My first casual relationship - some questions.

[Agentra]

Hi, 

I am 23F and have been seeing 26M for a little while now, I think we've met 6 times now (my memory isn't something to brag about and I don't keep track of these things). I haven't really done anything like this before, he openly stated he merely wishes for a casual relationship and I agreed. Our communication's always been very easy and open, I'm not seeing anybody else and according to him, he isn't either. Currently I am just enjoying it for what it is, and it's nice. We get along really well. 

I suppose I am wondering about the intimacy in casual relationships. We are both rather affectionate with one another and I was wondering if this is considered "normal" in these kinds of situations or is it merely individual? The last time we met I noticed some changes that came unexpected and got me thinking. 

For context, he stays over every time and we cuddle all night. At first it was just some nice cuddles, in the morning we both got up and headed for work, but it gets more "intimate" every time. Now he quietly laughs and hugs me really tight whenever I snuggle closer, wraps my arms around him when he turns over so I'll be the "big spoon", we're almost holding hands half of the time and he gives me a kiss in the morning, telling me to continue sleeping as my day starts later compared to his. After he's ready to leave, he tells me to have a beautiful day and heads out. 

The last time he also tried so hard to make me laugh and have a good time - he kept goofing around and earlier in the day sent me a picture where he made a funny face. Maybe it sounds dumb, but it's the little things and not something I expected, really. He remembers literally everything I tell him and he's interested in my life. He smiles and laughs a lot as well, which is fantastic. 

What even is "casual" then? I expected a lot less, to be frank with you. Sometimes I think maybe he's not over somebody and is enjoying a little fantasy he's created, maybe he's just confused or perhaps this is just the intimacy he craves. It concerns me also, what if I catch feelings. It's confusing to me, really. 

What are other experiences here with casual relationships?


Also, Engrish isn't my first language, so if anything's confusing, I'm sorry

[d0nnivain]

Casual involves minimal emotional investment.  You can cuddle & you can see each other outside of the bedroom.   You just have to check yourself.  Don't confide too much in him & do not expect him to be your + 1 to things (although you can invite him) or for him to be there for you in a time of need.   

[glows]

What you describe is common. He’s not emotionally available so avoid getting attached. If you suspect he’s in fantasyland it is likely true. Trust your instincts. A lot of people engage with others and aren’t self-actualized or running away from dealing with their emotions or reality. There are a great deal of people who cannot handle being alone or need someone else to take the edge off pain and other unpleasant emotions. 

You should be wary of that especially if his affections, while comforting and titillating, appear fake or overdone, too much too soon and overly loving considering the brief time you know one another. 

I think he’s being pleasant and entertaining. Enjoy the company but keep things in perspective.

[JRabbit]

Casual means he is not committed to you. Honestly by your post it doesn't sound like this is going to end well. Getting in casual and then hoping it turns to more rarely ever happens. He owes you no honesty and he may very well be getting with other women.  He wants all the GF perks but none of the work.

 

 

[d0nnivain]

I disagree that casual is a free pass for dishonesty.   It does mean that you are not exclusive.  In that sense, he may very well (& IMO should) err on the side of discretion & not announce he's dating others.  He certainly shouldn't throw other women in @Agentra's face but she would be well served to assume there are others & protect her health & heart accordingly.  

[JRabbit]

4 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I disagree that casual is a free pass for dishonesty.

Yes definitely not a free pass, more meaning its less likely he would be honest because he doesn't see it as serious. Dishonesty is never ok.

[smackie9]

 

Look the only way to deal with this is to back off a bit and set boundaries like, no more sleep overs, everyone needs to go home and sleep in their own bed, spend zero time on things that encourages emotional intimacy. And be more vocal about it. Say something. If it's becoming too coupley, say it. Draw the line.

[poppyfields]

"Casual" means anything you and the man you are seeing want it to mean. You define it for yourselves.

Same with serious and commitment, every couple defines those terms in their own way, what works for them.

