Was this guy just plain crazy and needy?

July 3, 2021

45 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

I'm gonna connect some dots here.

The oversharing on first date (and in subsequent texts) is directly connected to his later criticism of your parenting. Oversharing about himself = bad judgment, bad social skill, bad understanding of how to relate to people, how build relationships, even trust.

Well, the later comments on your parenting are completely consistent with the immediate oversharing: bad judgment, bad reading of the situation, saying things he has no business saying, being clueless about how to connect with other human beings.

Trusting your judgment early on is what prevents later problems. If he overshares about himself, well, he's likely to stick his mouth where it doesn't belong about you--and other people as well. You just didn't get to that--or maybe you did when he talked about his parents.

Yes agree. The oversharing might even be a form of love bombing, because it creates too much connection too soon, or the illusion of connection because it sucks you right in into his life. It can be a strategy.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Emilyinroses

July 3, 2021

Just remember: you have experienced thousands of initial conversations throughout your lifetime. Your nervous system is exquisitely attuned to what good initial conversation sounds like, the topics covered, the amount of disclosure that is appropriate and so on.

So when this guy's oversharing jumped out at you, consider this: on a first date (if you're at all like me) you want to give the other person a chance. So you might under-criticize how jarring this oversharing was. Still it caught your attention. Trust the brain's nervous system on this one: it's way ahead of the rational brain.

There is something needy about oversharing and something disconnected. Some insecurity. Oversharing is not the same as being straightforward and revealing. Oversharing, as I hear you, is talking about things that don't match the limited trust level you have with another person--it is also talking about things that aren't really relevant to a first meeting. A person can own up to flaws and quirks and still not overshare. And maybe that's it: people might share a lot during a spectacular first date, but it's responsive and relevant to the back-and-forth conversation. They share because it's relevant and it fits the conversation.

This oversharing is not really responsive to you or what you guys are talking about. It's more like a random vomit, right? And he likely talks this way in every encounter, so he wasn't really paying attention to you. Why do I know this guy was a terrible listener. He listens only to insert his own loud mouth, not to be curious about what you think and your life experience.

Next time, politely point a guy to the toilet when he vomits. Seriously, you can keep a date short with someone like this. But I get that it's easy to rationalize their sharing. I went out with a woman who vomited like this. Took me a day and then I told a friend: "she was interesting, but I don't think she saw me." She was in her own world nonstop talking away.

July 4, 2021

This guy sounds completely mentally unstable. A nutcase. Good that you cut it off when you did.

July 4, 2021

10 hours ago, Emilyinroses said:

Yes I know, but I don’t do ghosting.

But that’s also why I left him a voice mail message and refused to go on a phone call.

He even asked us to meet to talk! No way.

I get you. That’s good of you. I had a very similar experience with an online date during my brief stint (Could have been the same guy lol) Went on about three dates. He talked SO much. Just about everything under the sun, his life story. Type of guy that could wax poetic about the face of a penny and I’m like “. This isn’t working/we’re not compatible, good luck” and that takes a lot for me, because my instincts are to thost. Instant regret. He blew my phone with crazed text messages and like 25 voice messages ( not voicemails, but the clips) along the lines of ‘why!!! we are so compatible!!!!’ & “we could discuss this better in person “ (wtf?)so I blockedhe was seriously mental , I feel bad for him , but I’m not a doctor

He had a good job, drove a model x, and wasn’t that bad looking, I’m like how can you be this desperate /messed up.

Typical online dater lol….

Edited July 4, 2021 by Cookiesandough

July 4, 2021

7 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Just remember: you have experienced thousands of initial conversations throughout your lifetime. Your nervous system is exquisitely attuned to what good initial conversation sounds like, the topics covered, the amount of disclosure that is appropriate and so on.

So when this guy's oversharing jumped out at you, consider this: on a first date (if you're at all like me) you want to give the other person a chance. So you might under-criticize how jarring this oversharing was. Still it caught your attention. Trust the brain's nervous system on this one: it's way ahead of the rational brain.

There is something needy about oversharing and something disconnected. Some insecurity. Oversharing is not the same as being straightforward and revealing. Oversharing, as I hear you, is talking about things that don't match the limited trust level you have with another person--it is also talking about things that aren't really relevant to a first meeting. A person can own up to flaws and quirks and still not overshare. And maybe that's it: people might share a lot during a spectacular first date, but it's responsive and relevant to the back-and-forth conversation. They share because it's relevant and it fits the conversation.

