Love2Love78 Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 In short, me and my girlfriend had issues because of triggers she had regarding a past relationship. We broke up over the last four months more times than I can count because of it. As such, while everything has been amazing since we reconciled (about two and a half weeks ago now), I can’t help but worry it might happen again. I love her and don’t want to lose her, and since we reconciled this last time, it is all the good we had and absolutely none of the bad. Not even a single argument, whereas prior, we rarely went more than a full week at best without a blowout. She has realized a large portion of it was her fears (fear of getting hurt, fear of being vulnerable, etc.). We also agreed to do couple’s counseling to ensure it never happens again (hoping to get it scheduled by the end of this week). My problem currently is that after she broke up with me so many times, it’s hard to not be afraid of her breaking up with me again. I love her so very, VERY much, and while I know I am VERY picky, she is everything I ever wanted in someone and more. I know she has a very strong love for me as well, as she kept coming back every time after our issues would happen. She also tells me things that let me know how much she loves me, like yesterday when she said “Are you really real? How can someone as amazing as you be real?” But, I can’t help but worry she might get triggered again at some point and we have another argument/breakup over it. I am so afraid of another breakup happening that I even have nightmares some nights about us breaking up or having issues. I will wake up wondering if we are ok or are having problems again. I want to just stay positive about us, but it’s hard with how many times she ended things in the past. Trying to do the couple’s counseling asap, and I know another part of me feeling more confident in us working out is time (as time is what made her eventually realize her fears were irrational and were not coming from her and I, but from her past traumas). But, other than the counseling and time, anyone have any other suggestions on how I can put my mind at ease at this point about the concerns of another breakup happening? I just don’t have much security at this point, but not sure how to move past it any faster than I am.
divegrl Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 I was waiting for you to mention trauma in her past, and you finally did in the last paragraph. This is not love, this is a trauma bond. 2
ShyViolet Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 Where to even begin. I remember your other threads about your previous dysfunctional relationships. You are jumping from one dysfunctional situation to another and this all feels very co-dependent. If you have been dating this girl 4 months, and you've broken up "more times than you can count" and you can't go one week without a "blowout", then this relationship is toxic. Of course it will happen again. The rational thing to do is not to live in fear that it will happen again; it is to put an end to this insanity and walk away, and not make the same mistakes again. You're not ready to be in a relationship until you go to some serious therapy and work on these issues. 2
glows Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 How long have you been dating? It sounds hot/cold and unreliable. You have two options: stick around and see how it unfolds (leaving this to time only) or you can pay attention to your instincts and leave. This is no way to live, I'm afraid. I would be out of here faster than the drop of a hat. I would give a honeymoon period approximately two years. If you've been dating for less than two years with all these issues, couple's counselling doesn't make sense. She has to work thorough her issues before dragging someone else into her problems and you have to learn to avoid individuals who have so many personal issues.
Wiseman2 Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Love2Love78 said: how I can put my mind at ease at this point about the concerns of another breakup happening? I just don’t have much security at this point, but not sure how to move past it any faster than I am. What are the arguments/breakups about? Unfortunately you moved into her place much to soon and for all the wrong reasons. The relationship seems volatile and unstable so "couples therapy", won't help a basically incompatible unstable situation. You feel vulnerable because it's not just a relationship, you'll need to get a place and figure out finances.
ExpatInItaly Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 You should be worried, OP, because it will happen again. This relationship is extremely dysfunctional so it would actually be quite foolish to force yourself to believe it won't happen again. It will. It's just a matter of time. 5
d0nnivain Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 You are not in a relationship. You are on a merry go round. Nothing is amazing because neither of you have good conflict resolution skills. As soon as things get tough again she will bolt again because that is what she does. When you break up, it's best to stay broken up. Read a book titled It's Called a Break Up Because It's Broken. Maybe it can be OK to take somebody back once but this constant break up make up cycle screams give up already. It's too dysfunctional.
Kai_Kai Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 4 hours ago, d0nnivain said: You are not in a relationship. You are on a merry go round. Nothing is amazing because neither of you have good conflict resolution skills. As soon as things get tough again she will bolt again because that is what she does. When you break up, it's best to stay broken up. Read a book titled It's Called a Break Up Because It's Broken. Maybe it can be OK to take somebody back once but this constant break up make up cycle screams give up already. It's too dysfunctional. ^^This. It's like getting whip lashed by the past. 1
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 6, 2021 Author Posted August 6, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 1:37 PM, divegrl said: This is not love, this is a trauma bond. I believe you are right. I suspected it might be a while back, and the more time I have to detach from her, the more I feel it was just a trauma bond. I don't have any love left for her at this point. Just sadness over what could have been if it weren't for her inability to control her anger, her injustice collecting, and unresolved traumas from previous relationships. 1
