Correlation between narcissism and not that into you

[Mrin]

On 7/17/2021 at 5:09 PM, CaliforniaGirl said:

A fair number of guys here seem to say their exes were "crazy" and had BPD and a fair number of women say their exes had NPD. It's like some people believe nobody is allowed to just not be that into them. So they attack with a label of a serious disorder.

This x1000.

Side note: in guyspeak "she went crazy" = she broke up with me

 

[Classicfiction]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:57 AM, Lotsgoingon said:

Yes, this is THE key skill of dating that eluded me for many years. I was slow to react in real time. I like a lot of people and would end up in dates with various people. But liking and wanting to date are two different things. My definition of "liking" was yeah, I enjoyed talking to them at a party. But the real action starts when you go out the first time and the second time and so on. I realized I needed to relax and evaluate after each date.

OP, start bouncing people ... early on ... and you'll one day get to someone you won't want to bounce ... and then another date with that someone you don't want to bounce ... and on and on ...

 

@AnnieB and @Wiseman2, thank you for the practical advice!  Yes this is exactly what Ive been thinking the last few days.. that if I just don't allow myself to get all butthurt over not meshing well with someone, that will save a lot of time and heartache.

It is absolutely true that I tend to keep running into a brick wall to keep a relationship alive when it isnt working lol.  Wtf

It IS a hard thing to learn though!  Because sex creates a bond and time creates a bond.  You just want to swim upstream like a crazy fish to save it

[Miss Spider]

I think the “sex bonds people” thing is way overplayed. I’m not saying there aren’t some chemicals involved, but not necessarily that much more than anywhere else. I think the thing is when people, particularly women because of how they’re socialized , have sex with a guy they tend to really like him emotionally also to begin with. That’s why women who just want sex with a guy can have a lot and never start to like him. But then you get a lot of people here that feel seriously rejected after a first date, no sex. Because they’re invested emotionally in some capacity 

[Classicfiction]

30 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

I think the “sex bonds people” thing is way overplayed. I’m not saying there aren’t some chemicals involved, but not necessarily that much more than anywhere else. I think the thing is when people, particularly women because of how they’re socialized , have sex with a guy they tend to really like him emotionally also to begin with. That’s why women who just want sex with a guy can have a lot and never start to like him. But then you get a lot of people here that feel seriously rejected after a first date, no sex. Because they’re invested emotionally in some capacity 

I've never been able to sleep with someone and not feel at least some slight bonding... just me I guess.  And actually I think the making out part gets me even more

 

[poppyfields]

10 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

I've never been able to sleep with someone and not feel at least some slight bonding... just me I guess.  And actually I think the making out part gets me even more...

I think many women do as well, BUT does that mean you (generic you not you specifically @Classicfiction) lose all rational thought when a man begins f*kking with your mind and/or otherwise treating you like cr@p?

I have never understand that mindset.  Women justifying staying in a toxic RL because she "loves" him or otherwise feels "bonded" to him.  

cookies called it overplaying it, I call it a cop out -  rationalizing (and essentially accepting) unacceptable behavior because a woman simply doesn't have the emotional/mental fortitude and strength to leave.

Edited July 26, 2021 by poppyfields

[AnnieB]

On 7/26/2021 at 3:01 PM, poppyfields said:

I think many women do as well, BUT does that mean you (generic you not you specifically @Classicfiction) lose all rational thought when a man begins f*kking with your mind and/or otherwise treating you like cr@p?

I have never understand that mindset.  Women justifying staying in a toxic RL because she "loves" him or otherwise feels "bonded" to him.  

cookies called it overplaying it, I call it a cop out -  rationalizing (and essentially accepting) unacceptable behavior because a woman simply doesn't have the emotional/mental fortitude and strength to leave.

The societal conditioning and pressure is incredible when it comes to women being in relationships/ married vs single, especially when you reach a certain age and in certain parts of the world. Women internalize the problems of the relationship to “save” the relationship that’s how much pressure there is besides fear of not being able to take care of the children on her own, etc, etc. The patriarchy bullshit is literally in our brain pathways, and compounded with other traumas she’s gone through it’s a mess.  So it’s not easy to snap out of it. 