This oversharing is not really responsive to you or what you guys are talking about. It's more like a random vomit, right? And he likely talks this way in every encounter, so he wasn't really paying attention to you. Why do I know this guy was a terrible listener. He listens only to insert his own loud mouth, not to be curious about what you think and your life experience.

Next time, politely point a guy to the toilet when he vomits. Seriously, you can keep a date short with someone like this. But I get that it's easy to rationalize their sharing. I went out with a woman who vomited like this. Took me a day and then I told a friend: "she was interesting, but I don't think she saw me." She was in her own world nonstop talking away.

You are right. He started oversharing even before we met in person. I should have seen it as a red flag and next him.

I guess looking back what it was is that I have been meeting guys who are very wishy washy, inconsistent on communicating, don’t talk much, etc. So this guy seemed different and I gave him a chance. But now I see if was the other extreme.

I also met another guy and already cut him out. We went on a date and then for the second date he asked me what I want to do and I said let’s go for a walk.

He said great idea but then told me he was going to the beach with his son (who is 12 years old) the next day and asked if I wanted to show up there with my daughter and pretend we bumped into each other, and have a coffee the 4 of us!

This to me is a massive red flag in so many ways. Too soon to involve kids and lying to them!? Not my thing at all, so I cut him out already.

July 4, 2021

13 hours ago, Emilyinroses said:

would share everything about his life, good and bad.

IME people who have done therapy or have suffered mental illness, tend to do this.
They seem to feel the need to share everything very early on, to people who are almost complete strangers.
It is like the normal reticence we have regarding sharing personal stuff has been swept away.
Like they have been freed from the conventions of "keeping it all in" until they get to know you...

It can be genuine in that there is no malice or attempt to manipulate behind it.
Just a short cut some will take in dating. Get it all out in the open and if she walks, she walks, better sooner rather than later...
Some life stories need to be shared early doors - 6 kids to 6 different mothers does not get any better the longer it is kept a secret...

July 4, 2021

6 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

IME people who have done therapy or have suffered mental illness, tend to do this.
They seem to feel the need to share everything very early on, to people who are almost complete strangers.
It is like the normal reticence we have regarding sharing personal stuff has been swept away.
Like they have been freed from the conventions of "keeping it all in" until they get to know you...

It can be genuine in that there is no malice or attempt to manipulate behind it.
Just a short cut some will take in dating. Get it all out in the open and if she walks, she walks, better sooner rather than later...
Some life stories need to be shared early doors - 6 kids to 6 different mothers does not get any better the longer it is kept a secret...

I get that, but then when I told him I don’t want to continue after 4 dates, he was in tears, devastated, saying he fell in love with me, he was thinking about having children with me, how can I do this to him, etc.

So all this and the over sharing feels like codependency to me. Too much too soon.

Maybe he needs the therapy.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Emilyinroses

July 4, 2021

12 hours ago, Emilyinroses said:

I didn’t know it was going to be an hour

That's why you don't wait for these nutters to finish. You don't need to give them audience when they launch a tirade.

After 5 minutes I would have realized it was going to be a very unproductive and unnecesary conversation. That is when you bail. I would not have spoken to him again after that, much less had another date. I don't say that to criticize you, but to urge you to strengthen your boundaries. It will help keep you out of situations like this one, in which there were already red flags.

Listen to your gut the next time you feel something isn't right.

July 4, 2021

55 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

IME people who have done therapy or have suffered mental illness, tend to do this.
They seem to feel the need to share everything very early on, to people who are almost complete strangers.
It is like the normal reticence we have regarding sharing personal stuff has been swept away.
Like they have been freed from the conventions of "keeping it all in" until they get to know you...

It can be genuine in that there is no malice or attempt to manipulate behind it.
Just a short cut some will take in dating. Get it all out in the open and if she walks, she walks, better sooner rather than later...
Some life stories need to be shared early doors - 6 kids to 6 different mothers does not get any better the longer it is kept a secret...

I agree that it does not have to be manipulative. Sometimes they are very nice people that are just socially awkward/can’t grasp social etiquette for whatever reason. Perhaps women he’s dated, like Emily, when they rejected him hadn’t the heart to tell him how unattractive his oversharing is. It may have created this vicious cycle where he’s so full on because he’s really desperate, but because he’s so full on he gets rejected.

