Normal or abnormal

[Classicfiction]

Hey guys,

So I've been doing a lot of soul searching based on my history of unsuccessful relationships and really coming to grips with the fact that at least some of it has gotta be on my end.  But I'm just unclear about how much.  

I decided to look at my reactions to some of the situations that caused the relationships to fail and see if maybe had I reacted differently... could things have turned out differently.  I'll probably post about more than one of these, but one that kinda stood out was this:

I dated a guy for about a year who had a teenaged daughter.  I did not meet her for the majority of that year, but when I did a few things happened...

a)  the girl made blatant comments/jokes to her dad about sex with me there having just met her.

b) the three of us watched a movie together the second or third time I hung out with them.  During the movie he had his hand on my feet and reached over to hold his daughter's hand. (The girl was 15 btw)

c) at the end of the movie the girl randomly storms off to her room and he runs after her.  I went into his room to wait for him.  I was sitting there for maybe 20 mins... and realizing man, it seemed awfully quiet.  Got up and walked past her room, noticed the light was off... could not hear anything, not even whispering.  Walked into the living room stood there for a minute.  Walked quietly past the door, heard nothing... light still off.

I think he was in there maybe 30 minutes.

So at the time, my reaction was just like no.  This ain't gonna work for me.

But now, one thing that I think is... well I grew up without my own dad, so maybe my interpretation of it was colored by my lack of personal father daughter relationship.

And so yeah, I would like to know, do you guys think that scenario with his daughter was normal or not?

 

[Miss Spider]

Totally not normal. I feel like maybe you have a pattern of being attracted to jerks. And I have to say, when I see this happen it usually is for one of two reasons 

 

A l. There is something pathological causing them to be attracted to people who mistreat them. This is usually is related to something in early development

 

B. They are dating “out of their league” ( generally speaking),   so the people they are usually attracted to tend to devalue them 

[Classicfiction]

28 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Totally not normal. I feel like maybe you have a pattern of being attracted to jerks. And I have to say, when I see this happen it usually is for one of two reasons 

 

A l. There is something pathological causing them to be attracted to people who mistreat them. This is usually is related to something in early development

 

B. They are dating “out of their league” ( generally speaking),   so the people they are usually attracted to tend to devalue them 

Ok, so what about it seems abnormal to you?  I suppose I've been told in situations like the one I described, that I'm reading into things or overreacting.

I've gotten to a place where its hard to trust my own instincts.

[Miss Spider]

14 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

Ok, so what about it seems abnormal to you?  I suppose I've been told in situations like the one I described, that I'm reading into things or overreacting.

I've gotten to a place where its hard to trust my own instincts.

B would seems innocent if not for b and C which seems abnormal. Together, it all sounds very creepy and I do hope the child is ok. .When you get a vibe, go with it and get yourself out of there. Your intuition is there for a reason

Edited August 31, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Classicfiction]

Yeah, I hope she's ok too.

[Miss Spider]

Xxxx

Edited August 31, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Miss Spider]

I wonder if you can contact authorities to investigate 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Mrin]

Single dad here of two teenager daughters (16 and 18). Just going to chime in:

A: I raised them in a sex positive house so some mild banter about sexual topics wouldn't be out of the ordinary these days. 

B: I'm very affectionate with them so a hand squeeze while watching a movie is pretty normal. But holding hands the entire thing? Naw.

C that is kinda weird. I know when my girls were younger ( 0-11 ish) I'd have to snuggle with them to get them to go to sleep. And sometimes I'd fall asleep (pretty sure every parent has done this a few hundred times). I can remember one time my daughter waking me up and telling me to stop snoring and go to my own bed. lol.

But this doesn't sound like an "I can't sleep" situation and regardless of what was going on he should have made sure you didn't feel abandoned. 

If I had to hazard a guess I'd suspect that there wasn't anything pedo going on. But rather he was a father who didn't establish good boundaries and had a high strung daughter who demanded tons of attention and probably viewed you as a threat. So yeah it probably wouldn't have worked out anyhow.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Mrin

[chillii]

Yeah , l doubt that. She was upset so he stayed with her, l use to stay with my daughter all the time until she fell asleep if she was upset. We'd talk and she'd get drowsy ,nod off. Sometimes l'd fall asleep by then too. Divorce is that damn hard on kids and new partners 10 fold it with many. She didn't want you around he was well aware of that. Probably not even personal it could be anyone that's not her mum. And hell yeah , they get really weird if we're affectionate to other women , such funny little creatures l use t think jezuz my own daughter at 12 was like a w . She'd literally watch to see if l looked at someone , she'd block any natural convo with female strangers , she was so funny. She's not like that now 20, loves my partner actually.

