What would happen if.

[Classicfiction]

Ok so this is purely hypothetical, but what would happen if women did just walk away from a man when they get a scent of another woman in the beginning of a relationship?

I'm talking about all women.  If it was just the norm and what you did when a guy did something that caused you to question whether he was all in or not.

Some examples would be:

- guy stops initiating calls = walk

- guy doesn't text for days = walk

- guy loses interest in sex = walk

- guy hides his phone in his pocket = walk

- guy says he's depressed and mopes around and there's no family issue or death = walk

- guy keeps taking you to the same restaurant when the same waitress is on shift and making eyes = walk

So I know people are gonna say that there could be many issues for not wanting sex and being depressed.  But chemically speaking, being in love is one of the greatest anti-depressants there is and having sex with someone you love is healing for both people.

If a guy is not wanting to have sex with you in the first 3 months and ignoring you but claims its depression, I really feel that 9 times out of 10 its another woman making him sad.

So what if women just said, ok dude.. clearly you are not experiencing the same warm fuzzies as me and Im gonna let you go try and get that waitress on your own.  What if EVERY woman did this? 

Do you think dudes would have to work harder to get that desired woman?

I mean.. why not let them build up their own ego enough to persue that 9/10 instead of using a woman in the meantime?

Let them go to that restaurant with their bros to see that waitress.  A wing man isnt going to get hurt by his buddy going after some woman.  But an "in the meantime girl" would.

What would this hypothetical world look like do you think?

[ExpatInItaly]

7 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

What would this hypothetical world look like do you think?

Kind of silly. 

It leaves no room for extenuating circumstances, no compassion, no flexibility in thinking. As you said, what you listed are certainly not always indicators of another woman. So it would be a bit absurd to just walk away immediately at the very sight of any of them. 

[introverted1]

I don't know your history, but it sounds like you have had some unhappy relationships where you were not treated well. Rather than spending time and energy on a hypothetical that  doesn't hold up, it might be more helpful to consider what constitutes healthy boundaries for you, and how you can enforce them in future.

[d0nnivain]

The hypothetical would look healthy.  In the beginning of a relationship if your needs are not being met by a new partner, it's OK to walk, whether you are a man or a woman.  Whatever the reason for the seeming lack of interest / effort, that is reason enough to evaluate if the new relationship is working for you.  When there are problems during the honeymoon phase when things should be easy, there is no sense in continuing.  

As things progress, there is more reason to be supportive & see if you can work through things with a long term partner.  

[smackie9]

Anyone who starts pushing me away gets the boot no matter what. It shows me they lack coping skills (if the excuses are legit). This doesn't sit well with me. I haven't got the time to play games, or be someones psychiatrist. I want healthy happy fun reliable.

[Classicfiction]

16 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

The hypothetical would look healthy.  In the beginning of a relationship if your needs are not being met by a new partner, it's OK to walk, whether you are a man or a woman.  Whatever the reason for the seeming lack of interest / effort, that is reason enough to evaluate if the new relationship is working for you.  When there are problems during the honeymoon phase when things should be easy, there is no sense in continuing.  

As things progress, there is more reason to be supportive & see if you can work through things with a long term partner.  

Yes I think so too.  The honeymoon phase should be easy and not create a sense of self doubt for either person.

As far as compassion goes @ExpatInItaly,  don't you like to be close with your partner when you're going through something? Thats what a partner is there for right?  If your partner is feeling down and you go to give them a hug and tell them you're there for them... and the result of that is them pushing you away and ignoring you, you should be concerned, in my opinion.

And I did say, if there is no extenuating circumstances, just out of the blue the guy suddenly starts giving you the cold shoulder.  And personally, I've experienced situations where the guy used something as an excuse.

I just imagine that if guys started with the slow fade and bread cumbs early on and women were like ok, this isnt the right man for me.  If women did not respond to breadcrumbs and just walked away... would that prevent broken hearts and wasted time?

[introverted1]

33 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

Yes I think so too.  The honeymoon phase should be easy and not create a sense of self doubt for either person.

 

We see posts on here all the time from people who have so much baggage that they sabotage their budding relationships by seeing things that are not there (or not seeing things that are there) or not understanding how their own actions and responses factor into things.

So while I agree that the honeymoon phase between two emotionally healthy adults should not create a sense of self-doubt, there are those for whom doubt is created due to factors other than the dynamic between the two people in the potential relationship.

[Gaeta]

I agree with you ** at the beginning of a relationship ** none of this should be happening. All that you have listed are symptoms of lack of interest on his part. You should not stick around expecting this man should work harder, you move to a better man that has a bigger interest in you. 

