Men LEAD, Women RESPOND

[poppyfields]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

We get the right to judge because she's telling others how to behave.

I won't judge her for choosing to date in the way which suits her, but I will judge for her telling others how it should be.

Fair enough!  

But many of the men on the thread were telling her "how it should be" (that chasing/pursuing is feminine behavior) so all's fair in love and war I guess.

Both sides had very strong opinions about it.

Anyway, I didn't mean to start a war on this site, I just thought it was interesting and would make for an interesting discussion.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[basil67]

Oh come now, you knew very well it would be highly controversial and take off here too  

And for what its worth, I will equally judge a man telling me how it *should* be.   I have tolerance for those who do as they feel is right for them, but none for those who try to tell others how they should behave.

 

[smackie9]

My thoughts, and of course this is all personal preferences: I don't think it's so much about men not taking the lead but more about all around confidence, and taking the initiative. I'm an aggressive/assertive women. I need a confident man that is comfortable with me suggesting where we go for a date, or me grabbing him for a kiss. He needs to be able to reciprocate that energy too. No effort? no more dates for you lol. But that's just being a lazy dater.

[Gaeta]

21 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Not to give you a hard time, but did you say that to the man with the hoodie?  I forget.

Yes, he accepted it. He came back with friendship card, l said ok friends, 24 hours later he came back with sexual innuendoes so l blocked him. 

[Weezy1973]

The human condition is variable. Men are a spectrum as are women. To try to stuff them into some definition of “masculine” and “feminine” is essentially trying to simplify a very complex reality. 
 

If men are supposed to lead is that everywhere? Do they make all the decisions in the relationship too? And women are just eye candy and supposed to keep their thoughts to themselves? That’s certainly the 1950s ideal. Except apparently marriages with these traditional gender roles aren’t as happy:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/so-happy-together/202001/how-do-gender-roles-impact-marriage%3famp

”However, the reality is couples who hold onto traditional gender roles are not as satisfied with their marriages as those who accept more contemporary roles. Modern thinking couples are sometimes referred to as androgynous, because the two partners share a number of personal traits. Both husbands and wives possess some degree of what might be considered masculine traits, such as means-ends problem solving, and feminine traits, such as emotional expressiveness.”

 

And it doesn’t go unnoticed that the women on here wishing for “men to be men” have a history of failed relationships and poor mate choices…

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Oh come now, you knew very well it would be highly controversial and take off here too  

 

Yeah I did, owning that. I think such discussions are healthy and good, gets us thinking.  As long as we can be respectful of others' opinions.

Gets ME thinking anyway, and like I said, now I am back to embracing a more multidimensional concept of masculinity.

I don't like being placed in a "box," and thus I will not place anyone else (including men) in a box either.

Edited June 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

”However, the reality is couples who hold onto traditional gender roles are not as satisfied with their marriages as those who accept more contemporary roles. Modern thinking couples are sometimes referred to as androgynous, because the two partners share a number of personal traits. Both husbands and wives possess some degree of what might be considered masculine traits, such as means-ends problem solving, and feminine traits, such as emotional expressiveness.”

Yeah, that's the multidimensional concept of masculinity I was referring to.  And also multidimensional concept of femininity as well.

[mark clemson]

Responding generally to the original post, FWIW I'm in the camp that thinks this all really depends a lot on the individuals involved and their specific "styles" (for lack of a better word) and preferences.

There seem to be some women who need a man to "chase" (or substitute whatever non-problematic verb you prefer - initiate, show interest) and will feel a lack of attraction if they don't. Others seem perfectly happy to "take charge" of the romancing and partner up.

Similarly for men, I think there are some who "chase" well and some who don't learn how either through repeated rejection during the learning process and/or lack of social skills, or because they were attractive enough that "the women always came to them". I was actually in this latter category as a younger person. For example after a (high school) break up I figured "another girl will be along soon enough". And sure enough one did after about 2 weeks (and she came to me, invited herself over to my parents house and initiated making out, etc - so to the extent there was chasing, she chased me).

I eventually learned to "chase" well (I think) and initiate romantic advances but it wasn't actually until my 20's or so and some dry spells.

