do they actually leave?

[Myabee]

29 minutes ago, Pumpernickel said:

Meh - indifference rules, IMO. No need to break NC for anything. The longer the head is out, the better. Leave it out. Don’t put it back in. For what? You already know everything you need to know. You’re not learning anything new. It’s just a massive time waster. 

A 5 minute text is not a significant time waster. That gave me even more clarity that moving out of this was in-fact the correct thing to do. 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Myabee said:

I think sometimes breaking NC can be beneficial especially if your heart and head are out of the affair.  

But yours isn't or you wouldn't have unblocked.  You would be indifferent and wouldn't even be thinking about him.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Myabee said:

A 5 minute text is not a significant time waster. That gave me even more clarity that moving out of this was in-fact the correct thing to do. 

So what did he say?

[Myabee]

19 hours ago, elaine567 said:

So what did he say?

He said all the same repetitive junk that I have heard over and over for the past 16 months. He also mentioned that he has to travel this Tuesday and Wed and it would be a great time for factime... Umm NO! THAT is not happening I’m not a sex toy.... 

[Myabee]

20 hours ago, stillafool said:

But yours isn't or you wouldn't have unblocked.  You would be indifferent and wouldn't even be thinking about him.

Not sure I’m 100% indifferent yet.... But I am much closer then I was a month ago.

[Myabee]

Unblocking was probably not good. Sucked back into the vortex again. Why... why am I doing this? He is away on business which is very rare... and just sent the kind of selfie that made me go all google eyes... wearing a shirt he gave me a long hug in and let me un button. Oh I wish deep down I did not love him. Truth is I do. And look at what I love? I'm so messed up with this!!

Edited October 20, 2021 by Myabee

[Myabee]

***UPDATE *** if any one cares. So you all know I came here in July a few months back. I proposed the question "Do MM ever leave"? I have received plenty of advice and feedback mostly all very helpful. Those who have read my thread have seen me go back and forth like a person on a tilt a whirl. MM has no kids... claims no sex life or much of a marriage yet has the financial security he needs. He claims to be madly in love with me, yet he answers "maybe he will leave on day, maybe he won't". So... blocked a couple times had a real good NC stretch only to reply to his message. Started up again briefly and final straw was last night with more lies and bogus talk just to keep me as a little toy to play with! DONE.... one minute he is madly in love with me, then the next he can't even answer as to if I'm the love of his life! MM lie!!!!   

[stillafool]

Rinse and Repeat is the cycle you're in.

[Myabee]

4 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Rinse and Repeat is the cycle you're in.

Yes spin cycle. This is a game... 

[czanclus]

1 hour ago, Myabee said:

MM lie!!!! 

Indeed they do. I believe I read all 46 pages of this discussion that started in the heat of the summer. I wish you strength and unwavering belief in your inherent good value, without ever needing validation form this man or any other. Own your own missteps, but acknowledge too that these things (flattery and sweet talk and love bombing) can really mess with your head. I say this as someone with very peripheral if any (and only recent) experience in this repulsive game. I've been debating with self if I should start my own thread on the subject concerning my personal situation. Lessons from this subforum should be taken seriously. It can happen to the best of us.

My gripe is more with how do (still) married men select which women to (point-blank?) target for these 'side-kick' propositions, and is there anything a woman can do to dissuade even the thought of such advance... Not to sound like, ~god~ forbid, I'm victim blaming (though I struggle even in middle age with the notion having earlier experiences of harassment) - but is there any rationale behind their behavior? Are unmarried, non-wealthy women with child(ren) the most favored targets? Anyway, I'll take this to a separate podium.

Stay strong. Love yourself.

[Myabee]

6 minutes ago, czanclus said:

Indeed they do. I believe I read all 46 pages of this discussion that started in the heat of the summer. I wish you strength and unwavering belief in your inherent good value, without ever needing validation form this man or any other. Own your own missteps, but acknowledge too that these things (flattery and sweet talk and love bombing) can really mess with your head. I say this as someone with very peripheral if any (and only recent) experience in this repulsive game. I've been debating with self if I should start my own thread on the subject concerning my personal situation. Lessons from this subforum should be taken seriously. It can happen to the best of us.

My gripe is more with how do (still) married men select which women to (point-blank?) target for these 'side-kick' propositions, and is there anything a woman can do to dissuade even the thought of such advance... Not to sound like, ~god~ forbid, I'm victim blaming (though I struggle even in middle age with the notion having earlier experiences of harassment) - but is there any rationale behind their behavior? Are unmarried, non-wealthy women with child(ren) the most favored targets? Anyway, I'll take this to a separate podium.

Stay strong. Love yourself.

