8 Years Together - Facing Some Major Decisions, Perspective Appreciated!

[lofi_tokyo]

The Advice I Need / TLDR

I am contemplating a break up. I have things I think I can only work on and be honest with myself about on my own - basically identifying what I need and want in life. He has some deeply rooted fear of... I don't really know. Being left? Being misunderstood? Being wrong? He has anger issues for sure.

Has anyone been in this scenario? What did they do? How did it turn out? Appreciating any perspective on this.

Background

As the title says, we've been together for 8 years. He's amazing in a lot of ways. I think for the most part - our relationship is fun, easy going, and we're very comfortable together. We can kind of just coast along. That in and of itself introduces part of the challenge - we avoid hard topics, so of course, things feel easy.

We met in our mid-twenties, so coasting was fine for us both. Neither of us had a timeline on marriage or kids, but as I get older, I'm starting to think about this stuff a lot. So I've been talking a lot to friends and learning about how to have these sorts of conversations - casually, intentionally, all sorts of angles.

The Challenge

I think my boyfriend just straight up has low self-esteem... at least when it comes to relationships. He has said as much on occasion over the years. This leads to out of control scenarios (him raising his voice, making threatening gestures [shaking fists, slamming counters], storming out of the room) that have ultimately brought me to a place where I feel like I can't have tough conversations with him or be vulnerable... I just fear the escalation. These events rarely occur - because I generally don't have things to bring up. But when I do, this consistently happens. 

The Trigger for Posting

The most recent event occurred this weekend - after 3 days of travelling with friends, I was feeling a bit on edge and so I told him I wanted to share why, but was scared of a confrontation. I then shared that I had felt neglected this weekend because of a handful of occasions I shared where I felt his actions ignored my needs. Small actions, nothing to remember a long time or hold onto - like me asking him to boil some water for us (as I was preparing tea for myself) and him saying he didn't need any hot water so no need to boil water. I just wanted to share my feelings.

This exploded into him telling me I was a) gaslighting him (because I acted unphased by his actions in front of friends, and brought up my feelings in private), and b) 'absurd'. I teared up because I just wanted a bit of awknowledgement. He got angry that I was crying. Chided me for trying to warp reality and manipulate him. This made me more sad, the cycle continued. We put it behind us and hung out with our friends. Later, on the drive home (in private) I tried to bring up that I thought our communication needed work. That it's OK to have different perspectives on things, and that talking through talking things in a caring way where we respect eachother as partners, we can reconcile our different perspectives and build intimacy. I noted we're getting older, and that we have bigger things to talk about then the small things I had tried to point out that day. Marriage. Kids. But that we need to build a safe space to have hard conversations first. I mentioned that after many years of this, I was worrying about if things would ever get better / if our relationship was reaching a major fork.

He started yelling (very loudly) and telling me to stop the car, he was going to walk home (a 3 hr drive) and that he wanted to kill himself. I didn't pull over... I didn't think it was safe. Eventually he calmed down and by the time we got home he apologized.

I now find myself asking - where do I go from here? I'm at a stage in my life where I'm ready for marriage. But I can't see myself marrying someone who yells at me or can't take a tiny bit of an emotional share. He wants to change, but we're at year 8, and this behaviour never changes. I actually think this was the worst case yet.

Edited July 7, 2021 by tokyovogue

[glows]

Dump him and move on. He needs help and not the kind of help that any partner can provide, the kind of help that requires treatment and help from medical professionals. What is your hesitation? You mention he has low self-esteem but what about yours? Focus on you and how you can improve your own life going forward. 

I don't believe he will change. He has anger issues and threatens to self-harm. Those are things you can't fix. 

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, tokyovogue said:

This leads to out of control scenarios (him raising his voice, making threatening gestures [shaking fists, slamming counters], storming out of the room)

Unfortunately you're stuck in an abusive relationship and sadly believe you can fix him with more love or understanding.

 Abusive relationships are about power control and enjoying terrorizing you. It has nothing to do with "being vulnerable" or communication.

 Find a way to extricate yourself from this. Read up on abusive relationships.

 The longer you stay the more damaged you'll be.

[lofi_tokyo]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately you're stuck in an abusive relationship and sadly believe you can fix him with more love or understanding.

 Abusive relationships are about power control and enjoying terrorizing you. It has nothing to do with "being vulnerable" or communication.

 Find a way to extricate yourself from this. Read up on abusive relationships.

 The longer you stay the more damaged you'll be.

I've read up a ton on abusive relationships, and I am not convinced that's what this is. And - I grew up in an abusive home with tons of therapy to follow, so I feel pretty familiar. 

Day to day, our relationship is loving and supportive in many profound ways. I don't feel trapped, controlled, or threatened on a regular basis. However, 2-3 times a year scenarios like the one above happen, and when they happen, they suck.

[d0nnivain]

33 minutes ago, tokyovogue said:

I now find myself asking - where do I go from here? I'm at a stage in my life where I'm ready for marriage. But I can't see myself marrying someone who yells at me or can't take a tiny bit of an emotional share. He wants to change, but we're at year 8, and this behaviour never changes. I actually think this was the worst case yet.

