do they actually leave?

[pepperbird2]

why wouldn't you call his wife?

IME, people who are in affairs use the "I don't want to hurt the BS so I won't make the call" . I'm never sure if that's because they don't want to have to own up to being the ow/om or because they are too scared that their AP will be angry at them. It's got nothing to do with not wanting to hurt the BS ( that ship sailed long ago). It always seems to boil down to not wanting to rock the boat.
Why? Surely if the marriage is awful or even just not a good fit,the WS would be pleased to find a way out, and a call from  the ow/om may provide just that.

Edited July 14, 2021 by pepperbird2

[Myabee]

Just now, pepperbird2 said:

why wouldn't you call his wife?

IME, people who are in affairs use the "I don't want to hurt the BS" . I'm never sure if that's because they don't want to have to own up to being the ow/om or because they are too scared that their AP will be angry at them. It's got nothing to do with not wanting to hurt the BS ( that ship sailed long ago). It always seems to boil down to not wanting to rock the boat.
Why? Surely if the marriage is awful or even just not a good fit,the WS would be pleased to find a way out, and a call from  the ow/om may provide just that.

No way! He needs to man up and speak to her!!! I am not doing that. 

[Bittersweetie]

Myabee, I think pepperbird is on to something in that you are projecting a lot of what you want and need right now onto him. I did that to my MM too...I unintentionally made him into what I wanted and needed at the time of the affair. I just thought we had so much in common and a true connection. But the reality was that I was going through a rough time in my life and instead of using healthy coping skills I engaged in fantasies to escape my realities.

How about this for a suggestion on what to do: you should do NC again, and set a time table for it. Maybe six months. Tell MM, I need space for this time, you do what you need to do. This time will be for you to clear your head and grow stronger. And then if you still feel the same way in six months, you can reach out and see what progress he has made. If there's progress, you can decide how to move forward. If not, you have your answer. I feel if you are as close friends as you say, he will understand and respect your request. It's only six months, why not try it?

[pepperbird2]

Just now, Myabee said:

No way! He needs to man up and speak to her!!! I am not doing that. 

so you'll insert yourself into her life and hope for the demise of her marriage--which is exactly what you are doing, helping to cause her pain, and the you hide behind the "it's his wife, not mine-I owe her nothing"?
I'm not getting that vibe off you. It seems to me that deep down this doesn't sit right with you.

[pepperbird2]

1 minute ago, Bittersweetie said:

Myabee, I think pepperbird is on to something in that you are projecting a lot of what you want and need right now onto him. I did that to my MM too...I unintentionally made him into what I wanted and needed at the time of the affair. I just thought we had so much in common and a true connection. But the reality was that I was going through a rough time in my life and instead of using healthy coping skills I engaged in fantasies to escape my realities.

How about this for a suggestion on what to do: you should do NC again, and set a time table for it. Maybe six months. Tell MM, I need space for this time, you do what you need to do. This time will be for you to clear your head and grow stronger. And then if you still feel the same way in six months, you can reach out and see what progress he has made. If there's progress, you can decide how to move forward. If not, you have your answer. I feel if you are as close friends as you say, he will understand and respect your request. It's only six months, why not try it?

Op,

if he cares about you, he will want you to feel happy and content. he will respect your wishes if you say you need that space and time.

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, Myabee said:

No way! He needs to man up and speak to her!!! I am not doing that. 

Agree. Talk as friends, pull back, don't meet, etc. but don't go "Fatal Attraction" on him with a maneuver like that.

[Myabee]

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree. Talk as friends, pull back, don't meet, etc. but don't go "Fatal Attraction" on him with a maneuver like that.

Yes wise! Yes.

[Myabee]

19 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

Op,

if he cares about you, he will want you to feel happy and content. he will respect your wishes if you say you need that space and time.

He has sooo done this from the start. I know it does not appear that way in my typing.

[Myabee]

22 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

so you'll insert yourself into her life and hope for the demise of her marriage--which is exactly what you are doing, helping to cause her pain, and the you hide behind the "it's his wife, not mine-I owe her nothing"?
I'm not getting that vibe off you. It seems to me that deep down this doesn't sit right with you.

