Is it true that men do not find women attractive who are career ambitious?

[ironpony]

I was watching this video on dating, and they talk about it at 14:25 into the video I came across:

[]

I found this very interesting, because I just so happen to start exclusively dating a woman who is in college, and not really far into any career, and I picked up over another woman I was seeing, who did have a quite bigger career advancement in a company by comparison.  I chose the other woman because I felt myself more drawn to her chemistry wise, but I now wonder if, it's some inner primordial genetic thing built inside, where I as a guy would prefer a woman with not as much of a career, without even realizing it strangely?

What do you think out of curiosity?  Thank you for any input on it!

Edited July 29, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed commercial link

[Andy_K]

He's pretty much correct in the video.

I think there's a confusion between correlation and causation at play in the 'career women are less attractive' debate

Women who pursue career advancement tend to have a higher chance of being abrasive, ruthless and self-centered. Exactly the same qualities as you'll find in many highly driven career-oriented men too, I might add. However, for the men those qualities will be more than offset by the greater status/wealth so they rarely struggle to find partners. For women on the other hand, those attributes will massively turn off potential partners whilst the extra career prestige makes very little difference at all to their perceived desirability.

Hence they have more difficulty finding partners, and then due to their prickly nature, decide to make a big noise about it being all men's fault...

Edited July 28, 2021 by Andy_K

[Miss Spider]

I always think it’s weird when I hear that because a lot of the accomplished men I’ve encountered have been in relationships with women who are pretty accomplished themselves.  I feel like the thing I’ve witnessed the most is people tend to date within their circle/career/education level . It makes sense to me Bc you don’t have a job either yet, ironpony? I got to say that dating men way more successful or educated than me  has always been a little bit uncomfortable even though it’s more socially acceptable, I guess, so it may be even more of a factor for you as a guy 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Eternal Sunshine]

I think men like to feel superior on that front. So an accomplished man will like it if a woman has a career, as long as she is not more accomplished than him. Other less accomplished men will not like it, often it's subconscious.

Unfortunately, accomplished men are in high demand (much more so than accomplished women) so they almost never need to use dating apps. If there is a small window when they are single, they are usually snapped up very quickly. This leaves uhm less accomplished men on dating apps. I almost never tell them what I do and minimize my career a lot (which kind of makes me sad). Then there are another kind of men on dating apps that are actually looking to freeload and target lonely women that earn a lot.

[Taramere]

21 hours ago, ironpony said:

I was watching this video on dating, and they talk about it at 14:25 into the video I came across:

[]

I found this very interesting, because I just so happen to start exclusively dating a woman who is in college, and not really far into any career, and I picked up over another woman I was seeing, who did have a quite bigger career advancement in a company by comparison.  I chose the other woman because I felt myself more drawn to her chemistry wise, but I now wonder if, it's some inner primordial genetic thing built inside, where I as a guy would prefer a woman with not as much of a career, without even realizing it strangely?

What do you think out of curiosity?  Thank you for any input on it!

In any discussion about what men attracts men to/repels them from women and vice versa, you're probably going to hear a lot more about what they're put off by than by what they actually like - because it's an opportunity to vent, and if you provide that opportunity a lot of people are going to grab it with both hands.  

With regard to the discussion they get into at that point in the video...I think a woman talking a lot about her career success and earning power may well be unattractive to men.  However, there are other things that come with that success and high earning power that are going to be very attractive to men.  Namely, the resources to dress expensively, get a lot of salon treatments, maybe some cosmetic surgery etc.  They're also more likely to be well connected, which will result in them being out and about in the "right" places.  Men often talk about what women say not matching up with their actions - which is often true, and the same thing goes for men.  They might say "I don't care about a woman's earning power, status etc etc" and they might really mean that. 

However, the chances are that they'll be impressed by various things that about the woman that have a direct relation to her earning power and status.  There are plenty of men out there who are very status conscious...and when you look at men at the upper end of the spectrum, there's usually an expectation that the women they pair up with will be fairly successful in their own right.  After all, competition is fierce at that stratum and there are going to be a lot of women who have it all (youth, looks and success/financial security from a career where youth and looks earn big bucks).  Even in careers outside modelling, the arts etc, good looking people are more likely to earn promotions, higher salaries etc. 

So I think it's misguided when men have these discussions where they're insisting that career success in a woman is unattractive to them...because the bottom line is that assuming the woman has the right qualifications (and we're living in an age where an unprecedented number of people of both sexes have professional qualifications), and a fair amount of social confidence, good looks are likely to help propel her higher in a career...so the likelihood is that the same things that are attracting a man romantically are helping her careerwise.  Same going with men (ie that good looks are far more likely to help than hinder them in all walks of life, including career success).

