Author Love2Love78 Posted August 26, 2021 Author Posted August 26, 2021 4 hours ago, poppyfields said: ^^What the hell is going on in the mental health industry these days, geez! I have never known a psychologist or a psychiatrist? to give relationship /dating advice to patients, that is NOT their role OR their place. A list of "shoulds" and "should nots"? They don't know your girlfriend, they are not treating your girlfriend, your girlfriend is not their patient, that is totally unprofessional and inappropriate. Their role is to help YOU understand why YOU are drawn to such dysfunctional in the first place! And help YOU navigate the process of healing. Not give "relationship" advice and provide a list of shoulds and should nots, I am utterly astounded, shocked. My advice? Find a better psychologist/therapist. Someone who can help you understand your unhealthy attractions and help you navigate the process of healing and becoming more whole so you are no longer attracted to such dysfunction. Not give relationship advice re one particular relationship, a list of shoulds and should nots. Essentially putting a band aid on a deep gaping wound versus treating it, HEALING it. Totally unprofessional, again I am utterly shocked by that. Well, as far as the dating advice, she didn't present it that way per say. She simply reminded me of the "six month minimum move-in rule" she told me, and said I failed to respect that boundary her and I talked about, which gives you time to see the person through various events over time (holidays, birthdays, crisis, etc.). Made sense that no matter how much time you spend with them, it still takes months and months to see how they are in various situations. So, she basically focused on me and what I should have done there. Then with the walking away, she addressed it in regards to my issues in the past of not respecting my own personal boundaries, and asked me if I felt the anger outbursts that happened should have been something I should have stuck with, or walked away from? Obviously in hindsight, I know I should have walked away. She also pointed out that if someone says they know they need to work on it, but they still have the issue, there is no reason to believe they are going to "fix it" for you. It just means they are aware of an issue they haven't fixed (or can't fix). And she also said of course in the beginning, the person is always going to tell you they are going to work on any flaws they have for you. But again, she did keep the focus primarily on me and boundaries. So, I wasn't just given a list of "shoulds" and "should nots." We reviewed the boundaries, what I need to do out of respect for myself, and reviewed them in regards to this relationship. As far as why I am drawn to this dysfunctional, it is something I have talked to her about, as well as previously with the other psychologists. None of them have a clear answer. They all tried to write it off as "bad luck" and that at my age, it is hard to find someone without baggage or issues, as they tend to get scooped up quick. Also, for some reason, they said in our area, for whatever reason, there are far more people with psychological issues than the national average. So, they said that when people move here and start dating, a complaint they get a lot is how bad their dating experiences are, and the people start blaming themselves and that something went wrong with them, when in actuality, it is indeed just bad luck and people that put on convincing acts. I mean when I get to know someone, it's not like I intentionally look for someone who needs "fixing." I look for an equal - someone who is a single parent who holds their own, has goals, intelligence, honesty, a good heart, and a handful of others are at the top of my list. But, as soon as I hear about someone's issues, I get wary. Problem is, by the time they come to surface, I'm usually already emotionally invested, so it's hard to just walk away. I know I do need to throttle my feelings more and have been working on that too. Again, this last relationship was an exception because of how hard she pushed, and how confident she seemed in us building a relationship together. I do know I have a very high tolerance for dysfunctional, just because my childhood was quite dysfunctional. But, do I consciously look for it? No. Plus again, I don't expect anyone to be perfect at our age. I also don't know enough about psychology to know what is something that would just take time for them to overcome as a relationship grows, or how much is a permanent problem. For example, current relationship... With all she told me about her, once the anger issues came to surface, I thought they might be there due to triggers from her ex husband. So, I thought to myself "Ok, she has some stuff to work on