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, AnnieB said:

Women internalize the problems of the relationship to “save” the relationship that’s how much pressure there is besides fear of not being able to take care of the children on her own, etc, etc.

If so, why would a woman jeopardize the relationship by having an affair.  Doesn't add up.

[AnnieB]

36 minutes ago, stillafool said:

If so, why would a woman jeopardize the relationship by having an affair.  Doesn't add up.

I’m sure there are individual sabotage behaviors thrown in the mix as well, not necessarily societal pressures, but maybe more personal traumas affecting self esteem. Same as why men cheat. 

[Miss Spider]

3 hours ago, AnnieB said:

The societal conditioning and pressure is incredible when it comes to women being in relationships/ married vs single, especially when you reach a certain age and in certain parts of the world. Women internalize the problems of the relationship to “save” the relationship that’s how much pressure there is besides fear of not being able to take care of the children on her own, etc, etc. The patriarchy bullshit is literally in our brain pathways, and compounded with other traumas she’s gone through it’s a mess.  So it’s not easy to snap out of it. 

I agree with this so much. I see so much of this in a lot of friends I have . I’m not saying it’s just women though but the societal pressure is definitely more on women. I see a lot of women not happy in relationships and doing pretty much everything in the rship /giving so much and they rationalize that this is what they want because it’s better to them than starting over or the face their dreaded  fear of being “alone”. Sad s***. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[CaliforniaGirl]

6 hours ago, stillafool said:

If so, why would a woman jeopardize the relationship by having an affair.  Doesn't add up.

Oh, I can fully see this. It's like rebellion. Escape.

I'm not saying I think it's okay, but if you feel pressured into something you'll probably eventually resent whatever that thing is, and you'll just basically blow it up.

[Wiseman2]

On 7/17/2021 at 4:42 PM, Classicfiction said:

could it be possible that I'm perceiving these men as narcissistic because they are not that into me??

Sour grapes is sometimes a very effective coping skill.

So sifting through the DSM for defects helps you perceive this as junk you never wanted..

It helps your mind get past things by viewing it as "I didn't want that anyway"... sort of along the lines of the "dodged a bullet" thing.

You would know if they were into or not.

Not by how or why you broke up and with whom they dated afterwards, but by how you are treated/feel during the relationship.

 It's important to realize why you pick someone in the first place and how you conduct the relationship.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Wiseman2

[Weezy1973]

On 7/31/2021 at 9:49 AM, AnnieB said:

The societal conditioning and pressure is incredible when it comes to women being in relationships/ married vs single, especially when you reach a certain age and in certain parts of the world.

The pressure isn’t external though, it’s internal. All pressure felt is internal…

[Classicfiction]

10 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sour grapes is sometimes a very effective coping skill.

So sifting through the DSM for defects helps you perceive this as junk you never wanted..

It helps your mind get past things by viewing it as "I didn't want that anyway"... sort of along the lines of the "dodged a bullet" thing.

You would know if they were into or not.

Not by how or why you broke up and with whom they dated afterwards, but by how you are treated/feel during the relationship.

 It's important to realize why you pick someone in the first place and how you conduct the relationship.

Ok so.. I am hearing you.  Here is what Im experiencing though.  I went on a second date with a guy last night.  Huge neg right at the end of the evening and tries to get in my pants.

My instincts were screaming at me that this dude has no interest in me other than sex. 

So yeah, I do feel like I keep attracting guys that seem to come at me with complexes.. like their egos are wounded from some other chick and they wanna take it out on a random.

Its only logical that I would try to figure out what the reason is for it.  And thats why I looked at the attractiveness factor and the age factor.

And the environment we're all living in with the internet and everything.  Social media, porn... the ease at which people can and do monkey branch..

Personally Im going to stay away from guys younger than 50. (I'm 40)

This is just a personal choice at this point.

 

[basil67]

3 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

So yeah, I do feel like I keep attracting guys that seem to come at me with complexes.. like their egos are wounded from some other chick and they wanna take it out on a random.

