting me.

@financial_ad429 would  you consider yourself "emotionally available"? 

Open and available for a stable  "healthy" relationship with another emotionally and otherwise available partner on a consistent basis? (See my first post on this thread suggesting you might be emotional unavailable yourself.)

If yes you are available, what is it about this unstable sitch you find so appealing?  What's keeping you there?

As I posted previously, it's a choice, a trade off.

Make your choice.  Whether you choose to stay or leave, own that choice.  Own who you are and what you need. 

Be happy. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by poppyfields

[smackie9]

16 hours ago, basil67 said:

I would imagine that this only applies to those who have a degree of dysfunction.   

No this is typical for everyone, just in varied degrees.