due to emotional wounds. But, she acknowledges she needs to work on it, wants to work on it, and so I will give her a chance to do that." So, instead of just walking away, I gave her a chance to show me she was going to work on it. She did do the relationship book with me for a while, gave me suggestions on how to handle her during her anger outbursts, etc. Then later, the couple's counseling. She was trying, at least to an extent. It just wasn't enough. If I knew it was something that was not going to be an easy fix, I'd have walked away. But again as I stated previously, at my age (40s), I don't expect anyone to be perfect. And with the stuff I've been through in my past, all the more that I don't feel I have a place to judge. Anyway, I do plan to make the focus of our next few sessions to be on what could be drawing me to these types. I am trying to figure it out myself too. Maybe because there are some things I still want to improve myself in my life, so I look for others that have things to improve on as well so we can grow together? I don't know, just a thought, but it's one thing for them to be changing career paths, planning to move or buy a house, things like that are one thing. It's an entirely different matter when they have unresolved psychological problems. That I definitely DO NOT want, at least not on a conscious level. Can't figure out why I'd want that on a sub-conscious level as well. Another suggestion given to me lately was to avoid the free dating sites (which is where I found all my latest dating experiences except one of them), and if I'm going to go the online route, use paid ones. They said the free sites tend to get the ones that aren't as serious about a relationship, aren't sure what they want, or are coming in with serious damage. They said the paid sites help filter out a lot of the bad ones, as if they aren't serious, why pay for a profile? Makes complete sense. I just went with free sites because I figured why pay when I can get it for free. But, I think that might help in the future.
poppyfields Posted August 26, 2021 Posted August 26, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said: As far as why I am drawn to this dysfunctional, it is something I have talked to her about, as well as previously with the other psychologists. None of them have a clear answer. They all tried to write it off as "bad luck" and that at my age, it is hard to find someone without baggage or issues, as they tend to get scooped up quick. Like some of us have been suggesting, find a new therapist. The above is just not acceptable; therapists and psychologist are trained to at least try to help you determine and resolve the issue, NOT shrug it off claiming "bad luck" or at your age, someone without baggage is hard to find, that is NOT even the point! Again, I am just appalled and no disrespect but I am finding it difficult to believe now that you have even seen a therapist, the above is so whacked. I mean I DO believe you, it's just hard to believe, that's all. I mean this is basic standard stuff psychologists deal with every day. It's what they went through years of schooling and training for! $100-$150 per hour to be told it's bad luck? Good lord. Anyway, nuff said from me Love2Love78, all the best. Edited August 26, 2021 by poppyfields 2
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 26, 2021 Author Posted August 26, 2021 3 hours ago, spiderowl said: Just reading your initial messages, OP, I am struck by how many abusive relationships you have ended up in. If what you are saying is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) you seem to be drawn to women who lie, get angry, are irresponsible financially, and who cheat. There is something fundamentally wrong with the kind of characters you are attracted to. You mentioned that with your recent ex things 'felt right'. You also mentioned the compatibilities. We look at compatibility as a rational thing - are they responsible with money like me, do they eat the same kind of diet, do we share similar values - whereas feelings are a different matter. If feelings dominate for you, then I would guess that you are 'feeling' the attraction, that someone is right for you, then rationalising it (coming up with reasons to justify why you are compatible with each other). In fact, you are not compatible with any of the women you mentioned. You are looking for love and stability; they are full of drama, volatile behaviour and possibly trauma. I think it might help you to examine what it is about feeling that someone is right for you. That feeling is what is drawing you to these women and is keeping you in relationships that are seriously flawed. You might like to consider if: - you expect volatility in a relationship - you prefer dramatic people because they