Her comment about sex well , sounded odd the way you say it butttt, tell ya what. The stuff out of mouths with some of my d's friends even at 10 or 11, nothing would surprise me from a 15yr old.

Edited August 31, 2021 by chillii

[ExpatInItaly]

4 hours ago, Mrin said:

If I had to hazard a guess I'd suspect that there wasn't anything pedo going on. But rather he was a father who didn't establish good boundaries and had a high strung daughter who demanded tons of attention and probably viewed you as a threat.

That is my read on it too. 

She definitely didn't like having you around, OP, and he has some pretty strange boundaries with her. I think it's a dynamic you don't want to be a part of anyway. 

[chillii]

ps , so did you talk to him op or just dump him ?

Edited August 31, 2021 by chillii

[Classicfiction]

5 hours ago, chillii said:

ps , so did you talk to him op or just dump him ?

At the time, when he came back in the room, I felt awkward and he could tell.  He asked me what was wrong and I asked him why he was in her room so long with the lights off.

He said, she was having a problem and needed to talk and that she was his daughter so don't insinuate anything.  So I dropped it.  Then just kinda backed off after that

[glows]

I’d leave this and don’t second guess yourself. 

[Classicfiction]

I really really liked the guy, but I did pick up on some weird vibes.  It felt like he was almost capitolizing on her feeling jealous that I was there..

but there are guys on here saying its all pretty normal.  I could imagine that girls do feel protective of their dads and all that.  I remember thinking if she's going to taunt her dad with sex talk and hes going to run into her room every night, Im just not that much of a superhero to make it right

 Buuuuut, at the same time, every guy I date seems to have some major flaw that makes me run and clearly not every guy is a monster.  Idk, still confuzled by my emotions/reactions

[Classicfiction]

7 minutes ago, glows said:

I’d leave this and don’t second guess yourself. 

Can you expand on why you think that?

[glows]

15 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

Can you expand on why you think that?

There was something about this situation that didn't appeal to you. Trust your instincts a little more. Of all the experiences and relationships, why pick this one? I ask out of curiosity. Is it because you felt he was a good person overall and you didn't feel justified moving on? Or, does this have to do with not having a father/daughter bond? 

 

[Mrin]

27 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

Idk, still confuzled by my emotions/reactions

Sure thing. So, in the interests of diving deeper into you psyche let's assume everything was on the up and up, let me ask you two questions:

1) was it the affection/perceived inappropriateness that triggered your reaction? If so, then there could be some truth to your statement about not having a father around growing up and thus not having any sort of model for father-daughter behavior.

2) or was it feeling like a third wheel or an outsider that triggered your reaction? This is actually super common especially with non-parents dating single parents. You coming to an already established dynamic and feel like you are either intruding or perceived as a threat. This can be confusing and very off putting especially for non-parents. 

[Mrin]

7 hours ago, chillii said:

such funny little creatures l use t think jezuz my own daughter at 12 was like a w . She'd literally watch to see if l looked at someone , she'd block any natural convo with female strangers , she was so funny.

So true. I dated a woman with a 9 year old son. When I first was around them as a family unit he loved it... Until I got within 3 feet of his mom. Like if I sat next to her on the couch (without even touching her) he would wedge himself in between us. Even his mom didn't pick up on what he was doing. When I pointed it out she was like "he really likes you and wants to be near you". I'm like, "no he's using his body as a human shield!" Recognizing that I just backed off made sure I kept my space and he warmed up to me pretty quickly. 

[Pumpernickel]

15 minutes ago, Mrin said:

Recognizing that I just backed off made sure I kept my space and he warmed up to me pretty quickly

Awe that's awesome. And compassionate. And smart. But it's probably because you're a dad, so you know what to do and how to act in these situations.

(According to my best female friend, single moms are most turned off by (potenial) boyfriends/new partners who compete with/against the child. She has an ex who was totally jealous of her pre-teen. Turn-off.)  

[Classicfiction]

16 minutes ago, Mrin said:

Sure thing. So, in the interests of diving deeper into you psyche let's assume everything was on the up and up, let me ask you two questions:

1) was it the affection/perceived inappropriateness that triggered your reaction? If so, then there could be some truth to your statement about not having a father around growing up and thus not having any sort of model for father-daughter behavior.

