15 year marriage with 2 kids gone down the drain

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Sand__ra said:

Ok, her moving on may be actually a good thing but why doesn't she keep that for herself? Why does she have to let my family and our mutual friends know about her state of mind? 

< snip>

 I try to remain civil and empathetic, I listen to her, but she keeps treating me badly like my presence annoys her despite focusing my attention on our child. She needs to accept that I'm not the father just to pay child support, I want to be present on my child's therapy appointments and she really needs to live with that. 

A lot of people process their emotions through social media.  It's her social media feed, so providing it's not slanderous, she has the right to write whatever she wants.   If it bothers your friends and family, they will unfollow or unfriend her.   As for what she wrote, I don't think it looks like she's victimising herself at all.  It's simply something about moving on and having a fresh start.   

Yes, your presence probably does annoy her.  Things like demanding that you be present when she buys clothes for your child would be extremely annoying.  With the therapy, why don't you alternate taking your child?   Week on/week off.  Neither of you has to be there for each and every appointment.  

Edited November 20, 2021 by basil67

[Sand__ra]

20 hours ago, basil67 said:

A lot of people process their emotions through social media.  It's her social media feed, so providing it's not slanderous, she has the right to write whatever she wants.   If it bothers your friends and family, they will unfollow or unfriend her.   As for what she wrote, I don't think it looks like she's victimising herself at all.  It's simply something about moving on and having a fresh start.   

Yes, your presence probably does annoy her.  Things like demanding that you be present when she buys clothes for your child would be extremely annoying.  With the therapy, why don't you alternate taking your child?   Week on/week off.  Neither of you has to be there for each and every appointment.  

I do not demand that I'm always present when she buys clothes, only when major purchases are made (like €100+) which does not happen often. If I'm paying for the clothes on top of child support, it's reasonable that I have say.
As what regards to the therapy, this was a one off appointment for assessment purposes, it was quite important. For regular therapy sessions, I usually drive my son there but I cannot go in, I just wait for him.
My friends told me that my reaction was actually quite soft considering the circumstance, there is absolutely no need for her to have a go on me like that . My stbxw is clearly bitter months after the separation but I just would like to know whether she's still got feelings for me, or is just hurt by whatever reason. I don't want to be mr. right guy here, I just want to avoid any more arguments and provocations.
 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Sand__ra

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Sand__ra said:

I do not demand that I'm always present when she buys clothes, only when major purchases are made (like €100+) which does not happen often. If I'm paying for the clothes on top of child support, it's reasonable that I have say.

It is your opinion that it's reasonable.  She may not agree and hence her being annoyed with your presence. 

1 hour ago, Sand__ra said:

As what regards to the therapy, this was a one off appointment for assessment purposes, it was quite important. For regular therapy sessions, I usually drive my son there but I cannot go in, I just wait for him.

If it's only a one off, why did you say that you need to be present with the appointments and she needs to live with that?    

1 hour ago, Sand__ra said:

My friends told me that my reaction was actually quite soft considering the circumstance, there is absolutely no need for her to have a go on me like that . My stbxw is clearly bitter months after the separation but I just would like to know whether she's still got feelings for me, or is just hurt by whatever reason. I don't want to be mr. right guy here, I just want to avoid any more arguments and provocations.

She wasn't having a go at you.  As far as the comments of someone in the middle of a divorce goes, it was an incredibly benign comment.  And the fact remains that she can write whatever she wishes on her feed as long as it's not slanderous.

 If you want to know how she feels, don't try to judge through social media - go and have a conversation with her.   If her social media feed bothers you, unfriend her.  I'm sure she'd be happy to forward you any nice photos of your child. 

[Sand__ra]

Quote

It is your opinion that it's reasonable.  She may not agree and hence her being annoyed with your presence.

In that case, I may also not agree to pay extra for the clothing, I'll just take the kids with me and buy them directly.

 

Quote

If it's only a one off, why did you say that you need to be present with the appointments and she needs to live with that?    

Because I wanted to share my experience with him with the therapist. We are separated, therefore me and my wife have separate experiences with them.

 

Quote

She wasn't having a go at you.  As far as the comments of someone in the middle of a divorce goes, it was an incredibly benign comment.  And the fact remains that she can write whatever she wishes on her feed as long as it's not slanderous.

 If you want to know how she feels, don't try to judge through social media - go and have a conversation with her.   If her social media feed bothers you, unfriend her.  I'm sure she'd be happy to forward you any nice photos of your child. 

