Is it a date or just hanging out?

[LynneVicious]

He’s not gas lighting you at all. Gas lighting is making the other person question the truth and made to feel they’re the crazy or wrong one. 

Question :  where do you see this going? Because from your meetup middle last year and recently, it sounds like he’s viewing this as a very casual situationship. 

You have the most to lose here because you’re invested more emotionally. 

I don’t think this is going anywhere and I think you’re going to get very hurt. He’s an ex for a reason and he belongs in the past. Keep moving forward and don’t waste precious time by staying stuck in a situation that has no future. 

[JDam]

7 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

I don't like what this guy did to you. It takes a special level of callousness to continue having sex with someone that you know loves you and wants more from you if you're not on the same page. At the same time, I think you need to be kinder to yourself and protect yourself more. Precisely because people can be callous and selfish, you can't afford to rely on them to do right by you. You have to set the boundaries and be ready to insist that they respect them.

Agree. I just cant imagine I would ever treat someone like that. Its not like he just met me on tinder and could potentially say he did not know or thought that I was all in for this kind of situationship. He knows me very well. On the other hand, my bad that I let him do that. But it does not excuse his behavior. 
 

you may all wonder why Im having such a hard time letting go… but we were college sweethearts and he was my first boyfriend. First in everything.  we had a beautiful relationship so it just hurts so much to see how he has changed and now treats me like absolute trash. 
 

4 hours ago, LynneVicious said:

He’s not gas lighting you at all. Gas lighting is making the other person question the truth and made to feel they’re the crazy or wrong one.

Yea but gaslighting is also belitteling the other persons legitimate concerns, eg calling them “unnecessary drama”. He acts as if he was all surprised Im now reaching out after that last meeting when he said we would go for a brunch/skiing etc. He acts as if he never said that. When I ask if he is ignoring me, because I feel like Im being ignored he freaks out and says “this conversation and its tone does not make sense”. Oh well..

 

i want to say thank you all so much for your thoughts, I really do appreciate you taking time to reply!!!

[Acacia98]

16 minutes ago, JDam said:

Agree. I just cant imagine I would ever treat someone like that. Its not like he just met me on tinder and could potentially say he did not know or thought that I was all in for this kind of situationship. He knows me very well. 

I agree. That's what makes his actions especially terrible in my eyes. You guys are supposed to have had an amazing relationship then, down the road, he does this thing that, in my opinion, devalues whatever you shared in the past and undermines the idea that he cares about you. It would have been different if you'd wanted an FWB or if you were random strangers. It's the sort of thing that can make you wonder if your past relationship meant as much to him as it did to you.

I can't help thinking that people usually don't undergo sudden personality changes. There must have been elements of the selfishness, callousness, and manipulation in your relationship back when you guys were together. Maybe he directed them at other people and not at you. Maybe they were more subtle and appeared less frequently. But they were probably present in some form.

[Cali Lisa]

You broke up 7 years ago and you are still waiting for him to love you the way you love him. He can't because you act like you don't love yourself. There is so much in this world to explore, you will meet men who will love you, cherish you, teach you, shape you into the woman you were meant to become. This guy is not all in. You want someone who will be reliable and love you without reservation. You can't find that unless you allow your heart to heal and your spirit to grow from the pain. Even if he agreed to marry you, he is not your happiness. You know he is not there for you. You know he is a slippery guy who says things that mean nothing to him. He just doesn't want to close the door to having sex and fun with you. Learn to ask yourself: is this what I want? If not, move on. I don't care what you tell him, whether you block him or not. You need to make a decision to move on and stick with it. Stop chasing after a guy who doesn't want you as much as you want him. You don't want such a man in your life. He doesn't bring you security, comfort, love or protection. He is only there to use you when you feel like allowing him to use you. He is not an honest person, he is not your friend. If he cared about you, he would never use you. Would your mother only call you when she needs something from you? What is he giving you other than cheap stuff like cuddles and NY wishes and his penis? Forget about him, he is not Mr. Right. Period. 

[JDam]

10 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

I agree. That's what makes his actions especially terrible in my eyes. You guys are supposed to have had an amazing relationship then, down the road, he does this thing that, in my opinion, devalues whatever you shared in the past and undermines the idea that he cares about you. It would have been different if you'd wanted an FWB or if you were random strangers. It's the sort of thing that can make you wonder if your past relationship meant as much to him as it did to you.

