Am I walking into another heartbreak or could this really be heading somewhere?

[Weezy1973]

11 hours ago, DatingMom said:

 

Not to defend my situation. This might be a bad choice, It's very possible. Most likely! 

The choice isn’t bad or good. The relationship probably won’t work out, but most relationships don’t work out. Nowadays most people are serial monogamists because most relationships don’t work out. 

[poppyfields]

DM, I understand what your therapist is saying, but my question is more why would you feel a sexual and romantic attraction to such an emotionally damaged man in the first place?

I'm extremely empathetic myself, feeling what others feel, it's not always a blessing either. 

And I would empathize with him as well, and if he were a friend, offer my support.

BUT as an emotionally balanced person (more or less lol), that's where it stops.  There is no way on God's green earth I am going to become sexually and romantically drawn/attracted to a new man I just met/had a few dates with  calling me crying, stopping by emotionally distraught to nap on my couch, and otherwise dumping his drama on me essentially using me as his personal emotional garbage pail.

Not gonna happen.  

But okay that's me, and you are you.  And we are all attracted to different things in the opposite sex (or same sex if gay).

Like attracts like.

Broken people attract broken people.

Hurt people attract hurt people.

I believe all those common expressions, they have all been true in my life. 

So again, why are you drawn to such broken men?  

You say you love yourself, and I have no reason to doubt you, and if you are happy with this man and he meets your needs and enhances your life, fabulous!

But you haven't answered those questions which were asked earlier, and the way I view this, and JMO from this thread and your last thread about a previous extremely broken man you became attracted to and were quite hurt when he dumped you and moved on, you are also somewhat broken yourself. On some level, sorry. 

Otherwise, a romantic and sexual involvement with a man like this would hold no attraction or appeal. 

I am not even judging you for it, how could I, a previous long term ex of mine was also broken, became a full blown drug addict and alcoholic.

And at the time, I was also damaged and broken, hence my attraction and involvement.

Once I finally owned that, to myself mostly, the healing process began and now years later, I am no longer attracted to toxic, crazy, broken.  

I can still empathize with their plight, but a romantic attraction?  Not gonna happen, I am now attracted to whole and complete.  Men who have their shyt together, and we enhance each other's already happy, whole and complete lives.

That is what I am drawn to now and seek for myself which is a much MUCH healthier place to be.

In fact I just ended a relationship with a lovely man because I discovered he was still broken.  Very broken. 

And when I discovered that, something in me died and I ended it. 

Anyway, apologies if this sounds preachy just some things to consider on your journey.

All the best. 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by poppyfields

[DatingMom]

@poppyfields I'd be interested to hear your definition of "broken". I think we all go through difficult circumstances in your lives that affect us emotionally. For example, I lost my job at the beginning of Covid after working in the same place for 10 years. I was a mess. It was SO hard. I was feeling very depressed, especially with Covid, feeling isolated, no job opportunities due to Covid etc. Or if someone dies, a parent for example, you fall into a hole of sadness and depression. But those things don't make you a broken person. They are circumstantial and temporary. Feeling depressed and sad, struggling emotionally due to external circumstances doesn't make you into something struggling with depression. Sometimes we are weak, which doesn't mean that we are otherwise not strong. Just saying. 

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, DatingMom said:

@poppyfields I'd be interested to hear your definition of "broken". I think we all go through difficult circumstances in your lives that affect us emotionally. For example, I lost my job at the beginning of Covid after working in the same place for 10 years. I was a mess. It was SO hard. I was feeling very depressed, especially with Covid, feeling isolated, no job opportunities due to Covid etc. Or if someone dies, a parent for example, you fall into a hole of sadness and depression. But those things don't make you a broken person. They are circumstantial and temporary. Feeling depressed and sad, struggling emotionally due to external circumstances doesn't make you into something struggling with depression. Sometimes we are weak, which doesn't mean that we are otherwise not strong. Just saying. 

Well such circumstances make you broken at the time.  I lost both my parents and YES I was very broken afterwards.  I was in a long term RL at the time (with said broken man I mentioned) and together we were two broken people attempting to heal each other but what happened was our brokenness bounced off each other which caused further damage and hurt to both of us.

When I ended that RL I was again broken and damaged, and that is NOT the time to be embarking on any new relationships.  Heal FIRST, become whole again FIRST, then embark on developing new relationships.  