are not boring - you are drawn to people you think you can help - you are drawn to highly emotional people - you are drawn to people who are touchy-feely or are very physically driven - you are drawn to women who have an air of mystery or seem to be hiding something. I don't think you should try to keep this relationship going when it has been so on and off. It is on and off for a reason - lack of compatibility/volatility. It is toxic to you. I think counselling might help you to find out why you are ending up in toxic relationships. Your need for a good, loving, affectionate relationship is natural and there is nothing wrong with you seeking that. What you need to find out is why you are also attracting toxicity as well. I mention 'touchy-feely' above because you mention that cuddles, hugs, etc. are all really important to you. There is nothing wrong with that and it is something most people will want too. The reason I mention it is that it could be a weak point for you. Is it possible that you are drawn to these women because they meet your needs on that level and then you overlook the other flaws? Physical contact is a deep need and many have stayed in problematic relationships 'because the sex was good'. It could be your Achilles Heel though. What you need, ideally, is a woman who is happy being physical but has lots of other good qualities too. Something else to consider is that, I do not know what you look for a first dates, for example. If being physical, kissing, cuddling, touch generally is really important to you from the very start, you may be ignoring women who are a bit more reserved physically (i.e. have more self-control) in favour of those who give you what you want from the start. It might take longer to get to know the right woman for you and for her to be physical. One thing I would say is please do not excuse bad behaviour because someone claims past trauma, a bad ex, or anything else. Yes, these can be reasons why people cannot hold down relationships but if you excuse it and stay with that person you risk ending up in a bad relationship because you did not see the warning signs. It is sad that people have past traumas - many of us have - but we don't all become abusive or dishonest in relationships because of it. Stop making excuses for women's poor behaviour. Thanks for all the feedback. To start, as far as "compatibilities," I essentially have a list of qualities I need. To start with the basics, of course someone wanting something long-term and monogamous like me. Physical attraction to at least some extent, although not the top of my list. Someone who is intelligent, educated, affectionate (my top love language is touch, so that has to be high on their list too), motivated (goals/aspirations), family oriented (loves kids and willing to be a part of my children's lives), kind-hearted, understanding, open-minded, mutual interests, effective communicator (this current one failed that miserably, as have a few others), values a relationship as I do, generally happy and optimistic, spiritual but not credulous, and a handful of others. It at least gives you an idea of the types of things I look for. Beyond that, a personality that I click with. Someone that I feel can "keep up." Someone that I feel that special "spark" with. So, I definitely don't "feel" then rationalize the feeling. But, one thing I will say is if someone seems to have a lot of those characteristics, I know I have a bad habit of falling fast for someone. I wear my heart on my sleeve, and it's difficult for me to not do so when I find someone I'm really interested in. Of your list of things I could be drawn to, the only one that resonates with me on the list is someone who is touchy-feely, simply because like I said, my top love language is touch. In regards to my expectations in the start, I am very reasonable with them. I don't expect much of anything on a first date. Maybe a kiss at the end if I'm really feeling it, but that's it. If someone is too physical right from the start, that is actually a potential red flag for me (possibly love-bombing). I also figure if they jump right into all of that with me, it's what they do with all men they meet, and that's not something I want either. I want someone who values sex as more than just physical pleasure. And you are absolutely right - past traumas and such do not excuse poor behavior. You have a great point there. No matter what we go through, ultimately, we are the ones who choose how we handle it. Somewhere along the lines, she took a path that made her very aggressive, verbally abusive, critical, and with no empathy, at least when she's angry. With all I have been through, I NEVER chose that path. So, you make a REALLY good point on that one - her past is no excuse for how she treats me.
