Overcoming fear of another breakup after multiple breakups?

[poppyfields]

On 7/21/2021 at 10:19 AM, Love2Love78 said:

I love her so very, VERY much, and while I know I am VERY picky, she is everything I ever wanted in someone and more. 

Trying to do the couple’s counseling asap, and I know another part of me feeling more confident in us working out is time (as time is what made her eventually realize her fears were irrational and were not coming from her and I, but from her past traumas).  But, other than the counseling and time, anyone have any other suggestions on how I can put my mind at ease at this point about the concerns of another breakup happening?  I just don’t have much security at this point, but not sure how to move past it any faster than I am.

I bolded the relevant points.  I am not even a shrink but even I know (or at least suspect) the reason why "she is everything you ever wanted in someone and more" is precisely because she's so damaged from past trauma, keeps running away which maintains the intensity and high drama and keeps you off balance and insecure.  It's all related, man.

For some reason, you are drawn to this type of dysfunction, it intrigues you, emotionally stimulates you, provides you some sort of value, whereas a woman who was not so emotionally damaged and more stable, less drama, would leave you feeling meh, bored, unstimulated.

I am surprised your therapist has not mentioned this to you because to me it's so very obvious.

How do you get past it?  You don't.  Because the second you feel more balanced and secure is the second you will become bored, unstimulated, and lose interest.

That's how it typically works with such toxic relationships, your dysfunction feeds off each other.

Just accept it for what it is, the highs, the lows, the insane break ups, the dramatic reconciliations, because believe it or not, it is exactly what you want and maybe even need, as dysfunctional as it is.

You might deny this is what's happening because much of this is happening on a subconscious level, you are unaware of the intricacies involved.  But talk to your therapist about it, if she has a shred of insight, she may be able to help you sort it out.

Edited August 25, 2021 by poppyfields

[Lotsgoingon]

So basically you are NOT getting along swimmingly. It's just that she hasn't had any horrible outbursts. But you still report all kinds of ways you don't feel she's treating you right.

Way past time to break up. Way way past time. 

[Love2Love78]

18 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I bolded the relevant points.  I am not even a shrink but even I know (or at least suspect) the reason why "she is everything you ever wanted in someone and more" is precisely because she's so damaged from past trauma, keeps running away which maintains the intensity and high drama and keeps you off balance and insecure.  It's all related, man.

For some reason, you are drawn to this type of dysfunction, it intrigues you, emotionally stimulates you, provides you some sort of value, whereas a woman who was not so emotionally damaged and more stable, less drama, would leave you feeling meh, bored, unstimulated.

I am surprised your therapist has not mentioned this to you because to me it's so very obvious.

How do you get past it?  You don't.  Because the second you feel more balanced and secure is the second you will become bored, unstimulated, and lose interest.

That's how it typically works with such toxic relationships, your dysfunction feeds off each other.

Just accept it for what it is, the highs, the lows, the insane break ups, the dramatic reconciliations, because believe it or not, it is exactly what you want and maybe even need, as dysfunctional as it is.

You might deny this is what's happening because much of this is happening on a subconscious level, you are unaware of the intricacies involved.  But talk to your therapist about it, if she has a shred of insight, she may be able to help you sort it out.

Thanks for your feedback.  I completely understand why you think this is what I want, if not consciously, subconsciously.  One thing I will say regarding that is I do need stimulation in a relationship.  If someone is very simple, low IQ, or overall just not much to work with, I do get bored and lose interest.  You are right in that regard.  However, I do not feel the negative stimulation is something I am pursuing.

The only reason I might crave that subconsciously is because it was what I was raised in.  My parents were dysfunctional.  However, prior to my divorce, I had plenty of non-drama relationships that were great.  The two longest ones ended because one of them was too simple for me (so I got bored over the years), and the other one just grew apart from me (we wanted different things in life and our futures).  But, none of those relationships prior to my divorce were toxic.

What intrigues me and stimulates me are people with commonalities and depth.  I do like people who are unique and think outside the box.  I like those who don't conform, but find their own path.  I certainly do not want emotionally damaged, as if I consciously notice they are from the start, I run.  It's one thing for them to have been through a rough past, learned from it, and so we can relate to one another better.  It is entirely different if they STILL have unresolved issues and bring it into our relationship.  That is not acceptable to me.  I just didn't know she had done that until she already roped me in (had me living with her, built relationships with the kids, etc.). 

My therapist knows I'm picky, but I didn't think she was the one because of her drama.  It's because according to what she told me from the start, she wanted the same things as me.  Honesty was paramount, she is extremely family-oriented, wanted to be an active part of my children's lives (and me in her childrens), is highly intelligent, strong work ethic, open-minded, compassionate, loving, similar spiritual views, similar moral values, etc.  There is a LONG list of criteria I have - some in a "must have" list, some in a "bonus" list.  She hit all of them, literally every single one.  No one ever did that before.  So, it's not the issues that drew me in, at least not initially.  It was the common values, her personality, her values, etc. 