I did attempt it but those relationships were disasters, I attracted broken people, hurt people just like me.

HEAL FIRST.  

This man, I have no words.  He's broken, damaged and toxic regardless of whether it's temporary or not, and again I ask, what is the appeal?  The attraction for you?   

I get you're an empathetic person, like I said so am I, not always a blessing.   But because I am no longer broken or damaged and feel more whole and complete, this type of toxic and crazy would not appeal to me, it wouldn't even be a difficult decision, I just wouldn't be attracted.

I am not a man's caretaker, emotionally or otherwise I have no interest in that.  That is not to say I am not caring and supportive in a LTR because I am, but this is not THAT.  This is a new man you are dating who has proceeded to dump his emotional shyt on you, and you accepting it, even welcoming it.

Justifying it by claiming you are an empathetic and caring person.  To me and I apologize if this sounds harsh, but it sounds like you are in total denial.

Again not judging cause I have been there myself.   

Just own it and the dysfunction of it, that is the first step towards healing and attracting healthy, whole and complete.

This is not going to end well, and you are going to get hurt, once he heals.

I hope I am wrong!   I truly do.

Anyway, no need to respond here, just think about it, consider what I and others are saying, that's all.

Good luck DM. 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by poppyfields

[DatingMom]

@poppyfields I see your point. That's a pretty fair assessment of these types of situations. And in that sense, yes my guy is kind of broken. 

I do want to answer your question about what is the appeal to me. It is a very fair question. So, just to put it out there, I am not a masochist! haha. I do not indulge in unnecessary suffering. When I am no longer well in a situation, I do something about it. Last guy - you keep bringing him up - I was comfortable waiting for a while. I enjoyed his company, until the frustration outweighed the joy. I brought up early on what I was looking for, and he did say that he wasn't ready for that. I stayed another few weeks, so what? I was quite bummed it's true, but got over him within a week. So, that's not too bad. And I don't think I would have been less bummed about it if I walked about 2 weeks earlier. 

But this guy is exactly very very different. I wouldn't really compare them. Previous guy was dealing with traumas all the way back in his childhood. I mean, he was working on some huge things. For the better of course, but that was quite an emotional journey that he was on. This guy is dealing with lots of anxiety because of his custody situation. He is not otherwise damaged I don't think. Or not more than most people in any case. And yes, he did get really upset with the court hearing and came to take a nap on my sofa. Undeniable truth! But outside of his custody battle (which is a big thing, I'm not denying that!), I would say that he is the perfect date. We have a wonderful time together, and he is emotionally and physically available and considerate of my needs. He is extremely attentive and caring. In my over 3 years of dating since my separation, I would say that I overall enjoy his company the most. Previous guy was very intense and we had this crazy connection, but now thinking back, we never just did normally couple things together: it was always intense all nighters discussing with hot sex in between. But never really anything "normal". With this guy, it's just very comfortable. There's something so easy and pleasant and familiar about him. He's like an old friend. And what I especially like about him, is that, unlike most men, he doesn't just want to do evening stuff, he likes to just spend an afternoon going canoeing or on a hike. And I realize that I had really really missed just having that kind of companionship which he provides really nicely. 

[poppyfields]

24 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

But this guy is exactly very very different. I wouldn't really compare them. Previous guy was dealing with traumas all the way back in his childhood. I mean, he was working on some huge things. For the better of course, but that was quite an emotional journey that he was on. This guy is dealing with lots of anxiety because of his custody situation. He is not otherwise damaged I don't think. Or not more than most people in any case. And yes, he did get really upset with the court hearing and came to take a nap on my sofa. Undeniable truth! But outside of his custody battle (which is a big thing, I'm not denying that!), I would say that he is the perfect date. We have a wonderful time together, and he is emotionally and physically available and considerate of my needs. He is extremely attentive and caring. In my over 3 years of dating since my separation, I would say that I overall enjoy his company the most. Previous guy was very intense and we had this crazy connection, but now thinking back, we never just did normally couple things together: it was always intense all nighters discussing with hot sex in between. But never really anything "normal". With this guy, it's just very comfortable. There's something so easy and pleasant and familiar about him. He's like an old friend. And what I especially like about him, is that, unlike most men, he doesn't just want to do evening stuff, he likes to just spend an afternoon going canoeing or on a hike. And I realize that I had really really missed just having that kind of companionship which he provides really nicely.