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 26, 2021 Author Posted August 26, 2021 3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: You're in a tough spot, but that's why you moved in with her in the first place so she did not put you in that tough spot. Go to social services for help with food, housing, career training, employment and medical and mental health care. She's not the welfare dept. and complaining about how she's driving you nuts won't help you as much as getting federal and state assistance you are entitled to. Thanks for the information. As far as social services, I will definitely look into that. I desperately need help with the housing situation. Not just because of the job issue, but also because six years ago, I was arrested (thanks to the borderline personality disorder ex I have the boys with). While adjudication was withheld and she admitted it was false allegations shortly after, it still shows up for apartment complexes, so they all turn me away. It is VERY difficult to find somewhere because of it, and most places look either 7 or 8yrs back, so I still have a year or two of dealing with that. Hoping by next year, I can get a home, as the last big debt falls off my credit. But, that isn't until June of next year, so I have at least 9mos to deal with in the meantime. Then, of course house shopping, saving up as necessary, etc. As far as I was aware, they only help with housing if you have children. While I do have a daughter and twin boys, I am not the primary custodian of them and as such, wouldn't be able to claim it as their living residence. But, certainly couldn't hurt to try and see what I can make happen. The only assistance I am getting so far is unemployment, which only gives me $275 per week, and food assistance, which I think is like $140 a month. I can't survive on either, but better than nothing for now. I might have to cash out a 401k to figure this out sooner, but I hate to do so if I can avoid it. Even then, the 401k only has $2k I'd get back, so not sure how much that would help me with moving out. I'm paid up until the end of this month with her and then some anyway, as I gave her my $ for the month's bills, plus an extra $75 just to be generous (aka I'm an idiot). I never had to tap into federal and state resources before, so I have no idea how to do so. Hopefully, social services can point me in the right direction. Thanks again, and I will be looking into that tomorrow.
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 26, 2021 Author Posted August 26, 2021 1 hour ago, poppyfields said: Like some of us have been suggesting, find a new therapist. The above is just not acceptable; therapists and psychologist are trained to at least try to help you determine and resolve the issue, NOT shrug it off claiming "bad luck" or at your age, someone without baggage is hard to find, that is NOT even the point! Again, I am just appalled and no disrespect but I am finding it difficult to believe now that you have even seen a therapist, the above is so whacked. I mean I DO believe you, it's just hard to believe, that's all. I mean this is basic standard stuff psychologists deal with every day. It's what they went through years of schooling and training for! $100-$150 per hour to be told it's bad luck? Good lord. Anyway, nuff said from me Love2Love78, all the best. Thanks, and yea, I do sometimes get frustrated with what I feel is a lack of insight from my psychologist. But, I had to start working with a psychologist years back to work on a custody matter with my children, and affordable options are tough in this area. Of the three I tried so far, she has been the most useful. The first one just pretty much sat back and asked questions, but never gave advice or feedback. Did that for three months, asked her several times about feedback on things and got vague answers back from her, so I got tired of that. Second one was pretty decent, but he was brand new to the field. Literally just got out of grad school. So, he lacked experience, and you could tell he was still getting his routine together for clients. He was decent, but then I moved, so ended up with my latest one. This latest one has given me useful advice on problems I had in past relationships. Mainly things pertaining to not having healthy boundaries for myself, knowing when to walk away, not ignoring red flags, etc. I might ask around in the organization I use my current one to see who else is available there. Like many of you, I do feel there is something else going on here that is causing me to end up meeting these toxic/dysfunctional people, but I can't pinpoint what.
poppyfields Posted August 26, 2021 Posted August 26, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said: I might ask around in the organization I use my current one to see who else is available there. Like many of you, I do feel there is something else going on here that is causing me to end up meeting these toxic/dysfunctional people, but I can't pinpoint what. @Love2Love78 I just did a quick Google search, it literally took 15 seconds, and found the below article, hope it helps. No doubt, there are lots more both on line and discussed in some great books by reputable authors. There IS a light at the end of this dark tunnel, and you just took the first step, by admitting you have a problem. That is why I am so shocked that the psychologists you saw had nothing to offer but "bad luck," or the women without baggage are already taken. I mean it really does boggle the mind. ----------------------- Why Some People