Back to my therapist, she has worked with me for over 2yrs now.  She has seen me drop plenty of women at the drop of a hat as soon as I found out about a deal-breaker.  Whether it be lies, cheating, abusive behaviors, etc.  When I see clearly there is an issue and it isn't going to change or is otherwise unacceptable to me, I walk.  Me fighting for a relationship like this is NOT normal for me.  The only reason I kept fighting for it though was because of how much I *thought* she was of what I wanted in someone.  But again, I feel a large part of it was just love-bombing, as over time, I have seen that some of those things don't have the same value to her and they do me.  And a relationship to her seems to be more about sex, affection, and someone to share your spare time with when you have nothing better to do.  She claims she wants more, but as soon as her sex drive is lacking, I get pushed away.  And there are tons of times where she will spend hours playing app games while we are in bed together where she pays no attention to me.  There are many other examples, but I have seen a pattern where she gives me attention only when she wants it, but has no consideration for my wants and needs, at least not most the time.  Gives me just enough to keep me hanging on, but not what I truly want.

I will definitely reiterate those things to my psychologist, and again appreciate your feedback.  I personally feel this is more than "bad luck" and me having a bad "picker" when it comes to dating.  But, my psych just keeps telling me I don't and I just have to be more wary of red flags in the beginning, walk away when I see those red flags, and have more respect for my personal boundaries, and she thinks I'll be fine.  I don't know if that's it, or if there is more.

What I have always wanted since I was a kid was to find "the one," get married, have children, and raise our children together.  Live out our lives sharing those experiences, being by each other's side through thick and thin, etc.  My marriage and first child failed because we grew apart way too much near the end.  My children from the 2nd woman was the one I said I never expected (she came off birth control without telling me).  That I knew was never going to last.  She was too damaged. 

So now, I have three children, which is already more than I originally hoped to (2 would've been great for me).  Still don't have someone to live out life with.  By the time I find it, I don't even know if there will be anymore parenting, or if my kids will be out of school and on their own by that point.  So much of my "dream" has fallen apart, and so when I see hope of someone being what I would still like to have, it's hard to let it go. 

In the last six years and dating probably half the time (and focusing me or the kids the other half), I met only three people that I saw any hope of a potential future with.  One of them turned out to be using me for a side affair.  Another one had too much emotional damage from her ex to have a relationship with me (needed more time to heal).  The third was this latest debacle.  Every time, something goes wrong, or they end up not being who I thought they were.  Lots of dishonesty, cheating, or other issues I just can't accept.

I'm just so fed up with looking, and hoped this could be fixed.  I figured if we kept fighting for us, did the counseling, listened to what she said, and both made an effort, we could overcome this issue.  And when we are good, we are amazing.  Like nothing I've had before.  That is what I want - the good times with her, without the bad times (arguments).  But, it just doesn't seem possible anytime in the near future, if at all.  I just hate the notion of dating again.  It's so emotionally draining to me.  But, I can definitely say it is at least not emotionally damaging like this has been.  This woman has damaged me emotionally more than anyone since I dated a narcissist with borderline personality disorder six years ago.  I accept now that it can't be fixed, but it still hurts feeling like there was just that one big obstacle to overcome, yet we just couldn't do it.

[Love2Love78]

10 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

So basically you are NOT getting along swimmingly. It's just that she hasn't had any horrible outbursts. But you still report all kinds of ways you don't feel she's treating you right.

Way past time to break up. Way way past time. 

We had been when I posted the post indicating we were.  It wasn't until the past couple weeks where things started falling apart again.  Prior to that, things had been amazing and no conflict at all.  Up until she took that morning after pill.  But, it's the same cycle over and over.  Just beating a dead horse that I'm over beating.

[poppyfields]

23 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

It is entirely different if they STILL have unresolved issues and bring it into our relationship.  That is not acceptable to me.

Thank you for clarifying and fair enough.  However, there is one thing that is still baffling given the above quote.

Why do you keep returning, or rather, allowing HER to keep returning to you after she breaks it off ad nauseum?   I mean, since you just said you find such unresolved issues, dysfunction and behavior unacceptable?

Typically someone, a more emotionally healthy person, would NOT be allowing this.  This behavior would repel them, turn them off.

I am not judging you for it, just something to consider within yourself, you don't even need to respond here.

Maybe speak with your therapist about it, because I can almost guarantee that if/when she wants you back again, you will welcome her (once again) with open arms.

It's a toxic vicious cycle.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by poppyfields

[Love2Love78]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Thank you for clarifying and fair enough.  However, there is one thing that is still baffling given the above quote.

Why do you keep returning, or rather, allowing HER to keep returning to you after she breaks it off ad nauseum?   I mean, since you just said you find such unresolved issues, dysfunction and behavior unacceptable?

Typically someone, a more emotionally healthy person, would NOT be allowing this.  This behavior would repel them, turn them off.