Okay well thank you for sharing that, this is important info that you neglected to share until now.  Not sure why because it does shed more light on what the appeal and attraction is for you.

What's kinda funny is with all my preaching, what's in bold sounds appealing to me!!  lol   Without all the other dysfunctional stuff.  But I do tend to be drawn to intense connections, for however long it lasts.

But anyway, with this new info, I am seeing this differently now and am going to leave it alone. 

It sounds like you are happy and that is really all that matters.  And I am sure he appreciates your support too!

I hope it all works out for you, I mean that! 

 

[DatingMom]

Yeah, it was very intense with the previous guy. I don't think I ever had that kind of connection with anyone. I think that's what made me hope against hope in some ways. I really thought it was very special. Anecdotally, I heard from that guy this week. I had told him to only text me if he was ready for a relationship, so he sent me a hand written letter.

In the letter he was saying something like: I'm sure you've already moved on. You strike me as someone that would look for and find someone else quickly. But I don't move on quickly and I have thought about you every single day since we last saw each other. I'm working on myself and making progress, but am not in a position yet to be the partner that you deserve. When that moment comes, I will contact you in the hope that you might be receptive because if there's one thing I'm certain of is that I want to be in a long term relationship with you once I'm done dealing with my s***. 

I will say that I was kind of mad at him for sending that letter. It stirred up a lot of unnecessary emotions for me (my exact reason why I didn't want him to contact me). 

[Miss Spider]

Yea that’s exactly what it intended to do. Keep you thinking about him/on his hook a little while longer.  Honestly wouldn’t bother reading his shroom induced musings  

Edited August 27, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[balletomane]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:19 PM, Gaeta said:

He's entitled to move on with his life. The fact his ex is a crazy-weirdo will only play against her, not him. She cannot use 'he's dating' as a weapon against him in court. Her harassing and threatening his new girlfriend YES can be used to question her mental stability in court. So trying to not piss her off isn't justified here. 

What's more, attorneys will always recommend that clients preserve firm clear boundaries in any dispute, so that each party knows exactly what is expected of them. It sounds to me as though DatingMom is looking for reasons to minimise or excuse this man's choices.

DM, I'm also getting the impression that part of you enjoys the idea of him relying on you so heavily and so soon - the idea that your house is already the harbour he comes to when he needs a nap, that you're the one special understanding person he can trust, that you are generous and empathic where others would struggle to cope with him, and so on. It's flattering in a way. But it will cloud your judgement and make you more likely to tolerate behaviour that shouldn't be tolerated.

[poppyfields]

10 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Yea that’s exactly what it intended to do. Keep you thinking about him/on his hook a little while longer.  Honestly wouldn’t bother reading his shroom induced musings  

Agree cookies, 100%!

Which begs the question, why does he want to keep you on his hook?

Because maybe some morning he will wake up with some grand epiphany that he wants a relationship with you?  

Not likely. 

His excuse that he is dealing with "shyt" is BS.   His shyt is that he is commitment avoidant and prefers being single.

Period, end of. 

In this case, I would block.   I myself literally cringed when reading his BS (shroom induced musings as cookies so aptly called it), and this is after putting myself in your shoes as a woman who had/still has romantic feelings for him.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by poppyfields

[Gaeta]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

Which begs the question, why does he want to keep you on his hook?

With men it's usually to secure future sex. 

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

With men it's usually to secure future sex. 

Yeah that too.

[bananatree]

I haven't read all the comments, but I'm not convinced this guy is bad news at all.  I'm a little surprised at the folks chiming in here saying that you shouldn't have to "be his therapist."  In fact, emotional connection with romantic partners and friends does come through sharing vulnerable and even difficult emotions.  Also a little surprised at people saying he's trying to just secure sex.  Well, duh.  So are you!  That's kind of a big part of the whole "dating and relationships" thing.  

I'm also not totally floored at his investigation of future living arrangements.  He's 39.  He's looking for a partner, not a fling.  It's natural for him to inquire into your future plans to see if there might be a good fit with plans he may want to devise with a partner.  