Attract Dysfunctional Relationships By Sherry Gaba LCSW May 31, 2021 Most of us tend to pick partners who reflect the vision we have of ourselves and our world. When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Compatibility and a sense of ease in a relationship come from having similar preferences, ideas, and values about things like money, religion, monogamy, parenting, and even what makes for good sex. The Legacy Project at Cornell University even did a study on this. They interviewed hundreds of people who had been married 40 or 50 years, and even longer. Most agreed that shared values are at the core of a healthy, long-lasting marriage. But we don’t pick the people we’re with based on values alone. We also choose people who have similar ideas about what relationships look like and how they should play out. This sounds good but it can also backfire. If your caregivers never really modeled what healthy relationships look like, that could mean you end up being attracted to partners who remind you of your dysfunctional family relationships—relationships where you never got what you needed. In other words, if you have a world view that never really worked for you, you’re more likely to be in a relationship with someone who ultimately can’t give you what you need. These kinds of choices fulfill that need to stick with what we’re familiar with. So we pick partners who remind us of the dysfunctional parental-child bonds we know so well. There’s a subconscious need to repeat that dysfunction, only this time with a different outcome—a kind of do-over. In other words, we’ll marry someone who is just like mom and dad (demanding, unnurturing, unresponsive to us), but this time they will give us just what we need. We’ll get to live our childhood over, only this time with a happy ending. But that’s a fantasy. And people who seek out these types of relationships often end up trying to change their partner and control the relationship. The problem is, that never works. If your parents disappointed you, and you pair up with someone who is just like your parents, that person will also disappoint you. Because we tend to pick partners who reflect our world view, people who are willing to give endlessly, often with little in return, tend to attract people who are happy to take endlessly and give back very little. When we’re disappointed, though, rather than move on, we start making excuses for our partner. And when we deny what is real in a partner—the bad as well as the good—we lose the ability to assess who we are picking and become more vulnerable to being exploited and even abused. At the very least, we end up preventing out partner from growing and making the changes they really need to make. After all, if you keep making it easy for your partner to exploit you, they’ve got no reason to change. The truth is that you’re powerless to change anyone but yourself, and you’re kidding yourself if you think you can. Only your partner can change themselves, and only if they really want to change. We might long for a partner to parent the child deep within us—the one who is still angry and unfulfilled—the way we were never parented. But healthy relationships between adults are not about parenting. They are partnerships between equals. As long as we yearn for parents rather than true partners, we will never be able pick partners who can truly (and realistically) give us what we need as adults. What this all means is that whenever you focus on fixing someone else, an alarm should go off. It’s a warning that there is something inside of you that needs to be addressed. Focusing on fixing another person is just a way to avoid focusing on yourself and on fixing your own issues. Sherry Gaba, LCSW is a Certified Transformation and Recovery Coach and the leading Psychotherapist on VH1’s Celebrity Rehab and Sex Addiction. She helps singles navigate the dating process to find the love of their lives. Edited August 26, 2021 by poppyfields 1
Author Love2Love78 Posted November 12, 2021 Author Posted November 12, 2021 Figured I'd give an update, in case anyone else goes through similar issues like this. I can at least tell you how mine turned out. Let me start though that with this girlfriend and myself, we had a connection that neither of us even came close to having in the past. If it wasn't for that, I'd have walked away and never looked back. So, if you have a similar break up type of situation, unless your connection with them was amazing, this might not be applicable to your situation. We did indeed break up again, and I stopped trying. I moved out. I thought it was over. I planned to never contact her again, as since she gave up, I gave up. We were both miserable without each other. She tried talking to someone new and realized she had no interest. Couldn't even go out on a date with him. I tried to myself in order to move on. It just made it worse. Four different women, even (regretfully) slept with one, and I felt nothing. I tried to force myself to move on and see there are other options out there. I came to the harsh realization that in over 40yrs, I never found anyone else I felt even half of the love I felt for her, and that more likely than not, I'd never find it again. But, I was determined to not reach back out to her for my own well-being. About four weeks after I left, she reached out to me via text. Her excuse was a couple things I had left there. But, it was a pair of $1 flip flops she knew I got from Dollar Tree, and two pairs of shorts. I asked her if she was going to tell me the real reason she text