Author liswil Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 Well that goes for some people posting on this thread, lis. But you know, there are others that are really waiting for you to be ready to accept things about yourself. Could you be more specific as to what you are referring to? So... anyway, apart from that... how are you feeling about MM at the moment? Any developments? I think that posting more about the situation here would just be similar to me taking a jog in a mine field. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 What say we gather all those posters who have wished me dead and apply the transactional analysis theory on them? What script are they following from childhood? It's rather scary how they turned out. I can't remember if you were one of them or not. It's a good point. You can't apply transactional analysis to just one person in a communication - you have to apply it to both. I haven't read every single one of the posts here, but if people have been wishing you dead then I'd guess that they're operating from either angry child or critical parent mode. I think we've all got different scripts in our heads. One person can switch from angry child to critical parent in a matter of minutes in a single argument. It's a case of having internalised things critical adults said to you when you were a child. You hear those things (when I say "you" I mean all of us) and repeat them to yourself. So if I make a mistake, I'll tell myself "God Lindya, you're so stupid!!! Don't you ever stop to think??" Then I might well go and do something else that's "stupid" - because the angry child in me is p1ssed off with the critical parent and wants to annoy her....even though the critical parent and the angry child are both part of the same person. Does that make any sense or do I just sound as if I've got multiple personality disorder? I suspect that you probably come down hard on yourself a lot of the time. A lot of people do - especially if they were given a lot of negative messages about themselves as a child. Again, when you do that you're being your own critical parent. In some ways, that critical parent in you might almost welcome support from other posters who are attacking you...because essentially they're agreeing with that part of you that keeps punishing yourself. Providing her with fuel to keep punishing the poor little kid inside you in the future. That child in you that feels oppressed by all the judgements and lashes out against them, the critical parent snaps back - and the hurtful conversations go on and on..both in the internal dialogues you have with yourself, and with conversations you have with other people. It sounds as if you're already familiar with TA, so I might be teaching my gran to suck eggs here...but I think the difficult thing for all of us is to get into "adult" mode. So for instance... A - Why do you always slam the door? It gives me a headache!(critical parent) B - Why the hell are you always nagging me? (angry child) C - because you just won't take a telling so I have to keep nagging (critical parent) Would become A - Why do you always slam the door (critical parent) B - I'll shut the door more quietly so that you don't get a headache (adult) A - Thanks, sorry I snapped. I didn't mean to (adult) Link to post Share on other sites
Author liswil Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 I haven't read every single one of the posts here, but if people have been wishing you dead then I'd guess that they're operating from either angry child or critical parent mode. I'd sure hate to have parents like that.... And yes, I've been wished dead several times on here and posters have told me they'd be glad to see it happen, I've been called unloveable and unlikeable, etc....... But they get offended if I say anything back to them. Ironic, huh? It sounds as if you're already familiar with TA Yeah I'm familiar with it and have a background in Psychology (amongst other things) as well. No, I don't think I welcomed those who were downright cruel to me here. I'm not looking to reaffirm any negatives beliefs about myself that I may have. If that were the case, I'd be disregarding posters such as SamiD. Yeah, I did have a lot of negative messages in childhood but I'm not trying to remain there. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 No, I don't think I welcomed those who were downright cruel to me here. I'm not looking to reaffirm any negatives beliefs about myself that I may have. If that were the case, I'd be disregarding posters such as SamiD. I don't think you welcomed the critical voices, but I think we absorb the criticism that we get as children. Even when we're alone, those critical adult voices can still play around in our head...and if they can find fresh material to use (eg some of the things you've read on this board) then they will. Yeah, I did have a lot of negative messages in childhood but I'm not trying to remain there. I wouldn't suggest that you want to. In fact you're probably making concerted efforts to move on from that - but it's difficult. We can't just make painful memories disappear, and many people are engaged in a long and difficult struggle - even as adults - to prevent bad memories from controlling them. You've obviously gone through a bad time lately, and if you're anything like me then at times like that all sorts of bad things from the past come flooding back to you. So if a romantic relationship breaks down, you don't just hear that person saying "you're not the one for me"...you hear the voice of every person you ever met who made you feel that you weren't good enough for them to stick around. Everyone will get that message from someone from time to time. How well we cope with that message probably depends on whether we're able to combat that inner voice saying "not good enough" with one that says "more than good enough...just not necessarily suited to being with every person I wish I could be with." That's why I think someone who's got a really good grounding in cognitive behavioural therapy could be quite helpful in helping you change your "internal script". It might be, however, that you need to spend quite a long time first telling that person about the difficult memories that trouble you - so that they can get a better picture of who you are, and why certain things happening in the here and now might be particularly difficult for you to cope with. Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 And you know she came back again and again to 'offend people'? That's what her replies look like. Have you never really needed help? Yes, many times. I asked for it, took out of it what I thought would work for me, thanked for it and worked hard on my self to get there. Does a person really have the SOLE choice to accept what's given or go away and kill themselves??? You missed my point. If you don't agree/like the advice, I have the choice to ignore it. Lis comes back to attack the person whos advice she didn't like, picks out of the post what's 'convenient' and feels sorry for herself. Can you hear what you're saying? Hear and respect my advice or feck off? See above No one has to listen to anyone's advice. Now you got my point! Get over yourself and your arrogant assumptions about the simplicity of human reaction. If you just read my replies more carefully, you would not say that. I am not the one offending and 'yelling' at people here. As I see posting here is like beating my head against the wall, I will not reply anymore. I will look for your reply though, if you are planning on replying. I understand completely that people are different and deal with situations different. I wish you both good luck. Maybe you can become friends; there are never enough good friends in one's life. Link to post Share on other sites
Author liswil Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 As I see posting here is like beating my head against the wall, If you're looking for any volunteers to help.....I'm open...... Hmmm.....I guess that might be considered offensive, huh? Well lemme tell ya.......I was starting to feel a little bit better today when you happened upon the thread with YOUR negative attitude. (which btw, you were accusing me of.....interesting......) Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I was starting to feel a little bit better today when you happened upon the thread with YOUR negative attitude. (which btw, you were accusing me of.....interesting......) It's great that you've been starting to feel a bit better - so really try to get back on track with that. Recognise the things that are setting you back. I know it's tempting to respond to criticism, but you're getting caught up in responding to it and that will hold up your progress. Choosing not to respond to criticism doesn't mean that it's accurate or that the other person has "won". It just means that you're not letting negative external factors interfere with your focus. Like playing tennis. The top players at Wimbledon are totally focused on their game. If someone in the audience were to shout something derogatory at them, they'd recognise that as a potential saboteur and they would shut it out in order to retain their focus. That doesn't mean the critic has won. Far from it. It only means the critic's strategy has been ineffective in its aim of making the player lose his concentration. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I can't imagine the hell that it must be to post on an open forum when you're so in need of something specific. I can't imagine how that would have affected me when I was looking for help in my life. All I can say is that lis is stronger than I ever was when I was in that BLACK time of my life...and that I have every confidence in her being able to get through this. All those people who post here saying you couldn't care less if she dies or kills herself (and those of you who haven't read that, read back through the thread, there has been more than one instance of that)... get a grip. NONE of us are perfect. NONE of us can say that we're never going to be in this ****e situation. However blind someone is to help reaching out to them... and however much you might disbelieve in their understanding of a situation... what makes you so sure of yourself and your opinion that you'd say those words to another human being? Link to post Share on other sites
Author liswil Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 It's great that you've been starting to feel a bit better - so really try to get back on track with that. Recognise the things that are setting you back. I know it's tempting to respond to criticism, but you're getting caught up in responding to it and that will hold up your progress. Choosing not to respond to criticism doesn't mean that it's accurate or that the other person has "won". It just means that you're not letting negative external factors interfere with your focus. Like playing tennis. The top players at Wimbledon are totally focused on their game. If someone in the audience were to shout something derogatory at them, they'd recognise that as a potential saboteur and they would shut it out in order to retain their focus. That doesn't mean the critic has won. Far from it. It only means the critic's strategy has been ineffective in its aim of making the player lose his concentration. I totally agree but sometimes I just have to say what's on my mind. But I'm not making my focus fighting those types of posters. You know...the ones who do what they're accusing me of doing....? They're more of an interesting diversion---sort of like watching cartoons. See---they kicked me when I was down. They figured I was weak and couldn't "fight" back so they (some posters) took advantage of it. They THOUGHT they were dealing with a person they could kick around. Now, I'm a person who has very little mean spiritness in me---never have. However, if people seem adamant on kicking me, I'll tolerate it for awhile---usually too long. And I don't even have to tolerate it, because I have the verbal ability to knock them down flat. So, when it reaches a point--and I'm feeling like it---I will knock them down flat. So---right now---they can fling anything they want my way. I'm in the mood for cartoons today. Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Coco Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I have to agree with you there. I couldn't imagine thinking such a thing...let alone saying that to someone (even if I didn't like them!) I think they were trying to get Lis to "snap out of it" (kind of like I was) but in my opinion that's cruel and mean. Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Coco Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Some of the people who you thought were "kicking you when you were down" really were not doing that. If you took it that way, then you took it that way...doesn't mean that's what they were actually doing...I know in my case I wasn't and you thought that. It's ok, though. You're entitled to your opinion. Glad to hear you're doing better. Link to post Share on other sites