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 6, 2021 Author Posted August 6, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 1:43 PM, ShyViolet said: Where to even begin. I remember your other threads about your previous dysfunctional relationships. You are jumping from one dysfunctional situation to another and this all feels very co-dependent. If you have been dating this girl 4 months, and you've broken up "more times than you can count" and you can't go one week without a "blowout", then this relationship is toxic. Of course it will happen again. The rational thing to do is not to live in fear that it will happen again; it is to put an end to this insanity and walk away, and not make the same mistakes again. You're not ready to be in a relationship until you go to some serious therapy and work on these issues. I get that it seems like codependency. I considered that as well. But, the more I talked to my psychologist about it, the more she says it isn't. The thing is, yes I keep running into dysfunctional people for some yet unknown reason. It has been ongoing since my divorce with my ex. The biggest trauma I know I had from that was my daughter growing up in a broken home. From there on was where I started drawing toxic people to me. When I realize the people are toxic, incompatible, lying, etc., I do typically walk away. And not all have been toxic. I have been single more than I have been dating over the last six years. I'm just sick of waiting to find the one. I'm already 43, and so much of my life has already slipped by. It's not codependency. It's my dream. My dream of finding a special someone, raising our family, growing old together, sharing all those memories, the laughter, the love, the passion, etc. My dream was the typical marry, have kids, live happily ever after scenario. That scenario is long gone, so the best I can hope for instead is to find someone who loves kids and wants to play the role of stepmom and be a part of that experience with me. This woman wanted that and was great with my children. One of the many factors I weighed out in debating on giving up. As far as the breakups, this has been an ongoing issue all her life. It's not a compatibility issue with us - it is issues on her end, where when things get rough, she feels a need to run to keep from breaking down emotionally. The ONLY reason I stuck it out for a while is because she was willing to do couple's therapy. I knew she would need additional therapy as well outside of that, but even after the 2nd session, the counselor indicated to her that she wanted to do a one-on-one with her regarding her past traumas and how she continues to handle them (or more so, avoid them). The reason all my dating experiences seem toxic is because I use this place to work on the conflicts and get feedback on it. When things are good, I don't tend to come here. I guess I should to try to help others as I can, as I can give great advice, I just don't always do what I know I should myself. Over the last six years, the longest anyone lasted was about 8-10mos. Every time a serious issue came up, I walked. But, it's not a consistent issue or pattern. It has gone something like this: 1) In 2013-2014, I dated my first narcissist (after the divorce). She flipped my life upside down, as I kept taking her back when I should have known better. Lots of lies, extremely vindictive after breakups, etc. I learned a lot from it and would NEVER take her back ever again. 2) In 2017 (about 1.5yrs after breaking up with the narcissist), I dated someone for 3mos, all to find out they were unfaithful. Mostly issues due to an ex of hers that cheated, so she had really bad trust issues. As soon as I found out, I broke up with her and never looked back. 3) In 2018, I dated someone for about 8-10mos. In time, I realized she was a very selfish person who was extremely financially irresponsible, to the point of getting foreclosed on a home, multiple cars repossessed over the years (one during our relationship). When her behavior became abusive (silent treatment for over 24hrs), I broke it off with her and never looked back. 4) In 2019, dated a co-worker. I thought I knew her well, as we worked together for 3-4mos before that. Turned out she was a narcissist as well, just a different type (covert, vs the overt one I dated in 2013). When I realized all the lies I was being fed and the abusive behavior was escalating just two months into things, I left her. 5) Mid 2020, dated someone who I found out was an alcoholic and jumped right from her previous boyfriend to me (and lied to both him and me about it; I know because he reached out to me and sent me copies of all her messages to him just prior to her and I getting together). As soon as I found out about the lies and drinking issues, I walked. It only lasted 2-3wks. 6) Late 2020, I dated someone who confided in me about an abusive relationship. Said they were done and she was just waiting to get another job to kick him out. Turned out I was just an affair. It's a very long story, but she put on a VERY convincing act, and I knew 95% of what she told me about him was true, as I knew him even before she did. As soon as I found out she was being dishonest about the marriage not being over, I immediately cut things off. 7) 2021, dated someone for 2mos at the start of the year. She was very sweet and we were extremely compatible. But, she had unresolved emotional damage from her ex and wasn't ready to date. We had a very long discussion about it, I knew there was nothing we could do since she wasn't ready yet, and we ended things on civil terms, wishing each other the best. Nothing wrong there other than timing (too soon after her and her ex split up, about 10mos). 8] Most recent in 2021 was the girlfriend mentioned in here. I let things move faster with her than anyone previously because I thought I could trust her. I felt something with her I never felt with anyone previously. I had no explanation for that other than the notion that she was "the one." I trusted her when she said she was as dedicated to making us work as I was. I believed she had the same goals, the same ideals, the same values, etc. I was love bombed to the extreme with her, but I saw no red flags indicating that. The one and only red flag was the anger issue, and in the beginning, there was only one time where she had an outburst, she acknowledged it was wrong, promised to never do it again, said she was scheduling an appointment with a psychologist to work on it, and with how great everything else was, I chose to stick it out with her and work on things. I didn't want to give up on someone who I felt things for I never felt for anyone previously in my 43yrs of life. It doesn't make sense to me to this day. I don't get why I felt the way I did for it to fall apart. I can't help but feel like it's some sick joke from the universe. But as you can see, I was single for most of the last six years (the first narcissist I dated off and on from 2013 to 2016, more off than on though). When I needed to heal, I took time to myself. When I needed to reflect, I took time to myself. I didn't rush back into it just to find someone. I feel I am ready to find the right person for me. I busted my ass fixing things in my life over the last six years, and all that's missing is a special someone to share life with now. So, while I'm in no rush and refuse to settle, I also don't feel like spending x more years just being single, not trying, and growing old and dying alone. I am very independent and don't "need" anyone. I just love what a relationship offers. Touch is my top love language, so I absolutely love having someone I genuinely love to caress, kiss, cuddle with, make passionate love to, etc. I can't share those things with someone unless I can see a future with them. Otherwise, it does nothing for me. It's shallow and unfulfilling to me. But anyway, I don't know if it's just bad luck, as there isn't a pattern of "every woman I date has *this* issue." Every one has different issues. And I'm not perfect by any means myself, so I don't expect that in someone else. I have a hard time figuring out when to keep fighting for a relationship, and when to walk away from it. I know all relationships take work. I know especially at my age, we have baggage and it makes it more challenging to find compatibility. Some people just don't want to deal with certain things, like kids, exes you have kids with, etc. Anyway, I have been consulting a second counselor now as well for a few weeks. I am getting a lot of the same feedback as I was from the other one. Still the only diagnosis is moderate situational depression. Otherwise, no huge issues. I talked to her about everything, including rushing into things this time around. She did say it was too fast and I should have given it more time, I know this already. But otherwise, she understands my hesitancy to give up considering our compatibility and the difficulty finding that level of compatibility at my age. So, I am getting a second opinion, but it is nearly identical to the other psychologist. Couple's counseling is gone though, as since my ex and I split up, she no longer wants to do it of course. 1
