Complete craziness

[Ami1uwant]

4 hours ago, falxmanolo said:

See this is the natural conclusion.

They both claim it was one-sided. I understand why he would lie about it. Why must she lie about it? I've seen the texts/the call records. I've heard the back story. Wouldn't she gain more by saying my bf reciprocated feelings for her? Isn't that ideal? I wouldn't even be on the forum if she claimed he loved her too. She feels that he doesn't realise she is his soulmate. 

 

this is very stalker type behavior if they did not have some sort of romantic past.

 

id need to know their entire past..no boundaries.  
 

you need to be supportive and non judgmental or not personal because be already woukdnt share past contract due to how you react.

 

sharing this kind of info with you is willingly putting hand on a hot stove.

heknows her and cares about her.  That doesn’t mean he loves her.

 

 

 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

52 minutes ago, falxmanolo said:

The reason for not telling the best friend is because he didn’t want them to not work out because of some phase she was going through.

What a load of equine manure. 

[mark clemson]

It sounds to me like the party-crashing friend has serious limerence for your fiancee or a serious psychological issue such as strong disorganized attachment or a tendency towards alcohol abuse. Possibly several issues.

IF you're going to stay with your fiancee, he needs to get serious about putting an end to this. For example, suicide threats are a matter for local emergency responders, not a visit from a friend. Not only are such threats manipulative (and considered a form of psychological abuse by some) but they are way above your fiancee's paygrade. The friend may also be afoul of stalking laws.

Once real consequences start to get implemented, such as the involvement of authorities, the behaviors will probably stop.

IF you are feeling like the fact this was kept secret is reason to rethink your engagement, well one can hardly blame you. You'll have to make the decision you feel is best on that.

[stillafool]

Is this this the same girl from your other thread where you didn't want to invite her to the engagement party at your parents house?  You invited her bf but not her?  Were you going to invite her to the wedding?

[Wiseman2]

47 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Once real consequences start to get implemented, such as the involvement of authorities, the behaviors will probably stop.

Agree it was a good idea for her to get a restraining order against this woman. 

[stillafool]

In your other thread you said you've never met this person but seemed upset that she blocked you on FB.  Why would she friend you if you've never met?  Also your bf didn't want to invite his best friend if his gf wasn't invited so why did you end up inviting the best friend to the party?  If they've been dating for years what excuse did you give the best friend for not inviting his girl?

[poppyfields]

FWIW, after mentioning Fatal Attraction in a previous post, I did some research and found this (below) which I thought interesting about Alex, the woman Dan (Michael Douglas) had the weekend fling with, who thereafter became obsessed with him after his rejection.

You also mentioned she threatened suicide.  Alex actually attempted suicide.  The similarities between her and the woman in your story are strikingly similar.

Just something to consider. 

-----

>>The character of Alex Forrest has been discussed by psychiatrists and film experts, and has been used as a film illustration for the condition borderline personality disorder,

The character displays the behaviours of impulsivity, emotional lability, frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, frequent severe anger, self-harming, and changing from idealization to devaluation; these traits are consistent with the diagnosis but not to this degree, generally, aggression tends to be towards the self rather than others, this is a more common feature in borderline personality disorder.<<

I'm so sorry this is happening, tough decisions ahead for sure.

Good luck 

Edited September 25, 2021 by poppyfields

[ShyViolet]

You absolutely need to call off the engagement.  Your boyfriend is just as much guilty in all this as this psycho woman is.  He enabled and allowed this situation.  He has incredibly poor judgment to even be "best friends" with a woman as mentally unstable and immature as this.  She didn't just turn this way overnight, I'm sure that she has showed signs of being mentally unstable or crazy in the past, and yet he chose to stay involved with her and allow this.  You don't marry someone like that.  This crazy woman isn't the only one you need to cut out of your life, you honestly need to end your relationship with your boyfriend as well.  He's dysfunctional.  They deserve each other.

[falxmanolo]

5 hours ago, stillafool said:

In your other thread you said you've never met this person but seemed upset that she blocked you on FB.  Why would she friend you if you've never met?  Also your bf didn't want to invite his best friend if his gf wasn't invited so why did you end up inviting the best friend to the party?  If they've been dating for years what excuse did you give the best friend for not inviting his girl?

Yes, I had never met one on one ever. She may have been in the same party/gathering as I was but never interacted. We were not even friends on ANY SM, she blocked me despite not being friends. 