I am not judging you for it, just something to consider within yourself, you don't even need to respond here.

Maybe speak with your therapist about it, because I can almost guarantee that if/when she wants you back again, you will welcome her (once again) with open arms.

It's a toxic vicious cycle.

 

 

Great question, and I agree, this is a VERY toxic cycle.  Normally, when I realize a relationship is toxic or someone has serious behavioral issues, I walk immediately.  This is not normal of me.  Yes, I fall hard for people fast, but I have my limits of when I will walk away and stick to them when I feel I need to for my own well being.

The reason I kept letting her return to me is because I thought we could fix this.  For example, take two alcoholics.  One of those alcoholics says they have no problem, blames others for their drinking, or otherwise fails to see an issue.  Obviously, they can't be helped, because they aren't even aware of the problem, let alone a willingness to fix it.  Now, let's say alcoholic number two is aware they have a drinking problem, tells you they are aware, and expresses appreciation to you for supporting them getting through it.  I think you know where I am going with this now, yes?

With that said, if after her first anger outburst, she tried to blame me or otherwise failed to accept responsibility, I'd have walked away immediately.  What kept me around is her acknowledging she had issues she needed to work on, and that she planned to work on them.  However, as time went on, I realized she is a VERY bad procrastinator.  As such, things got held off for week after week, until I took charge of it.  I got the book for us to read, which she was very receptive to at first.  But, as we read it and she realized how many things she does that you can't do in a healthy relationship, I think she got very discouraged.  She didn't realize how messed up she was until that book brought it to her attention.  So, she eventually started avoiding reading time with me.

After that, we realized the book wasn't enough and we needed more.  So, the option then was couple's counseling.  Considering statistically, I read that counseling has a very high success rate for couples, I was very optimistic, as was she.  But, we just barely got into the sessions long enough to tell the counselor our current circumstances (two sessions), and then the issues with the insurance.  Since then, she had been procrastinating again.

The problem is she seems to genuinely WANT to change, but she can't.  She said after the first few arguments she would get it under control and never do it again.  But, it's beyond her being able to control it through sheer willpower.  She needs to find the root of the anger, direct the anger in the proper direction, or resolve the anger altogether.  One way or another, she has issues she needs a professional to help her look into and resolve.

So, that's why I kept trying.  With how receptive and willing she was to try counseling or other resources to fix us, I thought there was hope.  I figured since counseling statistically helps the majority of couples, that if we pick one with really good reviews and actually make a serious effort on both ends, we could fix this.

I wouldn't stay in a toxic relationship if there was no reason to believe it would change.  But, I kept believing this one would change, and she did make at least some effort here and there to try to do so.  It's just too much for her to do on her own, and we haven't gotten to the point yet where a professional can start addressing it for her.

It might take me moving out and her doing counseling on her own.  Maybe that will be the wake up call that it needs to change or she loses me permanently.  I think to her, an off an on relationship is so regular that she doesn't realize the repercussions and how much damage it is doing.  It's just her go-to when angry.  "I'm angry, so we break up so I can get space and time to cool off."  Then, when her anger is gone, it's "let's get back together, I'm not angry anymore and miss you."  Since she has the control, it's not stressful to her at all.  She gets the space she wants, and now feels she can just discard me whenever she wants space, then have me right back when she chooses to.  That is why I have to stop this pattern.

I'm NOT taking her back this time.  The ONLY thing that would even keep me talking to her once I move out is her doing counseling on a weekly basis ON HER OWN.  And I would want some kind of assurance she is actually working on her issues with the psychologist, not just going through the motions.  Maybe after 3-6mos of her doing that, I would consider talking to her and/or doing couple's counseling.  But, she is doing so much damage with this off and on that I don't think I'd even want that.  If she can't try while I am here, I don't see a reason why I should try after I leave.  She had her chance, and as far as I'm concerned, she squandered it by not making the effort to work on her issues.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

You are never going to get a stable relationship with her, OP. 

Never. 

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

 I can't sit around and continue to be abused while she does.  

The best thing to do is undo the biggest mistake in the first place which was moving into her place much too soon for all the wrong reasons.

That means keep the focus on your finances and finding your own place rather than all the issues you claim she has.

Move out. It's that simple.

[d0nnivain]

13 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

Just hurts so much because of the potential I saw for us, if only she could handle her anger.  

Stop looking at people's "potential."  You have to see adults for who they are.  They are unlikely to change.  Staying because things could be great if this one thing were different doesn't work.  

[poppyfields]

@love2lovethis is not about her anymore.  Her changing, whatever.  Stop focusing on HER and her "potential." 

This is about YOU. 

I'm back to what I originally posted. This relationship, no matter how toxic, how dysfunctional, is clearly providing some sort of value, it's serving a purpose for you, perhaps even providing pleasure on some level (even the bad times, pain can do this, it proves you're alive) otherwise you wouldn't be there.  Period.