Sorry, I may not have been clear here. When I say "have a go at me" I am referring to the way she spoke to me at the hospital (see my 7:26 PM post). I was following the therapist's instructions due to COVID restrictions, and the agreed time to go back to the office was 10:30. It's not my fault that the therapist decides to dismiss my wife at 10:20 so I can go in. So basically, we had an argument for something that was not our fault, but we only argued because she's acted like I was to blame for not being there at 10:20 when we both clearly heard "please be here at 10:30 and ring the bell".

If my wife had said something like "hey, the doctor has dismissed me earlier, you can come in now" instead of:
Wife - "HEY, I SHOULDN'T BE CALLING YOU, YOU SHOULD BE HERE, WHY ARE YOU NOT HERE?
Me - "Because the therapist has asked me to wait in the reception area and then go back at 10:30"
Wife - "OK, but you can come now, HURRY!"

We would have never had that argument.

After the appointment, I've asked her "was that really necessary, you didn't even apologize?" and she's replied "well, I'm glad we are separated"

[Wiseman2]

Try to co-parent in peace for the sake of your kids. Don't keep dragging them through this or use them as pawns in your war with her.

[Sand__ra]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Try to co-parent in peace for the sake of your kids. Don't keep dragging them through this or use them as pawns in your war with her.

That's what I've been trying to do. But how can I co-parent in peace when she does not make the effort to co-parent in peace?

[mark clemson]

There's is a thing called "grey-rocking". Not sure if it makes sense in your case but it's something some folks do when they don't get along with an ex-spouse, but co-parent the kids. Not sure whether it's for you, but you might look into it.

[Sand__ra]

MAJOR UPDATE:
Today she's told me that I should receive a letter from her attorney sometime next week so we can go and file for divorce. I just replied: "OK"

What is weird is that she's still got feelings for me, otherwise she wouldn't have spent 90 minutes talking to me on the phone 2 nights ago. She said she had the dishes to wash but she ended up talking to me until the end.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Sand__ra

[basil67]

45 minutes ago, Sand__ra said:

MAJOR UPDATE:
Today she's told me that I should receive a letter from her attorney sometime next week so we can go and file for divorce. I just replied: "OK"

What is weird is that she's still got feelings for me, otherwise she wouldn't have spent 90 minutes talking to me on the phone 2 nights ago. She said she had the dishes to wash but she ended up talking to me until the end.

Don't assume that talking on the phone means she has feelings for you.  I used to talk to my estranged husband on the phone.  Not because I had feelings, but because he was still OK to talk to in a brotherly kind of way.   

If she had feelings or wanted to save this, she wouldn't be filing for divorce.

Edited November 24, 2021 by basil67

[Sand__ra]

35 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Don't assume that talking on the phone means she has feelings for you.  I used to talk to my estranged husband on the phone.  Not because I had feelings, but because he was still OK to talk to in a brotherly kind of way.   

If she had feelings or wanted to save this, she wouldn't be filing for divorce.

Ok, but why would she waste her time then?
Anyways, I've learned that I should have gone limited contact from the beginning and avoid her breadcrumbs, she really didn't have the chance to miss me, and that is my fault.

[basil67]

9 minutes ago, Sand__ra said:

Ok, but why would she waste her time then?
Anyways, I've learned that I should have gone limited contact from the beginning and avoid her breadcrumbs, she really didn't have the chance to miss me, and that is my fault.

I can't speak for her, but I didn't see talking with my estranged husband as a waste of time.  Like I said, I was happy to chat in a platonic way.  Mind you, with hindsight, it was a waste of his time talking to me because if his goal was to get back together, it was never going to happen.  

[Sand__ra]

20 hours ago, basil67 said:

I can't speak for her, but I didn't see talking with my estranged husband as a waste of time.  Like I said, I was happy to chat in a platonic way.  Mind you, with hindsight, it was a waste of his time talking to me because if his goal was to get back together, it was never going to happen.  

I see where you're coming from but in this case we spoke about intimate stuff (not about me, about her) which is a bit beyond platonic I think. She might have feelings but only as a special friend, not romantic feelings for sure.
Anyway, I'm deeply hurt and recovering, trying to move on, we're both silent with each other, no more breadcrumbs, I think this is it.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Sand__ra

[Sand__ra]

UPDATE:
I've gone no contact but she ends up reaching out to me with very subtle breadcrumbs, which I ignore. I still haven't received her letter of intention for the divorce.
Every time we speak, the conversation is quite good actually.