This was not really a party, it was similar to a bridal shower but for the groom. So we invited largely all the men (friends & family). Frankly, apart from a handful of my girlfriends & my immediate family, there were hardly any women. It was essentially like a boys night that’s put together by the in-laws to be for their future son-in-law. 

[falxmanolo]

3 hours ago, poppyfields said:

FWIW, after mentioning Fatal Attraction in a previous post, I did some research and found this (below) which I thought interesting about Alex, the woman Dan (Michael Douglas) had the weekend fling with, who thereafter became obsessed with him after his rejection.

You also mentioned she threatened suicide.  Alex actually attempted suicide.  The similarities between her and the woman in your story are strikingly similar.

Just something to consider. 

-----

>>The character of Alex Forrest has been discussed by psychiatrists and film experts, and has been used as a film illustration for the condition borderline personality disorder,

The character displays the behaviours of impulsivity, emotional lability, frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, frequent severe anger, self-harming, and changing from idealization to devaluation; these traits are consistent with the diagnosis but not to this degree, generally, aggression tends to be towards the self rather than others, this is a more common feature in borderline personality disorder.<<

I'm so sorry this is happening, tough decisions ahead for sure.

Good luck 

My therapist didn’t dwell much on her as much as she did on my bf. But at one point she did say look, this lady has beyond serious mental health troubles- sounds like she has BPD. Very possible. My bf has a pretty non-assertive personality too, which gives it a nice substrate for someone with BPD to tango with. 

[falxmanolo]

3 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

You absolutely need to call off the engagement.  Your boyfriend is just as much guilty in all this as this psycho woman is.  He enabled and allowed this situation.  He has incredibly poor judgment to even be "best friends" with a woman as mentally unstable and immature as this.  She didn't just turn this way overnight, I'm sure that she has showed signs of being mentally unstable or crazy in the past, and yet he chose to stay involved with her and allow this.  You don't marry someone like that.  This crazy woman isn't the only one you need to cut out of your life, you honestly need to end your relationship with your boyfriend as well.  He's dysfunctional.  They deserve each other.

Violet you speak my mind 

 

I have seen & worked with very very difficult people. But I don’t invite them into my life to create ruckus. I almost feel like the person I thought my bf to be has changed. Not only did he conceal & DECEIVE me but also what about his judgement? 
If I truly cared about a friend who had such deep feelings for me, I would not lead them on with attention and time? For the sake of their sanity I would end things to not give them any false assurance. He clearly enjoyed this psychotic attention didn’t he. And at the cost of her sanity. No wonder she is enraged?

 

on a side note, one of my parting remarks to him was “you both deserve each other” haha. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by falxmanolo
Edit last sentence

[Lotsgoingon]

Your bf attracts a deranged, dangerous person into his life--refuses to set a boundary. The suicide threat is so lame--you cannot ever comply with such a threat because doing so is giving in to terrorism. Literally. That's what police would call it: her threatening suicide if he cut her off is a terroristic threat.

Lose this guy. You are putting your life in danger and certainly the relationship in danger. Lose him. He's not ready to be a mature human being who knows how to say no to people and how to avoid bonding with nutsy people.

Look, if he can't ditch this totally nuts person, how is he going to stand up to the people who are only moderately nuts? They will seem so much less threatening.

Lose this guy. What is the debate in your mind about? Men aren't robots. If you had a man like this in your life, I could your bf you. You are not safe or reliable or trustworthy to be with. Trust isn't just your level of goodness, to pick a word. Trust also relates to your capability. Can you get to the job on time. Can you say no to craziness? 

Get out. Immediately. Get out. And what's going on in therapy that you can't see this?! What happened in your childhood that made you tolerant of danger and craziness in an intimate relationship?

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, falxmanolo said:

I almost feel like the person I thought my bf to be has changed.

I'm not sure it changed, but rather you're finally getting to know who he truly is and always has been. 

And it's not good. 

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, falxmanolo said:

My therapist didn’t dwell much on her as much as she did on my bf. 

Exactly. The BFs actions are the real issue. You don't need to examine her mental health . She's crazy, you got a restraining order. Done.

Continue to focus on the important issues and that is why your BF acted as he did and how that effects you.

[Drone]

9 hours ago, falxmanolo said:

like she has BPD. Very possible. My bf has a pretty non-assertive personality too, which gives it a nice substrate for someone with BPD to tango with.

A classical "tango" partner for a person with BPD, is a narcissist. The Narcissist cannot stand a person with healthy boundaries, the BPD has none. The BPD gives the narcissist abundant attention, and this is the favorite food for a Narcissist, he craves it, even if it is negative attention (stalking, scandals, suicide threats). 