You can tell yourself all sorts of stories justifying your reasons, but that's all they are - stories. 

My advice is forget attempting to figure HER out, hoping she will change, it will be better next time, she can be "fixed" and begin focusing on yourself, loving YOURSELF.

Because that is really what this is about, YOU.

When we find ourselves drawn to dysfunction, toxic and crazy, that is always what it's about - you.

Look within.  Internally. That is where the answer is, not making her this perfect vision of what you think you want.  It's not possible anyway.  

I learned all this myself, from my own therapist, from reading reputable books, and from others/my own experience.

And learning to love myself first. 

When you love yourself first, toxic and crazy hold no value anymore, have no purpose.  It's a great big YAWN.

I hope someday you will get to that place cause it truly is a beautiful place to be. 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by poppyfields

[Love2Love78]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

@love2lovethis is not about her anymore.  Her changing, whatever.  Stop focusing on HER and her "potential." 

This is about YOU. 

I'm back to what I originally posted. This relationship, no matter how toxic, how dysfunctional, is clearly providing some sort of value, it's serving a purpose for you, perhaps even providing pleasure on some level (even the bad times, pain can do this, it proves you're alive) otherwise you wouldn't be there.  Period.

You can tell yourself all sorts of stories justifying your reasons, but that's all they are - stories. 

My advice is forget attempting to figure HER out, hoping she will change, it will be better next time, she can be "fixed" and begin focusing on yourself, loving YOURSELF.

Because that is really what this is about, YOU.

When we find ourselves drawn to dysfunction, toxic and crazy, that is always what it's about - you.

Look within.  Internally. That is where the answer is, not making her this perfect vision of what you think you want.  It's not possible anyway.  

I learned all this myself, from my own therapist, from reading reputable books, and from others/my own experience.

And learning to love myself first. 

When you love yourself first, toxic and crazy hold no value anymore, have no purpose.  It's a great big YAWN.

I hope someday you will get to that place cause it truly is a beautiful place to be. 

 

Thanks again for all your feedback. 

As far as the value here, the biggest value that I saw for myself (after she showed her true colors) was as I already stated, the potential of what it could be if the problems were fixed.  I thought that was the whole point of couple's counseling.  You have chemistry, but you have an issue you're having difficulty overcoming together, so you seek professional help to overcome it.  I'm just one of those types where if something is broken, I don't just throw it away.  I try to fix it first.  If I love someone, truly love them, I don't give up easily.

At the start, things were absolutely amazing.  The anger issues gradually came out more and more later on.  So, I was basing the "potential" on my experience with her in the beginning, our huge list of common values, etc. 

It wasn't that I hoped she would change into someone that was necessarily different.  I know that's completely unreasonable.  It was me knowing what we had prior to her anger issues consuming the relationship.  It was me thinking I finally found who I have looked for since I was 14, and that the only obstacle was for her to overcome her anger issues and we could get back to that good place again.  It was also that it seems like the anger is a 2nd personality she uses as a defense mechanism when she feels emotionally threatened.  It's hard to explain, but I dealt with someone with borderline personality disorder in the past who had a similar issue (mother of my sons).  After she got the proper medication and therapy, she has leveled out significantly.  No nasty outbursts at all, and we are finally able to be civil with one another without her overstepping boundaries every couple months.

Up until recently, that was the value as I saw with my current paramour - getting back the good parts of what we had, and fixing the bad parts through counseling and her resolving those past traumas and other issues.

Currently, there is virtually no value.  I don't see her changing, and I had to step back from her and detach because of the emotional damage it was causing me (and severe insomnia debilitating me).  I can't remember if I covered it here yet or not, but the stress of her off and on with me was so bad that it started to cause me anxiety and insomnia.  I haven't dealt with anything like that in about 20yrs, when I had a TON of stress in my life when I was younger.  But, it's sad when you are so off and on with someone, in the first few seconds when you first wake up (to pee, or in the morning), you have to actually think about whether or not your significant other broke up with you again or not. So, I was stressed all the time, dreading when the next breakup was going to happen, dreading the next thing she was going to pick a fight about, because you never knew when it was going to happen, but when it did, there is no stopping it.  By the time you see she is angry, she has already lost control of her reasoning.

The other values were saving the hassle of moving again, not having to explain to my children why she is gone, missing her kids, eventually dating again (which I absolutely dread), and that IF her anger issues could be fixed, we would be amazing like we were at the start again.  But, I was definitely not in it for the off and on, not even on a subconscious level.  I thought about it long and hard yesterday, and I don't see that being the case.  I get why for some people it would be, but for me, the off and on was just tearing me apart from the inside out.  I just kept clinging onto the hope that through counseling (and whatever other resources that counselor may provide), we could get past it and back to that good place again.

