StringsAndSticks Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 Hello all! Just here with questions on where on Earth I go with this situation. I work a second job part-time at a small bar/restaurant, and there’s a woman I work with, Jen (names will be changed from here on out). Now, I’ve known Jen for about 8 years now, and worked with her for 3. We’ve always gotten along very well throughout the time we’ve known each other, and I’ve always loved our impromptu deep conversations that would sometimes happen after we would close up and just be hanging out talking after work. She’s also just an absolute sweetheart, not to mention, quite beautiful. It also doesn’t exactly hurt when she tells me that I’m sweet, or amazing, or that I “check all the boxes” (whatever that means). Anyway, I never really “pursued” anything with her, because, well A: I’m NOT a ladies man in any sense of the word, so never really thought she’d even be interested in me. And, B: You can probably see where this is going…. She’s got a boyfriend. Now, personally, I’ve never met her boyfriend, and I don’t know him personally, so I'm not gonna trash him. But, EVERYBODY at the restaurant who knows him, HATES him, and say that he’s verbally and emotionally abusive to her (she’s actually told ME a couple of stories here and there, and I’ll never forget one day after we worked together, her crying with her head on my chest saying “I don’t want to be his mother.”). I guess that’s on top of the fact that he hasn’t had a job in years, and just smokes drugs all day. Just a few weeks ago, we were at the owners’ (of the restaurant we work at) wedding, and Karen (one of our former co-workers) says to me, “Steve, why don’t you make Jen your girlfriend? Because, her boyfriend sucks and you have a crush on her.” Now, normally I would have been shocked to hear that, except she was the third person to tell me something similar…. THAT DAY. Anyway, I could describe some of the flirty exchanges that we’ve had, but I’m trying to keep this short and to the point. So, what do I do here?! I feel like a cartoon character with the demon on one shoulder, and the angel on the other. I mean, I would LIKE to pursue this and see where it goes, but every time I think that way, I always remind myself that, even if she may not be in the best situation, at the end of the day, she is still involved with someone, and it wouldn’t be right. So, what do I do?? Do I just wait it out to see what happens with her and her boyfriend? Do I back off on the flirting and bantering? HELP! Thank you!
vla1120 Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 When she says you "check all the boxes", I suspect it means you're what most women look for in a man? I don't think there is anything wrong with letting her know you're interested. However, you wouldn't want her to automatically jump from him to you. Have you ever asked her why she remains with him when he doesn't hold down a job, and he's apparently a jerk? Does he live with her? Does she feel "stuck" with him? How long have they been together? I guarantee, if people are asking you why you haven't made Jen your girlfriend, they're asking her the same types of questions. I don't think there is anything wrong with making your feelings known, then stepping back and giving her room and time to think about it.
Author StringsAndSticks Posted August 20, 2021 Author Posted August 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, vla1120 said: When she says you "check all the boxes", I suspect it means you're what most women look for in a man? I don't think there is anything wrong with letting her know you're interested. However, you wouldn't want her to automatically jump from him to you. Have you ever asked her why she remains with him when he doesn't hold down a job, and he's apparently a jerk? Does he live with her? Does she feel "stuck" with him? How long have they been together? I guarantee, if people are asking you why you haven't made Jen your girlfriend, they're asking her the same types of questions. I don't think there is anything wrong with making your feelings known, then stepping back and giving her room and time to think about it. Thank you so much for the reply, @vla1120. Yes, when she says "check all the boxes," that is what she was referring to. Although, I don't really think that I do. I mean, I'm not exactly the hottest guy, and I'm certainly not rich. Well, you see, the thing is.... That whole "letting her know I'm interested," I've heard is a bad idea and that it ruins your chances with a woman. Yes, you're right, I wouldn't want her to necessarily jump right from him to me.... I have actually thought quite a lot about that, and I would want to give her the time she needed to adjust to her "new" situation. I personally haven't asked her why she stays with him, because I don't wanna get all up in her biz and everything, you know? But, the owners where we work have, and they've had MANY discussions with her, because they love her and don't want to see her being brought down by him. They (the owners) have had many quite choice words to describe Jen's boyfriend that I won't repeat here, hahaha. And they've actually tried to "talk me up" to Jen on numerous occasions as well, which I'm thankful to them for that, of course. Basically, from the conversations I've had with the owners when it's just them and me hanging around after work, Jen has been treated poorly her whole life, from her dad, two of her three brothers (one of her brothers is actually a real decent guy), her past (and current) boyfriends, and it's kinda all she knows. And she says she'd feel bad about breaking up with him. Yes, they live together at his parents' house, but now that his parents sold their house, they only have so many days before they have to leave, so Jen has been alternating between her parents' house and his parents' house, and her boyfriend has been trying to find an apartment I guess, but from what I hear, it's been kinda hard because, he's never had a job, and has no credit. I'm not sure if she feels "stuck" with him, but he has told her that if she left him he would kill himself. Which, to ME, that's not love.... That's manipulation. They've been together for, about 5 or 6 years, I think. Yes, the owners and a couple of our co-workers have asked her the same types of questions. Nothing Earth-shattering, just stuff like "why don't you go out with 'Steve?'" Well, the problem with making my feelings known (which she probably most likely knows already), is again, it might ruin my chances, and also since we work together, I wouldn't want to make things awkward for her. Ya know?