None of it sits right with me at all. None of it. 

[Myabee]

7 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

I hate being so harsh and direct. It took my friends yelling at me constantly and some harsh words from forums to make me wake up. 

It would take a few days of confusion after speaking to my xH. I wanted to believe his words. So I understand why you ate holding onto those things. The other thing is... you would not say something if you didn't feel it, so you have trouble understanding why someone would say that if they truly didn't mean it. Maybe he does love you, maybe he is in love with you. But.... what is he willing to do about it? Does that truly change anything if he is unwilling to divorce and move to you? 

I agree that it's about what he is willing to do about it. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Myabee said:

Yes! Safe, comfortable, funny, smart, same interests and future goals. Work through conflict well together always thinking similar.

None of this matters if he is married to another woman. 

1 hour ago, Myabee said:

He is unhappy with himself and spouse he admits that. He needs to make his changes take action. 

Kindly, there are many people in relationships who are unhappy but they don’t take action. It takes commitment to divorce - one must be prepared to lose wealth, a home, comfort, companionship, security, shared history… the list goes on an on. One must be VERY unhappy to decide to divorce. 

It’s much easier to respond to that Facebook post… share some nice memories with an old friend who says that she “gets” you, tells you that you are wonderful, and brings a little something new to your life - excitement, joy. 

Does that mean that he needs to make changes? Maybe not, because now… he can keep the comforts of marriage and also enjoy the adoration of his affair partner. YOU make staying in his marriage easier. Although, he likely never had any intention to leave. He may be unhappy with his spouse or he may not, but until he files for divorce he is just another married man bellyaching to another woman looking for her sympathy and her affection. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by BaileyB

[Myabee]

27 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

None of this matters if he is married to another woman. 

Kindly, there are many people in relationships who are unhappy but they don’t take action. It takes commitment to divorce - one must be prepared to lose wealth, a home, comfort, companionship, security, shared history… the list goes on an on. One must be VERY unhappy to decide to divorce. 

It’s much easier to respond to that Facebook post… share some nice memories with an old friend who says that she “gets” you, tells you that you are wonderful, and brings a little something new to your life - excitement, joy. 

Does that mean that he needs to make changes? Maybe not, because now… he can keep the comforts of marriage and also enjoy the adoration of his affair partner. YOU make staying in his marriage easier. Although, he likely never had any intention to leave. He may be unhappy with his spouse or he may not, but until he files for divorce he is just another married man bellyaching to another woman looking for her sympathy and her affection. 

Believe it or not we have discussed all of this. 

[mark clemson]

11 hours ago, Myabee said:

 Go ahead have at me. But please can you use a bit of kindness? I'm only human and this is truly killing me.

You bashed this guy rather severely in other threads, but now have gone back? It seems you don't know your own mind.

Is he really all that bad, or was the bashing some sort of effort to help you stay away by demonizing him? Perhaps you are unconsciously picking up some of the simultaneously sanctimonious and severely emotionally damaged language and attitudes that lurk in some corners of the internet? You realize that LOTS of people have affairs at one point or other in their lives, no? It's certainly unethical. It's also a bit like having brown eyes or something in terms of how common it is. Welcome to humanity.

Or are you the type that doesn't end things smoothly (even for just an online flirtation)? Or do your thoughts simply stray from one extreme to the other naturally?

(All) the above are rhetorical questions. The solution, however, is quite simple: Stop.

Stop trying to do anything with him. Stop judging, stop communication, stop hoping. Stop looking for anything from anyone romantically until your own head is clear and rational. If that's not forthcoming, seek therapy.

It's counter-intuitive in some ways, but it's the easy course. Look up wu-wei on the internet (I'm completely serious about that BTW) and apply it. This is the perfect situation for it (for you),  since you aren't ok with moving forward WITH an affair but also can't seem to give this guy up.

Commit to doing nothing but getting on with your life in other ways until your head can clear. Simplicity is your friend.