Author liswil Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 I can't imagine the hell that it must be to post on an open forum when you're so in need of something specific. I can't imagine how that would have affected me when I was looking for help in my life. All I can say is that lis is stronger than I ever was when I was in that BLACK time of my life...and that I have every confidence in her being able to get through this. All those people who post here saying you couldn't care less if she dies or kills herself (and those of you who haven't read that, read back through the thread, there has been more than one instance of that)... get a grip. NONE of us are perfect. NONE of us can say that we're never going to be in this ****e situation. However blind someone is to help reaching out to them... and however much you might disbelieve in their understanding of a situation... what makes you so sure of yourself and your opinion that you'd say those words to another human being? Their reaction is very primitive. It's always sad to see the base level that human beings can sink to. You'd think that way of thinking went out with the gladiators. Unfortunately not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author liswil Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 Some of the people who you thought were "kicking you when you were down" really were not doing that. If you took it that way, then you took it that way...doesn't mean that's what they were actually doing...I know in my case I wasn't and you thought that. It's ok, though. You're entitled to your opinion. Glad to hear you're doing better. I think the people who kicked me when I was down know who you are. If not, then they need a reality check. This does not, by ANY means imply that I felt that anyone with whom I disagreed with was kicking me while I was down. Just wanted to clarify that for you. Never said I was doing better. (btw, for any OCD or idiot savant posters out there, this is post #263) Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Coco Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I think the people who kicked me when I was down know who you are. If not, then you need a reality check. This does not, by ANY means imply that I felt that anyone with whom I disagreed with was kicking me while I was down. Just wanted to clarify that for you. Never said I was doing better. WOW! You sure did say you were doing better...scroll up. You'll even argue THAT! My, oh my. YOu don't need to clarify anything for ME, lis...clarify it for yourself. I know what my intentions were and because you didn't agree it meant I was kicking you when you were down. I'm not going to engage in an argument with you. Sorry, you're no longer feeling better since your post saying you did. Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Coco Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Originally Posted by liswil I was starting to feel a little bit better today That was 30 mins ago...I guess things changed since then. Have a wonderful evening. Link to post Share on other sites
Author liswil Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 WOW! You sure did say you were doing better...scroll up. You'll even argue THAT! My, oh my. Some posters earlier were making me feel better for the moment. This does infer that I am feeling better overall. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Feeling better for the moment is a great thing, lis. You know there are people posting on this thread not because they want an argument, but because they really feel for you? Yes? Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Coco Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Some posters earlier were making me feel better for the moment. This does infer that I am feeling better overall. Well, of course NOT dear...what was I thinking?! Link to post Share on other sites
Author liswil Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 Feeling better for the moment is a great thing, lis. You know there are people posting on this thread not because they want an argument, but because they really feel for you? Yes? Yes, SOME are. Link to post Share on other sites
Author liswil Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 what was I thinking?! I don't think we have that kind of time.... Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Yes, SOME are. Well that's all you can expect in this life, and on a forum. Most of what you will receive isn't useful, and some outright hostile. Your task is to sift the wheat from the chaff..? Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I don't think we have that kind of time.... LMAO You two crack me up at times. Link to post Share on other sites
Author liswil Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 LMAO You two crack me up at times. Yeah but I came to this place because I'm not doing too well. Only now I can no longer post here---except just as entertainment. It was really the only place I had to go to but it was a mistake. There's more going on but I have nowhere to go now. I really hesitate to post even that because some poster will come back with some nasty reply to that too. I hope people don't do this to anyone else who is in my shoes. Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Coco Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I don't think we have that kind of time.... Cute. Hey, I told you if beating up on me makes you feel better, go ahead. Nothing else worked! Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Coco Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yeah but I came to this place because I'm not doing too well. Only now I can no longer post here---except just as entertainment. It was really the only place I had to go to but it was a mistake. There's more going on but I have nowhere to go now. I really hesitate to post even that because some poster will come back with some nasty reply to that too. I hope people don't do this to anyone else who is in my shoes. Why don't you get it off your chest and just ignore those of us who annoy you? What's so hard about that? Link to post Share on other sites
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