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 6, 2021 Author Posted August 6, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 2:38 PM, Wiseman2 said: What are the arguments/breakups about? Unfortunately you moved into her place much to soon and for all the wrong reasons. The relationship seems volatile and unstable so "couples therapy", won't help a basically incompatible unstable situation. You feel vulnerable because it's not just a relationship, you'll need to get a place and figure out finances As far as what the arguments are about, that's the problem - I never know. It seems more dependent on her mood than the topic. She knows she overreacts at times, but she has no control over it once she is angry. All reasoning and rationale goes out the window until she cools down. The weird thing is that after a recent incident (accidental pregnancy and abortion shortly after finding out), we were doing amazing again. All the good, none of the bad (arguing) for three weeks straight. Then, she got paranoid of getting pregnant again, despite us using contraceptives. So, she took a morning after pill. She knew in the past, the morning after pill gave her REALLY bad mood swings, but for whatever reason, she was so paranoid that she took it. I guess she thought she could keep it under control. As soon as she took the pill, it was a complete 180 overnight. We went from no arguments and not a single issue for three weeks, to her mood swings again, being distant from me emotionally, and it killed her sex drive. Like absolutely no sex drive at all since (going on like three weeks now since that). Prior to it, she couldn't get enough sex from me, and it was all great. With that said, I can't help but feel a part of what made us good was her wanting sex from me. So long as she wanted to use me for that, we were great. But, when she didn't need me for sex, she didn't care about the rest of it (cuddling, hugs, kisses, etc.). It just all suddenly stopped. I tried to talk to her about it, but she just kept saying it was because she had no sex drive at all since the morning after pill. Eventually, it changed to "I haven't felt the same with you for months now because of prior issues with us. I don't see you the same." But, with how it was a complete 180 after the morning after pill (and the loss of her sex drive), I can't help but feel like I was being used during that time. I think there is a lot of confusion in her head. Like at one point a couple weeks ago, she told me about how she realized I wasn't the cause of her depression. She struggles with depression, but she said after thinking about how good I am to her and how I have done nothing wrong in months, there is no reason at all for me to be causing her depression. Just odd that it took that much thought to realize she can't blame that problem on me. I feel like our relationship was the scapegoat of any problems she had. Depression, insomnia, anger, etc. Once I am gone, I already know what's going to happen. The insomnia and depression will get worse (as it always has when she doesn't sleep in the same bed as me). She will know without any doubt I was not only NOT the cause, but I was actually a part of what was helping her by taking weight off her shoulders (house chores, family chores, massages, being there emotionally, etc.). Sadly, by the time she realizes I am not the source of her issues, it will be too late. I made it clear to her, if it takes me moving out for her to realize I'm not the problem, that's too much for me. I would never trust her again. I would never have confidence in her not just throwing us away again when things get stressful. It was either now or never imo. I mean who knows. Maybe when she does reach out (which she always has after every breakup), I will tell her before anything, do at least 3 mos of counseling SINGLE. Focusing on resolving her past traumas, resolving her anger issues, and time to think about if she will ever take me seriously, or if I will always be disposable. I think with how many times and how bad she has been burned in the past, she just isn't willing to give enough to meet what I need in a relationship, which is a serious commitment to family. Like I told her before, if one of our kids does something that really upsets us, we don't kick them out. We forgive and move past it. She has no problems doing that with her kids, yet with me for some reason, she holds grudges and focuses on the select few things that went wrong (injustice collecting), rather than the countless things that have gone right. I even gave her exercises to focus on the positive. Making lists, talking to each other about them, reflecting on positive conversations, texts, pictures, etc. Of all the times I mentioned it, she did it ONE time, and even then, she didn't finish the list. Put a minute or so into a list of what she loves about us, and then that was it. Never looked at it since, never finished it, etc. I think she just can't emotionally handle a relationship. She is so sensitive and so worried about being hurt again that her fear causes her to focus on the bad and overlook the good. It's sad, but there's nothing I can do about that. Maybe she will change in the future, maybe it will be a lifelong thing for her. Maybe she will just have to one day be with someone who is ok with an off and on relationship, where it is so casual that neither takes the other very seriously. It's not what she ideally wants (at least according to her claims), but it seems emotionally, that's all she can handle.
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 6, 2021 Author Posted August 6, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 2:45 PM, ExpatInItaly said: You should be worried, OP, because it will happen again. This relationship is extremely dysfunctional so it would actually be quite foolish to force yourself to believe it won't happen again. It will. It's just a matter of time. I thought there was hope because of her agreeing to do couple's counseling, acknowledging she had issues to work on (and trying to work on them), and how for those 3 weeks (until the morning after pill), we were amazing. I mean dream come true amazing. All happiness and love, not a single hiccup that whole time. I really thought she was making the effort to change, but her body is so sensitive to hormonal changes that the morning after pill completely threw her off again. Even if it wasn't the morning after pill, it was only a matter of time. I know that. Whether her next period, or next stressful period of her life, something would have triggered it again regardless. The morning after pill was just the catalyst for the inevitable. Just sad because of the potential I saw here. If it weren't for her anger and injustice collecting issues, we would be amazing. We both know this, but we can't seem to fix it.