Wow! Thank you for taking the time to read through all of this. That is so caring and I appreciate your kind words, support and view. Might I add, you're  well written and do propose a valid question. Again Thank you. 

[pepperbird2]

On 10/21/2021 at 4:04 PM, czanclus said:

Indeed they do. I believe I read all 46 pages of this discussion that started in the heat of the summer. I wish you strength and unwavering belief in your inherent good value, without ever needing validation form this man or any other. Own your own missteps, but acknowledge too that these things (flattery and sweet talk and love bombing) can really mess with your head. I say this as someone with very peripheral if any (and only recent) experience in this repulsive game. I've been debating with self if I should start my own thread on the subject concerning my personal situation. Lessons from this subforum should be taken seriously. It can happen to the best of us.

My gripe is more with how do (still) married men select which women to (point-blank?) target for these 'side-kick' propositions, and is there anything a woman can do to dissuade even the thought of such advance... Not to sound like, ~god~ forbid, I'm victim blaming (though I struggle even in middle age with the notion having earlier experiences of harassment) - but is there any rationale behind their behavior? Are unmarried, non-wealthy women with child(ren) the most favored targets? Anyway, I'll take this to a separate podium.

Stay strong. Love yourself.

The one way women can stop attracting married men is to stop viewing themselves as victims. 'm not trying to be mean, but victim hood implies the person has no control over the situation, and that takes away any power thy have had.

Women ( and men) who knowingly get into affairs are not victims. They go in eyes wide open. They freely chose to get involved with married person, but the good thing about that is they can also choose to get out. Painful as they may be to make, they have choices, and that is a wonderful thing.

[stillafool]

35 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

The one way women can stop attracting married men is to stop viewing themselves as victims. 'm not trying to be mean, but victim hood implies the person has no control over the situation, and that takes away any power thy have had.
 

I don't think it's that they are attracking married men because most women have been hit on by MM.  They will try anyone they are attracted to; it's just that some women don't care because they want the man married or not, so they get involved.  Definitely not a victim unless she had no idea he was married.

[elaine567]

IME it is not difficult to attract a married man, and it is not difficult to resist one either.
BUT  that is easy to say when I have never been in a position where a MM was my only good option, or he was my HS sweetheart or the love of my life... or I was starved of affection in a "loveless" marriage... etc.

[stillafool]

45 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

IME it is not difficult to attract a married man, and it is not difficult to resist one either.
BUT  that is easy to say when I have never been in a position where a MM was my only good option, or he was my HS sweetheart or the love of my life... or I was starved of affection in a "loveless" marriage... etc.

Yeah me either Elaine.

[Pumpernickel]

On 10/21/2021 at 3:04 PM, czanclus said:

My gripe is more with how do (still) married men select which women to (point-blank?) target for these 'side-kick' propositions,

I don’t necessarily think they “select” a potential affair partner by sensibly checking box a,b,c ….. I think it’s an attraction thing more than anything ……. they pursue what/whom they’re attracted to, like they would if they were single. The only difference is that some don’t pursue at all, because they’re married & because they don’t want to jeopardize their marriage. And because they think it would be wrong.

May I also add that there’s a significant number of single females out there who prefer men who already are in a committed relationship. It means less emotional involvement, more freedom, less time involved, less “care” etc. Some, even many women who are independent, self-sufficient, established and who know what a full-time R looks like, or a marriage (eg after getting divorced themselves), will appreciate a part-time relationship very much. I don’t think affairs necessarily victimize any of the involved parties, neither the MM, nor the (single) AP. (If anything, it will victimize the spouse who’s usually not clued in)

[stillafool]

On 10/21/2021 at 3:04 PM, czanclus said:

My gripe is more with how do (still) married men select which women to (point-blank?) target for these 'side-kick' propositions, and is there anything a woman can do to dissuade even the thought of such advance... Not to sound like, ~god~ forbid, I'm victim blaming (though I struggle even in middle age with the notion having earlier experiences of harassment) - but is there any rationale behind their behavior? Are unmarried, non-wealthy women with child(ren) the most favored targets? Anyway, I'll take this to a separate podium.

I agree with Pumpernickel that the majority just choose a woman they find attractive, just like when they are single.  I'm sure they hit on many women before getting a taker.  Most eligble women who have options would rarely if ever date a MM because they know it's a dead end street and they want to marry one day.  There's a notion that most single mothers don't get eligible men but need sex and single as well as MM will try them.

[czanclus]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:58 AM, pepperbird2 said:

The one way women can stop attracting married men is to stop viewing themselves as victims. 'm not trying to be mean, but victim hood implies the person has no control over the situation, and that takes away any power thy have had.

Women ( and men) who knowingly get into affairs are not victims. They go in eyes wide open. They freely chose to get involved with married person, but the good thing about that is they can also choose to get out. Painful as they may be to make, they have choices, and that is a wonderful thing.