From what I read here, this behaviour is not uncommon at all.  I don't think that you're attracting them any more than any other woman does.   And I doubt that they have wounded egos and are taking it out on someone else - to me, they are simply lacking in boundaries or hopeful the woman is keen for easy sex.

Could it be possible that you're over thinking when it comes to men's behaviour?   My advice is to just push them away and give them no more thought.  

[Classicfiction]

19 minutes ago, basil67 said:

From what I read here, this behaviour is not uncommon at all.  I don't think that you're attracting them any more than any other woman does.   And I doubt that they have wounded egos and are taking it out on someone else - to me, they are simply lacking in boundaries or hopeful the woman is keen for easy sex.

Could it be possible that you're over thinking when it comes to men's behaviour?   My advice is to just push them away and give them no more thought.  

Lol.  I think there are plenty of men who are jumping through hoops for the women they have on pedestals.  In the meantime, they want quick easy sex from women who they dont see a future with.

Yes, I do believe many, many women experience what Im experiencing.. and that sucks..

Because when a man tells you how beautiful he thinks you are and how this and that is going to happen in the future, it can create a certain blindness in a woman who believes the silver tongue.  
 

And that makes it really hard to see yourself clearly... so you keep getting used because you think, "well Im beautiful and loveable and plenty of guys have talked about a future with me.."

Until one day you wake up and look around yourself and go... "waaait a minute.  Im not THAT beautiful when it comes down to it."  I mean, all you have to do is walk into a restaurant and talk to a hostess to see whats up.

Of course I think guys are hung up on women they are stalking online and in real life!  Lmfao

Not that looks are everything, but to deny the importance of physical attraction for men is silly.

Men are attracted to youth and beauty.  

 

 

[Classicfiction]

On 7/31/2021 at 2:47 PM, Cookiesandough said:

I agree with this so much. I see so much of this in a lot of friends I have . I’m not saying it’s just women though but the societal pressure is definitely more on women. I see a lot of women not happy in relationships and doing pretty much everything in the rship /giving so much and they rationalize that this is what they want because it’s better to them than starting over or the face their dreaded  fear of being “alone”. Sad s***. 

Oh I have seen soo much of this with friends of mine and in my own relationships.  You want to be valuable and worthy of love so badly that you're willing to stay in a relationship/marriage regardless of how much you get mistreated.

Nowadays, if you've built up a fantasy life for your relationship on social media, it can be devastating to let go of the mask when the real thing crumbles

I completely understand why women will stick by a man even as he obviously cheats or pursues other women.  There is social conditioning for sure

We are taught to stand by our man and fight off anyone who represents a threat.

My personal decision to date older men is about me trying to lessen as much of the stress as possible.  I just dont find the push/pull psychological mind f**ing to be sexy anymore

[basil67]

36 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

Lol.  I think there are plenty of men who are jumping through hoops for the women they have on pedestals.  In the meantime, they want quick easy sex from women who they dont see a future with.

Yes, I do believe many, many women experience what Im experiencing.. and that sucks..

Because when a man tells you how beautiful he thinks you are and how this and that is going to happen in the future, it can create a certain blindness in a woman who believes the silver tongue.  And that makes it really hard to see yourself clearly... so you keep getting used because you think, "well Im beautiful and loveable and plenty of guys have talked about a future with me.."

Until one day you wake up and look around yourself and go... "waaait a minute.  Im not THAT beautiful when it comes down to it."  I mean, all you have to do is walk into a restaurant and talk to a hostess to see whats up.

Of course I think guys are hung up on women they are stalking online and in real life!  Lmfao

Not that looks are everything, but to deny the importance of physical attraction for men is silly.

Men are attracted to youth and beauty.  

A few thoughts here:  Back when I was dating, I was attractive enough, but not beautiful.   If a guy complimented my beauty, I wouldn't dismiss him out of hand, but I would be a little wary.  Sure, telling me I look great when dressed up for dinner is fine, but too many compliments is hmmm..    Likewise, any discussions of future need to be taken with a grain of salt if you're not together for at least a year.   Though, future planning doesn't mean they are deliberately trying to deceive - it could equally be that they are caught up in the moment and getting carried away with the idea. 