glows Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 She has a boyfriend. If you made a pass at her and she responded in favour, would you trust her going forward in a relationship? 2
JRabbit Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 Even if she is interested, she has a bf. She isn't single. She isnt available. If she breaks up with her bf, she should stay single and not jump into something else. If she truly is in an abusive relationship, she will certainly not be mentally in the head space to be healthy in a relationship either. Enjoy the banter. If you really like her then prepare to be in for a long wait and see. 1
JRabbit Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, StringsAndSticks said: Jen has been treated poorly her whole life, from her dad, two of her three brothers (one of her brothers is actually a real decent guy), her past (and current) boyfriends, and it's kinda all she knows. And she says she'd feel bad about breaking up with him. You have white knight syndrome slinking in here....careful. She needs therapy, not a bf. You are way too invested in her life, and discussing her life behind her back with her boss and co workers is surely not going to win her over. You need to back off OP. Plenty of cool single women out there. Edited August 20, 2021 by JRabbit 3
Author StringsAndSticks Posted August 20, 2021 Author Posted August 20, 2021 49 minutes ago, glows said: She has a boyfriend. If you made a pass at her and she responded in favour, would you trust her going forward in a relationship? Yes, I've thought about that, and it is a very good point. 49 minutes ago, JRabbit said: Even if she is interested, she has a bf. She isn't single. She isnt available. If she breaks up with her bf, she should stay single and not jump into something else. If she truly is in an abusive relationship, she will certainly not be mentally in the head space to be healthy in a relationship either. Enjoy the banter. If you really like her then prepare to be in for a long wait and see. Yes, this is why I haven't pressed the issue, because like I said, at the end of the day, even if she's not in the best situation, she is still involved with someone. 48 minutes ago, JRabbit said: You have white knight syndrome slinking in here....careful. She needs therapy, not a bf. You are way too invested in her life, and discussing her life behind her back with her boss and co workers is surely not going to win her over. You need to back off OP. Plenty of cool single women out there. Hahaha.... "White knight syndrome?" Sounds like something one of those sleazy internet "dating gurus" would say. I'm not quite sure what that means.
glows Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) Google it. It happens. The point is that you're falling for a taken, broken woman who makes questionable choices and dates abusive men. Take some time to reflect. She could be beautiful and charming but that is easy. All it takes is a little agreeableness, smiling a lot and she was born with whatever beauty she has. What matters are those other qualities you want in a partner that are more than skin deep or surface level. Edited August 20, 2021 by glows 3
Wiseman2 Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 3 hours ago, StringsAndSticks said: She’s got a boyfriend. In this case, look but don't touch. Stay friends/coworkers. It doesn't matter what a jerk her BF is or what others say. For now she's taken. 3
JRabbit Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, StringsAndSticks said: Hahaha.... "White knight syndrome?" Sounds like something one of those sleazy internet "dating gurus" would say. I'm not quite sure what that means. It's an actual thing: https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-white-knight-syndrome Quote White knights are men and women who enter into romantic relationships with damaged and vulnerable partners, hoping that love will transform their partner's behavior or life. Though most white knights feel that they are selfless and sacrificing, their rescuing behavior is often misguided. Problems arise when white knights care for their partners at the expense of their own needs, encounter destructive behavior, or try to control their partners. The White Knight Syndrome explains the origins of this behavior, presents 3 white knight subtypes, and explores the concept of balanced rescuing. Edited August 20, 2021 by JRabbit
deepthinking Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) the boyf is not that bad or she would leave so - drama-queen alert! - she likes telling everybody what a victim she is. Take off the rosy specs. Edited August 20, 2021 by deepthinking 3