---------------

As far as working on loving myself, I do.  I beat myself up a lot over the last few years because of the failed marriage, my children being in a broken home, etc.  But, I learned to forgive myself, forgive those involved, and moved past it.  I spent the majority of the last six years working on myself, which is why most the time, I was single.  I thought I got to a place where I was ready for love again.  But, I guess I do still have some work to do on myself to be fully ready.

I just don't know what that work is.  My counselor doesn't either.  I'm one of the top producers at work.  Planning to pursue another career path and excited about that.  I know I'm a great father, and confident in what I have to offer as a spouse.  The one and only thing I don't like that I wanted was to get a home again.  I was waiting for something to fall off my credit in 2022 so that I could (it was too much to pay off, and the company refused to negotiate a "pay to delete").  But, when I met someone who already had a home, then that was a moot matter, as even if I did get a home (which I still planned to), it was just going to be an investment home.

Other than that, I have my goals, know my strengths, continue to work on my weaknesses (impatience, respecting my personal boundaries, and a few other minor things), but don't personally feel I am not ready for a relationship, or that I deserve what I keep running into.  So, it has to be something subconscious.  I'll just have to keep digging with my psych until we figure it out.  I really appreciate the insight here though and all you gave me to think about.

 

[Lotsgoingon]

If you're counselor is clueless, get to a different and better and smarter counselor. This here reflects your problem: you're way too passive and slow to respond to situations that aren't working. There are a million therapists out there. Go visit multiple until you find one who can help you do the work you need to heal and not get caught up in dysfunctional relationships.

To step back: you seem to think the problems with this relationship lie in details and with her. I think the problem is with you. There are lots of dysfunctional, toxic people who will cross our paths. Some will be attractive and sexy and even charming for moments. But we don't have to date them. And we avoid getting romantically involved with them.

This is the power that you apparently cannot see that you have. 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Love2Love78 said:

I'm just one of those types where if something is broken, I don't just throw it away.  I try to fix it first.  If I love someone, truly love them, I don't give up easily.

To be fair, I think most people who truly love their partners are the same. Most don't "just throw it away" without trying to work on things first, if they're really invested. You're not unique there. 

Your problem is that you are using this as a reason to enable yourself to hang on to something that is clearly very dysfunctional and not good for your well-being.

[poppyfields]

3 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

If you're counselor is clueless, get to a different and better and smarter counselor. This here reflects your problem: you're way too passive and slow to respond to situations that aren't working. There are a million therapists out there. Go visit multiple until you find one who can help you do the work you need to heal and not get caught up in dysfunctional relationships.

To step back: you seem to think the problems with this relationship lie in details and with her. I think the problem is with you. There are lots of dysfunctional, toxic people who will cross our paths. Some will be attractive and sexy and even charming for moments. But we don't have to date them. And we avoid getting romantically involved with them.

This is the power that you apparently cannot see that you have. 

That is exactly what I have been saying.  Maybe he will listen to you Lots, hope so.   

And agree about looking for a better and smarter therapist, his current one sounds pretty useless, unfortunately.

 

 

[Lotsgoingon]

OP seems pretty committed to the path that has brought him all kinds of misery. 

[Love2Love78]

3 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

If you're counselor is clueless, get to a different and better and smarter counselor. This here reflects your problem: you're way too passive and slow to respond to situations that aren't working. There are a million therapists out there. Go visit multiple until you find one who can help you do the work you need to heal and not get caught up in dysfunctional relationships.

To step back: you seem to think the problems with this relationship lie in details and with her. I think the problem is with you. There are lots of dysfunctional, toxic people who will cross our paths. Some will be attractive and sexy and even charming for moments. But we don't have to date them. And we avoid getting romantically involved with them.

This is the power that you apparently cannot see that you have. 

But that's the thing... Like I stated previously, when I do learn that someone is toxic, I do walk away.  This current situation is the one and only exception since 8yrs ago.  And the only reason I tried is because I felt like it was possible to fix it and have something better with her than I would with anyone else I have ever met.  If it weren't for the chemistry that exceeded all past paramours, I would have walked a LONG time ago.  There are just a lot of factors here that are hard to detail in messages like this.  I'm long-winded enough as it is, lol.

When I first met her, she came off as a strong, independent mom raising her 2 kids on her own (and took in a "foster" that was her daughter's best friend as well), with a solid career, home, great income, and overall came off as very stable.  In most aspects of her life, she is.  It's just when it comes to relationships, for some reason, there is something dysfunctional in her head that causes all these issues to come up.  But, they weren't there immediately.  From the outside, and for the first couple months, it all seemed great.

My problem this time around was I let her move things way too fast.  I know I messed up in that regard, and if I didn't let her move me in so fast (she literally paid for the moving truck and pushed to get me in here before I was ready), I would have run much sooner than this.  But like I said, when you have kids involved, have to move again, and financial matters are a concern, it's not as simple as "run away."  Sometimes, it seems to make more sense to at least try first.  But, I do get now that this is a lost cause, and I am NOT trying anymore.