Perhaps this is something that could explain your BF behavior, it wasn't because he cared about her, or didn't want to cause trouble in his friend's couple, or he wanted to protect your feelings. Your boyfriend was willingly pulling the strings of this, sadly, emotionally unstable woman, to enjoy the unlimited attention he was getting from her. OP, you were supposed to be the sane, becoming wife, and she was supposed to fulfill his desires for sick little games and unlimited source of attention. If she really suffers from BPD (and I see the tell-tale signs: unstable relationships, black-and white splitting, emotional outbursts, suicide ideation), I doubt things were kept purely platonic, as BPD women are known for highly sexualised relating to the opposite sex.

With, or without sex, I think that your fiancé willingly created an emotional dependency in this woman, and enjoyed every ounce of attention she generously gave him. He is certainly not the nice man he wants you to believe he is. Most probably, if not full blown narcissist, he has strong narcissistic tendencies. 

[Datergirl]

Honestly, this sounds like a nightmare to me! 

This is just the start of it for you I'm afraid. Your boyfriend has been friends with this couple during their toxic and unhealthy 15 year on/off/cheating/lying relationship. He is still friends with them. It doesn't show his character in a very good light at all. 

If you continue with him there will he more of the same and worse. I've been there. Its exhausting and frankly not worth the metal anguish that comes with it.

Be wise. 

[Stret]

I agree with many comments you received, but I felt compelled to respond because I had a similar experience some years ago. 

Biggest problem for me if I were in your situation would be an issue of trust. Nobody changes. If he is such a nice guy, he will always stay a nice guy. Issue is nice people are aholes. Don't believe me? Google "difference between good people and nice people". People who are always nice to everyone do so to make their own life easier, to gain something for themselves, to climb social or corporate ladder, etc. Your BF didn't hide the real situation to help you or her BF. He did it to not get into trouble and to make you to stay with him on his terms. "If she doesn't know this, then she will stay with me, I will not have any trouble with her because she will continue seeing me the same way, so I will keep her in the dark to have all of them in my life." Without going into his motives, even if he did this with best intentions, he is still a guy that didn't see danger to his own relationship or to your well-being. You guys should have solved the problem of her together, and he should have told his friend immediately about the way his GF was behaving. A decent guy would feel guilty going to hold someone hand and wipe their tears when he has to hide it from his GF and his best friend. At worst, he is a manipulator and someone who will always hide things and lie. At best he is naïve and lacks backbone. Do not marry a man that didn't feel close enough to you to tell you if this has been bothering him. He might now promise you everything to get you back, and he might mean it but he is who he is and eventually he will do something similar in other aspects of life or indeed in the same aspect and maybe even involving the same person.  

As I said, people don't change - they might change temporarily but this character of his will pop up in different ways in the years to come if you stay with him. 

My ex had a friend who didn't want anything sexual from him but she wanted to be the main woman in his life. I would come to visit from another country and within 15 minutes she was there at his house talking to him for hour. I just arrived and there she was needing to talk to him - and like that every time. When we would go out to have fun, if she wasn't the centre of attention she would make something up to start crying about and then all attention was on her. Worst thing - she would physically hang on him all the time, giving him long and intimate hugs while whispering something into his ear. I had enough and told him he has to cut it - it escalated - he finally cut her out of his life after many fights we had, told me he could see how she was trying to ruin his relationship and he didn't need friends like that - but the moment we broke up she was back into his life. 

What is the status of things now with you and your BF?

Good luck! 

[falxmanolo]

10 hours ago, Stret said:

I agree with many comments you received, but I felt compelled to respond because I had a similar experience some years ago. 

Biggest problem for me if I were in your situation would be an issue of trust. Nobody changes. If he is such a nice guy, he will always stay a nice guy. Issue is nice people are aholes. Don't believe me? Google "difference between good people and nice people". People who are always nice to everyone do so to make their own life easier, to gain something for themselves, to climb social or corporate ladder, etc. Your BF didn't hide the real situation to help you or her BF. He did it to not get into trouble and to make you to stay with him on his terms. "If she doesn't know this, then she will stay with me, I will not have any trouble with her because she will continue seeing me the same way, so I will keep her in the dark to have all of them in my life." Without going into his motives, even if he did this with best intentions, he is still a guy that didn't see danger to his own relationship or to your well-being. You guys should have solved the problem of her together, and he should have told his friend immediately about the way his GF was behaving. A decent guy would feel guilty going to hold someone hand and wipe their tears when he has to hide it from his GF and his best friend. At worst, he is a manipulator and someone who will always hide things and lie. At best he is naïve and lacks backbone. Do not marry a man that didn't feel close enough to you to tell you if this has been bothering him. He might now promise you everything to get you back, and he might mean it but he is who he is and eventually he will do something similar in other aspects of life or indeed in the same aspect and maybe even involving the same person.  