Don't feel bad if you miss out on the type of men who put women on pedestals - no person is worth being put on a pedestal, because nobody is that perfect.   That said, the woman of his dreams may also jump into his bed on the first date and they live happily ever after.  A person can have quick sex with a ONS or the person of their dreams (I had sex with my husband on the day we met).  

Yes, people say that men may be attracted to youth and beauty.  People say a lot of things!  But reality is that most love and marry women who are their own age and just as average as the guy.  A look around the local mall should be a reminder of that.

[Classicfiction]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

A few thoughts here:  Back when I was dating, I was attractive enough, but not beautiful.   If a guy complimented my beauty, I wouldn't dismiss him out of hand, but I would be a little wary.  Sure, telling me I look great when dressed up for dinner is fine, but too many compliments is hmmm..    Likewise, any discussions of future need to be taken with a grain of salt if you're not together for at least a year.   Though, future planning doesn't mean they are deliberately trying to deceive - it could equally be that they are caught up in the moment and getting carried away with the idea. 

Don't feel bad if you miss out on the type of men who put women on pedestals - no person is worth being put on a pedestal, because nobody is that perfect.   That said, the woman of his dreams may also jump into his bed on the first date and they live happily ever after.  A person can have quick sex with a ONS or the person of their dreams (I had sex with my husband on the day we met).  

Yes, people say that men may be attracted to youth and beauty.  People say a lot of things!  But reality is that most love and marry women who are their own age and just as average as the guy.  A look around the local mall should be a reminder of that.

I can totally respect your point of view.  I'm not entirely counting out men my age... I believe love is possible with the right person regardless of any age or status..

But I am wary at the same time due to experience.  And having been through some pretty sh*t relationships with men my age, the idea of an older man who finds me youthful and fun is attractive.

 

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

.  I went on a second date with a guy  and tries to get in my pants.

Personally, going to stay away from guys younger than 50. (I'm 40)

Yes. Get on quality dating apps and screen well and set you criteria appropriately.

Sure, you may encounter horndogs and players, but it's as simple as shutting it down.

What do you mean "tries to get in your pants"? 

Make the first meet a brief coffee date. If it goes well, agree to a second date and avoid too much intimacy.

Having a chip on your shoulder about "all these porn-addicted internet creeps want is sex with me because  of whatever other women did to them"

Will assure that you are attracting the worst kind of people because of your own intense negativity and burnout.

Take a break from dating. Work on what's really bothering you so much.

Try to stay away from all the psychobabble on the internet and all the pseudoscience.

 

[basil67]

4 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

I can totally respect your point of view.  I'm not entirely counting out men my age... I believe love is possible with the right person regardless of any age or status..

But I am wary at the same time due to experience.  And having been through some pretty sh*t relationships with men my age, the idea of an older man who finds me youthful and fun is attractive.

Something I've observed over the years is that the men who are attracted to a woman who's 'youthful and fun' are basically immature.  He's attracted to her youth and she's attracted to him being 'young at heart'.   Then she grows out of him and realises that he's not young at heart, but rather, a guy who stays forever juvenile.  

He may be good for a fling, but he's not a keeper

[chillii]

On 7/18/2021 at 6:42 AM, Classicfiction said:

So, I have started to develop this theory through my past and present experience in the dating world.  Maybe others can see it too? I'm hoping for some feedback that will help me in the future.

Basically, I've felt that the majority of guys I've dated have fit a narcissitic profile.  But something else that I've noticed, is that they go on to have what appear to be successful relationships.  And these successful relationships, 9 times out of 10 are with women who are either younger than me, more attractive than me or both.

What I'm wondering is... could it be possible that I'm perceiving these men as narcissistic because they are not that into me??

For example, a lot of the characteristics of narcissism... like gas lighting, cold shoulder, blame shifting... it fits with the way a guy behaves when he's settling or still open to better possibilities.

So maybe I've just been dating outside my league?  

You know how they say a guy isn't going to refuse sex.  If I'm a co-dependent doormat, then I'm possibly just allowing men to use me while they're still searching for "the one."

Has anyone else noticed that these two dynamics may be related??