I also think that even men who are good at this should at least wait for some sign from the woman. A smile or conversations or some other indicator of at least possible interest. If you simply interrupt a woman who's preoccupied with her work or grocery shopping or whatever, you're aren't likely to do very well IMO unless you are a VERY good looking male. Otherwise the woman is likely, I think, to put you in the "unwanted interest" bucket and react accordingly. The woman giving the man a "window" has been mentioned in another thread and I think that's important to be aware of as a male.

Edited June 21, 2021 by mark clemson

[poppyfields]

32 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

My thoughts, and of course this is all personal preferences: I don't think it's so much about men not taking the lead but more about all around confidence, and taking the initiative. I'm an aggressive/assertive women. I need a confident man that is comfortable with me suggesting where we go for a date, or me grabbing him for a kiss. He needs to be able to reciprocate that energy too. No effort? no more dates for you lol. But that's just being a lazy dater.

I just saw this, well said!  I wouldn't consider myself "aggressive" but I do enjoy taking initiative sometimes, suggesting where to go, or grabbing him for a kiss!

Bolded, absolutely!!  

Thanks for chiming in smackie, again very well said.

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[norealusername]

If anyone has gender roles screwed up in the US...it's women.

Looking at online dating profiles, I'm constantly seeing women posing with their Harley,  pickup truck or ATV, posing with dead animals they just killed, showing off their tattoos, weight lifting at the gym, shooting their gun at the range....the list is endless. Are women honestly this clueless that they believe this attracts men? 

A large amount look like linebackers or men in drag. God forbid they would wear a dress or even women's clothing for that matter.

[Allupinnit]

I never had luck with men I had to chase.  And by that I mean the guy asks me out and plans the first date, usually the second and there is a good amount of contact in between. Not texting a bunch but just making sure to check in before the date, maybe asking how their day was, etc. a couple of jokes thrown in.  

Every time I asked a man out or reached out to try and rekindle something, things tended to get sexual right off the bat and maybe not on purpose but I suspect they thought I was easy.

I never liked how I felt when I took initiative with a guy I was unsure of.  Never worked out in my favor.

[norealusername]

I have no problem taking initiative, asking women out, flirting. But as for 'chasing', not likely. If I get turned down or no positive signals, I'm done. Chasing is just playing games.

[poppyfields]

16 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

I never liked how I felt when I took initiative with a guy I was unsure of.  Never worked out in my favor.

How about a guy you were sure of?  Or as sure as any of us can be in these precarious early stages?

I like a man to take the initiative too, do the initial approaching, but I will meet him half way, by giving him a "window," so he knows I am interested.

I think that's important.  Once we begin dating, I am capable of initiating and often have.   I don't lose my feminine "essence" when doing this.

A woman can still be feminine and initiate, just like a man can be masculine but allow the woman to take the lead once in awhile.

I think the best relationships are when both give equal effort.  They're just "in tune" with each other, it flows naturally.

No one is keeping score or anything like that.

I wasn't a member of that other site when the thread was posted, but if I had been, that is what I would have posted.

Edited June 22, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, norealusername said:

I have no problem taking initiative, asking women out, flirting. But as for 'chasing', not likely. If I get turned down or no positive signals, I'm done. Chasing is just playing games.

Bolded, as you should be, I posted that earlier.

[Allupinnit]

I don't know - the men who turned into LTRs just kept showing up and I didn't have to worry about whether to text or not.  Mostly they did all of the work and come on, it's not that hard to tell when a woman is into you.  A nice kiss and a thank you at the end of the night suffices.  The dude almost always texted the next day for another date and that's how I knew they were into it.

Never had to make a thread about my H on any r'ship sites lol

[Gaeta]

Any of you have experienced being pursued by an introvert man?

I wonder about them. Are they wired differently. 

Not all men are made equal l guess,  wolves are hunters but not every wolf of the pack hunts. Why should we expect every man to pursue. 

[Pumpernickel]

Just now, Gaeta said:

Why should we expect every man to pursue. 

Exactly. If they’re introverted, shy, withdrawn and whatnot - they can still be intelligent and interesting and attractive. Doesn’t mean they have to “lead” or “hunt”. Such a stereotype. 

[norealusername]

I'm a total introvert. I'm not afraid to approach women and ask them out but I generally wouldn't chase anyone. It might depend on the actual definition of chasing. 