As I said, people don't change - they might change temporarily but this character of his will pop up in different ways in the years to come if you stay with him. 

My ex had a friend who didn't want anything sexual from him but she wanted to be the main woman in his life. I would come to visit from another country and within 15 minutes she was there at his house talking to him for hour. I just arrived and there she was needing to talk to him - and like that every time. When we would go out to have fun, if she wasn't the centre of attention she would make something up to start crying about and then all attention was on her. Worst thing - she would physically hang on him all the time, giving him long and intimate hugs while whispering something into his ear. I had enough and told him he has to cut it - it escalated - he finally cut her out of his life after many fights we had, told me he could see how she was trying to ruin his relationship and he didn't need friends like that - but the moment we broke up she was back into his life. 

What is the status of things now with you and your BF?

Good luck! 

Wow, thank you Stret.. I could feel compassion & rationale in your comment & it means so much to me. 

I also arrived at a v similar conclusion; he is either a completely filthy lying cheating rat OR he is so stupid & spineless & inept at handling situations like this. Frankly, neither of them are appealing qualities or those I desire in a longterm partner. 

At present, I've put on hold all wedding planning. I took a week long break & have now returned to work. I'm slowly regaining my sanity. 

As for my bf, immediately after this scene; she kept blowing up his phone. He answered her call & asked her to never call again unless she wants to hear of a harassment suite. He then went on to block her & changed his mobile number. She tried to reach me him & me via her mother's phone; by then RO was instated. Blocked on all SM. All mutual friends know about this ordeal, hence everybody is wary of her presence. She also took off on holiday to Paris amidst this psychotic madness. 

As for my equation with bf; 

-he met me in person 2-3 times to explain himself

-he wrote me a long letter explaining himself 

-he continues to send me apology messages 

-he seems distraught; most of his communication starts with saying sorry, taking blame, understanding the mistake made, understanding my suffering, regret, some explanation for his action/inaction, fears, expression of future intentions, actions he has taken in the aftermath to solidify future intention, commitment to therapy to understand his behaviour. The usual shebang.  

-we don't communicate the usual how is your day/whats happening for dinner and such anymore. 

My head is still confused, my heart is still coming to terms. It's going to be a long recovery...

[poppyfields]

5 hours ago, falxmanolo said:

As my equation with bf; 

-he met me in person 2-3 times to explain himself

-he wrote me a long letter explaining himself 

-he continues to send me apology messages 

-he seems distraught; most of his communication starts with saying sorry, taking blame, understanding the mistake made, understanding my suffering, regret, some explanation for his action/inaction, fears, expression of future intentions, actions he has taken in the aftermath to solidify future intention, commitment to therapy to understand his behaviour. The usual sheba

Amidst all his explaining and apologies, is he still denying "something" happened between them or has he owned up to that?

Perhaps before you and him ever got together? 

If he is still denying, what's his position about why she is so psychotically obsessed with him?  

What did he say were the mistakes he made? 

You dont have to answer here if too personal, only to yourself. 

I'm.glad you are taking time to assess. You sound like a lovely person with your head on straight, you'll be ok no matter what the outcome.  xo

 

[falxmanolo]

54 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Amidst all his explaining and apologies, is he still denying "something" happened between them or has he owned up to that?

Perhaps before you and him ever got together? 

If he is still denying, what's his position about why she is so psychotically obsessed with him?  

What did he say were the mistakes he made? 

You dont have to answer here if too personal, only to yourself. 

I'm.glad you are taking time to assess. You sound like a lovely person with your head on straight, you'll be ok no matter what the outcome.  xo

 

He claims absolutely nothing transpired between the two of them. He claims that they were always best of friends (my bf+ her+ her bf). She started acting territorial & possessive when we started dating, which my bf put down to them just being best of friends and her watching out for him since apparently he was heartbroken the first time we split apart whilst we were LDR'ing. She only confessed these deep feelings for him after he proposed to me, post April that is. 