I'm in a "casual" relationship now.  Close to two months.  

It does NOT mean no or less "emotional investment," we are both quite emotional and close and getting closer every time we spend time together.

A relationship with no emotional investment is a "frivolous" relationship, FB possibly because unless you are a robot with no emotions, every relationship comes with some sort of emotional investment attached to it.

For us, casual means we are not "serious" -- yet.  It's been less than two months, how can it be serious? 

Which means we don't talk about the future, we don't ask "what does this mean"? Or "where is this going"?   We take it one day at a time, we're both outcome independent.

That's the problem with most romantic relationships, everything is so dam rushed! 

Slow down!  Enjoy the ride, the journey, the process. 

Most relationships start off casual, and can lead to serious (or not).  But it takes time. 

Your guy may have said casual to avoid you pushing or putting pressure on him/the relationship for "more."  

Other women may have done that, and it squelched his natural desire to move closer and become more emotionally invested at his own pace. 

Don't be that girl.  Slow down, enjoy the journey.   Have fun!  

Let things progress from casual to serious slowly, naturally and organically.

Don't worry about where you end up. Whether it will get 'serious' or not.  Worrying about such things may actually prevent you from getting there, 

Have faith and trust in the connection you're building and enjoy!  Relax!

  

Edited August 13, 2021 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

29 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

"Casual" means anything you and the man you are seeing want it to mean. You define it for yourselves.

Same with serious and commitment, every couple defines those terms in their own way, what works for them.

I'm in a "casual" relationship now.  Close to two months.  

It does NOT mean no or less "emotional investment," we are both quite emotional and close and getting closer every time we spend time together.

A relationship with no emotional investment is a "frivolous" relationship, FB possibly because unless you are a robot with no emotions, every relationship comes with some sort of emotional investment attached to it.

For us, casual means we are not "serious" -- yet.  It's been less than two months, how can it be serious? 

Which means we don't talk about the future, we don't ask "what does this mean"? Or "where is this going"?   We take it one day at a time, we're both outcome independent.

That's the problem with most romantic relationships, everything is so dam rushed! 

Slow down!  Enjoy the ride, the journey, the process. 

Most relationships start off casual, and can lead to serious (or not).  But it takes time. 

Your guy may have said casual to avoid you pushing or putting pressure on him/the relationship for "more."  

Other women may have done that, and it squelched his natural desire to move closer and become more emotionally invested at his own pace. 

Don't be that girl.  Slow down, enjoy the journey.   Have fun!  

Let things progress from casual to serious slowly, naturally and organically.

Don't worry about where you end up. Whether it will get 'serious' or not.  Worrying about such things may actually prevent you from getting there, 

Have faith and trust in the connection you're building and enjoy!  Relax!

  

I have a question about this… I think with a lot of people, when they become what I believe to mean “emotionally invested” in someone, they have a tendency to want all the romantic implications we’ve come to associate with that western world..to become “partners”  which means they want to be around you quite a bit as they miss you when you’re gone, they pine, they want often to do things they previously did alone with you in your company because they deeply enjoy your company, they come to you for emotional support, they expect emotional support from you in hardships and feel the need to do the same for you, they become attached to they way you look at them, your smile, the way you feel, the way you laugh… basically your whole essence becomes something at least somewhat irreplaceable or valuable to them as they become emotionally attached/invested… that’s what we associate with romantic love at least ,  they include you in the equation in whatever future hopes and dreams they are planning, be that a family or moving away to live in Bogotá  because the future does include some work in present at times  … so  basically like a partnership and that entails. So they become a bit outcome dependent in that even if you label casual “oh it can mean anything!” At the end of the day, if you were to dump them and move on to someone else you like more they would be in some way hurt, because they were emotionally invested. Now in your view, where am I wrong on this 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Miss Spider]

And if the only difference between a “ relationship” and a “casual” relationship in modern terms  is that casual relationships are where both people are simply able to detach themselves from any outcome( and I don’t think it is, for the aforementioned reasons) doesn’t that by definition mean less emotional investment? Because investment into the future is a big one for many people 

[poppyfields]

cookies, I don't have much time right now, but in short, if the man I'm seeing dumped me tomorrow, I'd be VERY hurt.