ExpatInItaly Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said: for those 3 weeks (until the morning after pill), we were amazing. I mean dream come true amazing. All happiness and love, not a single hiccup that whole time. Your relationship is in serious trouble when just three weeks of no hiccups seems like a dream, OP. That's an indication of extreme dysfunction, not things getting back on track. It suggests that the default of the relationship is drama and toxicity. You're just so used to the chaos that your perception of "happiness and love" is completely skewed now. Edited August 6, 2021 by ExpatInItaly 4
ShyViolet Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Love2Love78 said: I get that it seems like codependency. I considered that as well. But, the more I talked to my psychologist about it, the more she says it isn't. The thing is, yes I keep running into dysfunctional people for some yet unknown reason. When you are repeatedly surrounded with trainwreck drama in multiple relationships, YOU are the common denominator. It's not "some unknown reason". YOU are making bad choices. The responsible thing to do when a person starts showing signs of being a high-drama, emotionally unstable person is to remove yourself from the situation. Once you choose to stay engaged with the drama, you have no one to blame but yourself. You don't seem to have developed the emotional intelligence needed to have a healthy relationship. 6
divegrl Posted August 7, 2021 Posted August 7, 2021 Could say so much about this whole thread, but will leave it at this. People can change and heal, but only when THEY want to. You cannot force her to work on her past trauma or anger issues; she has to want it. You will know when she actually wants to heal, when she starts taking actionable steps (on her own) for a very long period. Years. Just a note - somatic therapy and mindfulness are recommended for trauma survivors. CBT ( talk therapy) does not access the part of brain/body where trauma is held. Wishing you the best. 1
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 7, 2021 Author Posted August 7, 2021 On 8/6/2021 at 3:18 PM, ExpatInItaly said: Your relationship is in serious trouble when just three weeks of no hiccups seems like a dream, OP. That's an indication of extreme dysfunction, not things getting back on track. It suggests that the default of the relationship is drama and toxicity. You're just so used to the chaos that your perception of "happiness and love" is completely skewed now. You're absolutely right on this one. She just can't handle relationships. That's why she has been single the majority of the last 7yrs. It's why every ex was either VERY casual with no problems at all, or non-casual but horrible human beings. No in between with her. Again, I only had hope when she admitted she had a problem and tried to work on it. But, then her mood changes and she doesn't want to. The latest breakup was very heartbreaking and I can't do it anymore. I confronted her on something I already suspected, and she told me she loves me, but isn't "in love" with me anymore. Crushed me. Nothing left to fight for, so at least it makes it easier in that regard. Hurts though loving someone that never felt the same.
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 7, 2021 Author Posted August 7, 2021 23 hours ago, ShyViolet said: When you are repeatedly surrounded with trainwreck drama in multiple relationships, YOU are the common denominator. It's not "some unknown reason". YOU are making bad choices. The responsible thing to do when a person starts showing signs of being a high-drama, emotionally unstable person is to remove yourself from the situation. Once you choose to stay engaged with the drama, you have no one to blame but yourself. You don't seem to have developed the emotional intelligence needed to have a healthy relationship. I know I keep finding the wrong people. I know I keep making bad choices. The "why" is what I can't figure out. And some are fine, just doesn't end up going past a few dates. Made some new friends in the process though. But, with every one of them that lasted 3+mos over the last eight years, they all have BAD issues. Maybe I attract the damaged ones because of how damaged I am from what happened with my children (very long story including a custody battle). But, I fixed it and did all I could there, so I have nothing left to "fix" on my end per say. Just want to find someone decent to share life with. ShyViolet, as far as what you said about removing yourself when there are signs, that's the problem - I don't know where to draw that line at times. I mean no one is perfect. If I walk away from anyone who ever shows the slightest hint of issues, I will be single the rest of my life. And I'm already probably halfway through life, yet still no one here by my side, which is just depressing. I know I need to develop my emotional intelligence and have worked on it. It is better than it used to be, and I have had healthy relationships in the past prior to my divorce. It has only been since that.
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 7, 2021 Author Posted August 7, 2021 16 hours ago, divegrl said: Could say so much about this whole thread, but will leave it at this. People can change and heal, but only when THEY want to. You cannot force her to work on her past trauma or anger issues; she has to want it. You will know when she actually wants to heal, when she starts taking actionable steps (on her own) for a very long period. Years. Just a note - somatic therapy and mindfulness are recommended for trauma survivors. CBT ( talk therapy) does not access the part of brain/body where trauma is held. Wishing you the best. Thanks for the info, and yes, multiple others have said working on issues like hers would take years. That's a part of the reason why I know I have to give up here, no matter how much I care for her.
chillii Posted August 8, 2021 Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Love2Love78 said: You're absolutely right on this one. She just can't handle relationships. That's why she has been single the majority of the last 7yrs. It's why every ex was either VERY casual with no problems at all, or non-casual but horrible human beings. No in between with her. Again, I only had hope when she admitted she had a problem and tried to work on it. But, then her mood changes and she doesn't want to. The latest breakup was very heartbreaking and I can't do it anymore. I confronted her on something I already suspected, and she told me she loves me, but isn't "in love" with me anymore. Crushed me. Nothing left to fight for, so at least it makes it easier in that regard. Hurts though loving someone that never felt the same. Sorry to say and not that l've read all of them fully but tbh through your first post l wondered just how actually in love , she was . And then you say she uses you sexually so to her even subconsciously she's controlled and nice until she gets what she wants but after that who cares so to speak. Anything based on the sexual ain't gonna last even if she doesn't realize it is . But then she must be what 40s to then , she's got personality disorders too. Doesn't matter what caused it if she's 40s and always been like that then it's probably not gonna get much better apart from a few spats of good behavior until she cracks again. Maybe with the right love and right partner she could improve herself , but whatever is between you two certainly isn't working. But eh , at the very top of the tree first and most basic of all , is our partner should be as in love with us as we are with them and vise versa , but this one doesn't even sound like that anyway either tbh. Edited August 8, 2021 by chillii 1