I do think that for separated/divorced people, dating is a whole new universe and people do tend to feel like teenagers again, unclear of the rules, letting their hearts rule over their brains.  Most likely, anyone you meet at this age will have some kind of baggage... it goes with the territory of having lived on the planet for 40 years!  If you like him and he likes you, just be mindful about what you think is healthy and appropriate and have clear communication.  Talking about moving in together maybe sometime in the future is not a red flag in my book.  If you feel pressured to move faster than you are comfortable with, THAT is a red flag.  The last thing you need is to be saddled with a guy you thought you really totally LOVED at first, only to learn the true nature of his character, which may not be all that spectacular.  So... keep seeing him, get to know him, have fun together.  If in a year or so, you are still super into him, then you can entertain thoughts of new milestones.

 

[Gaeta]

14 minutes ago, bananatree said:

Also a little surprised at people saying he's trying to just secure sex.  Well, duh.  So are you! 

This was concerning an ex that contacted her, not her current man. 

[DatingMom]

Thank you all for your comments! @balletomane To be honest his situation is a bit tricky. He's made some mistakes in the past. Nothing very serious, but things that she can hold  against him. So his ex kind of has him by the balls since two years, and it's affected his mental well-being. He's had a big stretch of just mental exhaustion that he came out of recently. His situation is to be honest super shitty. And overall, I think he's handling it not too badly. He has bad days when he's discouraged and sad, and it's hard as someone who doesn't know him since very long to be there for that. Because new beginnings with a person should be fun and fluffy, right? And sometimes it's like that, and sometimes it's not. 

I have given this a lot of thought over the past weeks. I have dated "a lot" of men since my separation. Not just like 2-3 dates, but some longer relationships. One that was 1.5 years, some that were 4-5 months. And my conclusion from my own experience is that at this stage in life, everyone has some sort of baggage. I feel the key is in how the baggage is handled. This guy, well, there was the "crashing on the couch" incident! So, not handling his baggage 100% well. But I think the thing that has made me stay until now is his gentle gratitude for having me in his life. I feel that he really appreciates me, and after having been married for 18 years to someone that didn't really appreciate me that much, it feels nice. Maybe that's weak, narcissistic. I don't know. 

But the way he shows that he appreciates me are:

1) He always makes time for me. If I only have one day available for him in a week and he has something that day, he'll move everything around to accommodate my schedule. 

2) He is so considerate of everything. He shows up with a case of wine when he feels I have provided a lot of drinks at my place. He shows up with a bag of groceries and cooks me dinner. He always makes sure that I'm sexually happy. He makes sure not to wake me if he tiptoes out of the house early in the morning. 

3) He's super generous. For example, my Apple TV broke and he gets me a new one. I mention a music festival that suddenly announced live shows and he gets tickets. 

On the other hand, it feels very day-by-day. He's in up to his neck and court stuff, and he might have to move to Saskatchewan if his ex wins the custody battle. And as a mother I totally understand that no matter what, kids will always come first, over a new partner, over your own happiness, over everything. 

All that to say that since my separation I feel that I have been very stuck on the idea of finding my next "life partner". And now I'm starting to wonder if that will ever happen. Or more, not "if" but whether perhaps I should just obsess a little bit less about that and live my life as it feels good in the now, and see where life leads. I feel sometimes good things come to you when you stop looking for them.

[balletomane]

5 hours ago, DatingMom said:

Thank you all for your comments! @balletomane To be honest his situation is a bit tricky. He's made some mistakes in the past. Nothing very serious, but things that she can hold  against him. So his ex kind of has him by the balls since two years, and it's affected his mental well-being. He's had a big stretch of just mental exhaustion that he came out of recently. His situation is to be honest super shitty. And overall, I think he's handling it not too badly. He has bad days when he's discouraged and sad, and it's hard as someone who doesn't know him since very long to be there for that. Because new beginnings with a person should be fun and fluffy, right? And sometimes it's like that, and sometimes it's not. 

I have given this a lot of thought over the past weeks. I have dated "a lot" of men since my separation. Not just like 2-3 dates, but some longer relationships. One that was 1.5 years, some that were 4-5 months. And my conclusion from my own experience is that at this stage in life, everyone has some sort of baggage. I feel the key is in how the baggage is handled. This guy, well, there was the "crashing on the couch" incident! So, not handling his baggage 100% well. But I think the thing that has made me stay until now is his gentle gratitude for having me in his life. I feel that he really appreciates me, and after having been married for 18 years to someone that didn't really appreciate me that much, it feels nice. Maybe that's weak, narcissistic. I don't know.