Whoever said a guy isn't gonna refuse is deluded.

l've refused plenty and known plenty to refuse.

lt's very simple what's going on, too many people throw too many false things like narc around these days without any professional idea whatsoever, just bc someone does this or treats them like that. No you just keep choosing guys that aren't that into you so really they just don't care very much in the end and then just move on to find someone they do actually care enough about. The pattern in it is you sorry to say , if you do what you always do you get what you always got.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by chillii

[AnnieB]

11 hours ago, chillii said:

Whoever said a guy isn't gonna refuse is deluded.

l've refused plenty and known plenty to refuse.

lt's very simple what's going on, too many people throw too many false things like narc around these days without any professional idea whatsoever, just bc someone does this or treats them like that. No you just keep choosing guys that aren't that into you so really they just don't care very much in the end and then just move on to find someone they do actually care enough about. The pattern in it is you sorry to say , if you do what you always do you get what you always got.

 

 

 

 

I believe the OP means the man will not refuse no strings attached sex.  [ ] 

Edited August 2, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
doesn't address first post

[Classicfiction]

It seems that some people who are responding to this thread are missing my point.  I am actually pointing out how the label of narcissist may in fact be coming from a misinterpretation of a man's motivations.

Yes, men will say all kinds of sh*t to get sex and yes, men will hint at future plans with a woman he knows he's not interested in for the long run.  

Does this behavior mean he's a narcissist or does it mean he's not that into that specific woman and she's not willing to see that.  Hey, Im really not hating on your natural, biological proclivities.

But good Lord, Im being labeled "sour grapes" "deluded" "chip on my shoulder"... all because Im looking at things logically.

Are we not supposed to learn from our experiences?  If my experience has been that men my age tend to use my @ss, and men of a certain level of attractiveness see me as a cheap fling... why would I not make changes to my own behavior and outlook?

I actually feel upbeat and positive about the possibilities now that Ive shifted/ broadened my dating pool.

What is really bothering me is guys my age lol.  Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity.

I just want a grown man.  Thats all.

Edited August 2, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed quote

[poppyfields]

22 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

It seems that some people who are responding to this thread are missing my point.  I am actually pointing out how the label of narcissist may in fact be coming from a misinterpretation of a man's motivations.

Yes, men will say all kinds of sh*t to get sex and yes, men will hint at future plans with a woman he knows he's not interested in for the long run.  

Does this behavior mean he's a narcissist or does it mean he's not that into that specific woman and she's not willing to see that.  Hey, Im really not hating on your natural, biological proclivities.

But good Lord, Im being labeled "sour grapes" "deluded" "chip on my shoulder"... all because Im looking at things logically.

Are we not supposed to learn from our experiences?  If my experience has been that men my age tend to use my @ss, and men of a certain level of attractiveness see me as a cheap fling... why would I not make changes to my own behavior and outlook?

I actually feel upbeat and positive about the possibilities now that Ive shifted/ broadened my dating pool.

What is really bothering me is guys my age lol.  Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity.

I just want a grown man.  Thats all.

No, I absolutely do not believe this means he's a narcissist.  As you yourself said, such men who you (generic you) are deeming narcissist because they didn't treat you the way you expected or needed to be treated, might have an entirely different dynamic with another woman.

A dynamic wherein he is respectful, honest, trustworthy, cherishing.  Committed. 

Every couple develops their own dynamic, depending on their mutual energy/chemistry and vibrations. 

Granted, some men and women have strong narcissistic traits, but there is no one size fits all, in most cases.

My feeling is, if you are experiencing these same issues with men time and time again, look within.  That is where you will find most of the answers you are seeking.

You are the common denominator in all your experiences.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by poppyfields

[Alpacalia]

On 7/17/2021 at 1:42 PM, Classicfiction said:

Basically, I've felt that the majority of guys I've dated have fit a narcissitic profile.

First, there is no sure fire way to know unless you've had each and every one of the men you've been involved with diagnosed. Second, the likelihood of the "majority of the men" that you have dated being "narcissists" is improbable.

If you have had a string of bad relationships than you need to look inward.

Maybe you're just addicted to dating the wrong people.

Have you ever had a healthy relationship?