Boyfriend becoming petty and jealous since we started living together

July 11, 2021

17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

How do you set proper boundaries?

You stop living together, messing around with others and get legally married in your church and take vows to each other.

Right now he has zero commitment to you and you apparently have zero commitment to him.

So you are nothing more than roommates with naked cuddling benefits.

Wiseman, I already clearly stated that we are planning to marry, we have just not made it formal yet. We were of the opinion that it would be best to wait until I graduated, but we are still up in the air on that. That is why he has not formally proposed yet. But we have discussed this.

July 11, 2021

7 minutes ago, Janie7 said:

That is honestly how I see it, but I can understand if you're an older man,

@poppyfields is a woman, Janie.

July 11, 2021

Janie, I disagree about it being a generational thing, I felt this same way since I was 18, it's how I was raised, my values.

Also, I am not in my 20s but certainly not "older" by any stretch. Lol

And for the record, I am also attractive and have modeled, quite recently in fact, and understand what you're saying about men's attention.

Again, I have no issue with your behavior other than it's not on par with your boyfriend's/fiance's mindset re how to conduct oneself in a serious committed relationship.

Imo, you would be better suited for a man who is not as traditional and conventional in that regatd, that's all.

Edited July 11, 2021 by poppyfields

July 11, 2021

24 minutes ago, Janie7 said:

Also, to say it is a 'mind f*ck' or that we're being a 'tease' reveals a certain misogynist pov that I think is totally inappropriate.

Truth hurts.

What branch of Christianity is it that condones all the things you say you do:

"cuddling naked" (with both Tony and your FI)
using hands and feet to stroke a man's penis
sitting in the lap of a man who is not your FI
playing tickle games with a man who is not your FI
romping in the pool with a man who is not your FI
flirting with men other than your FI
showing off "legs or my breasts"
willfully establishing sexual tension with men other than your FI

FTR, @poppyfields is anything but misogynist.

Edited July 11, 2021 by introverted1
typo

July 11, 2021

Truth hurts.

What branch of Christianity is it that condones all the things you say you do:

"cuddling naked" (with both Tony and your FI)
using hands and feet to stroke a man's penis

Well, I don't know if stuff like this is "condoned", I never said that, but people are human, so I would say it's hard to say where to draw the line when you're with the person you love but you are not married yet. And like another poster here said, some denominations actually condone sex before marriage. At any rate, it's not proper to question my values on this when church teaching is not that clear other than actual sex and various denominations have widely different interpretations.

sitting in the lap of a man who is not your FI
playing tickle games with a man who is not your FI
romping in the pool with a man who is not your FI
flirting with men other than your FI
showing off "legs or my breasts"

I already covered this in my prior post. My opinion is that it is condoned depending on your intentions. If your intentions are pure and you are just playing and having fun, then there is nothing wrong with it. But if your intentions are to initiate something sexual, then no, this is not proper and would not be condoned.

willfully establishing sexual tension with men other than your FI

This is basically covered by everything I said above. Of course if you are willfully establishing sexual tension with men other than your SO that is not acceptable. But the truth is that when you have the kind of body men die for there will always be sexual tension. Any man who sees you will immediately want to make love to you, so the tension is simply present and imo you can either deal with it in a playful respectful way and help reduce the tension, or you can not give them the time of day and make them feel inadequate.

I think flirting actually reduces any sexual tension. I think what frustrates guys is when a hot girl will not even give them the time of day. By flirting you let them know that you appreciate their affection even tho taking it further is out of the question. You are basically letting them know that if you weren't already with someone they might have a chance, rather than acting indignant about it like they are not good enough for you, or like you find them gross or disgusting.

July 11, 2021

1 hour ago, Janie7 said:

I think flirting actually reduces any sexual tension. By flirting you let them know that you appreciate their affection even tho taking it further is out of the question.

Well, you really are inexperienced about men and relationships.

FYI, same as foreplay. You know, engaging in kissing, touching, grinding… it actually reduces interest in sex because one is just happy to know that the other appreciates their affection even when actual intercourse doesn’t happen.

Edited July 11, 2021 by BaileyB

July 11, 2021

@Janie7 you know how you wiggle in Tony's lap till he gets a boner? That's called a 'lap dance'. It is so arousing that men pay women in the sex industry good money for this kind of attention. The only difference between what you're doing and the sex workers is that you're giving freebies.

How would you feel if your fiance was to have a friend or sex worker at a club wiggle on his lap till he gets a boner?

July 11, 2021

22 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Well, you really are inexperienced about men and relationships.

FYI, same as foreplay. You know, engaging in kissing, touching, grinding… it actually reduces interest in sex because one is just happy to know that the other appreciates their affection even when actual intercourse doesn’t happen.

Indeed. Flirting is verbal foreplay. It's how we signal to someone that we wish to be more than a friend or acquaintance. When someone writes here that they don't know how to demonstrate that they have romantic or sexual interest in someone, the very first thing we ask is "do you flirt with them?"

And for sure, when a guy flirts with me (or me with them) and the flirting is welcome, we both get super hot and horny. It's the whole point of flirting!

July 11, 2021

30 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You know, engaging in kissing, touching, grinding… it actually reduces interest in sex because one is just happy to know that the other appreciates their affection even when actual intercourse doesn’t happen.

I actually read this recently; that for some men, they don't mind waiting for full blown sex (intercourse) as long as the woman demonstrates her attraction through other forms of physical affection.

It's the knowing she is attracted that's important..

It does not reduce their interest in sex, but it reduces their feelings of rejection and their attraction can therefore build.

I also read that the reason why some men refuse to wait weeks or months for sex, is because when a woman does not want or is not ready for sex, they dont feel desired by her, and that in turn causes them to lose their desire.

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger, I have read this in a few reputable sources.

So not faulting Janie so much for cuddling naked with her boyfriend so much as the inappropriate flirting with Tony - tickle and water fights while half naked, back rubs, sitting on his lap, etc.

Knowing full well her boyfriend is uncomfortable with this, it's disrespectful to him and their relationship.

Edited July 11, 2021 by poppyfields

July 11, 2021

I think when one is single, they can flirt, seek attention, validation, in whatever ways they choose,, including how Janie behaves with Tony as long as HE (Tony) does not have a problem with it.

BUT when one is in a serious committed relationship, there are boundaries to be honored, and again respect for your partner and the relationship.

Boundaries that do not include such "flirting" with the opposite sex as described here.

Unless again, you and your partner have agreed that you're both OK with such behaviors.

Which Janie's bf clearly is not.

That is the issue here, imo anyway.

July 11, 2021

16 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger

I’m not going to shoot you.

16 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I also read that the reason why some men refuse to wait weeks or months for sex, is because when a woman does not want or is not ready for sex, they dont feel desired by her, and that in turn causes them to lose their desire.

I believe this and I think the same is true for women. There is this belief that a man should want sex and there are many women in this board who talk about the fact that they don’t feel desired when a man has a low libido. This is frustrating, it takes a toll on one’s self esteem, and I’m quite sure than many give up having lost their desire for their partner when it’s not reciprocated.

July 11, 2021

21 minutes ago, basil67 said:

@Janie7 you know how you wiggle in Tony's lap till he gets a boner? That's called a 'lap dance'. It is so arousing that men pay women in the sex industry good money for this kind of attention. The only difference between what you're doing and the sex workers is that you're giving freebies.

How would you feel if your fiance was to have a friend or sex worker at a club wiggle on his lap till he gets a boner?

Um, sorry but I never said I wiggle in his lap. That is disgusting and I can't believe you would say that. You are insinuating that a sexual act occurred which did not. I only said I sit in his lap sometimes. I never talked about any grinding or anything. I am not a lap dancer. That is really a gross and disgusting thing to say.

The reason Tony gets hard with me sometimes is probably simply because of the nature of the situation, not because of any "wiggling". We are in a hot tub and I'm sitting on him half naked. Any guy in this situation would probably get hard and I think you know that. It is not necessary to bring up a blatant sexual act performed by strippers in order to explain it.

July 11, 2021

11 minutes ago, Janie7 said:

I only said I sit in his lap sometimes.

You argue semantics.

Sitting in the lap of another man when you are in a relationship is VERY INAPPROPRIATE behavior for any woman. No matter her intention.

11 minutes ago, Janie7 said:

The reason Tony gets hard with me sometimes is probably simply because of the nature of the situation. We are in a hot tub and I'm sitting on him half naked. Any guy in this situation would probably get hard and I think you know that.

Indeed, it is a normal response for any young man in this situation. Which is why, it’s totally inappropriate for you to be in this situation.

11 minutes ago, Janie7 said:

It is not necessary to bring up a blatant sexual act performed by strippers in order to explain it.

Well, apparently it is because you don’t seem to understand how inappropriate it is for you to be sitting in the lap of a man while half naked in a hot tub. Surely you can’t be this naive.

Edited July 11, 2021 by BaileyB

July 11, 2021

You have really very little clue about men and relationships, OP.

July 11, 2021

2 hours ago, Janie7 said:

But the truth is that when you have the kind of body men die for there will always be sexual tension. Any man who sees you will immediately want to make love to you, so the tension is simply present and imo you can either deal with it in a playful respectful way and help reduce the tension, or you can not give them the time of day and make them feel inadequate.

Timothy 2:9-10 - likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self control, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness - with good works

July 12, 2021

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

Timothy 2:9-10 - likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self control, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness - with good works

Yes but in Matthew it says that if a man lusts after a woman in his heart he has already committed adultery with her. So I guess it is a question of perspective. You can put it on the women or the men. I say we just all worry about ourselves and not make other people's attire our personal concern.