The thing is, at least now I can rest easy knowing this could not have been fixed.  If I walked away without at least trying counseling and other resources, I would have wondered for a long time if I made the right decision, or if it could have been fixed.  So, while I did delay longer than most would have, I do have my reasons.

In the future, one of the biggest things I need to do is not let anyone move things this fast under ANY circumstances, no matter how good things seem to be.  My psych suggested a min of at least 6-9mos before moving in together with someone, and even then only doing so if you know you have the financial means to leave the situation quickly if things go south.  She didn't support my decision here.  I had simply already done it before she had a chance to give me feedback (only talk to her once a month these days, and the decision to move and move itself happened between sessions).

I have talked to three psychologists and two psychiatrists over the years.  Of everyone I have talked to, the one I have currently seems to be the most insightful.  She did tell me I shouldn't have let things move so fast, and that was my first mistake.  The second one was to not leave sooner as it became clear she couldn't keep her anger under control.  The third was after the first breakup, I never should have taken her back.  Now, I have less value in her eyes, am a doormat, and she can just discard me and pick me back up as she pleases.

Trying to move out of here within the next two weeks as finances allow.  In the meantime, we are not speaking.  Not at all whatsoever.  She started the silent treatment over the weekend, and I am fine with it.  Makes it easier to avoid conflict.  So, it's at least peaceful while I figure my way out of this.

------

On another note, I think she is really losing it.  She is very compulsive at times.  Not sexually, but in other ways.  She already has two cats and a bird, along with the 3 kids.  As it is, she can't keep up with cleaning up after all of them (her kids are VERY irresponsible and leave disasters everywhere they go).  She also complains of not having enough hours in the day to get everything done she needs to (mainly because she doesn't make any of the kids do any chores at all, so she takes care of all of them as if they were babies).  The dishes end up piling out of the sink at times, she forgets to buy cat/bird food until she is out, forgets things like toilet paper and such, and overall just can't keep up as it is with all she has to take care of.  With that said, for some odd reason, she decided to get yet another cat.  She claimed it was because "animals make me happy. they cheer me up, and I'm trying to get out of this depression."  She did that about a week ago.  So now, she has a new cat tearing up the brand new furniture she bought (she didn't think that one through), and tearing up the blinds in the living room.  Just more stress as far as I can tell, but she seemed to just act on a compulsion to get another cat without thinking it through.

But, I think she realized a new cat wasn't going to fix the problem, and after a week or so of having it, she seems to notice it didn't make a difference at all with her depression.  So now today, I heard her talking to her son about getting a dog!  She is going to become the crazy cat lady soon I think, never figuring out no amount of pets are going to compensate for what she is trying to avoid in herself.  I don't know, I really think her depression is severe, and I think it's a large portion of why I got pushed away so much.  But, she is not on the right medication, yet refuses to get re-evaluated.  I know it's because she is afraid of what they will tell her about herself.  She is afraid to confront her issues, so she just does all she can to try to distract herself from them.  Pets, also painting, the kids, cleaning, TV/movies, whatever she can to distract her from herself.  So sad that in her 40s, she still can't get control of her own mind.

But anyway, to reiterate, I am 100% done with this woman now.  I am looking to leave as soon as I can, am not talking to her in the meantime, and would not ever take her back unless maybe a year or two down the road after I saw she got serious psychological help.  Even at that, I wouldn't go near her without her paying for multiple couple's counseling sessions first to get feedback from a professional on whether it would be another waste of my time.  As far as I'm concerned though, I am never coming back to this.  It's too much trouble, and she hurt me WAY too much for me to move past it.

[ExpatInItaly]

10 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

On another note, I think she is really losing it.

This isn't important anymore. You keep listing all the whacky and inappropriate things she does and giving overly-detailed accounts, and I think it's because you still need to convince yourself that she's not good for you. But you could write a novel about the things she's done wrong and it still wouldn't really get at the reasons why you enabled it for so long. 

Keep the focus on you now. Keep working with your therapist, who sounds like they're making some headway with you. Keep track instead of your feelings and behaviour, and where you could improve. 

10 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

would not ever take her back unless maybe a year or two down the road after I saw she got serious psychological help.  Even at that, I wouldn't go near her without her paying for multiple couple's counseling sessions first to get feedback from a professional on whether it would be another waste of my time.  As far as I'm concerned though, I am never coming back to this. 

I hope that's true. The sentences immediately preceeding this one suggest you are still trying to keep a door open. 

[Wiseman2]

It's best you find other accommodation asap before she evicts you.

[Love2Love78]

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

This isn't important anymore. You keep listing all the whacky and inappropriate things she does and giving overly-detailed accounts, and I think it's because you still need to convince yourself that she's not good for you. But you could write a novel about the things she's done wrong and it still wouldn't really get at the reasons why you enabled it for so long. 

Keep the focus on you now. Keep working with your therapist, who sounds like they're making some headway with you. Keep track instead of your feelings and behaviour, and where you could improve. 