Deep down you know you don't want a lifetime of this but change is scary.  He's been a huge part of your life for 8 years.  The relationship you have is not terrible although there are bad parts.  Problem is the relationship is not good enough to make you want to commit to happily ever after, 'til death do us part.  

As long as you are with him you are depriving yourself of the opportunity to meet the person who will make a good husband. 

When you are ready you will be strong enough to walk away from him & toward a brighter future.  He will not change.  

[Sun Seeker]

32 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Deep down you know you don't want a lifetime of this but change is scary.  He's been a huge part of your life for 8 years.  The relationship you have is not terrible although there are bad parts.  Problem is the relationship is not good enough to make you want to commit to happily ever after, 'til death do us part.  

As long as you are with him you are depriving yourself of the opportunity to meet the person who will make a good husband. 

When you are ready you will be strong enough to walk away from him & toward a brighter future.  He will not change.  

This x1000. Exactly what I was about to say.

He will not change. It's up to you to get the courage to end things and find someone that gives you everything you need and want, all the time.

[ShyViolet]

1 hour ago, tokyovogue said:

I've read up a ton on abusive relationships, and I am not convinced that's what this is. And - I grew up in an abusive home with tons of therapy to follow, so I feel pretty familiar. 

Day to day, our relationship is loving and supportive in many profound ways. I don't feel trapped, controlled, or threatened on a regular basis. However, 2-3 times a year scenarios like the one above happen, and when they happen, they suck.

Please, please stop making excuses.  First and foremost.

Even if this doesn't happen very often, you admitted yourself that the reason it doesn't happen often is that you feel like you can't have conversations with him about things, for fear that he will "blow up", so you you intentionally avoid confrontations with him.  If he is "blowing up" at you, screaming at you, being borderline physically threatening.... you need to BREAK UP.  You cannot be in a relationship with a person like that.  It's not emotionally safe.  You can't communicate with this person about your feelings.  This relationship is toxic, I don't care if it's good sometimes.  

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, tokyovogue said:

This leads to out of control scenarios (him raising his voice, making threatening gestures [shaking fists, slamming counters], storming out of the room)

Does he he do this to his employer, friends or family? Of course not. It's all staged to terrorize you shut you up (which it effectively has).

He is not some poor misunderstood soul. This is your cognitive dissonance talking inside your head that you can't believe you've wasted this long in an abusive relationship.

[smackie9]

This relationship has run it's course is all. You can get tired of someone, and want better. Nothing wrong with that. Move on and be happy. Once you meet someone new you are going ask yourself "why didn't I do this sooner?"

[Miss Spider]

Gently saying you want to work on communication and him screaming he wants to kill himself is a pretty 0 to max response from him. He may have some issues, but you guys seem incompatible to say the least. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[lofi_tokyo]

Hmm ok. A few reflections -

The Good. This relationship is a pretty beautiful one full of many happy memories and joy. It's been a wonderful 8 years so far! Really it has. Hardly a waste of time, even if we breakup. I've had a great time. The days I feel happy and free to be me by far outnumber the bad days. And, I've grown so  much over these years. I can't imagine taking them back. Naturally, this stuff isn't captured in a post like the one I'm sharing. 

The Bad. It's clearly a problem that me delivering critical feedback leads to these wild outbursts. Even if I improve how I give feedback, there's no change I can really make that would prevent his reaction - that's in his control. 

Next Steps. I've set up time with my therapist to go over this one. I've likely got some unpacking to do on what I really want  / need in a relationship, and recognizing how I contribute (and do not contribute) to this cycle. Whether or not  things work out, I have my flaws that I can learn from here. As for my partner, I hope he works through things and more than anything - outside of whether or not we work out, I want him to be happy enough to love himself and want to live. But, that's a choice he has to make. Whether  I stay or not I think requires more thinking - and action.  I'll post if I end up with a meaningful update.

Thanks for the  responses!

Edited July 7, 2021 by tokyovogue

[basil67]

My heart goes out to you.   I know you don't categorise this as abuse because it doesn't happen often, but there's one thing which underscores the abusive nature of this: you're scared to raise things.   You fear his reaction.   

And the unfortunate thing is that you are in a situation where you can't work it though because he won't work with you.   Sadly, I don't see this relationship as one which is able to become healthy.

[Lotsgoingon]

You should not date anyone you cannot raise a hard topic with. 

Not. Not. Not. Not. You can solve problems. Couples have to be able to work out differences.

NEVER ever stay with someone you feel does not listen to your words. Never.

It's literally that strong--NEVER. BTW: you've got low esteem to stay in a relationship with someone who does this. He's not the only one with low esteem.

Dump this guy. 

[glows]

19 minutes ago, tokyovogue said:

Hmm ok. A few reflections -

The Good. This relationship is a pretty beautiful one full of many happy memories and joy. It's been a wonderful 8 years so far! Really it has. Hardly a waste of time, even if we breakup. I've had a great time. The days I feel happy and free to be me by far outnumber the bad days. And, I've grown so  much over these years. I can't imagine taking them back. Naturally, this stuff isn't captured in a post like the one I'm sharing. 