July 4, 2021

13 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

I agree that it does not have to be manipulative. Sometimes they are very nice people that are just socially awkward/can’t grasp social etiquette for whatever reason. Perhaps women he’s dated, like Emily, when they rejected him hadn’t the heart to tell him how unattractive his oversharing is. It may have created this vicious cycle where he’s so full on because he’s really desperate, but because he’s so full on he gets rejected.

The guy told me he was in love with me after 4 dates, thinking about having children together and etc. So it was not just the oversharing, he is nuts really.

July 4, 2021

It's I guess about desperation .and actually finding someone who ticks all the boxes. and the disappointment felt when it all fails.
OLD is a harsh place, finding someone who one can see a future with is rare, especially in the "older" dating pool..
Maybe he is kind of crazy, over investing in anyone and everyone who will talk to him, or maybe he is just a soft sloppy guy who wants to be in a relationship, wants to have kids and is having a hard time finding anyone.
Yes, 4 dates is a short time but it is not short if you are usually swimming in mire and have chanced upon a clear blue lagoon.

July 4, 2021

15 minutes ago, Emilyinroses said:

The guy told me he was in love with me after 4 dates, thinking about having children together and etc. So it was not just the oversharing, he is nuts really.

I agree it sounds nuts…

It’s not necessary he’s trying to manipulate/lovebombing imo. He could just be desperate ( and his over sharing, declaration of love and wanting to have kids after a few dates could be a symptom/cause of that) When some people are desperate and they find someone that they like they cling to it, honestly I’ve dated those. People online tend to be at their ropes end with trying to find someone , what brings them there a lot of times, so I think that is why they tend to latch on tightly when they meet someone with potential.

But I don’t disagree, it’s nuts

Edited July 4, 2021 by Cookiesandough

July 4, 2021

15 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

It's I guess about desperation .and actually finding someone who ticks all the boxes. and the disappointment felt when it all fails.
OLD is a harsh place, finding someone who one can see a future with is rare, especially in the "older" dating pool..
Maybe he is kind of crazy, over investing in anyone and everyone who will talk to him, or maybe he is just a soft sloppy guy who wants to be in a relationship, wants to have kids and is having a hard time finding anyone.
Yes, 4 dates is a short time but it is not short if you are usually swimming in mire and have chanced upon a clear blue lagoon.

I don’t think desperation is the right energy to be with someone.

But even so, him getting angry and lashing out at his parents, especially when his dad was sick, says all I needed to know, even if there wasn’t any other red flags.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Emilyinroses

July 4, 2021

14 minutes ago, Emilyinroses said:

him getting angry and lashing out at his parents, especially when his dad was sick, says all I needed to know

I agree.

He likely leads a very conflict-filled life, with him at the centre of it. I dated a guy like this once; he seemed to have a lot of arguments with family, friends, co-workers. He was the common denominator and incredibly difficult to get along with. Small issues became big ones, because he created chaos with nearly everyone.

It didn't last long.

July 4, 2021

31 minutes ago, Emilyinroses said:

I don’t think desperation is the right energy to be with someone.

Likely not but you are going to find it difficult to find anyone on OLD who is not "desperate" on some level.
Desperation though can be temporary and easily cured by finding a suitable person, the same cannot be said of some of the other traits found in individuals.

The guy got under your skin by criticising your parenting...

July 4, 2021

14 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Likely not but you are going to find it difficult to find anyone on OLD who is not "desperate" on some level.
Desperation though can be temporary and easily cured by finding a suitable person, the same cannot be said of some of the other traits found in individuals.

The guy got under your skin by criticising your parenting...

To be honest he didn’t give off desperate vibes. But you are right, the criticising my parenting skills, especially when he doesn’t even have kids, is very arrogant and disrespectful. That and the lashing out at his parents was too much for me.

July 4, 2021

41 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I agree.

He likely leads a very conflict-filled life, with him at the centre of it. I dated a guy like this once; he seemed to have a lot of arguments with family, friends, co-workers. He was the common denominator and incredibly difficult to get along with. Small issues became big ones, because he created chaos with nearly everyone.

It didn't last long.