Caauug Posted August 20, 2021 Posted August 20, 2021 8 hours ago, StringsAndSticks said: “I don’t want to be his mother.”). I guess that’s on top of the fact that he hasn’t had a job in years, and just smokes drugs all day. He's more of a "Bad Boy" or that how she see's him and that is why she is attracted to him. This makes you, "Not her type". She is using you as an emotional dump for "impromptu deep conversations" that she can't have with her BF. Just remember the "Bad Boys" are what she finds attractive. 1
ChatroomHero Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 You know she makes poor choices and isn't adult enough to get out of them. That isn't in a vacuum, you must know that means she makes other poor choices, whether it be money, obligations, etc. If the guy is truly using drugs, no job, treats her poorly and she is still with him, he has a pull on her that defies logic and you won't be able to break it by being good to her. Based on her actions, that is exactly what she wants and is looking for. Make sure you factor that in. She may cry about him to you but she is going home to him and probably not crying to him. So you fill the need so she doesn't have to cry to him and confront him as long as you are there for her, he doesn;t need to be. He just gets the good stuff and you get her grief unloaded on you. The friends saying you should date her aren't helping. They know she has a bf and they have probably told her that too, "you should date OP, your BF sucks!", which can kind of be the friend zone kiss of death in my experience and maybe make her a bit defensive of him even if it is just in her own mind. In my personal experience, when that happens it always seems like the one person she would not date is me, "the one that would be perfect for her". I think it becomes pressure for them and if that is said to them, they kind of get put on the spot because it's not like they are going to dump their bf and get with you. Since they are already in a relationship, in their mind they pass on you right then and there because starting something with you would not happen any time soon and would be perceived as 'complicated' and a burden with no realistic, immediate payoff so they move on from you before anything even materializes. It just sounds like a situation you shouldn't invest anything in. 1
Daisydooks Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 On 8/20/2021 at 10:26 AM, StringsAndSticks said: if she may not be in the best situation, at the end of the day, she is still involved with someone, and it wouldn’t be right. So, what do I do?? Do I just wait it out to see what happens with her and her boyfriend? Do I back off on the flirting and bantering? She is choosing DAILY to stay with him. Even though he is a deadbeat, smokes drugs all day and is abusive... there is a part of her so utterly broken she wouldnt know what to do with a good guy so my guess is if you pursued this, she'd end up cheating on you with her "awful" ex, or leaving you to go back to him anyway. Let her make a clean break, let her clean up her life, and then maybe down the line, something could work. 1
introverted1 Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ChatroomHero said: It just sounds like a situation you shouldn't invest anything in. This. She's been with her supposedly abusive, jerky, unemployed, no-good bf for SIX years and has done nothing about it. Unless you want to get caught up in her drama -- and believe me, there will be plenty of it -- find someone else to date. Keep your relationship with Jen strictly work-friendly. Edited August 24, 2021 by introverted1 typo 3
Author StringsAndSticks Posted August 24, 2021 Author Posted August 24, 2021 48 minutes ago, Daisydooks said: She is choosing DAILY to stay with him. Even though he is a deadbeat, smokes drugs all day and is abusive... there is a part of her so utterly broken she wouldnt know what to do with a good guy so my guess is if you pursued this, she'd end up cheating on you with her "awful" ex, or leaving you to go back to him anyway. Let her make a clean break, let her clean up her life, and then maybe down the line, something could work. I've actually done a lot of thinking about that last part. If they were to part ways, she'll need quite a bit of time to "get her head on straight," so to say. 46 minutes ago, introverted1 said: This. She's been with her supposedly abusive, jerky, unemployed, no-good bf for SIX years and has done nothing about it. Unless you want to get caught up in her drama -- and believe me, there will be plenty of it -- find someone else to date. Keep your relationship with Jen strictly work-friendly. I've heard this sentiment peppered around quite a bit, the "find someone else to date." As if it's something someone *LOOKS* for. Or, as if it's something that's easy to do.... Like there's some "lady tree" planted in my yard that I can just pick one off of.... LOL. I don't quite get that.