The Bad. It's clearly a problem that me delivering critical feedback leads to these wild outbursts. Even if I improve how I give feedback, there's no change I can really make that would prevent his reaction - that's in his control. 

Next Steps. I've set up time with my therapist to go over this one. I've likely got some unpacking to do on what I really want  / need in a relationship, and recognizing how I contribute (and do not contribute) to this cycle. Whether or not  things work out, I have my flaws that I can learn from here. As for my partner, I hope he works through things and more than anything - outside of whether or not we work out, I want him to be happy enough to love himself and want to live. But, that's a choice he has to make. Whether  I stay or not I think requires more thinking - and action.  I'll post if I end up with a meaningful update.

Thanks for the  responses!

We date to recognize character traits in a partner and to see whether it works for us. That's what you're doing. Be so, so careful of individuals who overreact like he does. Any show of violence is a threat, so is raising a person's voice and shows of aggression. Maybe you're just seeing it and accepting it now but don't deny it or live in denial.

[Lotsgoingon]

You have unfortunately put up with this nonsense so long you're like the frog burning in boiling water: the gradualism of it becomes your demise.

I don't care of "easy" things are--or how much you laugh--if you cannot freely talk about what you want and need in the relationship, you are in a toxic, unhappy relationship. And yes, I do consider his reactions a form of emotional abuse. 

You end up editing your thoughts and tip-toeing around this kind of partner. That is not a 21st century relationship. 

[chillii]

Well , as far as "your needs" , what you think he should cater to silly little things like that when your traveling with friends, of course things aren't usual at a time like that you sound pretty self centered if you can't even go 3 days with friends. Did you cater to "his needs"  .

As for the rest yeah , it's shouldn't have blown up like that though none the less , but maybe your more often a lot more unrealistic and naggy too than you realize and he's just sick to death of it. But of course yeah he has stuff too, big stuff . lt's too big to get on top of that sort of thing and all the talking in the world assuming you even could , ain't gonna fix that stuff, he's got serious problems.

Edited July 8, 2021 by chillii

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, lofi_tokyo said:

 I've set up time with my therapist  I really want  / need in a relationship, and recognizing how I contribute (and do not contribute) to this cycle. 

If your therapist can not identify abusive cycling, you need to get a competent one.

You're using an enormous amount of intellectualization to stay in denial.

[Weezy1973]

18 hours ago, lofi_tokyo said:

However, 2-3 times a year scenarios like the one above happen, and when they happen, they suck.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about improving communication. It sounds like he’s bottling things up and then “exploding” when they reach critical mass. 

[Blind-Sided]

19 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately you're stuck in an abusive relationship and sadly believe you can fix him with more love or understanding.

 Abusive relationships are about power control and enjoying terrorizing you. It has nothing to do with "being vulnerable" or communication.

 Find a way to extricate yourself from this. Read up on abusive relationships.

 The longer you stay the more damaged you'll be.

I wouldn't automatically say this is an abusive relationship.  And I take this very serious, since my exW tried to use that against me.  (went as far as going to the local abuse center, and trying to get a restraining order on me)   If this was my exW writing the story on why she was breaking from me... it would sound abusive also.   This is one side of the story... and although he may have yelled over something that seems superficial... there could be more to the story.  Especially since it's an 8yo relationship.   People start to rub each other the wrong way... and something small today becomes a trigger on a larger/on-going issue.

Let's look at the tea: She asked him to boil water, but he didn't want tea.  Was he standing next to the stove where it would have been easy to just put a kettle on?  Or was he playing a game, and would require him to stop his activity, go to the kitchen to do something simple that she could have done herself?   I know in my current life... my new GF likes me to sit in the kitchen while she is doing things so we can "Be together".  While that is a nice thought... I don't want to sit on a hard stool while she is baking cookies. Not to mention... it's a waste of an hour, just sitting there.  I could be doing my activities, and when we are both done, we can sit and talk somewhere more comfortable.  At first, she was upset when I would say "No"... but she now sees my side, and accepts my reasoning. 

Now, back to the tea, and the outburst...  She called him out in front of friends.  We don't know the exact exchange of words... but any adult would know not to do something like that with friends around.  You have that talk when people have gone home.

She did something wrong... and he got upset.  So yep... I'm not seeing abuse.  I'm just seeing a relationship that has come to it's end.

19 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Deep down you know you don't want a lifetime of this but change is scary.  He's been a huge part of your life for 8 years.  The relationship you have is not terrible although there are bad parts.  Problem is the relationship is not good enough to make you want to commit to happily ever after, 'til death do us part.  

As long as you are with him you are depriving yourself of the opportunity to meet the person who will make a good husband. 

When you are ready you will be strong enough to walk away from him & toward a brighter future.  He will not change.  

Yep... what she said.   It's scary to move on from a long relationship... but it's time.  Just be thankful it happened before you got married. (it's expensive after) 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Blind-Sided