I can't help thinking that people usually don't undergo sudden personality changes. There must have been elements of the selfishness, callousness, and manipulation in your relationship back when you guys were together. Maybe he directed them at other people and not at you. Maybe they were more subtle and appeared less frequently. But they were probably present in some form.

Yeah, you are spot on. That is exactly how I feel about this situation. He absolutely degraded the memories which I began to cherish after some time apart and after the negative emotions wore off.

actually, when he broke up with me, he got in touch after about a year and wanted to meet up. I initially ignored thw messages but he persisted and then we met. After I asked him back then (after he initiated the first time) if he wanted to meet up again because I enjoyed our time, he was pretty nasty yet very clear that Im asking only to get him back, that he does not believe in reconciliations and that it was iust a friendly meeting. It offended me so much that I told him to never ever contact me again. He did after 6 years, after his ex broke up with him. And thats how it all started again. I had a different mindset now, but hooking up with him was a terrible idea. 

10 hours ago, Cali Lisa said:

You broke up 7 years ago and you are still waiting for him to love you the way you love him. He can't because you act like you don't love yourself. There is so much in this world to explore, you will meet men who will love you, cherish you, teach you, shape you into the woman you were meant to become. This guy is not all in. You want someone who will be reliable and love you without reservation. You can't find that unless you allow your heart to heal and your spirit to grow from the pain. Even if he agreed to marry you, he is not your happiness. You know he is not there for you. You know he is a slippery guy who says things that mean nothing to him. He just doesn't want to close the door to having sex and fun with you. Learn to ask yourself: is this what I want? If not, move on. I don't care what you tell him, whether you block him or not. You need to make a decision to move on and stick with it. Stop chasing after a guy who doesn't want you as much as you want him. You don't want such a man in your life. He doesn't bring you security, comfort, love or protection. He is only there to use you when you feel like allowing him to use you. He is not an honest person, he is not your friend. If he cared about you, he would never use you. Would your mother only call you when she needs something from you? What is he giving you other than cheap stuff like cuddles and NY wishes and his penis? Forget about him, he is not Mr. Right. Period. 

Yeah, theres nothing to add. You are right of course. I think I should work some more on my self worth and dignity

[glows]

JDam, he's opportunistic and unfortunately not thinking or feeling like you. The error is expecting him to hold your past in high esteem while in reality he may not and you are only one woman out of others he's been with in the past. You think of him as your first for a lot of things but he may not have such a sentimental view of you or what you shared.

People are different and view each other and their exes in different ways. I say he's opportunistic because not only did he gain sex and intimacy with someone who he knew was easy picking (your deeper feelings for him made you easy to snag), he also got course materials or study materials from you. And all this without so much as batting an eye. When he got what he wanted he split especially after feeling a little harangued by your desire to see him more often. He was never there to spend time with you in a loving, caring, reciprocal or devoted relationship. 

This doesn't make you unworthy of love or without dignity. Most people have been shot down at some point or felt discarded because of someone else's decisions or choices, lack of consideration or respect. You had a soft spot for him but I don't think he felt the same way about you. If he was ever caring towards you in the past that is over. People do change and evolve and the person he might have evolved into is a lot different than the person you remember of the past.

 

 

[Cali Lisa]

10 hours ago, JDam said:

Yeah, theres nothing to add. You are right of course. I think I should work some more on my self worth and dignity

But that's good news, trust aunt Lisa!  You think he is all that because you are still attached to him. Even if he is the best thing in the world, he is not for you. I don't want the best guy in the world, I just want someone who is right for me. Move on, stop talking to him and seeing him. Time will heal you, time will show you that nobody is irreplaceable, time will help you grow, and in time, you will meet the right guy. If this was meant to be, he would have been sure that he wants to be with you. It doesn't sound like you broke up because you were a horrible person. 

[JDam]

10 hours ago, glows said:

JDam, he's opportunistic and unfortunately not thinking or feeling like you. The error is expecting him to hold your past in high esteem while in reality he may not and you are only one woman out of others he's been with in the past. You think of him as your first for a lot of things but he may not have such a sentimental view of you or what you shared.

People are different and view each other and their exes in different ways. I say he's opportunistic because not only did he gain sex and intimacy with someone who he knew was easy picking (your deeper feelings for him made you easy to snag), he also got course materials or study materials from you. And all this without so much as batting an eye. When he got what he wanted he split especially after feeling a little harangued by your desire to see him more often. He was never there to spend time with you in a loving, caring, reciprocal or devoted relationship. 