Now, I'm stuck on this one:
We both would like to take our kids to some sort of xmas wonderland, but it must be at night which makes it hard work if only one of us goes with them, so we decided it's probably not a good idea to take them, not only because it's a bit far, but also it's at night and crowded.
In the meantime, she's called me and asked if we could go as a family because she really would like to take the kids there. I really would like to take my kids there as well, but I would be breaking the boundary of not doing activities as family, she must experience life without me, so I was advised to avoid any family activities and stick to limited contact.

What would you guys do in my position?
 

[Sand__ra]

Ok, so we have finally divorced. 

Notes:
- She's started going on tinder and facebook dating from the moment I've told her "we will not remain friends after divorce". 
- She's upset due to the fact that I don't want to remain friends with her, but I don't really care anymore.
- Because she's not getting my attention anymore, she's been speaking to other guys on whatsapp, she's active at 3 am, 5 am, sometimes she's online for 1 hour at a time (I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm just curious).

What I've learned:
- After someone asks for a divorce, just go NO CONTACT and let the other person experience life without you. I know it's extremely hard and counter intuitive when your STBX breadcrumbs you especially after a long term relationship, but it's the best solution. I've confused breadcrumbs with her interest in reconnecting slowly but in the end I think she just wanted someone familiar to be her safety net while she was healing. Try to date other girls but do not rebound or start a relationship until you are fully recovered, this can take 8 months or more. Talk to your STBX only about kids and other pending issues.
- Never take your spouse for granted, always be willing to listen to him/her and work on the marriage and NEVER allow family to get involved in your marriage problems, that is law. If you struggle in times like lockdowns, see a doctor. I've got depressed during the COVID lockdowns without noticing. My ex-wife was depressed as well, this is what prevented our relationship from improving.
- Pay attention to attachment styles of your partner. It took me 15 years to notice that my ex-wife has got OCD and she's obssessed with family/kids. She doesn't want a good husband, she wants a super father/male housemaid that thinks exactly like she does, and takes care of the kids exactly like she does. Her expectations were too high for me, her next partner will need to meet higher standards.
- I've learned that things have been always great between us before our second child was born because I felt VALUED and RESPECTED. Things have started going downhill from the moment she started to put the kids first and not making me feel valued and respected, curiously this started to happen as soon as we started running out of money. She made me feel like I was just a bread winner and not a husband, she was probably afraid that our kids would starve or something like that (OF COURSE THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AS LONG AS I'M ALIVE)

Edited March 28, 2022 by Sand__ra

[Wiseman2]

46 minutes ago, Sand__ra said:

I've told her "we will not remain friends after divorce". she was probably afraid that our kids would starve.

Yes, don't stay friends or monitor her personal life. Who she dates, when she's online, etc. is irrelevant now.

However focus on a cooperative co-parenting plan so your children are not collateral damage. 

Do you have an organized consistent custody/visitation and child support order from the courts? 

Less harm to the kids if things are consistent, organized and you two cooperate for their sake.

[mark clemson]

Even with a relatively amicable divorce or breakup, I think "staying friends" can be a big ask. I think sometimes folks don't realize how much of an ask it is, particularly if you are there and watch as the prior partner starts dating around. That can be pretty traumatic for some folks.

[glows]

57 minutes ago, Sand__ra said:

I don't really care anymore.
 

Right. So focus on this. Not caring. There are conflicting emotions during and for some after divorce. Keep things strictly about your kids’ welfare and upbringing and resist the urge to spy on her. Before you react on that impulse in the moment ask yourself how you’ll feel after the act of checking up on her and is what she’s up to going to affect you at all? Actually check yourself before you respond to those impulses. 

I guarantee you the first time, second, third times you cut that impulse off and stop checking or realize needing it is false (not required in your healing forward), you’ll feel like a new person. Focus on your actions not hers.

[dramafreezone]

3 hours ago, Sand__ra said:

Ok, so we have finally divorced. 

Notes:
- She's started going on tinder and facebook dating from the moment I've told her "we will not remain friends after divorce". 
- She's upset due to the fact that I don't want to remain friends with her, but I don't really care anymore.
- Because she's not getting my attention anymore, she's been speaking to other guys on whatsapp, she's active at 3 am, 5 am, sometimes she's online for 1 hour at a time (I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm just curious).