I have feelings for him, emotions, casual does not mean NOT experiencing those emotions.  

It means what I said taking it "one day at a time "  Outcome independent.

When you talk about people "wanting to be around you quite a bit as they miss you when you’re gone, they pine, they want often to do things they previously did alone with you in your company because they deeply enjoy your company, they come to you for emotional support, they expect emotional support from you in hardships and feel the need to do the same for you, they include you in the equation in whatever future hopes and dreams they are planning, be that a family or moving away to live in Bogotá  , … basically like partnership," it's NOT the label that causes that, it's their "mindset," their "frame." 

Often driven by anxiety, insecurity, social conditioning. 

That said, what you described takes time. I think it's a mistake to expect all that after 6 dates, as in the OP's case.

It also sounds very close to codependency, which is not what I'm about nor do I think it's healthy.  

That's all I'm saying.  Enjoy the journey, the process. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

8 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

cookies, I don't have much time right now, but in short, if the man I'm seeing dumped me tomorrow, I'd be VERY hurt.

I have feelings for him, emotions, casual does not mean NOT experiencing those emotions.  

It means what I said taking it "one day at a time "  Outcome independent.

When you talk about people "wanting to be around you quite a bit as they miss you when you’re gone, they pine, they want often to do things they previously did alone with you in your company because they deeply enjoy your company, they come to you for emotional support, they expect emotional support from you in hardships and feel the need to do the same for you, they include you in the equation in whatever future hopes and dreams they are planning, be that a family or moving away to live in Bogotá  , … basically like partnership," it's NOT the label that causes that, it's their "mindset," their "frame." 

Often driven by anxiety, insecurity, social conditioning. 

That said, what you described takes time. I think it's a mistake to expect all that after 6 dates. 

That's all I'm saying.  Enjoy the journey, the process. 

I’m still confused. I’m curious about you mean by this . Not experiencing the emotions vs having them. I didn’t mean to suggest that there was any anxiety or insecurity. I mean, you can definitely feel all of that stuff I mentioned and not feel any anxiety or insecurity about it because I have felt that way in the past. I have wanted to be around someone and likewise they wanted to be around me and it was just a mutually awesome affair. I didn’t have to have any negative feelings attached to it. However, because we are humans that sometimes feel anxiety and insecurities, sure this can sprout up in any type of situation. But that’s not saying there’s anything wrong with “missing” someone when they’re gone. If I like something and I want it around I miss it when it’s gone. A perfectly healthy emotional response. If I want some Kit-kat s and I don’t have them, I miss them. It does not mean I have some kind of emotional attachment issue and it doesn’t mean that it’s off the edge type of stuff that causes me anxiety  it just means that there is an attachment there

 

and I don’t think that this is socially conditioned at all. I think it is exhibited in birth. We see attachments in infants 

 

You don’t have to expand on your beliefs right now. But whenever you have time I am very interested

Edited August 13, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Emilyinroses]

54 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

"Casual" means anything you and the man you are seeing want it to mean. You define it for yourselves.

Same with serious and commitment, every couple defines those terms in their own way, what works for them.

I'm in a "casual" relationship now.  Close to two months.  

It does NOT mean no or less "emotional investment," we are both quite emotional and close and getting closer every time we spend time together.

A relationship with no emotional investment is a "frivolous" relationship, FB possibly because unless you are a robot with no emotions, every relationship comes with some sort of emotional investment attached to it.

For us, casual means we are not "serious" -- yet.  It's been less than two months, how can it be serious? 

Which means we don't talk about the future, we don't ask "what does this mean"? Or "where is this going"?   We take it one day at a time, we're both outcome independent.