As to why women talk about their career success...well, being pretty and attractive to men isn't something that in itself provides a woman with financial stability.  It might provide nothing more than a constant stream of men wanting her to be their FWB.  I think that conversation you linked to is completely sexist.  It assumes that women are constantly thinking in terms of "what can I do that will make me more attractive to men" - when the reality is that women face the same stresses and responsibilities in life that men do, and thinking in terms of how to cope with those stresses and responsibilities takes up a lot of our time.  Being independent and surviving life's trials is as important to women as it is to men....but those men in the video link lack the empathy to put themselves in women's shoes and think about that.  They can't think beyond "here's what is attractive to me (and that's all that matters)".

Edited July 29, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Quoted post

[jspice]

Men who are secure in what they have to offer someone wil be proud of their partner’s accomplishments just as she will be proud of his. 
 

Women can’t win with men because they’re described as “prickly” when competing at work but if they decide to let a man take care of them they’re a gold digger. 
 

So women should work but not move too far up the career ladder to make men feel better about themselves. No thanks. 
 

Women should do whatever the hell they want and insecure men should leave the ambitious career women alone. Easy. 
 

I don’t want a man who isn’t well-educated. I don’t want someone who works in retail or as a personal trainer or who works in a factory. He won’t fit into my life and I won’t fit into his. I don’t  have the energy to prop up someone’s ego because I’M too ambitious. How about he’s not ambitious enough.

these days more women care less about what men think. We don’t exist because men validate our existence so men can find whatever the hell they want attractive. 

Some women will acquiesce to men’s tastes and others won’t. You men should choose accordingly. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by jspice

[d0nnivain]

I don't think it's primordial. I think it depends on the man.  Some men frankly aren't "man enough" to handle a woman who has a better job than they do.  That is OK because those types of women don't want those types of guys either. 

It doesn't really matter what society says.  You like who you like.  If it's working for the people involved, that is all that matters. 

But @ironpony I caution you, that because your new GF is young, in college & still growing as a person while you are a fully formed adult, there is a chance she might surpass you by the time she's ready to graduate.  You are compatible now but her star is still on the rise.  What happens when she becomes the independent high-powered  career woman you have been trying to avoid? 

[Blind-Sided]

I didn't watch the vid... but to answer the question... that's just silly.  BUT................................................

1) If a girl is so focused on her career... then she won't have time to really focus on a relationship. 

2) If the girl's career is more lucrative that the guy's career is... then on some level... he may feel "Lesser" of a person because of it.  There is still a ingrained mentallty that that man needs to be the "Bread Winner". 

Personally... I don't have any issues with it.  One of the girls I met after my D was a lawyer... and even ran for local Judge in the last elections. On some level... I was hopping it would work out... but between out schedules... we just didn't get to see each other enough. On the other hand... my new GF was able to spend time with me, and the connection was made. 

[chillii]

4 hours ago, Andy_K said:

He's pretty much correct in the video.

I think there's a confusion between correlation and causation at play in the 'career women are less attractive' debate

Women who pursue career advancement tend to have a higher chance of being abrasive, ruthless and self-centered. Exactly the same qualities as you'll find in many highly driven career-oriented men too, I might add. However, for the men those qualities will be more than offset by the greater status/wealth so they rarely struggle to find partners. For women on the other hand, those attributes will massively turn off potential partners whilst the extra career prestige makes very little difference at all to their perceived desirability.

Hence they have more difficulty finding partners, and then due to their prickly nature, decide to make a big noise about it being all men's fault...

 

Yep , exactly , it's always mens fault , there's always something wrong with them just bc they don't like her, it's already coming out in this thread as expected.

But what you've said is the real reality.  l don't want some busy busy strung out chip on her shoulder type , which is how most of them seem to be. They'd make terrible partners my woman would walk all over them.

You can pick the good ones even women in big business , even ceo's or Prime ministers, that really know where it's at and they'll be married every time. They're still warm and feminine , way too smart to let any career even as big as those , ruin whom they really are, they use it, you see it. l could go for a couple of them that come to mind myself . They aren't only highly intelligent , but they're also very very smart too and still beautiful women .

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by chillii

[jspice]

10 minutes ago, chillii said:

 

Yep , exactly , it's always mens fault , there's always something wrong with them just bc they don't like her, it's already coming out in this thread as expected.

But what you've said is the real reality.  l don't want some busy busy strung out chip on her shoulder type , which is how most of them seem to be. They'd make terrible partners my woman would walk all over them.

You can pick the good ones even women in big business , even ceo's or Prime ministers, that really know where it's at and they'll be married every time. They're still warm and feminine , way too smart to let any career even as big as those , ruin whom they really are, they use it, you see it. l could go for a couple of them that come to mind myself . They aren't only highly intelligent , but they're also very very smart too and still beautiful women .

 

 

 

🤣🤣🤣

nobody said anything is men’s fault but if you think women should just sit by while a bunch of men tell her why she’s not worth dating, you need to think again. 
 