If you ask a woman out and she says no, then it's over, I don't keep asking. Might end up with a restraining order.

[Timshel]

All my friends are married and have been for a very long time. Peripherally, most people I know and meet are married. No person knows what goes on behind closed doors; but no women 'chasing' men around here. The women who are calling men, being sexually aggressive are passed over for marital/long term relationships. 

 

[Lotsgoingon]

What's interesting here is that every man I know and have interacted with--every friend, every acquaintance, every man who has ever expressed an interest in women--assumes he has to ask the woman out and take the lead at least at the start.

Now, are there men who get scared about approaching a woman? Men who doubt themselves? Men who aren't sure where to go on a date?  Men who worry that proposing the wrong date will ruin their chances with a woman?

Yes, yes. yes and yes. 

But every last man I know (and even my gay male friends when commenting on hetero dating) assumes that a man will ask a woman out to initiate things, so to speak. In the old days, it was "did you get her phone number?" These days, it's more "did she add herself to your contacts?" 

I simply don't see any crime or overturning of the natural order occurring because lots of guys are awkward and not confident when approaching some women. BTW: half of the reason men are not confident is because they feel themselves suffocating beneath a mountain of cultural expectations dictating how a man would behave. Lots of guys have trouble inserting themselves into the seemingly heroic, all-confident, no-self-doubting, plenty-of-money, always-suave role that they have heard about.  

And look, we've had a women's revolution, and yes, the roles are not the same as before. Things are more flexible. Still even with the women's movement, even among the men in my circles (men who strongly support feminism) they ALL, EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, assumes they will have to initiate things when beginning at relationship. 

So, I'm interested in learning about these men that apparently behave differently and think differently than every single man I had come across in five decades of living. 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[Sugarkane]

Whenever I tried to make the initiative with a man- it never works. I got no answers, rejection or ghosted. I tend to agree. 

[Soul-shards]

100% accurate (I am a woman).

[Ami1uwant]

6 hours ago, poppyfields said:

First off, I did NOT write what I am about to post.  I got this from another site, very much like LS but it caters to men.   It's written by a woman (a few women post over there even though it's a men's site), who after reading many of her posts, and interacting with her, may be one of the most intelligent women I have ever known.

I hope everyone will read with an open mind, and provide thoughtful responses.

--------

Gentlemen. If you desire a lady act like a MAN. Men ACT. The masculine essence & energy is seeking and outward facing.

The feminine essence is receptive, responsive & inward facing. Look at anatomy.

Initiation of an interaction is from masculine energy. It is leadership in the relationship. It is the man’s role. Don’t expect feminine women to behave by initiating.

Now all bets are off for clingy insecure women who will chase you (and thereby take away the masculine pleasure of the hunt and ultimately the conquest.)...

I don’t care if millennials think this is the new norm. It just means very few real men exist in that age group. One generation is not going to suddenly reverse hundreds of thousands of years of developmental & behavioral biology. 

You young bucks want an edge? Lead. Initiate. If she responds and is warm and receptive? Lead again. See if she responds favorably again. Repeat, repeat, repeat. 

Masculine energy craves feminine essence. That’s biology.

Too many men don’t know how to act like a man. This creates a vacuum or leadership void that women step into by becoming more masculine (initiating, pursuing, etc.). Men acting like princesses and then wondering why all the women are overly masculine feminists.

Current social trendiness isn’t helping but rather is muddying the water.

No wonder guys are confused.

Be a man. Initiate. Approach. Lead. Act. 

Give the woman something to respond to.

These men who want women to initiate and chase them are the same dudes who end up in sexless relationships with she-man bossy women who have got their balls in a glass case. Her desire wanes (no surprise) because the whole dynamic runs counter to biology and human behavioral instinct.

Be a man and attract a feminine woman. Everybody is better off.

But it starts with the masculine essence of leadership and being a man.

 

END OF POST.

Thoughts?

 

yet women want equality......

[Ami1uwant]

37 minutes ago, Sugarkane said:

Whenever I tried to make the initiative with a man- it never works. I got no answers, rejection or ghosted. I tend to agree. 

What do you do? If it’s too subtle a guy isn’t picking up on it.

 

 

[HotRevolver93]

I tried taking the lead  and approaching and it ends up failing epically so I just stay in my lane now lol.