This doesn't make you unworthy of love or without dignity. Most people have been shot down at some point or felt discarded because of someone else's decisions or choices, lack of consideration or respect. You had a soft spot for him but I don't think he felt the same way about you. If he was ever caring towards you in the past that is over. People do change and evolve and the person he might have evolved into is a lot different than the person you remember of the past.

 

 

Glows, I always love your posts, they are always so comforting
 

I think one the reasons I also cannot seem to let go is fear of future. Im 33 and even though this is all irrational because of his awful behavior, Im really starting to worry if there is anyone out there for me. Ive been single pretty much my whole life, dated two guys after my first relationship but it never worked out. In reality this was my only meaningful relationship, I dont really know anything besides this relationship. This will sound weird but given Im 33, I really dont know how much time I have left to start a family with someone new. So the vision of this relationship was somehow comforting in the sense we already know each other. But of course now I see clearly what he is like, having a family with him would be a disaster. 

2 hours ago, Cali Lisa said:

But that's good news, trust aunt Lisa!  You think he is all that because you are still attached to him. Even if he is the best thing in the world, he is not for you. I don't want the best guy in the world, I just want someone who is right for me. Move on, stop talking to him and seeing him. Time will heal you, time will show you that nobody is irreplaceable, time will help you grow, and in time, you will meet the right guy. If this was meant to be, he would have been sure that he wants to be with you. It doesn't sound like you broke up because you were a horrible person. 

Thank you! I hope you are right, even though Im not really optimistic. As mentioned, I have been single pretty much my whole life, dont know exactly why. Im sick of getting back to an empty apartment each day. I really do miss companionship and love. This is what made it so hard to let go.

 

guys, again, thank you all so much. I think I will keep some of your wonderful posts to remind myself each time I would miss him that he is just not right for me.  I will keep you posted about what happened next.  

[Cali Lisa]

20 minutes ago, JDam said:

Thank you! I hope you are right, even though Im not really optimistic. As mentioned, I have been single pretty much my whole life, dont know exactly why. Im sick of getting back to an empty apartment each day. I really do miss companionship and love. This is what made it so hard to let go.

That's all a part of the process. Me too, I have spent years alone in between guys. I am single now. I don't need a man at this moment. When I was younger, I hated going back to an empty apartment. Sleeping alone hurt. I wanted nothing unless I was loved by a man. That changed. I started to explore ME like never before. I am the love of my life.

Focus on your dreams and purpose in life, honey. That is what's going to attract the right man eventually, but most of all, it will bring you self-confidence, self-respect, independence and joy. You are not "done" with other things in your life. You never will be. I am in my late 40s and I am just discovering myself now. It is such a beautiful process and I can't wait to learn more. I started treating myself with love for the first time. And there is nothing more beautiful than being with the person I can trust and rely on, who knows what is best for me - that's myself. I am not lonely. I have a list of movies I still hadn't watched because I don't have time to watch them. I am busy enjoying my own company, learning new things and pursuing my dreams. There is life in between guys, a very good one. 

[glows]

59 minutes ago, JDam said:

Glows, I always love your posts, they are always so comforting
 

I think one the reasons I also cannot seem to let go is fear of future. Im 33 and even though this is all irrational because of his awful behavior, Im really starting to worry if there is anyone out there for me. Ive been single pretty much my whole life, dated two guys after my first relationship but it never worked out. In reality this was my only meaningful relationship, I dont really know anything besides this relationship. This will sound weird but given Im 33, I really dont know how much time I have left to start a family with someone new. So the vision of this relationship was somehow comforting in the sense we already know each other. But of course now I see clearly what he is like, having a family with him would be a disaster. 

Thank you! I hope you are right, even though Im not really optimistic. As mentioned, I have been single pretty much my whole life, dont know exactly why. Im sick of getting back to an empty apartment each day. I really do miss companionship and love. This is what made it so hard to let go.

 

guys, again, thank you all so much. I think I will keep some of your wonderful posts to remind myself each time I would miss him that he is just not right for me.  I will keep you posted about what happened next.  

Glad I could help in some small way. You just need time to get out of this haze and disappointment that this person is. 

Fears can be useful in guiding us towards changing or adapting to new situations.

Perhaps you’re overlooking men in the crowd who are not as loud or entertaining and bypassing those who are a better match in terms of your goals for a family and lifelong commitment for example. It’s an opportunity to adjust your lenses or see things differently if you’re finding yourself attracted to one kind of person.

And lastly I just wanted to mention one relationship can teach a lot regarding resiliency, patience and compatibility. Don’t underestimate yourself.