[SumGuy]

Who says it is hypothetical.  Plenty of people walk based on that stuff, men and women.   Women do that stuff to.  Perhaps it is more about compatibility.  If a man does those things and it is not for you, walk, there are women who do the same and may (for example) love a man that doesn't text them for days.  What you call passion/connection they call it clingy/needy.

In short, the hypothetical of if everyone in the world just acted like me and how I like people to act...probably never ends well but would make for a very good short story.

[Classicfiction]

2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Who says it is hypothetical.  Plenty of people walk based on that stuff, men and women.   Women do that stuff to.  Perhaps it is more about compatibility.  If a man does those things and it is not for you, walk, there are women who do the same and may (for example) love a man that doesn't text them for days.  What you call passion/connection they call it clingy/needy.

In short, the hypothetical of if everyone in the world just acted like me and how I like people to act...probably never ends well but would make for a very good short story.

So if it starts out with texts/calls spaced out over days, I don't necessarily think thats a red flag.  But if it starts out hot and heavy with continuous texts and calls and then over a period of months dwindles, thats probably not a great sign in my opinion.

Whenever I find myself taking the initiative and the guy acts passively and is cool talking to me when I reach out, but doesnt reach out himself anymore, thats just not gonna work for me.

[flitzanu]

it's quite devaluing of depression.  having a gf or having sex doesn't magically make depression or mental health issues go away.

[d0nnivain]

Hot & heavy is not sustainable long term.  People have lives & can't be glued to the phone.  If somebody was blowing up your phone initially but now has cooled to a more sedate pace that is not terrible   

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

So I know people are gonna say that there could be many issues for not wanting sex and being depressed.  But chemically speaking, being in love is one of the greatest anti-depressants there is and having sex with someone you love is healing for both people.

This does not mean that depressed people want to have sex, OP. 

Nor does it necessarily mean they are cheating. 

[Blind-Sided]

Well........  since you are making it so B&W... if I was in a new relationship, and a girl had that kid of attitude, when she really doesn't know me yet... she wouldn't have time to "Walk"... she would get "The Boot". LOL

OK, with that said... early in a relationship... 

1) You don't know if the other person is multi dating or not.  So the majority of it is just silly.

2) If the guy is obviously looking over/interested in other girls (like the waitress comment)  then you would be stupid to hang around anyway. 

3) Life can't be so B&W.  Until you know someone... you can't judge.

4) I don't call anyone any more... unless I need details that a txt can't handle. (SO that's a dumb point)

5) Sex... well... people have different drives.  I'm 49, and my GF is 28.  If it was up to her... it would be 3 times a day.

6) Why is this just women?   Why does it need to sound like guys are the only people who do this.  I've know A LOT of girls who were more of a "Player" than the guys I know. 

Anyway... my random 2 cents... take it for what it's worth. 

[Classicfiction]

28 minutes ago, Blind-Sided said:

Well........  since you are making it so B&W... if I was in a new relationship, and a girl had that kid of attitude, when she really doesn't know me yet... she wouldn't have time to "Walk"... she would get "The Boot". LOL

OK, with that said... early in a relationship... 

1) You don't know if the other person is multi dating or not.  So the majority of it is just silly.

2) If the guy is obviously looking over/interested in other girls (like the waitress comment)  then you would be stupid to hang around anyway. 

3) Life can't be so B&W.  Until you know someone... you can't judge.

4) I don't call anyone any more... unless I need details that a txt can't handle. (SO that's a dumb point)

5) Sex... well... people have different drives.  I'm 49, and my GF is 28.  If it was up to her... it would be 3 times a day.

6) Why is this just women?   Why does it need to sound like guys are the only people who do this.  I've know A LOT of girls who were more of a "Player" than the guys I know. 

Anyway... my random 2 cents... take it for what it's worth. 

Is it really black and white though?  Shouldnt there be SOME kind of way that women can know whether or not the dude they're talking to who's 49 isn't talking to a 28 yr old on the other line... and here she is at 45 wondering why she's gotta call you to have a convo?

[Classicfiction]

Seriously @Blind-Sided, if women don't have some personal boundaries, they can easily find themselves being used while a man takes his time to woo another woman that he's more interested in.  And that DOES waste a woman's time.

I say women, because its just much more common for women to desire monogamy and commitment at a certain point in a relationship.

[mark clemson]

Main problems I see with this "philosophy" is it doesn't account for honest, open multi-dating and/or misunderstandings. What if he's hiding his phone because of a voicemail about his hemorrhoid operation or something?

I guess if every woman did this multi-dating wouldn't be a thing, because doing so would nip relationships in the bud. Men would eventually feel like the scales weren't balanced and so would insist their women not multi-date as well.