I hope that's true. The sentences immediately preceeding this one suggest you are still trying to keep a door open. 

I know she isn't good for me.  That's not the problem.  The problem is even though I know she isn't good for me, I still miss her.  I loved her in a way I never loved anyone in my past.  There was a chemistry I never had before.  And it sucks living with her, having a constant reminder of her every day.  I try to do my best to keep myself distracted, but I can't help but run into her at home.  She refuses to sleep in the bedroom and is on the couch until I leave.  So, every time I leave the bedroom, I see her.  It's horrible, as I want to just put her behind me, but I can't, and it's killing me emotionally.

While it would be hard, I know I can't take her back.  I know it would only hurt me more.  Every time I take her back, I get hurt worse and worse.  I can't handle it anymore.  Despite how much I hurt without her, I know in the long run, it would be far less pain than with her.

I wrote down a list of all the reasons to not be with her, and am making sure I stick with it.

---------

And tying into this and Wiseman2's comment regarding finding other accommodations asap, that is the biggest issue currently.  Number one, because of all the stress of this relationship and resulting missed work, I lost my job.  So, currently on unemployment, which of course limits my options severely as far as accommodations.  And before anyone suggests it, no, I do not know anyone local that I could stay with temporarily.  I have no family nearby, only a select few friends from prior jobs (my last one had us working remotely, so no local interaction), and I have reached out to every single person I do know locally to no avail.  So, I currently have little options.

I am hoping that once a friend of mine moves back from CA, which is supposed to be in two weeks, we are going to find a place together.  However, with unemployment, I'm not quite sure what I'll get accepted to.  I'm really stressed, financially struggling, emotionally drained and hurting, and feel completely lost.  Struggling with insomnia and anxiety isn't helping me either.  I hard difficulty sleeping (like right now), which makes me so tired during the day that I can barely focus sometimes.  I even get wary driving, as I struggle to keep myself awake sometimes.  But, sometimes I just can't sleep.  I lay in bed feeling anxious, so I have to get back up and walk around to distract myself.  Sometimes watching TV, sometimes surfing the web, sometimes listening to music, playing games on my phone, etc.  I try to do distractions, but that doesn't help me catch up on my sleep.

I'm speaking with a psychiatrist this afternoon that I spoke with a couple years back.  He is familiar with my situational depression and previous anxiety issues from when I was younger, so I'm hoping he can give me something to at least help while getting through this.  I tried going back on my old anti-depressant (Celexa), but it made my anxiety so much worse, even at low doses, that I couldn't handle it.

I'm just a wreck right now.  If the doc can at least get me something to temporarily help my sleeping and anxiety, I can focus better during the day, get some type of work asap, save up, and get out of here for good.

 

[poppyfields]

18 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

I have talked to three psychologists and two psychiatrists over the years.  Of everyone I have talked to, the one I have currently seems to be the most insightful.  She did tell me I shouldn't have let things move so fast, and that was my first mistake.  The second one was to not leave sooner as it became clear she couldn't keep her anger under control.  The third was after the first breakup, I never should have taken her back.  Now, I have less value in her eyes, am a doormat, and she can just discard me and pick me back up as she pleases.

^^What the hell is going on in the mental health industry these days, geez!

I have never known a psychologist or a psychiatrist? to give relationship /dating advice to patients, that is NOT their role OR their place.  A list of "shoulds" and "should nots"? 

They don't know your girlfriend, they are not treating your girlfriend, your girlfriend is not their patient, that is totally unprofessional and inappropriate.

Their role is to help YOU understand why YOU are drawn to such dysfunctional in the first place! 

And help YOU navigate the process of healing.  

Not give "relationship" advice and provide a list of shoulds and should nots, I am utterly astounded, shocked. 

My advice?   Find a better psychologist/therapist.  Someone who can help you understand your unhealthy attractions and help you navigate the process of healing and becoming more whole so you are no longer attracted to such dysfunction.

Not give relationship advice re one particular relationship, a list of shoulds and should nots.

Essentially putting a band aid on a deep gaping wound versus treating it, HEALING it.

Totally unprofessional, again I am utterly shocked by that. 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by poppyfields

[spiderowl]

Just reading your initial messages, OP, I am struck by how many abusive relationships you have ended up in.  If what you are saying is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) you seem to be drawn to women who lie, get angry, are irresponsible financially, and who cheat.  There is something fundamentally wrong with the kind of characters you are attracted to.

You mentioned that with your recent ex things 'felt right'.  You also mentioned the compatibilities.  We look at compatibility as a rational thing - are they responsible with money like me, do they eat the same kind of diet, do we share similar values - whereas feelings are a different matter.  If feelings dominate for you, then I would guess that you are 'feeling' the attraction, that someone is right for you, then rationalising it (coming up with reasons to justify why you are compatible with each other).  In fact, you are not compatible with any of the women you mentioned.  You are looking for love and stability; they are full of drama, volatile behaviour and possibly trauma.