introverted1 Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 22 minutes ago, StringsAndSticks said: I've actually done a lot of thinking about that last part. If they were to part ways, she'll need quite a bit of time to "get her head on straight," so to say. I've heard this sentiment peppered around quite a bit, the "find someone else to date." As if it's something someone *LOOKS* for. Or, as if it's something that's easy to do.... Like there's some "lady tree" planted in my yard that I can just pick one off of.... LOL. I don't quite get that. I hear you. It is not always easy to find someone to date. That doesn't make Jen any less of a train wreck, though. Do you have hobbies and interests that might bring you into contact with potential dates? What do you do outside of work? 1
Author StringsAndSticks Posted August 24, 2021 Author Posted August 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, introverted1 said: I hear you. It is not always easy to find someone to date. That doesn't make Jen any less of a train wreck, though. Do you have hobbies and interests that might bring you into contact with potential dates? What do you do outside of work? Well, just music I guess. Outside of work? Well, I work weekdays, and some Saturdays. Then I work Tuesday, Friday and Saturday nights at the restaurant. Thursday night is rehearsal. Sunday is church and usually either go to may friend's house or do yard work, or something like that. So, Monday and Wednesday nights I usually go home, work out a bit, eat, and go to bed. So, I guess that's pretty much it in a nutshell.
introverted1 Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 No women at church? No groups you can join there to expand your circle? You have a tough schedule for dating. Is this a temporary job or your chosen career?
Author StringsAndSticks Posted August 25, 2021 Author Posted August 25, 2021 14 hours ago, introverted1 said: No women at church? No groups you can join there to expand your circle? You have a tough schedule for dating. Is this a temporary job or your chosen career? Nah, they're either married, or too good for me. I don't really wanna expand my circle. It's hard enough keeping up with my circle as it is. Well, not really temporary, or chosen.... More necessary.
smackie9 Posted August 26, 2021 Posted August 26, 2021 (edited) She's one of those....who can't end a relationship unless there's another one pending which screams insecure. I guess you can send a message along through one of those busy bodies, that you would be interested, but won't because she has a BF. Not sure if that's the healthiest way to set things a go or you can just go right up to her and tell her yourself. Just that there's always a chance you may end up a rebound. Most people fresh out of a relationship or in a bad one, find that everything looks good on the menu because they have been deprived of attention. Maybe this could turn out to be an amazing love story who knows. Get on that white horse and go talk to her and see where it takes you. maybe if she knew that you would be available that would encourage her to leave. Like I said it's not a great situation, but you can't have change unless you are willing to take risks. Just be careful her BF doesn't hunt you down and give you a black eye. Edited August 26, 2021 by smackie9
Miss Spider Posted August 26, 2021 Posted August 26, 2021 On 8/25/2021 at 7:48 AM, StringsAndSticks said: Or too good for me. Stop
Author StringsAndSticks Posted August 26, 2021 Author Posted August 26, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, smackie9 said: She's one of those....who can't end a relationship unless there's another one pending which screams insecure. I guess you can send a message along through one of those busy bodies, that you would be interested, but won't because she has a BF. Not sure if that's the healthiest way to set things a go or you can just go right up to her and tell her yourself. Just that there's always a chance you may end up a rebound. Most people fresh out of a relationship or in a bad one, find that everything looks good on the menu because they have been deprived of attention. Maybe this could turn out to be an amazing love story who knows. Get on that white horse and go talk to her and see where it takes you. maybe if she knew that you would be available that would encourage her to leave. Like I said it's not a great situation, but you can't have change unless you are willing to take risks. Just be careful her BF doesn't hunt you down and give you a black eye. Thank you, @smackie9.... Hahaha.... No, I don't have to send any messages along. She already knows I'm interested, just based on my comments and behavior. I've been doing a lot of thinking, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm just going to be like I've always been with her, and if she doesn't want anything more, so be it. Because, at the end of the day, it's her decision whether or not she wants to either stay or get out of her situation. Plus, for me to try to persuade her in some way wouldn't be right. I know that I'm far from perfect, but I like to think that I have at least SOME modicum of integrity. And I wouldn't be living in accordance with my principles if I were to interfere with her relationship. It's just hard sometimes though, you know? To see someone you've known and admired, and sure, found very attractive, for so many years, caught up in something that's bringing her down, and not lifting her up. Edited August 26, 2021 by StringsAndSticks
dispatch3d Posted August 26, 2021 Posted August 26, 2021 I went through something similar, although my coworkers were more professional/less aggressive. Also at the time I'd get very upset if someone brought up her name. I'd just change jobs. 3 years is a good run. In my case a new job would have been hard to find, but in the end they canned me anyways. I'd be better off at a different place and at least in the headspace I can date/not getting constantly emotionally hurt by someone that has no plans to ever actually date me.
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