Your girlfriend clearly sees something in you that others don’t. And you see something in her that you don’t see in a woman who has career ambitions. “Feminine” is usually code for “doormat” in these parts. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by jspice

[Miss Spider]

25 minutes ago, chillii said:

 

Yep , exactly , it's always mens fault , there's always something wrong with them just bc they don't like her, it's already coming out in this thread as expected.

But what you've said is the real reality.  l don't want some busy busy strung out chip on her shoulder type , which is how most of them seem to be. They'd make terrible partners my woman would walk all over them.

You can pick the good ones even women in big business , even ceo's or Prime ministers, that really know where it's at and they'll be married every time. They're still warm and feminine , way too smart to let any career even as big as those , ruin whom they really are, they use it, you see it. l could go for a couple of them that come to mind myself . They aren't only highly intelligent , but they're also very very smart too and still beautiful women .

 

 

 

I completely agree with that. Doesn’t mean they can’t be sweet. I think another problem I see often is women saying/thinking “I’m successful, so I deserve a man who is also successful “ and it doesn’t necessarily work like that. I’ve seen that here before. That’s a just-world fallacy. A successful man isn’t necessarily checking for the same things that you are, and a lot of men put  career success farther down on the list than a lot of women do.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Andy_K]

13 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

I completely agree with that. Doesn’t mean they can’t be sweet. I think another problem I see often is women saying/thinking “I’m successful, so I deserve a man who is also successful “ and it doesn’t necessarily work like that. I’ve seen that here before. That’s a just-world fallacy. A successful man isn’t necessarily checking for the same things that you are, and a lot of men put  career success farther down on the list than a lot of women do.

Exactly this... which is why i'd always suggest that people should be offering far MORE themselves than they're actually looking for in a partner. Whoever you meet won't hold the exactly the same values and priorities as you, and they will have a bunch of qualities that you don't notice or care about too. You need to be offering way more in the hope it matches up with what they value. If everyone looks for an equal or thinks they deserve like for like, everyone ends up single. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Andy_K

[Lotsgoingon]

Lots of guys find accomplished women sexy.

[Prudence V]

2 hours ago, jspice said:

Women should do whatever the hell they want and insecure men should leave the ambitious career women alone. Easy. 

Exactly! Let us handle the high-flyers whose ambition matches our own, and leave the bottom-feeders to nurse their bruised egos with less ambitious women who are happy to play nursemaid to fragile egos. Win-win. 

[poppyfields]

41 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Lots of guys find accomplished women sexy.

Is it their accomplishment they find sexy OR are the women just SEXY and feminine but also happened to be accomplished? 

I tend to think it's the latter.  A woman can be intelligent, educated, and have a great lucrative career but she is soft, sweet, feminine and sexy away from the office. 

She might even be soft and feminine IN the office but knows how to balance it with being strong and tough when necessary.

That's her nature, her inner core, and what men are drawn to.  That she's accomplished can be a bonus but it's not why he's attracted.  Not from what men have told me and my experience.

It's the same for what attracts women to men, imo..  Speaking for myself, I am attracted to a man's inner core - strength, confidence, intelligence, driven.

If those qualities result in him becoming successful and accomplished then it's a bonus.

I know there are women who would find a man's financial success sexy on its own.  However, I and other women I know cannot relate to that. At all!

For example, men who came into a large inheritance or won the lottery, but who were otherwise lazy as ****, watched videos or gambled all day, or even worked out all day and looked like a Greek god, no thank you! 

I also agree with @jspicein many respects. 

Men who become insecure by a women's success /accomplishments, best to avoid because that insecure mindset will trickle down into other areas as well.

Like not allowing opposite sex friendships /acquaintances or remaining good friends with an ex.

I mean insecure is just insecure no matter how you slice and dice it.

No thank you! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by poppyfields

[ironpony]

Sorry for not being able to respond to all the responses so far, they came in faster than I thought!

 

3 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

I don't think it's primordial. I think it depends on the man.  Some men frankly aren't "man enough" to handle a woman who has a better job than they do.  That is OK because those types of women don't want those types of guys either. 

It doesn't really matter what society says.  You like who you like.  If it's working for the people involved, that is all that matters. 

But @ironpony I caution you, that because your new GF is young, in college & still growing as a person while you are a fully formed adult, there is a chance she might surpass you by the time she's ready to graduate.  You are compatible now but her star is still on the rise.  What happens when she becomes the independent high-powered  career woman you have been trying to avoid? 

Oh well I didn't think I was trying to avoid a high powered career woman on a conscious level at all, but was just wondering if it was subconscious without me realizing it.  I don't know what to do when she comes a high powered career woman, I guess just choose to be secure with it?

[Prudence V]

12 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

A woman can be intelligent, educated, and have a great lucrative career but she is soft, sweet, feminine and sexy away from the office. 