Yes that sounds like him. First, he had an argument with his brother. Then his parents told him to go to his brothers birthday party and he lashes out at them. Then calls me really angry to vent about it. And then next day decides to go to the party ‘because he loves his parents so much that he does that favour to them’.

He seems like a little kid who doesn’t know how to control his emotions and plays tantrums, creating chaos for everyone.

A normal person would just calmly tell his parents ‘I am angry at my brother but I’ll think about it’, and that’s it! No drama, no lashing out.

And he even justified his behaviour saying he was feeling sensitive that his dad is sick. Well one more reason to not shout at him!

One day he would have this same behaviour with me. Thanks but no thanks.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Emilyinroses

July 4, 2021

12 hours ago, Emilyinroses said:

The parenting thing was on our last date. Then I said ciao after that. So overall I think I cut my losses soon enough.

Then why be this upset? No harm no foul. He's gone.

Reconsider why you are burned out if you are screening and cutting your losses.

Why wait until you get upset so much so, you want to throw in the towel?

Next time don't even meet weirdos and if the first meet feels weird, move forward to someone else.

July 4, 2021

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Then why be this upset? No harm no foul. He's gone.

Reconsider why you are burned out if you are screening and cutting your losses.

Why wait until you get upset so much so, you want to throw in the towel?

Next time don't even meet weirdos and if the first meet feels weird, move forward to someone else.

Best advice ever!

July 4, 2021

21 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Then why be this upset? No harm no foul. He's gone.

Reconsider why you are burned out if you are screening and cutting your losses.

Why wait until you get upset so much so, you want to throw in the towel?

Next time don't even meet weirdos and if the first meet feels weird, move forward to someone else.

Actually I enjoyed our first and second dates, that is why I continued seeing him. It was from the third and especially the 4th date that I started to really see how he is.

On our 4th date (and besides all I mentioned about him), we were in his car watching the sunset over a beach and it was the most romantic scenario. So instead of putting some nice music, getting cozy and kissing, he put some heavy metal videos playing! I was going crazy with the noise! Now I think this is hilarious and so stupid.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Emilyinroses

July 4, 2021

3 hours ago, Emilyinroses said:

So instead of putting some nice music, getting cozy and kissing, he put some heavy metal videos playing! I was going crazy with the noise! Now I think this is hilarious and so stupid.

Sounds like something a teenage boy would do. What his relationships history like? He doesn't sound like someone a woman would endure long term.

July 4, 2021

16 hours ago, Gaeta said:

The way l survive online dating is l accept it will be failure over failure till one day it will be a match.

Exactly. If you have the right expectations you won’t burn out. Random strangers are highly unlikely to be compatible. It’s why meeting IRL seems like there are far fewer weirdos. Just by meeting people doing things you do normally, you’re already filtering for commonalities. But it’s just an illusion. Weirdos are everywhere.

July 4, 2021

2 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Exactly. If you have the right expectations you won’t burn out. Random strangers are highly unlikely to be compatible. It’s why meeting IRL seems like there are far fewer weirdos. Just by meeting people doing things you do normally, you’re already filtering for commonalities. But it’s just an illusion. Weirdos are everywhere.

The same weirdos that are online are also IRL. They don’t live inside a computer

I never meet anyone new in real life, and now is even more difficult with social distancing, no social events and courses being online.

July 4, 2021

55 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Sounds like something a teenage boy would do. What his relationships history like? He doesn't sound like someone a woman would endure long term.

So basically his last relationship was 12 years ago and lasted 2 years. He said it took him 4 years to get over it, and even now he still talks a lot about it.

He said he never had anything serious afterwards up until now. So yes probably has a string of women that didn’t last long.

Yes exactly, looks like something teenagers do, and not even boyfriend and girlfriend, but a bunch of friends inside a car near the beach listening to heavy metal. lol

For a romantic evening in your 40’s I would expect some nice chilled music, some kissing and cuddling, a nice conversation whilst watching the sunset. It would have been just perfect.

Anyway, I can do that on my own anytime.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Emilyinroses

July 4, 2021

11 minutes ago, Emilyinroses said:

So basically his last relationship was 12 years ago and lasted 2 years.

I would not have gone out with this man just based on that. It scares me when l look at men's profiles aged 40ish + and their longest relationship is 2-3 years. I don't engage with them.

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Was this guy just plain crazy and needy?

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