He feels a couple of things; he feels that she has misconstrued his friendship (I mean, friendship or casual flirting?). He feels he was not able to separate the friend he saw in her from a woman that was in love with him (i mean, again seriously?!). He says he hung out with her as a friend (which he always did, before he met me too. He stopping casually hanging out with her once I told him she's strange) and felt "obligated" to be there for her.

He feels his biggest mistake was hiding from me & his best friend; the calls, pleas to meet, the actual meetings. His second biggest regret is not pulling a hard stop. Third regret seems to be his own behaviour where he feels he has misled her by giving her attention. 

As I type some of this, I come to the realisation of how absurd his thoughts are. And frankly what a nightmare my life has become.. i just want out! 

To him, I have broken things off; there is no going back; so in my eyes, there is literally no point in lying anymore. 

 

[stillafool]

I can't believe his friend would still want her after now knowing she's in love with your fiance.  Incredible.

[poppyfields]

10 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I can't believe his friend would still want her after now knowing she's in love with your fiance.  Incredible.

If she is truly borderline personality as suspected and discussed, she is most likely  highly sexualized and as such he may be somewhat addicted to that and to her, as dysfunctional as it sounds. 

I once knew a man who was stable and successful until his involvement with a woman diagnosed with borderline after which he became a complete and utter mess, lost his business, ruined his life, literally. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by poppyfields

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

she is most likely  highly sexualized and as such he may be somewhat addicted to that and to her,

Yes I've seen this too with that personality.  Even guys who come to LS have a hard time gettng over those women.  

[poppyfields]

10 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Yes I've seen this too with that personality.  Even guys who come to LS have a hard time gettng over those women.  

Yup, in fact I know of one as I write this...

Edited September 27, 2021 by poppyfields

[Stret]

14 hours ago, falxmanolo said:

Wow, thank you Stret.. I could feel compassion & rationale in your comment & it means so much to me. 

I also arrived at a v similar conclusion; he is either a completely filthy lying cheating rat OR he is so stupid & spineless & inept at handling situations like this. Frankly, neither of them are appealing qualities or those I desire in a longterm partner. 

At present, I've put on hold all wedding planning. I took a week long break & have now returned to work. I'm slowly regaining my sanity. 

As for my bf, immediately after this scene; she kept blowing up his phone. He answered her call & asked her to never call again unless she wants to hear of a harassment suite. He then went on to block her & changed his mobile number. She tried to reach me him & me via her mother's phone; by then RO was instated. Blocked on all SM. All mutual friends know about this ordeal, hence everybody is wary of her presence. She also took off on holiday to Paris amidst this psychotic madness. 

As for my equation with bf; 

-he met me in person 2-3 times to explain himself

-he wrote me a long letter explaining himself 

-he continues to send me apology messages 

-he seems distraught; most of his communication starts with saying sorry, taking blame, understanding the mistake made, understanding my suffering, regret, some explanation for his action/inaction, fears, expression of future intentions, actions he has taken in the aftermath to solidify future intention, commitment to therapy to understand his behaviour. The usual shebang.  

-we don't communicate the usual how is your day/whats happening for dinner and such anymore. 

My head is still confused, my heart is still coming to terms. It's going to be a long recovery...

He will say all the right things now to get you back. They always do. I used to go back believing things will be different. They never were. Not just with one guy, but three or four of them. More then enough to learn a lesson well. I cannot say everyone is the same, but my experience has been such that I'd never buy someone's excuse over my own intuition and rational thinking. 
One useful thing to share that I read long time ago is this: if you want to see what someone is thinking and feeling, don't look at what they say, and sometimes don't even look at what they do. What you should pay attention to is what their motives for saying and doing things are. Often, even a sociopath will be so charming, will do all the right things to lure you in, to get something they want at work, to leave an impression as a great guy in the company... OK, an extreme to mention sociopath. But works with normal people as well. How do you know what someone is thinking and feeling? Develop an intuition about these things and don't ignore the signals your body is sending you. Body knows before mind does. Do you have psychosomatic issues you never had before? Is your breathing suffering? Do you go to the WC more often than normal? Do you have normal sleep? Is your period late? Is seeing him giving you a bad feeling in your stomach? Etc. We are all born with supreme intuition. Somewhere along the line we lose it due to learned social norms. Have you ever seen someone random and didn't like them immediately? There was just something off with them and you had no idea why. Then you start talking to them and you leave with an impression - oh, that's actually quite a nice person. Listen to your initial intuition.