It's still very early stages for you with this man (in your OP you said you'd met up once every two weeks in June and July, then started to see him more often in August), so much as you feel that you know him, you won't yet have a true sense of him. As for his ex, you don't know her at all - all you know is what he's told you. I'm quite concerned by the way you seem to be building her up into a Wicked Witch of the West-type character, while glossing over anything your ex might have contributed to the situation. If the "mistakes" he made were severe enough to impact a court's decision on custody, then they were major, whatever he tells you. At this point you don't know his character well enough to gauge the situation. It seems like you're playing the role of the comforting healing angel while the ex is held up as the vindictive demon who ruined his mental health, and while that might feel temporarily gratifying and flattering, it's also a warning sign. A big warning sign. Anyone who trash-talks their exes to a new partner is either in no fit state to be dating (in cases where the ex's behaviour truly was awful) or they struggle to take responsibility for their own actions and resolve conflict in a healthy way. I don't know which category this guy falls into, but the fact that he's massively oversharing is not a good sign either way. Everyone might have baggage, but that doesn't mean a new partner should be the one carrying it for them. You're not his therapist.

As for the other stuff you mention, I would also be concerned at a man buying me presents like a TV within three months of dating. The groceries for a shared dinner and a bottle of wine now and then are a nice present, but fancier more expensive stuff suggests a tendency to rush into things at best. I agree that it would be wise to take a relaxed approach and just see where things go, but a lot of what you're describing doesn't fit with that relaxed approach at all. It's all too much, too soon.

[Gaeta]

We all have baggage and I want to date a man with baggage. Baggage means wisdom & experience BUT there is a difference between baggage and problems. Baggage is when you dealt with it already and are now at peace. This current man has unsolved problems, not the same. He is not in a place yet to benefit of all the wisdom and experience of his current situation. 

That being said, no matter what we say, your mind is made up to continue this. Look at my signature, sometimes we have to consult our head in these matters, not only our heart. Live in the moment, guard your heart, and see where it goes. His true color will come out soon. 

[poppyfields]

Hey DM, thanks for the update, I've been wondering. 

Anyhoo, agree with Gaeta BUT imo it's also important to spend time looking within at what draws you to this type of situation whereby, as @balletomaneso aptly stated, you have become his "comforting healing angel."

It's got codependency written all over it. 

But like G said, you have made up your mind (and heart) and thus will justify your reasons for proceeding forward, which is fine, no judgment. 

Perhaps it will work out, who knows. 

The odds aren't in your favor, but that's how we learn, grow, evolve.   Through mistakes and failure, but again you never know how things we might play out.

Just know you will be OK no matter what the outcome. 

All the best! 

Edited September 2, 2021 by poppyfields

[lonelyplanetmoon]

18 hours ago, DatingMom said:

All that to say that since my separation I feel that I have been very stuck on the idea of finding my next "life partner". And now I'm starting to wonder if that will ever happen. Or more, not "if" but whether perhaps I should just obsess a little bit less about that and live my life as it feels good in the now, and see where life leads. I feel sometimes good things come to you when you stop looking for them.

Did you even read my post?

Exactly what I said!  Focus on living in the present. Past and future thinking will  cause doubt and insecurity.

[Mrin]

20 hours ago, DatingMom said:

All that to say that since my separation I feel that I have been very stuck on the idea of finding my next "life partner". And now I'm starting to wonder if that will ever happen. Or more, not "if" but whether perhaps I should just obsess a little bit less about that and live my life as it feels good in the now, and see where life leads. I feel sometimes good things come to you when you stop looking for them.

I was just having this conversation with a friend recently. When you come out of a marriage or long term relationship it is natural to feel like you are half of something that is no longer complete. You feel that absence of a life partner distinctly. I know I did. And as long as there is that absence you feel incomplete. And your focus is finding that new life partner so that you can feel complete again.

That's basically what you just described. However, along the way some folks lose that sense of incompleteness without a life partner in their lives. And feel complete just the way they are. I personally think that everybody should get to that stage before entering into a new life partnership. For some people that happens pretty quickly. Others more slowly and for some never at all.

It feels to me that you are starting to move into that phase and that's a good thing.