IrinaM Posted August 8, 2021 Posted August 8, 2021 So where will you live if you break up with your girlfriend? You moved in with her because of "landlord drama." When I read your posts, I hear an emotionally abusive man who is angry that he cannot attract a high-value mate. I can't believe that after having three illegitimate children who you struggle to provide child support for, you got another woman pregnant and took her to have an abortion, which you speak about very casually. Quote Like I told her before, if one of our kids does something that really upsets us, we don't kick them out. We forgive and move past it. She has no problems doing that with her kids, yet with me for some reason, she holds grudges and focuses on the select few things that went wrong (injustice collecting), rather than the countless things that have gone right. Your belief that a relationship of a few months, with a very low level of commitment (dating) is equal to the bond between parent and child is baffling. What are these "select few things that went wrong"? I think you are minimizing your role in this dysfunction. Quote I even gave her exercises to focus on the positive. Making lists, talking to each other about them, reflecting on positive conversations, texts, pictures, etc. Of all the times I mentioned it, she did it ONE time, and even then, she didn't finish the list. Put a minute or so into a list of what she loves about us, and then that was it. Never looked at it since, never finished it, etc. This sounds very controlling to me. It also sounds like the thought pattern of a typical abuser, "but what about all the nice things I do." What expectations do you have of yourself as a man? For example, maintaining stable housing? Do your children visit with you at this new girlfriend's house? That's not setting a good example and you know it. I think you should focus on yourself and not psychoanalyze anybody else. 2
balletomane Posted August 8, 2021 Posted August 8, 2021 Your girlfriend didn't take the morning after pill because she's paranoid. She took it because she's a sexually irresponsible woman in a relationship with a sexually irresponsible man. You moved in with her when you barely knew her. In another thread, you talked about buying her those morning after pills because the two of you weren't using any other protection (and you even complained that she wasn't willing to take them regularly!). Now you casually mention a pregnancy and an abortion as though these aren't a big deal, and you act as if your girlfriend's fear of another pregnancy is all the product of irrational hormones when in reality it's a perfectly sensible fear based on how the two of you behave. Emphasis on the two of you. It's not just her. It's you too. You have an equal share in this. Once again, you don't seem to realise that, and this is a pattern with all your threads. 3 1
JRabbit Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 On 8/7/2021 at 6:38 PM, Love2Love78 said: I know I keep finding the wrong people. I know I keep making bad choices. The "why" is what I can't figure out. And some are fine, just doesn't end up going past a few dates. Made some new friends in the process though. But, with every one of them that lasted 3+mos over the last eight years, they all have BAD issues. I used to think this too...until I realized I was solely responsible for choosing the wrong and bad men over and over again. It was MY inability to look at them, and act on the red flags early. I ignored them. You are finding these people because you are attracted to them, only you can break this pattern. You therapist should be able to help. 1
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 24, 2021 Author Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) On 8/8/2021 at 1:01 AM, IrinaM said: So where will you live if you break up with your girlfriend? You moved in with her because of "landlord drama." When I read your posts, I hear an emotionally abusive man who is angry that he cannot attract a high-value mate. I can't believe that after having three illegitimate children who you struggle to provide child support for, you got another woman pregnant and took her to have an abortion, which you speak about very casually. Your belief that a relationship of a few months, with a very low level of commitment (dating) is equal to the bond between parent and child is baffling. What are these "select few things that went wrong"? I think you are minimizing your role in this dysfunction. This sounds very controlling to me. It also sounds like the thought pattern of a typical abuser, "but what about all the nice things I do." What expectations do you have of yourself as a man? For example, maintaining stable housing? Do your children visit with you at this new girlfriend's house? That's not setting a good example and you know it. I think you should focus on yourself and not psychoanalyze anybody else. It seems you are looking to criticize me due to your personal biases and a severe lack of information. To start, "emotionally abusive"? Are you kidding me? I have MULTIPLE exes who I remain friends with, two of which I confided in about this situation after our breakup. Both told me the same thing - I am a sweet person and she took advantage of that. Not the slightest clue where you got that I am "emotionally abusive." I think you are taking some personal experience of yours and projecting it onto me to have something to take out your frustrations on. I am already going through enough, so if all you are going to do is criticize someone already in tremendous pain, get lost. I do not have "3 illegitimate children." My daughter was from a marriage, and my twins were NOT planned by me. I was told she was on birth control, but she took it on herself to come off of it. And yes, providing for 3 kids is not easy, but are you suggesting that I don't deserve love because of that??? As far as the abortion, how am I supposed to speak about it? I spoke of it objectively, not "casually." No, I didn't include how much I cried over it, or how I wished things were better financially and in the relationship and that we could have had a child together. It was extremely heartbreaking to me, but because I didn't explicitly state that, you make the false assumption that it was "casual" to me??? In fact, I watched a Big Bang episode recently, where Bernadette found out she was pregnant. I couldn't finish the episode because I was crying too much. I thought after my 3 I was done. But, I just wished I could have had that experience with someone that lasted - where we shared having a baby together and we stuck through it all. At my age, I'm most likely never going to have that, and it just breaks my heart that at one point, I was so in love with this woman that she changed my mind about kids, but that it's too late now. I feel like my life is just slipping through my fingers without a partner and that by the time I do find "the one" for me, there won't be much of my life left to share with them. She got pregnant while we were using contraceptives. It was VERY unexpected on both ends. At the start, the morning after pill was our only option since we both have reactions to certain contraceptives. She claimed she was going to schedule to get an IUD asap, so I thought it was going to be a very short-lived problem. And yea, I was VERY attracted to her, so I wasn't going to just sit around for weeks or months never having sex. We took the best precautions we could at the time, she still got pregnant. All forms of contraceptive has at least a small chance of failing. I have no idea why you're trying to hold that against me??? And it wasn't "a relationship of a few months." It would be six months in another week now. On top of that, living together, being a regular part of each others children's lives, fixing up our home together, and sharing every day/evening together as we are able. Things moved fast because of the chemistry that seemed to be there. I didn't find out until recently that a lot of the chemistry was only on my end, and much of what was said on her end was merely love-bombing for her personal goals, which seem now to be sex and affection. When she doesn't want those, she doesn't care about me at all whatsoever from what I