I was not going to speak about women who are already in affairs, though I have the capacity, even if no first-hand experience, and even if yes direct experience as an adolescent with a cheating dad and an obviously deeply hurt mom, to feel sorry for the deceitful ways by which a married man seduced the other woman and left her hurt as well. She is by far not wholly innocent in the story, and would be wise to put an end to the nonsense pronto. But her pain is real, and her belief that the marriage was over prior to her even entering the triangle is to a great extent perpetuated by the man who wants the best of both worlds.

[czanclus]

23 hours ago, Pumpernickel said:

I don’t necessarily think they “select” a potential affair partner by sensibly checking box a,b,c ….. I think it’s an attraction thing more than anything ……. they pursue what/whom they’re attracted to, like they would if they were single. The only difference is that some don’t pursue at all, because they’re married & because they don’t want to jeopardize their marriage. And because they think it would be wrong.

Actually, the relevant difference (to me) was whether if I was wearing a wedding ring and/or had a picture of a husband on my hypothetical office desk, or my online social media profile indicated I was married, would I still be the point-blank target of married men. Likewise for a general apparently at least non-married seeming woman. Furthermore, if I was not married (though at 40+, according to society, what are you even doing with your life if not in a legally recognized heterosexual union making a man happy, some wicked witchcraft or similar...), but single with evident markers of wealth, like expensive trips I take and post to sm every six odd weeks, impromptu horseback riding lessons, my newly decorated lake house, and the latest from Salvatore Ferragamo in attire, would these married men still see me as being amenable to their advances for lack of 'better' options... 

Likely the answers to either are foregone conclusions, and why am I even taking up space on another poster's topic to muse on this... It is disheartening, to put it most euphemistically, to experience these advances provoked by none other than sheer silence, but it is just as well to be accepted, as just another collateral in having 'lost out on life' and continuing it as an unmarried woman of limited means. Oh, well...

[Pumpernickel]

35 minutes ago, czanclus said:

Actually, the relevant difference (to me) was whether if I was wearing a wedding ring and/or had a picture of a husband on my hypothetical office desk, or my online social media profile indicated I was married, would I still be the point-blank target of married men.

 

35 minutes ago, czanclus said:

It is disheartening, to put it most euphemistically, to experience these advances provoked by none other than sheer silence, but it is just as well to be accepted, as just another collateral in having 'lost out on life' and continuing it as an unmarried woman of limited means.

So are you complaining about married men hitting on you, while single men are not? If you are a single woman in her 40s, yes, men will hit on you.
If the men who are hitting on you are married, it is most probably because of who they are and what they want – and not so much what your marital status is at the moment. 

Single guys, however, who are looking for a relationship, will probably pay attention to a prospect's marital status some more, and again – if they are just looking for a fling on the side as opposed to a committment, then they won't care. 

[czanclus]

3 hours ago, Pumpernickel said:

 

So are you complaining about married men hitting on you, while single men are not? If you are a single woman in her 40s, yes, men will hit on you.
If the men who are hitting on you are married, it is most probably because of who they are and what they want – and not so much what your marital status is at the moment. 

Single guys, however, who are looking for a relationship, will probably pay attention to a prospect's marital status some more, and again – if they are just looking for a fling on the side as opposed to a committment, then they won't care. 

Uh... is that what I was doing? Hmm, not only do I manage to 'enable' married men to ask me out provoked by nothing, I also manage to convince LS readers I'm complaining that single men are allegedly not noticing me... There isn't an appreciable plurality of either to be sure, but yeah, I can bet money it is more for their self-restraint than for lack of attraction. I still question if marital status would be as non-negligent a barrier as you seem to imply. My perception could be off, maybe I should get a ring and see how things change.

(my 100th post, woo hoo)

Edited October 25, 2021 by czanclus

[Myabee]

Well now I've done it! Had a few to many spirits and facetimed MM when wife was home.🤦‍♀️ Idk what I was thinking!!!!!

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, Myabee said:

Well now I've done it! Had a few to many spirits and facetimed MM when wife was home.🤦‍♀️ Idk what I was thinking!!!!!

Hopefully next time you’re tempted to reach out, you’ll remember how you feel right now and resist. It’s ok to make a mistake, pick yourself up and start NC again. 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Myabee said:

Well now I've done it! Had a few to many spirits and facetimed MM when wife was home.🤦‍♀️ Idk what I was thinking!!!!!

Again, rinse and repeat.

[Myabee]

42 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Again, rinse and repeat.

Literally am a freaking washing machine.😫 I have been doing well as distancing and so much then I have a sippy, sippy of happy juicy and that new adele song then ring a ling a dingy😩😂