I think it might help you to examine what it is about feeling that someone is right for you.  That feeling is what is drawing you to these women and is keeping you in relationships that are seriously flawed.  You might like to consider if:

- you expect volatility in a relationship

- you prefer dramatic people because they are not boring

- you are drawn to people you think you can help

- you are drawn to highly emotional people

- you are drawn to people who are touchy-feely or are very physically driven

- you are drawn to women who have an air of mystery or seem to be hiding something.

I don't think you should try to keep this relationship going when it has been so on and off.  It is on and off for a reason - lack of compatibility/volatility.  It is toxic to you.

I think counselling might help you to find out why you are ending up in toxic relationships.  Your need for a good, loving, affectionate relationship is natural and there is nothing wrong with you seeking that.  What you need to find out is why you are also attracting toxicity as well.  

I mention 'touchy-feely' above because you mention that cuddles, hugs, etc. are all really important to you.  There is nothing wrong with that and it is something most people will want too.  The reason I mention it is that it could be a weak point for you.  Is it possible that you are drawn to these women because they meet your needs on that level and then you overlook the other flaws?  Physical contact is a deep need and many have stayed in problematic relationships 'because the sex was good'.  It could be your Achilles Heel though.  What you need, ideally, is a woman who is happy being physical but has lots of other good qualities too.  Something else to consider is that, I do not know what you look for a first dates, for example.  If being physical, kissing, cuddling, touch generally is really important to you from the very start, you may be ignoring women who are a bit more reserved physically (i.e. have more self-control) in favour of those who give you what you want from the start.  It might take longer to get to know the right woman for you and for her to be physical.

One thing I would say is please do not excuse bad behaviour because someone claims past trauma, a bad ex, or anything else.  Yes, these can be reasons why people cannot hold down relationships but if you excuse it and stay with that person you risk ending up in a bad relationship because you did not see the warning signs.  It is sad that people have past traumas - many of us have - but we don't all become abusive or dishonest in relationships because of it.  Stop making excuses for women's poor behaviour.

Edited August 26, 2021 by spiderowl

[Miss Spider]

I think you’re like a lot of guys that get swept up in the superficial so you’ll over look the deeper stuff,  putup with a bunch of crap, and keep coming back… a lot of guys are like this and I’m not saying that the girl has to be a complete dime, but if  she’s your type, has a cool personality, good sx, and it’s hard for you to find but she can take or leave it, the amount of bs you’ll put up with is endless. That’s just my guess. Your T probably knows this too but can’t say it due to ethics 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[poppyfields]

My guess would be his current psychologist/therapist is a quack who's in it for the money, like many quack therapists are.

If she were to put a stop to OP's endless rantings about his toxic dysfunctional girlfriend and attempt to get to the meat of the matter -- HIS dysfunction and why he's so drawn to crazy and toxic -- he may stop seeing her like he did with the others.  Thus there goes another patient, and his money.

So she appeases him by continuing to allow him to rant and even giving quack relationship advice which she has no business giving unless his girlfriend was also a patient and this were a couples counseling session versus individual. 

Given I am embarking on a career in mental health myself (see my recent thread), this is quite upsetting to me.  Appalling.

I saw a lot of quack therapists too, I got more from reading a book for goodness sakes, many of them don't know what the hell they're doing, it's a sad state, and the patient's money wasted.

RANT OVER. 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by poppyfields

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

finding other accommodations asap, that is the biggest issue currently. 

You're in a tough spot, but that's why you moved in with her in the first place so she did not put you in that tough spot.

Go to social services for help with food, housing, career training, employment and medical and mental health care.

She's not the welfare dept. and complaining about how she's driving you nuts won't help you as much as getting federal and state assistance you are entitled to.

[balletomane]

49 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

My guess would be his current psychologist/therapist is a quack who's in it for the money, like many quack therapists are.

If she were to put a stop to OP's endless rantings about his toxic dysfunctional girlfriend and attempt to get to the meat of the matter -- HIS dysfunction and why he's so drawn to crazy and toxic -- he may stop seeing her like he did with the others.  Thus there goes another patient, and his money.

So she appeases him by continuing to allow him to rant and even giving quack relationship advice which she has no business giving unless his girlfriend was also a patient and this were a couples counseling session versus individual. 

Given I am embarking on a career in mental health myself (see my recent thread), this is quite upsetting to me.  Appalling.

I saw a lot of quack therapists too, I got more from reading a book for goodness sakes, many of them don't know what the hell they're doing, it's a sad state, and the patient's money wasted.

RANT OVER. 

 

Bear in mind that we aren't witnessing these therapy sessions, we just have OP's account of what the sessions are like. Given certain things that the OP has said in this and previous threads, I have the sense that he hears what he wants to hear. There is also the possibility that he is selective in what he shares with the therapist, in the same way he has been selective online. I would hesitate to trust that his representation is accurate.