see. Anyway, over time, yes, a serious relationship that you both agree you want to be permanent, monogamous, etc. should be taken just as seriously as children. In time, your children grow up and move out on their own. The spouse is the one you raised them with and had that experience with. They are the ones who stay with you as the children go out to make their own families. So yes, to me, a spouse (in time) should be just as important as the children, if not more so as you get older since they are the one who is always with you. We discussed these things in length, and I was told she wanted the same. If we didn't see this as serious and permanent, I never would have moved in. I just didn't see a lot of this when I did move in. What I saw was someone pretending to want all the same things I do. I now see most of it was a lie. And no, the suggestions given to us by a relationship book we BOTH read together is hardly "controlling." She kept focusing on the two things that went wrong in the nearly six months of us being together. And neither were huge. No cheating, no lying, no stealing, etc. They are of a personal nature which I am not comfortable disclosing here, but neither were huge issues. All I did was tell her that if she wanted to stop focusing on the negative, this is how she can do it. I didn't force her to sit down and do it, I only gave her advice based on what she said she was trying to move past. You again seem to be making up false assumptions. You also seem to forget she told me she WANTED to change, but didn't know how! That is why we read the book on relationships (psychology based and a best seller). That is why we were doing couple's counseling. We were BOTH trying to fix this, so I was merely reminding her of the exercises we read about in the book to focus on the positives. You don't know me, but are for some reason making me out to be a horrible person who constantly makes bad decisions. When I'm with someone, a part of my problem is I can put them ahead of me at times. I try to do what they want (TV, movies, going out/staying in, etc.). I cook what they want for dinner. I give them massages regularly. I ask what I can do to make them happier. I am a giver, one that has been taken advantage of now more times than I care to say, and you have the gall to come up in here thinking you know everything and attack me?! You want to talk abuse? Ok, let me tell you what I haven't yet. When she gets angry, she loses control. It's our biggest obstacle. She yells, swears, calls you names, talks over you (to control the conversation), makes false accusations against you (paranoid delusions), says things to intentionally hurt you, threatens the relationship (or ends it), and has no remorse at all whatsoever while doing so. What do I do in response? I try to speak softly to get her to calm down. I try to correct her misconceptions. I try to explain what she misunderstood. But, most the time when she is angry, all reasoning goes out the window and as such, communication isn't possible. She knows this and even said all this to our counselor and said she needed help with it. She has done this countless times to me now. I have NEVER, not even ONCE, yelled back at her, called her names, etc. That is NOT who I am because I am NOT abusive and refuse to abuse back when abuse. I try to resolve and fix things as quickly as I can, and when I realize I can't, then I walk away and let her cool down. But, you never know how long it will take for her to cool down. At best, she needs at least a good half hour to cool down. More often than not, she needs days to cool down, while you are blown off and dismissed for those days. Other times, it has taken over a week. So yes, the more I look at us while I am detaching, the more I realize how much of a joke this relationship was, and how much I should have run away from a long time ago. I only hung on with the hope that she would change (since she flat out asked for couple's counseling in order to try to change, along with admitting her problems and what she needed to work on). I already know what I need to work on. I ignore red flags at the start sometimes. I give people the benefit of the doubt because I look for the best in them. I hate letting something go when I am unsure. I wonder what if I'm wrong? What if what I am seeing as a red flag is something I just don't understand yet? What if I leave someone I could have been amazing with if I just kept an open mind? I rarely find people I have chemistry with to the point where I want more than a first date, so when that does occasionally happen, I hate letting go unless I know for sure there is no hope. Like if someone is narcissistic, or if they have issues and don't acknowledge those issues, etc. Things like that. I am working on realizing when to walk away from something, remembering that if it happens at the start of the relationship, it will most likely continue through the rest of the relationship. As far as what you asked about my personal expectations as a man, I have tons. I actually have VERY high standards for myself. It's why I excel at work, why I was commencement speaker at college, why I ran our honor's societies, why most exes eventually try to get me back, etc. What I offer in a relationship is complete honesty, loyalty, understanding, compassion, passion (touch is my top love language), and being a giver has a list in and of itself. Like I love cooking for the person I'm with, or leaving love notes hidden in her purse or on her work desk to stumble onto. I love massaging the person I'm with. Sexually, I am all about what pleases them (within my own boundaries of course). I am a pleaser, and while I am far from perfect, I know that when it comes to a relationship, I am a good catch. As far as my kids, I am not getting into that. All I will say is that with how things are now, I am not bringing my kids around her anymore. I love my children more than words could ever describe. I have read over a dozen child psychology books, starting when I first found out my ex wife was pregnant with our daughter. I wanted to make sure I raised them as best as possible, and I handle my dating in a way that I feel best introduces them gradually and at a pace they are comfortable with. They have also only met a VERY select couple people I have dated. Most don't get to the point of meeting them. Regretfully, I let other people into my heart way too fast as well at times, which leaves me vulnerable to situations like this. I just keep hoping that one day, someone will come along that is worth it. Someone who is also honest right from the start. Someone who knows themselves enough to know what they truly want. Someone who when they tell me they are committed to us and our relationship, actually stands by that like I do when I tell it to someone. As far as your suggestion of "focusing on myself," I have done that (and on my children) for the majority of the last five years. Three different psychologist and a psychiatrist now all say there is nothing wrong with me beyond situational depression (caused by the issues with my parenting plan previously). These four people were from three different organizations, all with full evaluations, two that I saw regularly, one psychologist for about a year, another one for going on over two years now. Yes, from my posts, it looks like I'm really screwed up. The thing that is screwed up about me is what I already stated previously - I let people into my heart way too fast, get my hopes up too fast, overlook red flags, give too much of a benefit of the doubt, and overall make poor decisions when it comes to relationships. I have worked on it, and until this latest relationship, I was actually doing very good and taking things slower with women. I made an exception because I thought based on this woman and what I got to know about her that things would work. Clearly, I was wrong, and it's another lesson on my part. But, I have spent the majority of the last 8yrs single now. I'm tired of