me. She kept claiming that was the reason. So, I gave her my address and told her to just mail it. She continued talking to me. She told me she realizes how bad she messed up, how much she needed to work on, and that she finally started working with a counselor. So, she was finally making the effort. Between that and how we felt when talking to each other, we couldn't give up. We talked all that week, and things were going really well. Text, calls, and video chat. The next weekend, we met up. Of course sex happened, which is mind-blowing on both ends. Three times no less, lol. But more importantly, we had multiple very, very long talks about what went wrong, what needs to be addressed, how to handle it in the future, etc. Three weeks later, and it is going great. No arguments, no conflict. I think the living apart thing helped us a lot. She felt less pressure from the relationship, and it's giving her the time to get over her fears and work on her anger issues. And for me, it gives me that safety net that if it doesn't work out this time, I have my own place to come home to. I gave her criteria for me to ever live with her again. Number one, it's going to be at least one year. Two, in addition to her personal counseling, we need to do couple's counseling. A minimum of 24 sessions of personal counseling, 24 sessions of couple's counseling. Third, I need both her counselor and our couple's counselor to BOTH tell me with confidence that they feel we resolved the issues, and that if we were to live together again, they are highly confident it won't happen again this time. So, I'm being cautious, but I can't give up. I'd rather risk making this work than to know I'm most likely never going to have a connection like that again. One of our issues was also our attachment styles. Hers is dismissive avoidant, mine is about half secure, half anxiety. The secure part because for the most part, I am confident and aware of what I have to offer in relationships that sets me above the norm. I'm also fairly laid back on most matters. The anxious part because I over-think a lot of things, and I can get anxious when I don't know the answers to questions or don't fully understand the answers (or the reasons for them). So, I'm working on making my attachment style more secure (both on my own and with suggestions from my counselor), and she is working on being less dismissive avoidant and trying to meet me halfway on some matters. But anyway, us being apart for a bit was what we needed. We also needed this space. We are still both healing, but we are working on our relationship as well. I can't say I would recommend this to most people. Again, if it weren't for the connection her and I have, I would NEVER have given her another chance. But, I believe in her, I believe in us, and I feel the current circumstances make it well worth the risk. I mean I was already heartbroken without her, so if it doesn't work, I'll just be in the same place emotionally that I was before this. And if it does work, I have a dream come true as far as family. Only time will tell which one for sure, but I am extremely confident this is going to work. 1
Wiseman2 Posted November 12, 2021 Posted November 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said: I need both her counselor and our couple's counselor to BOTH tell me with confidence that they feel we resolved the issues Her therapist is legally and ethically bound to confidentiality, so can not discuss private sessions. You'll have to assess for yourself is it's working. 2
ExpatInItaly Posted November 12, 2021 Posted November 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: Her therapist is legally and ethically bound to confidentiality, so can not discuss private sessions. You'll have to assess for yourself is it's working. This. And with respect, OP, it sounds like neither of you tried to heal while you were apart, but instead tried to rebound with others. It's not the same thing at all. I think you are setting yourself up to get hurt all over again, unfortunately. 4
Wiseman2 Posted November 12, 2021 Posted November 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Love2Love78 said: I gave her criteria for me to ever live with her again. Number one, it's going to be at least one year. Two, in addition to her personal counseling, we need to do couple's counseling. A minimum of 24 sessions of personal counseling, 24 sessions of couple's counseling. Third, I need both her counselor and our couple's counselor to BOTH tell me with confidence that they feel we resolved the issues, and that if we were to live together again, they are highly confident it won't happen again this time. In other words a total overhaul. Unfortunately people to not change all that much, especially his much. Keep things as they are. Live apart. Hookup. Stop fixing each other and be yourselves instead of some completely retooled version. This sounds like "I'll buy the house if you raze it and rebuild me something completely different". 1
chillii Posted November 13, 2021 Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) l wish you both the very best with everything op. To feel like this about ea other is so rare , impossible for so many to find, ever , that it's worth another shot so seems as it's what you both want, then why not. ! At the least you will know one way or another later on instead of wondering , maybe the rest of your life. On the other hand though , never know, you guys might work it out. Edited November 13, 2021 by chillii 1
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