I don't think it would (ultimately) improve actual compatibility, so the net effect IMO would likely be have any/all multi-dating be done very surreptitiously as it would essentially be re-categorized as cheating, this would be a de facto increase in the amount of dishonesty in relationships as no doubt some would choose to multi-date anyhow. It would also ultimately slow down the dating to relationship process in totality as fewer people would have a potentially compatible back-up date waiting in the wings when they figured out they and their date weren't compatible.

Edited September 13, 2021 by mark clemson

[Classicfiction]

9 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Main problems I see with this "philosophy" is it doesn't account for honest, open multi-dating and/or misunderstandings. What if he's hiding his phone because of a voicemail about his hemorrhoid operation or something?

I guess if every woman did this multi-dating wouldn't be a thing, because doing so would nip relationships in the bud. Men would eventually feel like the scales weren't balanced and so would insist their women not multi-date as well.

I don't think it would (ultimately) improve actual compatibility, so the net effect IMO would likely be have any/all multi-dating be done very surreptitiously as it would essentially be re-categorized as cheating, this would be a de facto increase in the amount of dishonesty in relationships as no doubt some would choose to multi-date anyhow. It would also ultimately slow down the dating to relationship process in totality as fewer people would have a potentially compatible back-up date waiting in the wings when they figured out they and their date weren't compatible.

Hahaha.. but why would she even feel like snooping if your phone wasn't hidden?

If I saw that my man had an appointment with a proctologist, I'd give him some aloe and an ice pack.

I do appreciate your perspective as well.  So would you suggest that women continue multidating longer in that first 3 months to keep themselves from getting hurt?

[mark clemson]

^^ Hmm. While the length of time multi-dating continues is going to vary by couple, I'd say 3 months is generally more than enough time to figure out whether you like someone enough to commit to monogamous dating with them.

So, I'd say if one or both partners strongly desires to continue multi-dating past that point (or some other "it's been long enough to decide" point, which will vary by couple) the relationship should be classified as "casual" or possibly "FWB" to avoid misunderstandings.

[Alpacalia]

I just found myself pondering similar.

To recap, I feel it all boils down to what you're comfortable with/uncomfortable with.

Some of the behaviors you suggest, such as hiding your phone, are obviously questionable.

Multi-dating is a big thing now a days so that obviously has to be taken into account.

[Classicfiction]

3 hours ago, Alpaca said:

I just found myself pondering similar.

To recap, I feel it all boils down to what you're comfortable with/uncomfortable with.

Some of the behaviors you suggest, such as hiding your phone, are obviously questionable.

Multi-dating is a big thing now a days so that obviously has to be taken into account.

Yeah I think the internet makes it even more difficult to know when someone's commited or not.  It adds a whole other layer to what everybody already deals with trying to keep a relationship together.

[Lotsgoingon]

Actually this is excellent dating advice. This is what men and women should do--pay attention to signs of ambivalence and hesitation and be ready to move on.  Stop all the story creation and justification and asking why and simply move on. 

This is excellent advice. 

What this would do is encourage perhaps more men (and women) to stop wasting the time of people they are not interested in. 

Now, some of these behaviors are only red flags to pause and be extremely skeptical. Sometimes it's fine to let an odd behavior pass once--but you red flag it so that you can be on the lookout for a repeat of that behavior. And when you see it again, you confront/or walk. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[Alpacalia]

45 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

Yeah I think the internet makes it even more difficult to know when someone's commited or not.  It adds a whole other layer to what everybody already deals with trying to keep a relationship together.

Probably because it helps to meet a much larger population than you would ordinarily meet. 

Plus, in the real world, the mating dance takes weeks to play out, but with online it's like "rocket ready, aim, zoom, blast off...zing!"

[Blind-Sided]

7 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

Shouldn't there be SOME kind of way that women can know whether or not the dude they're talking to who's 49 isn't talking to a 28 yr old on the other line... and here she is at 45 wondering why she's gotta call you to have a convo?

Early in the dating... no.  He owes no explanation.  He is free to date who he likes.  You can't expect a guy who is "Dating" to instantly just be committed before really getting to know a girl.  BUT, here again... this is more than just a "guy" thing.  When I take a girl out on a date (first few)  I don't ask her if she is seeing other people... BEACUSE I'M REALISTIC !!  I just assume she is.   Along with that, if I was on a date, and the girl was more interested in her phone than me... I would find a  way to cut the date short, and not talk to her again.  But, if you get mad because he doesn't want to talk about something he looked at on his screen, and hid it from you... and this is the first few dates... it's really none of your business. As @mark clemson said... maybe it's about a personal issue.  During my divorce... I had surgery on one of my testicles.  I wasn't going to talk about follow-up medical to my dates.  But it was funny when my current GF asked me about the scar.