That's the problem with most romantic relationships, everything is so dam rushed! 

Slow down!  Enjoy the ride, the journey, the process. 

Most relationships start off casual, and can lead to serious (or not).  But it takes time. 

Your guy may have said casual to avoid you pushing or putting pressure on him/the relationship for "more."  

Other women may have done that, and it squelched his natural desire to move closer and become more emotionally invested at his own pace. 

Don't be that girl.  Slow down, enjoy the journey.   Have fun!  

Let things progress from casual to serious slowly, naturally and organically.

Don't worry about where you end up. Whether it will get 'serious' or not.  Worrying about such things may actually prevent you from getting there, 

Have faith and trust in the connection you're building and enjoy!  Relax!

  

I agree with you for the most part, but then why say in the beginning that is ‘just casual’? That is a red flag to me.

Yes I agree, enjoy it and take one day at a time and see where it goes without pressure, but why the need to say is only casual?

What if further down the line you realise you are in love? You just set yourself for failure from day one.

Same as saying in the beginning you want something serious and then realising later you are not compatible.

So, why the labels so early on??? 

To me that is a huge red flag. Either the guy is a womanizer, is already committed to someone else, is emotionally unavailable, or any other serious issue that would make a normal woman run for the hills.

No need to say is only casual from the very start, because casual means no string attached and later on that can backfire badly.

I could never be in a relationship where from the beginning the guy tells me it’s only casual.

I love romance and letting a story unfold naturally, and if a guy said that to me it would be like putting a huge wall between us and killing all romance. And then be the fallback girl questioning every romantic gesture he has.

Not my thing. I like things the old fashioned way.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Emilyinroses

[Miss Spider]

If you would be “very hurt“ I would argue it’s no longer casual for you, in every definition I have ever heard the word “casual” used. If we’re making up new definitions to words and they no longer have a set meaning, then sure you can use it, but then no one would be able to communicate properly. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Emilyinroses]

14 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

cookies, I don't have much time right now, but in short, if the man I'm seeing dumped me tomorrow, I'd be VERY hurt.

I have feelings for him, emotions, casual does not mean NOT experiencing those emotions.  

It means what I said taking it "one day at a time "  Outcome independent.

When you talk about people "wanting to be around you quite a bit as they miss you when you’re gone, they pine, they want often to do things they previously did alone with you in your company because they deeply enjoy your company, they come to you for emotional support, they expect emotional support from you in hardships and feel the need to do the same for you, they include you in the equation in whatever future hopes and dreams they are planning, be that a family or moving away to live in Bogotá  , … basically like partnership," it's NOT the label that causes that, it's their "mindset," their "frame." 

Often driven by anxiety, insecurity, social conditioning. 

That said, what you described takes time. I think it's a mistake to expect all that after 6 dates. 

That's all I'm saying.  Enjoy the journey, the process. 

Don’t take me wrong, but I hear you many times saying your are outcome free and just enjoy things in a casual way. That is great.

But then I also see you saying this, that you would be very hurt if the man you are seeing dumps you tomorrow.

Just want to say that enjoy each day at a time and surrender to what is, but don’t ignore your feelings, sometimes wanting a specific outcome can be a positive thing, because when you are so outcome free, it can also mean you are not emotionally available to commit to something defined and established, and end up losing a good thing.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Emilyinroses

[Miss Spider]

11 minutes ago, Emilyinroses said:

I agree with you for the most part, but then why say in the beginning that is ‘just casual’? That is a red flag to me.

 

Because most people understand the meaning of this colloquial English  language and assume others do too so they don’t have to feel bad about it. It means I don’t want a rship with you, this temp for me, but I’ll enjoy the sex/companionship and where it will take us until it most likely ends( but not necessarily, people change their minds). So don’t make any plans.

 

then some people will see this as hopeful and that it will turn into something more so they hijack the term to “mean whatever they want it to mean. I mean if it helps you sleep better at night? 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Agentra said:

he merely wishes for a casual relationship

You'll have to believe him, even though you are listing every possible sign you can think of to hope that it's more than FWB.