being single. I'm tired of failed relationships. As far as work, I have myself in check. As far as my children, I do a good job raising them, and they have enough financially to meet all their needs and then some. As far as a home, I was planning on getting one next year after a big debt falls off my credit. But, to me, I could care less if someone owns or rents, nor what kind of money they make. What I care about in another person is honesty, a good heart, intelligence, knowing what they want (and wanting similar things as I do), family-oriented, no serious psychological issues, and dedication to the relationship and its growth. I don't feel I ask for much, and none of the psychologists to date can figure out why I started attracting unhealthy partners since my divorce (I did NOT have these types of dating experiences prior to that). They write it off as bad luck and me not paying enough attention to red flags at the start. I agree with the red flag thing, but do feel there is more. But, I am certainly in a place in life where I am ready to have a partner, have a lot to offer a partner, and in my 40s, am tired of being alone. I want someone who wants to be a part of my parenting with me. To share that experience. To be dedicated to our relationship and willing to fix issues rather than just throw us away at the first sign of trouble. Edited August 24, 2021 by Love2Love78 Because I'm a dummy brain and wanted to add something
Lotsgoingon Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 The point is that you should be afraid of her dumping you--given the history. Why would you think you should be over this by now? The fact that you say there have been no arguments of problems really makes me wonder if you guys are faking it or avoiding key issues. Every couple has some friction. 2
Author Love2Love78 Posted August 24, 2021 Author Posted August 24, 2021 19 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said: The point is that you should be afraid of her dumping you--given the history. Why would you think you should be over this by now? The fact that you say there have been no arguments of problems really makes me wonder if you guys are faking it or avoiding key issues. Every couple has some friction. Well, as far as the "over it" thing, I know a lot of her fears were based on her ex and what he did to her. In the start, she even used to say "you're just like my ex!" during the arguments. I was hoping in time, as she realized I am nothing like him at all and am genuine with my intentions, things would improve. But, after I realized this anger thing is something she has dealt with all her life, not just during and after him, I realized this is going to be something that will be far more difficult than I originally thought. We weren't avoiding key issues. When we are good, we are great. And so long as she doesn't get angry, we can talk about pretty much anything with ease. It's not until she gets angry that miscommunication happens. I think things were really good for a while there because the sadness of the abortion was a distraction to her. Plus, it put her sex drive through the roof, so she had a strong reason to keep me around. As soon as she took that morning after pill and her sex drive dropped, that is when she pulled away again. And now, she is right back to where she had been prior to the pregnancy - picking fights over stupid things. The most recent incident was this past weekend. My sons had covid and tested positive the weekend prior. So, her kids freaked out since they're deathly afraid of covid. Even though both my paramour and myself went to spend time with my boys, she stated since I was the one more in contact with them during the visit, I needed to keep away from everyone until I knew I wasn't going to get it. So, she made me stick to the bedroom all that week, even made me wear a mask when going to the kitchen (even if no one was in there - I got yelled at once for that), and she kept away from me. Meanwhile, her kids hung out with her like usual, which considering she was exposed as well, made NO sense to me at all. But, that's how I always seem to get treated around here - as the outsider. So, a week goes by and I again test negative. She said she missed me and was going to start hanging around me with a mask on (this was this past Saturday, a week after the covid scare). That night we spent together and had a great time. Sex as passionate as always, cuddling, loving on each other, and talking about our future together like everything was going to be great. The next day, I asked her to do a dinner date with me, since we didn't spend any time together that entire week. She said yes at first, but then the next day, we woke up later than she wanted to (since we stayed up late that night together). So, she tells me she has too much to do around the house and can't go out to dinner with me because of it. I tell her fine, another night then. But then about 30mins later, she says we can do a lunch thing instead since she had to go to the store anyway. I told her I was still waking up, and hoped to have a dinner together after we both got things done and could just relax and enjoy each other. Another 15mins later, she tells me she is about to leave, is going to Lowes, and was probably going to go to Panera with her son. As they are getting ready, I decide I'm going to go, as some time with her is better than nothing. So, I put on my shoes and head to the car. Her son is still getting his shoes on, and she is already in the car running the AC. Next thing, she gets an attitude with me about coming. Says "you already told me you weren't going to go, now you're coming?!" as if I'm doing something wrong. We never needed to "ask" prior to this. We just always went out together when we could, and she even invited me! Anyway, she then turns it into something completely different. Says "the only reason you're going is because you're jealous of my son and me spending time together!" Note that at this point, she was already spending tons of time with all her kids during the week since she kept away from me. So, I haven't spent time with her all week, they have, yet she chooses to cancel our dinner date, but then make time to do lunch with him, yet changes her mind about wanting me to come??? I was at a loss as to how she turned it into a jealous thing, but yes, I certainly saw it as messed up under the circumstances. I tried to tell her I just missed her and wanted to spend time with her, and if lunch was the only way to get it, then I wanted to spend the time then. She continues to insist I am "jealous," turns off the car, gets out, and starts yelling at me in the front lawn about it. I continue trying to talk calmly, at a complete loss as to why she is making up this false accusation. Her son comes out, then she gets even angrier. She accuses me of starting a fight in front of her son and like I'm doing something wrong. Meanwhile, I am continuing to talk calmly and reiterate that I just missed her this past week and wanted to spend time with her. Even her son was confused as to why she was acting that way (13yr old). He couldn't understand why she had a problem with me coming, and why she was acting like I had some hidden jealousy agenda. Told him the same thing as her, and he tried to get her to drop it and flat out told her he wanted me to come. She continued to refuse and say she wasn't going if I was going, so I just left it at that. She told me during that argument I am "no longer welcome here." Clearly ended our relationship again, all because I wanted to spend time with her after a week of me being isolated and alone. So, I basically got broken up with because I missed her, changed my mind about going out, and because of a false accusation made up in her head about some "jealousy" thing that doesn't exist. This is oftentimes what happens - she makes up false assumptions like that to justify treating me horribly and attack me. I love how she is with my kids and have told her countless