Also, what is "respectable" is going to be different at different times and in different cultures. As an example, in the Middle East they would interpret this to mean that women should cover their faces in public. So you see how you have to be careful in how you interpret things.

July 12, 2021

7 hours ago, Janie7 said:

Sorry, but this is simply a misconception some have about a christian marriage. You can have a very passionate, loving marriage within the context of God's teachings. My bf and I are very passionate about each other, and once we are married I can assure you there will be lost of passion. Conservative values just means that you wait until you are formally committed to each other before you take that next step. In fact, I think the sex will be better because we waited, imho.

Well, to me intercourse is a lot more intimate than cuddling/touching. And while I think it is still inappropriate (we tried not going there but our passions got the best of us) it is not the same as actually having sex outside of marriage. So yes, because there is no 'penetrative sex' as you put it, I would say it is basically harmless because there is not a breaking of your vows. And that is important to some of us.

IMHO, flirting is not harmful if you have no intention whatever of having sex. But if you are seriously considering having sex with them, then yes I think that is harmful and could even be considered 'cheating'. Otherwise you are just having fun. People of the opposite sex are attracted to each other all the time, even tho they are in relationships, this is totally normal. And sometimes I think flirting can be a good way to relieve some of the underlying sexual tension. I look at it as a sort of playful way to acknowledge those inappropriate feelings while not really succumbing to them.

And that is how I know it is for me and Tony, so yes, I think it is harmless. Our flirting is definitely NOT going to led to any sex, so I see no 'harm' here. Our flirting isn't even planned, it just comes naturally, because we are so close and feel so comfortable with each other, and I think the flirting is just a natural response to the underlying sexual tension. When we flirt, we are really just acknowledging those feelings in a healthy and playful way, knowing we would never act on them.

I really think flirting is a healthy way to maintain the platonic nature of an opposite-sex friendship. You can reaffirm the platonic nature of your relationship while also expressing any underlying feelings of intimacy (which let's be honest all opposite-sex friendships have), and while also being true to your SO. Otherwise you either couldn't be friends with them at all, or else you would have to be 'nice' and let them have sex with you. And in my opinion both of these options are simply unacceptable. They don't reflect my basic values. I believe in a monogamous relationship within the boundaries of a committed marriage, but I also believe friends are forever.

"Sorry, but this is simply a misconception some have about a christian marriage."

If you read a bit more carefully you will find that I was not talking about christian marriages at all, but about a conservative worldview about couple relationships that is there all around us, regardless and totally independent of each religious faiths, each one and also between agnostics, atheists abd whatever you may name.

When same happens to a lot and even most people so if ther are christian or not, you may safely suspect that while explanations may vary, the real causes are common to them all.

So you can freely dissagree with me but, please, don´t attribute to me what I do not say and neither find too relevant

"You can have a very passionate, loving marriage within the context of God's teachings"

Of course you can! And please note that there are also very passionate, loving marriage within the context of other christian denominations, non christian faiths, agnostics and atheists.

And also of course there are marriages without passion in all christian denominations, non christian faiths, agnostics and atheists.

Sooooooo............it´s about their de facto conception of the human relationship whatever their faiths are. And that is what this is about.

"Conservative values just means that you wait until you are formally committed to each other before you take that next step."

Oh I really get that. And believe me I fully respect what others think and do, specially when about themselves.

I have a different take on the same. A one where deep commitment is the soul of a relationshio and may (or not) have a formal (that is, about the form) expression. If there is mutual loyalty it don´t seems to factually deppend on formalities and whaen there is not, no vows prevent the opposite. But that´s me, a personal view.

"Well, to me intercourse is a lot more intimate than cuddling/touching. And while I think it is still inappropriate (we tried not going there but our passions got the best of us) it is not the same as actually having sex outside of marriage. So yes, because there is no 'penetrative sex' as you put it, I would say it is basically harmless because there is not a breaking of your vows. And that is important to some of us."

It seems that, because English is not my first language, we go on having a diferent focus. But I think it´s for other deepr reasons.

Yes, intercourse is (just sometimes) a more intimate expression than (also sometimes) other intimacies.

But again, I´m not talking at all of your agreements with your own BF. Regardless of my no needed here oppinion on them I find them the solely bussines of you two.

What I tryed to say was that, as in my view, intercourse is not what draws "the line" (as neither the "formal" does about commitment) whatever seductive / teasing / flirting thing with other(s) when you are in a commited (formal on not) relationship is infidelity (and not merely inaproppiate).

So, the "line" do not deppend on the intentions of "more" or the lack of them.