Edited July 14, 2021 by mark clemson

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Myabee said:

No way! He needs to man up and speak to her!!! I am not doing that. 

To be fair, it's not your place to say what he needs to do.  All you do is look after what you need for yourself.

[Myabee]

19 minutes ago, basil67 said:

To be fair, it's not your place to say what he needs to do.  All you do is look after what you need for yourself.

Of course. I was just saying that really thats not my place. I'm sure he will do something as he is miserable. 

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, Myabee said:

Of course. I was just saying that really thats not my place. I'm sure he will do something as he is miserable. 

Or maybe he's not miserable enough to do something about it

[BaileyB]

16 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Or maybe he's not miserable enough to do something about it

Or maybe, he is happy with the situation as it is now.

The only thing you can say for certain is that he is married, he has not filed for divorce. I would suggest that you make your own plans accordingly. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by BaileyB

[Myabee]

16 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Or maybe he's not miserable enough to do something about it

You know it started out that way. Then after that recent trip he was like I can't do this anymore with her. 

[BaileyB]

Just now, Myabee said:

You know it started out that way. Then after that recent trip he was like I can't do this anymore with her. 

Has he filed for divorce?

Talk is cheap. Words are easily said. Rather meaningless, really. 

If there is a discrepancy between words and actions, pay attention to the actions. He has not filed for divorce. Full stop. 

[Myabee]

4 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Or maybe, he is happy with the situation as it is now.

The only thing you can say for certain is that he is married, he has not filed for divorce. I would suggest that you make your own plans accordingly. 

I'm not on hold for him. I do love him though. He is not happy with this situation as is. He knows its not fair to her or me. Trust me he is a mess.  

[Myabee]

29 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Has he filed for divorce?

Talk is cheap. Words are easily said. Rather meaningless, really. 

If there is a discrepancy between words and actions, pay attention to the actions. He has not filed for divorce. Full stop. 

Of course actions speak louder then words! I am not placing heartless hope on him leaving. Going to have to stick this back to friends whatever that might look like for now. If he leaves he leaves. If not then I am not going to fall to pieces. Got that? 

[Poppy47]

1 hour ago, Myabee said:

Of course actions speak louder then words! I am not placing heartless hope on him leaving. Going to have to stick this back to friends whatever that might look like for now. If he leaves he leaves. If not then I am not going to fall to pieces. Got that? 

YOu cannot just go back to friends. 

[Myabee]

13 minutes ago, Poppy47 said:

YOu cannot just go back to friends. 

i figured as such. So I guess I just don't know.. I really don't know.

[Maylady]

5 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

why wouldn't you call his wife?

IME, people who are in affairs use the "I don't want to hurt the BS so I won't make the call" . I'm never sure if that's because they don't want to have to own up to being the ow/om or because they are too scared that their AP will be angry at them. It's got nothing to do with not wanting to hurt the BS ( that ship sailed long ago). It always seems to boil down to not wanting to rock the boat.
Why? Surely if the marriage is awful or even just not a good fit,the WS would be pleased to find a way out, and a call from  the ow/om may provide just that.

 

5 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

why wouldn't you call his wife?

IME, people who are in affairs use the "I don't want to hurt the BS so I won't make the call" . I'm never sure if that's because they don't want to have to own up to being the ow/om or because they are too scared that their AP will be angry at them. It's got nothing to do with not wanting to hurt the BS ( that ship sailed long ago). It always seems to boil down to not wanting to rock the boat.
Why? Surely if the marriage is awful or even just not a good fit,the WS would be pleased to find a way out, and a call from  the ow/om may provide just that.

But as soon as he dumps her, that will be when she'll want to contact the wife..  textbook

[Myabee]

3 minutes ago, Maylady said:

 

But as soon as he dumps her, that will be when she'll want to contact the wife..  textbook

Excuse me! No thank you. I am not ever contacting his wife. Not my place at all. I am not placing my happiness today tomorrow or ever on him. I do not care if he ends up staying which will most likely be the case.  Right now we are leaving it as friends as best possible. Not sure that will work but I'm not working in reverse any further nor doing a fast forward. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Myabee