What I've learned:
- After someone asks for a divorce, just go NO CONTACT and let the other person experience life without you. I know it's extremely hard and counter intuitive when your STBX breadcrumbs you especially after a long term relationship, but it's the best solution. I've confused breadcrumbs with her interest in reconnecting slowly but in the end I think she just wanted someone familiar to be her safety net while she was healing. Try to date other girls but do not rebound or start a relationship until you are fully recovered, this can take 8 months or more. Talk to your STBX only about kids and other pending issues.
- Never take your spouse for granted, always be willing to listen to him/her and work on the marriage and NEVER allow family to get involved in your marriage problems, that is law. If you struggle in times like lockdowns, see a doctor. I've got depressed during the COVID lockdowns without noticing. My ex-wife was depressed as well, this is what prevented our relationship from improving.
- Pay attention to attachment styles of your partner. It took me 15 years to notice that my ex-wife has got OCD and she's obssessed with family/kids. She doesn't want a good husband, she wants a super father/male housemaid that thinks exactly like she does, and takes care of the kids exactly like she does. Her expectations were too high for me, her next partner will need to meet higher standards.
- I've learned that things have been always great between us before our second child was born because I felt VALUED and RESPECTED. Things have started going downhill from the moment she started to put the kids first and not making me feel valued and respected, curiously this started to happen as soon as we started running out of money. She made me feel like I was just a bread winner and not a husband, she was probably afraid that our kids would starve or something like that (OF COURSE THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AS LONG AS I'M ALIVE)

The "I want us to be friends" is such a selfish mindset.  It's that person thinking of themselves, not acknolwedging that you need to move on and heal yourself.  Being friends with someone you just broke up with is like re-opening a wound.  Now of course it's reasonable to be civil especially since you have kids together, but you have no obligation to be her friend.

Lots of interesting insights, and I don't want to tell you what you're justified in feeling since I've never been married and have not experienced that type of pain of getting divorced.  Thank you for sharing what's been going on with you.

Edited March 28, 2022 by dramafreezone

[Sand__ra]

Well, she's got a HUGE ego/pride. From the moment I've said to her "we're not going to be friends after divorce" she's got upset and sad but didn't insist to be friends, her face was just sad. Later that day she texted me something like "well, I never wanted to remain friends with you, it's just you and I shared a big chunk of our lives together".

That's when she's started going on tinder and adding males to her FB and IG, she's added 4 guys and then stopped there, that's why I assume she's falling for someone else as she stopped looking further. My sister told me it was a sort of revenge because she's got hurt as she was never expecting I would unfriend her from social media and not remain friends.

I believe this backfired on me but it was required, I'm suffering now because I haven't fully healed and I can see that she's been talking to someone on whatsapp, she doesn't even care about our kids' nursery app anymore, she's been literally dedicating most of her time to this new person, however sometimes she tries to make me jealous (things like "hey, please be on time to pick up the kids because I'm going on a date"). I still feel connected to the "family life" identity and I'm struggling to get dates, I'm getting old and bald and I live in a room, it's not a good place to be, I can only get away with it by getting rich and that's what I'm focusing on.
On the other hand my ex wife is attractive and she can hook up easily (although she's a family centered woman, not a typical ONS girl), and I have to be honest, this kills me inside. I shouldn't be having this mindset, but I'm really struggling to let it go because we could have worked on the marriage after the storm (COVID) but she just gave up just like many other spouses around the world. OK, I was a bit tired of the kids stressing me out, but I've always loved her and my family, and I now realize that I love her more than I thought.
This COVID situation has really affected me mentally and now that I see things more clearly, we both should have gone to a doctor, not a marriage therapist.
I'm really angry, this pandemic has ruined my life, I was unable to give my best when I had the opportunity throughout the last 2 years because I was depressed, our normal lives have been taken away temporarily. I failed to see that, my ex-wife failed to see that and now it's too little too late.

Adding to that, sometimes we have to go out together to take our eldest to a therapist and it's obviously hard when I'm driving and she's sitting next to me texting god knows who. I wish I could say no, but I'm just going because it's my responsibility as a father.

[glows]

31 minutes ago, Sand__ra said:

my responsibility as a father.

Yes, this being a father is what matters now. That pain or loss isn't going to go away instantaneously. It fades with time. Not sure what you mean by getting rich - why not focus on finding something more comfortable if you're not happy with the current living situation. Dating now doesn't seem like a good idea.

Edited March 29, 2022 by glows

[Sand__ra]

1 hour ago, glows said:

Yes, this being a father is what matters now. That pain or loss isn't going to go away instantaneously. It fades with time. Not sure what you mean by getting rich - why not focus on finding something more comfortable if you're not happy with the current living situation. Dating now doesn't seem like a good idea.