You need to be honest with yourself and if you want more than 'casual' you'll be heartbroken.

If you are falling for him, he forewarned you that it's "merely casual" to see how little you would accept.

Why is he camping out at your place? Is he married/living with someone?

Edited August 13, 2021 by Wiseman2

[poppyfields]

21 minutes ago, Emilyinroses said:

Don’t take me wrong, but I hear you many times saying your are outcome free and just enjoy things in a casual way. That is great.

But then I also see you saying this, that you would be very hurt if the man you are seeing dumps you tomorrow.

Just want to say that enjoy each day at a time and surrender to what is, but don’t ignore your feelings, sometimes wanting a specific outcome can be a positive thing.

Gosh I wish I had more time! 

Being outcome independent does NOT mean I don't want or hope for a particular outcome, I'm just not attached to the outcome, that's all.  There's a difference.

I am "detached" on a certain level, but again does not mean I can't hope for things to turn out a particular way.  I'm relaxed about it. 

I know I will be OK no matter what happens!  I have that confidence.

I also experience anxiety from time to time, like last weekend for example, I felt VERY anxious, but I managed it on my own, I did not 'burden my guy with it.

And it passed.

I get what I'm saying can be difficult to do for many people, but it's what I strive for.

It's an internal growth and evolutionary process, at least for me. 

But I strongly believe in it - becoming whole and complete on your own before you meet and your partner enhancing your already complete self and life versus "being" your life.

It requires a certain faith and trust, not only in the connection you are building with your partner but in yourself.  Faith and trust in yourself.

Forget labels, they're meaningless and have no value as far as I'm concerned.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by poppyfields

[Emilyinroses]

7 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Gosh I wish I had more time! 

Being outcome independent does NOT mean I don't want or hope for a particular outcome, I'm just not attached to the outcome, that's all.  There's a difference.

I am "detached" on a certain level, but again does not mean I can't hope for things to turn out a particular way.  I'm relaxed about it. 

I know I will be OK no matter what happens!  I have that confidence.

I also experience anxiety from time to time, like last weekend for example, I felt VERY anxious, but I managed it on my own, I did not 'burden my guy with it.

And it passed.

I get what I'm saying can be difficult to do for many people, but it's what I strive for.

It's an internal growth and evolutionary process, at least for me. 

But I strongly believe in it - becoming whole and complete on your own before you meet and your partner enhancing your already complete self and life versus "being" your life.

It requires a certain faith and trust, not only in the connection you are building with your partner but in yourself.  Faith and trust in yourself.

 

I get what you are saying, and is great to be detached from an outcome and to let things be what they are supposed to be organically and knowing you’ll be ok no matter what. That is healthy and very different from codependency.

What I don’t get though is why putting the stamp ‘casual’ so early on. Why not just let things be without any labels?

When I met my ex husband many years ago we also started off in a casual way, but no labels. Things progressed naturally and one day he invited me to go for dinner at his mom’s as his girlfriend, and BAM we were officially exclusive.

I don’t understand this need nowadays to label it in the beginning. Just say nothing and play by ear. Much more interesting.

[Emilyinroses]

26 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Because most people understand the meaning of this colloquial English  language and assume others do too so they don’t have to feel bad about it. It means I don’t want a rship with you, this temp for me, but I’ll enjoy the sex/companionship and where it will take us until it most likely ends( but not necessarily, people change their minds). So don’t make any plans.

 

then some people will see this as hopeful and that it will turn into something more so they hijack the term to “mean whatever they want it to mean. I mean if it helps you sleep better at night? 

OMG! If a guy said to me in the beginning he just wants casual, I would be telling him to hit the road jack and never come back.

I’m not a temporary enjoyment for your pleasure. And I want romance and a man who is open to whatever happens between us.