Also, on the calling thing... Just read this forum... you get one girl saying he calls too much, and one saying he doesn't ever call.  And in both cases... it's been 24 hours. LOL.   It's all perception, and meshing with that other person.  If you expect a daily call... you better find a guy who likes to talk on the phone.  

7 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

1) Seriously @Blind-Sided, if women don't have some personal boundaries, they can easily find themselves being used while a man takes his time to woo another woman that he's more interested in.  And that DOES waste a woman's time.

2) I say women, because its just much more common for women to desire monogamy and commitment at a certain point in a relationship.

1) Sure, have boundaries... but when you make life B&W... you miss out, and you may turn off a good guy because it makes you look cold.   But... yes... a lot of people multi-date.  I don't.  But it's how life works. AND yes... this site is full of stories of women doing exactly that.  They will pine over a guy they like for YEARS waiting... but in the mean time, they date, and never really give the guy they are dating a chance.  OR, they get into a relationship... but as soon as the guy they like becomes free... they dump the guy they are with. 

2) No... you are diluting yourself thinking that. I've known a bunch of girls who like to fool around, and have multiple FWB. Then blow off the "Good Guy" for one reason or another. Just look in the "Other Man" section to see how many women are monogamous.   Heck... there's a thread from just a couple days ago where a woman was "Proud" of her self because she stopped her "Friend" from having sex with her, but they were drunk and naked in a hotel.  To me... that was already cheating.    Along with that... I have several female friends... who I've known since collage... and they are all on a verge of divorce, or have divorced, and all of them have cheated, or have an OM... or have a BF as they are doing the paperwork. 

Anyway... I know you will believe what you want... but the truth is... a few months in, and a hand full of dates... you can't expect the other person to not be seeing other people.  As said above... if you have been "Dating" for 3 months, you now have the right to talk about a committed relationship.   But... if the other person is giving you a bad feeling in your gut, like you can't trust them... then move on. It's as easy as that.  But you CAN NOT make it B&W, and make it like a textbook with a troubleshooting chart.

I wish you happiness in finding love. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Blind-Sided

[Classicfiction]

12 minutes ago, Blind-Sided said:

Early in the dating... no.  He owes no explanation.  He is free to date who he likes.  You can't expect a guy who is "Dating" to instantly just be committed before really getting to know a girl.  BUT, here again... this is more than just a "guy" thing.  When I take a girl out on a date (first few)  I don't ask her if she is seeing other people... BEACUSE I'M REALISTIC !!  I just assume she is.   Along with that, if I was on a date, and the girl was more interested in her phone than me... I would find a  way to cut the date short, and not talk to her again.  But, if you get mad because he doesn't want to talk about something he looked at on his screen, and hid it from you... and this is the first few dates... it's really none of your business. As @mark clemson said... maybe it's about a personal issue.  During my divorce... I had surgery on one of my testicles.  I wasn't going to talk about follow-up medical to my dates.  But it was funny when my current GF asked me about the scar.

Also, on the calling thing... Just read this forum... you get one girl saying he calls too much, and one saying he doesn't ever call.  And in both cases... it's been 24 hours. LOL.   It's all perception, and meshing with that other person.  If you expect a daily call... you better find a guy who likes to talk on the phone.  

1) Sure, have boundaries... but when you make life B&W... you miss out, and you may turn off a good guy because it makes you look cold.   But... yes... a lot of people multi-date.  I don't.  But it's how life works. AND yes... this site is full of stories of women doing exactly that.  They will pine over a guy they like for YEARS waiting... but in the mean time, they date, and never really give the guy they are dating a chance.  OR, they get into a relationship... but as soon as the guy they like becomes free... they dump the guy they are with. 

2) No... you are diluting yourself thinking that. I've known a bunch of girls who like to fool around, and have multiple FWB. Then blow off the "Good Guy" for one reason or another. Just look in the "Other Man" section to see how many women are monogamous.   Heck... there's a thread from just a couple days ago where a woman was "Proud" of her self because she stopped her "Friend" from having sex with her, but they were drunk and naked in a hotel.  To me... that was already cheating.    Along with that... I have several female friends... who I've known since collage... and they are all on a verge of divorce, or have divorced, and all of them have cheated, or have an OM... or have a BF as they are doing the paperwork. 

Anyway... I know you will believe what you want... but the truth is... a few months in, and a hand full of dates... you can't expect the other person to not be seeing other people.  As said above... if you have been "Dating" for 3 months, you now have the right to talk about a committed relationship.   But... if the other person is giving you a bad feeling in your gut, like you can't trust them... then move on. It's as easy as that.  But you CAN NOT make it B&W, and make it like a textbook with a troubleshooting chart.

I wish you happiness in finding love. 

Thank you.  I hope your testical is doing great as well.