 

[JDam]

Hi everyone, 

just wanted to let you know how it all ended. At the beginning of January, after he got mad I asked if he was ignoring me and said he would let me know about Sunday - he did not. It really made me angry so I called him out on that. Yes, it was a mistake, but I had to get it off my chest, so I told him that I really did not expect him to ghost me and that we are two mature people and I would expect him to be honest. I said I feel like he had no respect for me as a woman and as a human being. This led to a long text exchange and meeting up in person. He then blamed it all on me - he said he felt so good when we were together but this "talk" and me asking about him ignoring me caused him to change his mind. He said he would think it all over again and let me know. Yesterday - Friday evening - after I went silent for two weeks and after this last in person conversation, he sent me a text which goes something like this (translation): Im sorry for not reaching out earlier. I dont want to ghost you or whatever. I did a lot of thinking. I think our relationship is so burdened by our past that meeting up again would be like rubbing salt into old wounds. You think I did you wrong and my feelings are just complicated, as I told you two weeks ago. Im sorry but I think there is probably nothing that can be done about it. 

I think most of you will regard this text as honest but I just dont. He again blames ME for the situation, while the bottom line and only cause of the situation is that does not want to be with me. So he is gaslighting again, making me feel horrible about myself, while all the past year we slept with each other he damn knew what it was about - hooking up at his convinience. In August he says he doesnt want to meet any longer because Im acting as if we had not broken up 6 years ago. I let him go, he reaches out after a month, then we meet up again and now he says he does not want to meet up BECAUSE of our past which burdens the relationship. Im just so sick of him. I just replied: "OK ;) be well" 

I dont know whether to block him or not, unfollow, mute (on instagram). I think I will just block him. Normally, I would not do this, but Im afraid that if I heal again, he will reach out again sooner or later. Im just absolutely sick of this crazy guy.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, JDam said:

I dont know whether to block him or not, unfollow, mute (on instagram). I think I will just block him.

Yes, delete and block him on all your social media, messaging apps, contact lists and devices.

Be done with dragging out the breakup and being FWB. That way you can move forward in peace and start dating men who want what you want.

[glows]

2 hours ago, JDam said:

Yesterday - Friday evening - after I went silent for two weeks and after this last in person conversation, he sent me a text which goes something like this (translation): Im sorry for not reaching out earlier. I dont want to ghost you or whatever. I did a lot of thinking. I think our relationship is so burdened by our past that meeting up again would be like rubbing salt into old wounds. You think I did you wrong and my feelings are just complicated, as I told you two weeks ago. Im sorry but I think there is probably nothing that can be done about it. 

That’s good that he acknowledged his feelings are “complicated”. Avoid complicated. Make complications close to nil in your life and also strive to be around uncomplicated people with uncomplicated feelings. 

Blocking is the best solution here. I strongly suggest blocking him and not beating yourself up over it or questioning whether it’s the generous thing to do to another person. The one person now to care for the most is you so be generous and kind to yourself and do what you need to do to move on. 

[JDam]

Thank you both! Im really hurting because we were not in touch for like 5 years and during this time I felt different about the relationship, specifically I always remembered the good things and was really nostalgic. I compared the other guys I dated with him and thought he was just so much better. Over these years, there were times I cried because I missed him and remembered the good times. Now I hear from him the relationship is burdened by the past and that Im holding resentment toward him (after being told in August that Im acting like we just met, like we had no past...). Either way, I can do no good. Whatever I do is always wrong. Im just really upset that he really isnt the person I thought he was and that our relationship never meant anything to him  Its just a lot worse than the fact that things did not work out. 

The blocking, which I had not done before, will make it final. Thats why Im so afraid. It cant be outdone. But I have to do it. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by JDam

[pianomanwoman]

What's the question? There's a saying, when you think everyone else is nuts, then it's not you. Why would you want to date a crazymaker? That's what they are. Stay away from nutty people no matter what F4M or however you identity and what genders you love. If this person makes you mad, then don't lose your sense of balance. And if you keep having problems with dating get a therapist and ask what you may be doing and how you can change.

To your friend you are in love with that's "  crazy" ( mental health disorder?) Say, I'm not a doctor but I can't help you I can only give you love. Accept the things you cannot change, Change the things you can and grant me the serenity to know the difference. If you don't bring me peace love and serenity I can't be your domestic partner. Maybe occasionally but not until things improve with me. 