times I think she is a great mother. And I in no way ever said anything about her son not coming. I just wanted to join. Never once in the past an issue about that. So, I can't help but feel there was something else that annoyed her earlier, and she just used that as the excuse to pick the fight. I think what it was is that about a half hour or so before she was ready to leave, she was in the shower, and while I normally shower with her, I was so tired that I didn't. I instead just made her some coffee, brought it to her, gave her a kiss, told her how beautiful I felt she is, and laid back down. Her daughter, while upstairs, chooses to call or text her mom all the time. She is 20, but VERY needy and dependent on her mom to do everything for her. That is an entirely different unhealthy codependency thing in and of itself, but that is fairly irrelevant to this. So, her daughter is just talking to her on the phone right after she gets out of the shower. The only entrance to our bathroom is through our bedroom. So, despite us having our bedroom door closed, her daughter busts the door open and yells, trying to scare her mom. I was changing about 1min prior to that, and we brought up the issue countless times of her kids just walking in without knocking. But, her daughter ignores it and still does it, as what I can only assume is a control move on her part. Regardless, shortly after she did this, I reminded her what both my paramour and I have multiple times. "One day, you're going to just come in like that and see something you don't want to see." She doesn't reply to me, but gives her mom a look, in which her mom softly says "I know" to her, basically dismissing me as being ridiculous for expecting her daughter to be respectful and knock before just barging into our bedroom. It was really hurtful, and I felt completely disrespected and disregarded. I told her shortly after her daughter left the room I hear her say "I know" and that it hurts that she doesn't support that we should have privacy, let alone that it's common courtesy for someone to knock before just walking into your bedroom. Neither of us do that to the kids, we always knock. Her daughter doesn't like any boundaries like that though, and her mom does very little to stop it. Her daughter is VERY jealous of her having someone, as she has been used to the last 7yrs of mom's time being focused solely on them. She expects her mom to treat her like she is 12. Make doctors appointments for her, pick up her prescriptions, cuddle with her when she has anxiety or headaches, etc. I mean literally, one night had a headache and tried to get her mom to get up out of bed with me, go upstairs, and cuddle with her in bed! 20yrs old mind you! Anyway, there's more to that situation, but back to the reason I brought that incident up... I think the reason she picked a fight was because she didn't like me telling her daughter the comment about just walking in like that. She is really weird about it. Her kids (prior to us being together) would literally just walk into her room whenever they wanted. When I asked her if she could ask them to knock from now on to respect our privacy, at first, she acted like I was making an unreasonable request! She couldn't grasp the notion that they should have the courtesy to knock before just walking in. Even though that is what she does when their doors are closed, she for some reason felt like her kids should have free roam of her room, her bed, etc. It is a very weird and codependent relationship with all of them. It seems she uses them as a distraction from relationships, so she cultivated a very unhealthy codependency between her and them. They in turn have never been taught how to be autonomous, as mom does everything for them to nurture the dependency. On top of that, she does not discipline them at all whatsoever. Her son failed school, she threatened to take away his gaming systems if he did. She didn't do it. He failed summer school as well, but again, no discipline. Back to this past weekend... I think the comment to her daughter bothered her, but she knew it shouldn't and should be expected in a relationship, so she didn't argue over it because of that. But, it was brewing in her head. Then, I told her I wasn't going to do lunch, which probably bothered her more (as she is self-admittedly spoiled and always used to getting her way). So, when I finally did decide to come, she had those things brewing in her head, got angry, and the anger causes her paranoid delusions, which manifested this time as me being "jealous" of her relationship with her son. None of it made any sense, but that is the best I can reason as to why she picked a fight. Regardless, I did absolutely nothing wrong, and was yelled at and broken up with. I can't deal with that anymore. It's beyond wrong what she did. I text her after that explaining exactly what my intentions were and how uncalled for her actions and accusations were. I also encouraged her to ask her son who he felt was the one "arguing," as like I said, she was the one yelling and swearing, I never do. She was the one he asked to calm down and asked her flat out why she was acting like that. I think that embarrassed her though, and even though I did nothing wrong, when she is embarrassed about how she is acting because of her relationship issues, who else is she going to take that out on but me, right? So, in her mind, it seems all of that was my fault. She never even had the decency to apologize about it. Since then, we haven't talked at all. She is sleeping on the couch again, not talking to me, and clearly still angry at me. I can't take that treatment anymore. All I wanted was to spend time with her after missing her all that week, and instead, she attacks me and breaks up with me. I did not deserve that at all. So, I'm taking it she hopes that the silent treatment will eventually get me out of here, which it most certainly will. I am looking into new places to live and options. I cannot and will not let myself take her back after this. It's too many times of being attacked for what I feel were completely unjustified reasons. Sure, in a few days or so, she *might* admit she was out of line, but it doesn't take away the pain I suffered as a result those days I was being ignored, nor the pain I felt of her yelling and swearing at me, nor her making a scene on the front lawn out of her inability to handle her anger. It is all just way too much now. I was stressed out all the time - dreading the next reason she was going to use to pick a fight with me and/or break up with me. It was giving me both anxiety and even insomnia. Now that I am intentionally and consciously making an effort to detach, I just finally started feeling better. Not dealing with the relationship and its volatility is sadly a weight off my shoulders. Just hurts so much because of the potential I saw for us, if only she could handle her anger. That was the one and only huge obstacle we needed to overcome, hence why I didn't want to give up. And she knows she needs to work on it, but she just isn't making enough effort. She doesn't follow through on the relationship book's suggestions. She ignored the "fair fighting rules" the counselor gave us when she got angry. She listens when calm and is very receptive, but as soon as she is angry, all of that relationship advice and material is "bullshit" and she "doesn't care" about any of it. So, as soon as the anger kicks in, any reasoning or utilizing of those resources goes out the window. And her and I have attempted to resolve it countless ways, but every time she is angry, none of them work. Nothing seems like it will work, not now. She needs therapy to work on her underlying issues causing it first. I can't sit around and continue to be abused while she does. It breaks my heart, but I have no choice. Just heartbreaking that I really thought she was "the one," all to hit a brick wall neither her nor I can break down.
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