Given that I dissagree with

"And that is how I know it is for me and Tony, so yes, I think it is harmless. Our flirting is definitely NOT going to led to any sex, so I see no 'harm' here. Our flirting isn't even planned, it just comes naturally, because we are so close and feel so comfortable with each other, and I think the flirting is just a natural response to the underlying sexual tension. When we flirt, we are really just acknowledging those feelings in a healthy and playful way, knowing we would never act on them. "

"I really think flirting is a healthy way to maintain the platonic nature of an opposite-sex friendship. You can reaffirm the platonic nature of your relationship while also expressing any underlying feelings of intimacy (which let's be honest all opposite-sex friendships have), and while also being true to your SO. Otherwise you either couldn't be friends with them at all, or else you would have to be 'nice' and let them have sex with you. And in my opinion both of these options are simply unacceptable. They don't reflect my basic values. I believe in a monogamous relationship within the boundaries of a committed marriage, but I also believe friends are forever."

As the friendship would not be platonic and the relationship with your SO would neither be monogamous.

I also believe in deep friendship. Most of my loved friends, men and women are in my life since decades.

We seem to have, anyhow, definitions as different for friendship (and the related behaviour) as for couples.

And that is FINE.

Even so I´m not sooooooooo sure that, beyond words and factually, your BF share your views, at least about Tony.

Best wishes to both, (sorry but) not extended to the three of you.

July 12, 2021

Girl, please. Everything you are doing is fine for a single woman. But you are an engaged woman, and it is totally inappropriate. Period. Christian or not. You are totally disrespecting your fiance.

July 12, 2021

53 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I think when one is single, they can flirt, seek attention, validation, in whatever ways they choose,, including how Janie behaves with Tony as long as HE (Tony) does not have a problem with it.

BUT when one is in a serious committed relationship, there are boundaries to be honored, and again respect for your partner and the relationship.

Boundaries that do not include such "flirting" with the opposite sex as described here.

Unless again, you and your partner have agreed that you're both OK with such behaviors.

Which Janie's bf clearly is not.

That is the issue here, imo anyway.

Standing applauses!

July 12, 2021

This is a disaster. Few men would put up with this. Your fiance must be a complete tool to still be hanging in there.

July 12, 2021

57 minutes ago, Janie7 said:

Um, sorry but I never said I wiggle in his lap. That is disgusting and I can't believe you would say that. You are insinuating that a sexual act occurred which did not. I only said I sit in his lap sometimes. I never talked about any grinding or anything. I am not a lap dancer. That is really a gross and disgusting thing to say.

The reason Tony gets hard with me sometimes is probably simply because of the nature of the situation, not because of any "wiggling". We are in a hot tub and I'm sitting on him half naked. Any guy in this situation would probably get hard and I think you know that. It is not necessary to bring up a blatant sexual act performed by strippers in order to explain it.

You said: That is why I would never do something like tickle, wrestle, sit in their lap, with just about any guy, not even my friends. I've tried it and they will inevitably end up doing something inappropriate. I don't even feel comfortable wearing a cheeky swimsuit around them because of all the crude comments.

Then immediately after, you said But with Tony I feel completely comfortable doing all of those things, This means that you don't do these things with others but you do with Tony.

Edited July 12, 2021 by basil67

July 12, 2021

50 minutes ago, Janie7 said:

The reason Tony gets hard with me sometimes is probably simply because of the nature of the situation, not because of any "wiggling". We are in a hot tub and I'm sitting on him half naked. Any guy in this situation would probably get hard and I think you know that.

And as it not deppend on no one´s intentions and meanings deppend on natural facts, that is (in my view) something to be strictly excluded in friendship behaviors when you are in a relationship with another to whom shoud be reserved,

Else, the relationship is, regardless the "intentions" no more monogamous.

July 12, 2021

14 minutes ago, Crazelnut said:

Girl, please. Everything you are doing is fine for a single woman. But you are an engaged woman, and it is totally inappropriate. Period. Christian or not. You are totally disrespecting your fiance.

True!

July 12, 2021

It seems to be a lost cause.

July 12, 2021

Not having complete sex with her BF because they are not "formally" married, while (being in said relationship) sitting on Tony´s bonner because it´s not "complete" sex and so "harmless" and "friendly" seem both consistent with the same, her own personal worldview.

I doubt that same facts (taken from the described behaviours) and her interpretation of them are suported by her own church (or almost any other one, so conservative as liberal) if known by other members. Neither by ones in other faiths, agnostics and atheists.

I also suspect that if the "sitting" thing and it´s "situation" were enough known in such detail by her BF he would neither agree with them. Not with the behaviour and neither with her justification of it.

So, at least in my mind, I would drop some adjectives qualifitying her BF attitude, like "petty" and "jealous".

And would, if it were in my capacity to do it, suggest him to get enough information of what is happening under his nose and to think carefully if he is in a compatible relationship with her.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Uruktopi

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