Yes it fades, but it comes back every time I see her in person.
Getting rich so I can buy my own place, a nice car and go out a lot, I need that freedom. My hands are tied at the moment, most of my coworkers and friends are married, therefore they don't go out that much. Fortunately, I'm changing jobs, and hopefully I shall meet more people.
I want to date so I can forget about her. I just can't stand the vision of her with some other guy and I'm afraid that she lowers her standards and gets involved with some low value man.
She used to be really attached to me and I was used to get that attention, I got used to it and that's probably why I took her for granted. Unfortunately I'm one of those that feels much more secure and confident when I feel loved and wanted, my performance at work improves as well.
I've realized that she values family more than anything, when she was attached to me before she had kids, she was actually attached to her future children. She was probably expecting that my fatherhood skills would match her motherhood skills, but I'm not like that, and she had plenty of time (8 years at least) to get to know me.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sand__ra

[glows]

9 minutes ago, Sand__ra said:

Yes it fades, but it comes back every time I see her in person.
Getting rich so I can buy my own place, a nice car and go out a lot, I need that freedom. My hands are tied at the moment, most of my coworkers and friends are married, therefore they don't go out that much. Fortunately, I'm changing jobs, and hopefully I shall meet more people.
I want to date so I can forget about her. I just can't stand the vision of her with some other guy and I'm afraid that she lowers her standards and gets involved with some low value man.
She used to be really attached to me and I was used to get that attention, I got used to it and that's probably why I took her for granted. Unfortunately I'm one of those that feels much more secure and confident when I feel loved and wanted, my performance at work improves as well.
I've realized that she values family more than anything, when she was attached to me before she had kids, she was actually attached to her future children. She was probably expecting that my fatherhood skills would match her motherhood skills, but I'm not like that, and she had plenty of time (8 years at least) to get to know me.

Changing jobs may also change your outlook. And if you move, you may feel differently about the people you associate with or who you choose to date.

There's a lot influx or changing, lots of changes after something like divorce. You may feel differently about yourself too and the way you think of this marriage. Work on you in the meantime and I agree meeting new people is a good idea.

Unfortunately the flip side is that partners will realize when they're a rebound and you may outgrow any relationships you start now when you're not fully over your ex.

 

[CM71]

I went through something similar. Met my now ex-wife in 2005. She had 2 small kids and their dad took off and moved across the country.  We dated 4 years and then were married.  After 8 years of marriage and me raising her kids she had an affair and left me for an old boyfriend she dated 26 years earlier.  I was shattered and tried to work it out.  She wanted no part in that.  She married the guy the day after our divorce was final.  I met a great woman and have been with her since then.  I had no contact with her for 4 years and recently had to meet up with her to sign a real estate document.  I found out she left the guy 3 different times and is now divorcing him.  She said I was the best thing that ever happened to her and she regrets everything.  She asked of I was still with my girlfriend and if I'm happy.  Of course I said yes.  A part of me feels vindicated but I have to admit that many feelings resurfaced, feelings from sadness, anger, and even love.  I told her I forgave her and wish only the best for her.  I never got any therapy but sometimes feel I should have.  It's all very sad.  The grass usually isn't greener and I think about what could have been.  I know she does as well.  I think we had a very good marriage but she just got caught up in an emotional affair and threw everything we had away.

[glows]

54 minutes ago, CM71 said:

I went through something similar. Met my now ex-wife in 2005. She had 2 small kids and their dad took off and moved across the country.  We dated 4 years and then were married.  After 8 years of marriage and me raising her kids she had an affair and left me for an old boyfriend she dated 26 years earlier.  I was shattered and tried to work it out.  She wanted no part in that.  She married the guy the day after our divorce was final.  I met a great woman and have been with her since then.  I had no contact with her for 4 years and recently had to meet up with her to sign a real estate document.  I found out she left the guy 3 different times and is now divorcing him.  She said I was the best thing that ever happened to her and she regrets everything.  She asked of I was still with my girlfriend and if I'm happy.  Of course I said yes.  A part of me feels vindicated but I have to admit that many feelings resurfaced, feelings from sadness, anger, and even love.  I told her I forgave her and wish only the best for her.  I never got any therapy but sometimes feel I should have.  It's all very sad.  The grass usually isn't greener and I think about what could have been.  I know she does as well.  I think we had a very good marriage but she just got caught up in an emotional affair and threw everything we had away.

That is very sad but also good of you to have moved on and found someone else who can make you happy. Thankfully the both of you didn't have kids.