[basil67]

JDam, I was looking at your history and it seems that you're relying on false memories.  Your first post here doesn't have a lot of good to say about him and you were talking about how staying NC is really important.   From then on, all your posts are about him wanting to hang out and have occasional sex, but you wondering if it's a date or he wants to get back together.

I say this in the kindest way:  While he has enjoyed your company and 'sex with the ex', he's never wanted to reconcile with you.  His hang outs were not and will not be dates.   Go back over your old threads and watch the cycle repeating.   He wants casual contact and casual sex....and you think he wants more but it turns out that he doesn't.   How long are you going to stay in this cycle?  

I'm sure your relationship meant something to him when you were together.  That the feelings are no longer there doesn't mean that they were never there.

Edited January 29, 2022 by basil67

[JDam]

I think you are right basil  

I think you are referring to the first post about 6 years ago. Back then yes, I was upset that I broke NC and answered to his messages, cards and letters. I healed after a year of NC and after we met he made me look like a fool that I wanted to see him again. It just hurt me and I did regret breaking the NC.

When he reached out 5 years later I was no longer angry with him, my feelings did change over the years and I mostly had positive memories. Thats why I was happy to see him after such a long time. And it was easy to rekindle the old feelings. I was naive to think he could perhaps want something more. I still had hope because I have/had feelings for him. Then its just tough to think rationally. 

what angers me though is that he does not admit he just used me, wanted causal sex etc. He says he did some thinking but because of some stupid mishap like asking him about him ignoring me he realized he does not want to be with me. He never want to in the first place. 
 

im just upset it got this far that I will have to cut him off completely and for good. The fact that I will never talk to him again is devastating me, despite the pain he caused.

[basil67]

To be fair, he probably doesn't see it as "using you".  Given that you went along with it, he likely thinks it's a mutually acceptable casual arrangement.

I do agree that you need to go NC.  I  saw that he thinks you should be able to be friends, but it's perfectly OK to tell him that you're exes for a reason and that hanging out together is stopping you from moving on.  

[JDam]

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

To be fair, he probably doesn't see it as "using you".  Given that you went along with it, he likely thinks it's a mutually acceptable casual arrangement.

I do agree that you need to go NC.  I  saw that he thinks you should be able to be friends, but it's perfectly OK to tell him that you're exes for a reason and that hanging out together is stopping you from moving on.  

Yeah, he probably did. Even though I would never do this to a person who has told me had feelings for me.

about being friends, I dont know. I think he is somehow angry with me and has definitely muted me on instagram. He said meeting up would be like rubbing salt in woulds. Yet only two weeks ago he said he definitely does not want there to be an “iron wall” between the two of us again. So Im not sure he even wants to be friends.
 

i only replied “ok  be well!” to his last text. I think he expected tension and another argument. I wont text him again with an explanation of the blocking. I hate to do it tough..:(

[stillafool]

43 minutes ago, JDam said:

I'm just upset it got this far that I will have to cut him off completely and for good. The fact that I will never talk to him again is devastating me, despite the pain he caused.

Try not to think of him as using you because I'm sure you wanted and enjoyed the sex with him as much as he did with you.  I'm sorry you're hurt but be glad he finally ended it for good so you can now really block him and move on.  It never works out trying to be friends with an ex you still have feelings for and it makes it uncomfortable for the one whose feelings have now changed.  This is the best for you so you can find someone new.  It's best to leave exes in your past.

[stillafool]

27 minutes ago, JDam said:

I wont text him again with an explanation of the blocking. I hate to do it tough..:(

Why would you need to explain blocking him.  He ended it with you so just block.

[JDam]

3 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Why would you need to explain blocking him.  He ended it with you so just block.

It was a reaction to basil saying that its OK to tell him that hanging out would prevent me from moving on. Not sure if she meant it as an explanation. 
 

I did enjoy the sex, yes, but it wasnt just about sex, but also when he wanted study materials, information etc. I just would not do this to anyone. 

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, JDam said:

but also when he wanted study materials, information etc. I just would not do this to anyone. 

Okay then just look at it as helping and don't help him anymore.  Did you get your materials back from him?

[JDam]

2 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Okay then just look at it as helping and don't help him anymore.  Did you get your materials back from him?

Yes, i did. he consulted the bar exam with me and took the study materials. After he passed he did not let me know. Well so I had to ask him to get my book back. This was during Christmas when we met up and had sex again  

[stillafool]

3 minutes ago, JDam said:

This was during Christmas when we met up and had sex again  

Can I ask why did you keep on having sex with him when you were unsure that he wanted what you were hoping to get from this?