What a bunch of BS that casual stuff. Seriously, is beyond my comprehension why some women (who want a relationship) accept those idiots in their lives. Get yourself a man, not a boy.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Emilyinroses

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Agentra said:

he openly stated he merely wishes for a casual relationship and I agreed. Our communication's always been very easy and open

So did you ask him what he meant by "casual"? 

We can give you our definitions, which may or may not be the same as his. I can tell you that I've had a couple casual arrangements which involved the sort of interactions you're describing, but without much emotional significance attached to it. In one case I had recently come out of a long-term relationship and was not looking to get serious, and in the other I just didn't see the guy as boyfriend material for me. We were all clear that it was not moving towards dating - no harm, no foul, just some fun. 

Only your guy can really tell you if this is the case for him or not. 

[Miss Spider]

21 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Gosh I wish I had more time! 

Being outcome independent does NOT mean I don't want or hope for a particular outcome, I'm just not attached to the outcome, that's all.  There's a difference.

I am "detached" on a certain level, but again does not mean I can't hope for things to turn out a particular way.  I'm relaxed about it. 

I know I will be OK no matter what happens!  I have that confidence.

I also experience anxiety from time to time, like last weekend for example, I felt VERY anxious, but I managed it on my own, I did not 'burden my guy with it.

And it passed.

I get what I'm saying can be difficult to do for many people, but it's what I strive for.

It's an internal growth and evolutionary process, at least for me. 

But I strongly believe in it - becoming whole and complete on your own before you meet and your partner enhancing your already complete self and life versus "being" your life.

It requires a certain faith and trust, not only in the connection you are building with your partner but in yourself.  Faith and trust in yourself.

 

Can you not be “outcome independent” in a serious relationship too? I guess I would then what is the difference between a casual relationship and a serious relationship to you? 
 

becayse you’re still experiencing anxiety even with this label you’ve plsced( in my opinion , rightfully so, because words are just words we use to describe/communicate pretty much universal experience  , and casual rships rend to produce anxiety because of what they ultimately mean ) 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[poppyfields]

14 minutes ago, Emilyinroses said:

What I don’t get though is why putting the stamp ‘casual’ so early on. Why not just let things be without any labels?

I modifed my last post, see last paragraph.

I agree with you, forget labels, they're meaningless imo. 

My guy and I don't define our relationship as "casual" or anything else, I only describe it that way to other people, as labels are an important part of society today and give people a certain understanding

But as is happening here, they often get misinterpreted, everyone, every couple has their own definition.  What it means for them.

There is no 'one size fits all."

Edited August 13, 2021 by poppyfields

[d0nnivain]

Some people like & are OK with casual.  I had some casual stuff for a while before I met my husband because frankly I wanted sex but I didn't want the hassle of having to deal with some guy's needs.  I didn't want to play house or make him breakfast.  I wanted him to go home.   I didn't want to sit through a dinner that I had to get all dolled up for & talk.  Casual was just fine, at that point in my life, TYVM.  

I agree that if you want a relationship accepting causal is the worst way to try to achieve that. The man is unlikely to fall for you just because you had sex with him.  Rather, the guy will most likely think the woman is "easy" or at least that she's not "wife material."  

[d0nnivain]

9 minutes ago, Emilyinroses said:

casual means ‘I fu** you but I can fu** others too, because we are not exclusive in any way’. Sorry to be so blunt but that’s the truth.

I never saw it only that way.  My last FWB & I were exclusive in the sense that we were not having sex with anybody other than each other for about a year.  the deal was as soon as somebody found somebody they wanted to date the "benefits" would end.  We actually ended up stopping the NSA sex when he told me he was developing feelings for me & wanted to date.  I didn't want that so I stopped sleeping with him.  It was only fair  

Any kind of interaction can be defined by the people in it. But to the OP's original Qs, the hallmark of casual is that you cannot rely on your FWB to be there for you emotionally or even in body when there is a problem.  If you need a shoulder to cry on, pick somebody else, not the person you are sleeping with.