2) or was it feeling like a third wheel or an outsider that triggered your reaction? This is actually super common especially with non-parents dating single parents. You coming to an already established dynamic and feel like you are either intruding or perceived as a threat. This can be confusing and very off putting especially for non-parents. 

Honestly, it was feeling like there was some boundaries being crossed.  What bothered me the most was that they were so quiet in her room.  He said they were talking but I didnt hear anything after the first few minutes they were in there.  So what was he doing?  Rubbing his 15 yr old daughter's back?

And if so, is that normal?

But I've also talked at length to another single dad who told me his 13 yr old daughter still sleeps with him and he asked me if I thought it was ok.

I have no idea if thats ok but it makes me feel funky.  Why does it make me feel funky? I have no idea

 

[mark clemson]

No, (c) does NOT sound normal at all. Possibly the daughter has some sort of psychological issue which made turning off the lights for an important conversation about accepting you (or whatever it was about) helpful.  Barring that, I'd say you have to consider worst-case scenarios, unfortunately.

If hypothetically I was dating a woman with a teenage son and something like this happened, I'd be out.

Edited August 31, 2021 by mark clemson

[Classicfiction]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

No, (c) does NOT sound normal at all. Possibly the daughter has some sort of psychological issue which made turning off the lights for an important conversation about accepting you (or whatever it was about) helpful.  Barring that, I'd say you have to consider worst-case scenarios, unfortunately.

If hypothetically I was dating a woman with a teenage son and something like this happened, I'd be out.

 

10 hours ago, chillii said:

Yeah , l doubt that. She was upset so he stayed with her, l use to stay with my daughter all the time until she fell asleep if she was upset. We'd talk and she'd get drowsy ,nod off. Sometimes l'd fall asleep by then too. Divorce is that damn hard on kids and new partners 10 fold it with many. She didn't want you around he was well aware of that. Probably not even personal it could be anyone that's not her mum. And hell yeah , they get really weird if we're affectionate to other women , such funny little creatures l use t think jezuz my own daughter at 12 was like a w . She'd literally watch to see if l looked at someone , she'd block any natural convo with female strangers , she was so funny. She's not like that now 20, loves my partner actually.

Her comment about sex well , sounded odd the way you say it butttt, tell ya what. The stuff out of mouths with some of my d's friends even at 10 or 11, nothing would surprise me from a 15yr old.

So I guess this is why I have such a hard time determining whats ok and what isnt.  
 

There are people surrounding me in my everyday life who have told me that my reactions to stuff like that situation are overblown and that I should relax and not be bothered.  For the most part, I don't have anyone who validates my feelings, mostly they tell me Im overreacting.

At the time, I was thinking if my stepdad had been in my room like that, I would freak out.  But stepdads are different than dads

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

 I remember thinking if she's going to taunt her dad with sex talk

What exactly was she saying, OP?

[glows]

I don't think you are overreacting. You reacted appropriately and stopped seeing that man. Most people however would move on with their lives and not even think twice about something like this. It didn't feel right so it's finished and done. That you are cycling back and have persistent thoughts about this would suggest some other issues at play. You didn't have a strong relationship with your parent so I can see that there's not enough reference point for you and you're unsure.

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by glows

[Lauriebell82]

15 hours ago, Mrin said:

. 

If I had to hazard a guess I'd suspect that there wasn't anything pedo going on. But rather he was a father who didn't establish good boundaries and had a high strung daughter who demanded tons of attention and probably viewed you as a threat. So yeah it probably wouldn't have worked out anyhow.

This was my thought too. Poor boundaries. Abuse victims often display VERY specific signs/symptoms that something is amiss (sexually permissive behavior/substance abuse issues, eager to please others, ect). This just sounds like a single father having difficulty helping his daughter cope with his relationship. This can pose a challenge for sure but nothing that can't be worked through! 

I commend you for looking at your past relationship failures to see what you could do differently. My advice is that if you are going to date men with children, be prepared for some challenges. You may be 2nd priority and they may have problems sorting out these challenges. It doesn't men however, you always have to walk away from these situations. If you can feel that you can talk to your partner about how to work together, then that is the best match all around. 

I am a divorced mother of two boys and can atest it can be a challenge to date when you have children. I have been in a serious relationship for 4 years (also with a divorced father) and we have worked though a lot of the challenges that come with dating with children. Its not always easy. But we make it work by always keeping the lines of communication open both with our own kids and each other!