Not all men are so threatened that they need their women to be “soft, sweet and feminine”. There are plenty of *real* men, who not only can handle, but are attracted to, women who have / are 

13 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

strength, confidence, intelligence, driven.

just like their own. 

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

Not all men are so threatened that they need their women to be “soft, sweet and feminine”. There are plenty of *real* men, who not only can handle, but are attracted to, women who have / are 

just like their own. 

I agree with you, soft and feminine and strong, driven, intelligent, accomplished are NOT mutually exclusive.

That is exactly what I just said, so we agree. 

It's a balance. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

9 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I agree with you, soft and feminine and strong, driven, intelligent, accomplished are NOT mutually exclusive.

That is exactly what I just said, so we agree. 

It's a balance. 

To add, I am the perfect example.  I am starting law school full time end of August, my goal is becoming a criminal defense attorney!

But does that mean I can't be feminine and soft anymore?

No!  Hardly. That's my nature. 

Again, it's a balance and men love that balance in my experience.

It has nothing to do with a man being a "real" man, I am not even sure what a "real" man is. 

A man is a mix of many different qualities, just like women.  And they can be attracted to that mix same as women.

No need to be placing men or women in boxes, again it's knowing how to balance all our different qualities that make us attractive.  On the inside and out.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by poppyfields

[vwisme]

Your first problem was listening to Fresh & Fit. While I wouldn't throw out the whole "manosphere", I find their particular corner of it unfavorable to creating and maintaining a healthy and whole relationship. Word of advice when watching these things, many times it's necessary to filter what you're hearing by who is saying it. 

[Taramere]

34 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

To add, I am the perfect example.  I am starting law school full time end of August, my goal is becoming a criminal defense attorney!

But does that mean I can't be feminine and soft anymore?

 

Not at work.  Not if you don't want to be eaten alive.

[vwisme]

53 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Again, it's a balance and men love that balance in my experience.

It has nothing to do with a man being a "real" man, I am not even sure what a "real" man is. 

A man is a mix of many different qualities, just like women.  And they can be attracted to that mix same as women.

 

This exactly. I grew up with what many would consider a very high value mother and women in my family are very career oriented. Women with loving marriages and women divorced. All in the spectrum. Grandma ain't raise no...nvm. Haha 

You know what I personally dislike? Men (and women) being thrown into a box. It's not fair and a slap in the face of all that is humanity. We are all people. 

As someone who's in tech and doing fairly well financially, I probably wouldn't date someone who isn't driven/ambitious because for me I've seen it as a correlation to a growth mindset. I love learning and having a partner who is driven just does something for me. 

Quick note: I cannot tell you how many women I've dated/been on dates with that are surprised by me celebrating their career goals. I'm always being told it's not the norm. And these are women who love being in their feminine. You want a partner so why would you not support them. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

I dated in the 80s through to 2000 and every single guy I dated, no matter what he did for a living (these were not high powered Wall Street execs), wanted me to have a career. Not a job at the Dairy Queen getting by, a career. That didn't mean being b-buster-ish. It meant, having a calling of my own. Goals. Something bigger.

Did this really go backward? I'm surprised if it did.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Ugh, that video. And look at the comments. The guys all agreeing with this idea are unable to "get" women (and are livid about that), are disgusted with women in general, and can't wait until the women are "older" so they (these dudes) can flaunt "younger women" to get back at somebody who rejected them 20 years earlier. (Who definitely doesn't care at that point.)

I don't know that I'd take a group of unsuccessful unattractive woman-disliking guys and a host catering to that for views as my proof of "what men want and don't want." I'd be asking guys successful in the world and in relationships instead. JMO.

Just look through the comments, you'll see all the tired red pill stuff. The host even launches right into it with "what college girls do" in digging for old dudes in their 30s who have good cars because young girls just go digging for material stuff. OMG man. 😏

Edited July 28, 2021 by CaliforniaGirl

[Uruktopi]

21 hours ago, ironpony said:

I was watching this video on dating, and they talk about it at 14:25 into the video I came across:

[]

I found this very interesting, because I just so happen to start exclusively dating a woman who is in college, and not really far into any career, and I picked up over another woman I was seeing, who did have a quite bigger career advancement in a company by comparison.  I chose the other woman because I felt myself more drawn to her chemistry wise, but I now wonder if, it's some inner primordial genetic thing built inside, where I as a guy would prefer a woman with not as much of a career, without even realizing it strangely?

What do you think out of curiosity?  Thank you for any input on it!

Not in my personal case.

The three important women in my life had their own strong proffesional sides. May be "career ambitious" is not a good description for them, but surelly stongly commited with their activities and passionate about.

Only with the first one, the mother of my daughters, she found it (let´s say) conflicting and left us. Was more about her artistic career than about the academic one and more related to her contradictions than mine.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator