Bad past experiences, now distrustful of women

[butterfingerbbz]

My past couple of relationships were bad, toxic messes riddled with abuse, gaslighting, manipulation, you name it. The first of these (about 8 years ago), my ex was genuinely not a good person and came into my life at a vulnerable spot. That led two about 4 years of anxious misery, and when I finally kicked her out it was like the biggest weight lifted from my shoulders. I spent the next couple of years really focusing on myself, hitting the gym 5-6 days a week, working on my mental health, regaining my confidence, broadening my career. I went on at least 20 first dates in those two years, and admittedly my screening process was rigorous. I didn't want to wind up with my ex again. For the first time in my life I was comfortable being with myself, and it felt awesome.

In walks my new ex. I felt like she was exactly who I was waiting for. Extremely smart, funny, beautiful, driven, career focused, organized, you name it. Thing also moved at a steady pace that felt safe and comfortable. After a few months though the cracks started to form (hindsight is 20/20), and it turned into a situation even worse than with my previous partner. While she was a good person, her mental health was destructive to where she would yell and scream, throw things, threaten herself, call me names. It was terrible. I tried to leave numerous times and she kept sucking me back in. Typical abusive relationship. I finally left when she hit me. I hated myself for winding up in an even worse situation than before. It felt like a Trojan Horse slipped through my gates.

Now, almost a year later, I find myself back in the dating scene and I've talked to several women, went on a couple of dates that were okay at best. My problem though, is that when I feel like I meet someone who might show some potential I find myself looking for every possible red flag I can find. Does she have tattoos? Well, then she's a lying cheater like my ex. Does she read a lot? Both exes read a ton, so it must mean that this new girl's brain is hyper-active and damaged. She just sent me a selfie, is she trying to lure me in? Flirting feels like manipulation. I find myself distrustful of new women to where it's like I'm negotiating a car sale, trying to outsmart the car dealer and not get trapped into a bad deal.

I am working on it with my therapist, but I can't seem to make any progress. I do want to settle down with a nice woman who I really jive with, but sometimes I feel like I'm a magnet for troubled women, hence my rigorous screening process. It's not fair to them, but it's also not fair to myself because I'm not allowing myself to just live in the moment. 

Has anyone here found themself in a similar situation?

Edited June 20, 2021 by butterfingerbbz

[cleverusername]

I just want to start off by saying how commendable it is that you;

A) identified the problem yourself

and 

B) are actively working on fixing it.

These are the two biggest obstacles most people face and you are way ahead of the curve. A lot of people get caught in a pattern of denial and self loathe but you aren't. To answer your question, yes this is still something I have issues with. My past relationships have not all been great ones, and like you I catch myself from time to time making judgments based on them. However, I try and avoid it. Each person is a unique individual and each relationship is new. It's not fair to another woman to view her as the same as a previous woman, because she's not. I would not want my partner viewing me as one of her ex's because I'm not. I'm uniquely me. Just like you're uniquely you. And they are uniquely them.

There's nothing wrong with you, just keep working on it. You're on the right path.

[Wiseman2]

The only pattern that stands out is rather than dating women on their own merits, you are continually dating the un-ex.

[butterfingerbbz]

9 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

The only pattern that stands out is rather than dating women on their own merits, you are continually dating the un-ex.

In other words, I'm not out trying to find a good woman, I'm trying to find a woman who doesn't have the same flaws as my exes?

[butterfingerbbz]

10 hours ago, cleverusername said:

I just want to start off by saying how commendable it is that you;

A) identified the problem yourself

and 

B) are actively working on fixing it.

These are the two biggest obstacles most people face and you are way ahead of the curve. A lot of people get caught in a pattern of denial and self loathe but you aren't. To answer your question, yes this is still something I have issues with. My past relationships have not all been great ones, and like you I catch myself from time to time making judgments based on them. However, I try and avoid it. Each person is a unique individual and each relationship is new. It's not fair to another woman to view her as the same as a previous woman, because she's not. I would not want my partner viewing me as one of her ex's because I'm not. I'm uniquely me. Just like you're uniquely you. And they are uniquely them.

There's nothing wrong with you, just keep working on it. You're on the right path.

Thanks for the kind words. You're right, we're all uniquely "us," but I think I find myself looking for key triggers which is a huge defense mechanism. I think those defensive walls can be healthy, but I may have gone too far into unhealthy territory to the point where I shut anyone out that gives me any inkling of a red flag. Like flirting, which I mentioned above. We all know flirting is a normal part of attraction and is necessary. At the moment I'm texted back and forth with someone and things are going relatively well, but when she sends me a flirty text I'm immediately reminded of how my ex from long ago moved too fast and I should be on the lookout for that behavior to protect myself. Objectively this woman isn't moving too fast at all, but the simple act of flirting is triggering flag warnings. It's stuff like this that I'm trying to overcome. But then I say to myself, once you get comfortable again you're just opening the door for another toxic woman to slip past your guards and history will repeat itself. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by butterfingerbbz

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, butterfingerbbz said:

In other words, I'm not out trying to find a good woman, I'm trying to find a woman who doesn't have the same flaws as my exes?

Exactly, you're playing defense with your emotions and exes, rather than getting in the game with a clean slate and open eyes.

So you are missing out on good women and picking one bad match after the next because she doesn't have the particular issue the last ex had.

[chillii]

Doubt anyone here could do close to your therapist in that area so keep that up or change to another one.  But just wondering, what sort of ages are you meeting? 

l could well understand how you must be feeling about something new though but could you maybe check them out , her out, do some snooping. Not nice but with your history , might be a place to start. l dunno , ex's , friends , do some digging. Plenty of women do it with men they meet often before they even go on a date if this place is anything to go by.  And get her talking about ex's too, and her version of what happened histories often a dead give away.

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by chillii

[d0nnivain]

19 hours ago, butterfingerbbz said:

While she was a good person, her mental health was destructive to where she would yell and scream, throw things, threaten herself, call me names. It was terrible. I tried to leave numerous times and she kept sucking me back in. 

* * * 

Has anyone here found themself in a similar situation?

No I have not found myself in a similar situation.  You pick bad women & then you stay.  You need to leave at the 2nd sign of trouble.  I say that because everyone has a bad day. So one outburst . . .maybe but my radar is up & when I see the pattern, the 2nd time, I'm out. 

You don't need to be distrustful of all women but you do need to be stronger.  When you see the stuff you don't like leave.  Don't stick around & don't get sucked back in.  When you allow the bad stuff to go on & on, you become a volunteer rather than a victim.  

Work with your therapist to find out why you stay.  Try to remember that dating is not a fixer upper project.  You need to date people who are mentally healthy adults from the beginning.   

[BeanCounter]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Exactly, you're playing defense with your emotions and exes, rather than getting in the game with a clean slate and open eyes.

So you are missing out on good women and picking one bad match after the next because she doesn't have the particular issue the last ex had.

I like this advice. You can tell a lot about someone in the way they talk about their past relationships. Even in the way that they describe things, and why things had to end. Do they look at all their exes as miserable mistakes, or do they value the time they had and what they learned from them?

I wouldn't treat every date as a make-or-break situation where you are out hunting for reasons to stop dating someone. You said 20 first dates, so I'm assuming the vast majority of those didn't translate to second dates. Try to let someone in and give them a change before discarding them so easily because of something simple like having tattoos or reading. Recognize that both of those are qualities that literally millions of people have/enjoy, are not indicative of literally anything at all that would translate to a person being toxic.

If there are serious concerns, take that into mind and move on, but don't sweat the small stuff, or in the case of the examples above, the things that aren't even "stuff" at all.

[Commongoal123]

On 6/21/2021 at 12:58 AM, butterfingerbbz said:

Thanks for the kind words. You're right, we're all uniquely "us," but I think I find myself looking for key triggers which is a huge defense mechanism. I think those defensive walls can be healthy, but I may have gone too far into unhealthy territory to the point where I shut anyone out that gives me any inkling of a red flag. Like flirting, which I mentioned above. We all know flirting is a normal part of attraction and is necessary. At the moment I'm texted back and forth with someone and things are going relatively well, but when she sends me a flirty text I'm immediately reminded of how my ex from long ago moved too fast and I should be on the lookout for that behavior to protect myself. Objectively this woman isn't moving too fast at all, but the simple act of flirting is triggering flag warnings. It's stuff like this that I'm trying to overcome. But then I say to myself, once you get comfortable again you're just opening the door for another toxic woman to slip past your guards and history will repeat itself. 

I've experienced similar things and an loving a similar story my friend.

I've ignored what I perceived to be red flags, I ended up with the same kind of toxic person and abusive relationship.  Especially when I made excuses like "objectively there aren't any red flags"...

Your intuition is likely stronger than you give it credit for.  Maybe you are a magnet for abusive and disturbed women.  I am.  But they aren't the only types who will be attracted and interested in you.

That said, I think most people in my generation (30s) are mentally unwell.  So that makes the pool even more poisoned.  I think it has to do with the emergence of social media.  It particularly seems to have really messed up women in general who grew up with social media in their lives.

This doesn't mean there isn't someone out there for you.  There is.

Don't discredit your intuition.  Listen to your gut.  It's probably right.

And don't overanalyze.

Just keep doing what you're doing and feel good about being you and good about yourself.  She'll show up.

[Maldives]

On 6/21/2021 at 3:53 AM, butterfingerbbz said:

My past couple of relationships were bad, toxic messes riddled with abuse, gaslighting, manipulation, you name it. The first of these (about 8 years ago), my ex was genuinely not a good person and came into my life at a vulnerable spot. That led two about 4 years of anxious misery, and when I finally kicked her out it was like the biggest weight lifted from my shoulders. I spent the next couple of years really focusing on myself, hitting the gym 5-6 days a week, working on my mental health, regaining my confidence, broadening my career. I went on at least 20 first dates in those two years, and admittedly my screening process was rigorous. I didn't want to wind up with my ex again. For the first time in my life I was comfortable being with myself, and it felt awesome.

In walks my new ex. I felt like she was exactly who I was waiting for. Extremely smart, funny, beautiful, driven, career focused, organized, you name it. Thing also moved at a steady pace that felt safe and comfortable. After a few months though the cracks started to form (hindsight is 20/20), and it turned into a situation even worse than with my previous partner. While she was a good person, her mental health was destructive to where she would yell and scream, throw things, threaten herself, call me names. It was terrible. I tried to leave numerous times and she kept sucking me back in. Typical abusive relationship. I finally left when she hit me. I hated myself for winding up in an even worse situation than before. It felt like a Trojan Horse slipped through my gates.

Now, almost a year later, I find myself back in the dating scene and I've talked to several women, went on a couple of dates that were okay at best. My problem though, is that when I feel like I meet someone who might show some potential I find myself looking for every possible red flag I can find. Does she have tattoos? Well, then she's a lying cheater like my ex. Does she read a lot? Both exes read a ton, so it must mean that this new girl's brain is hyper-active and damaged. She just sent me a selfie, is she trying to lure me in? Flirting feels like manipulation. I find myself distrustful of new women to where it's like I'm negotiating a car sale, trying to outsmart the car dealer and not get trapped into a bad deal.

I am working on it with my therapist, but I can't seem to make any progress. I do want to settle down with a nice woman who I really jive with, but sometimes I feel like I'm a magnet for troubled women, hence my rigorous screening process. It's not fair to them, but it's also not fair to myself because I'm not allowing myself to just live in the moment. 

Has anyone here found themself in a similar situation?

Ye me lol whilst they hadn't been abusive, there's been cheating ..deep down I'm still cautious but now i see it as a good thing. It's your antenna up. For me I see the red flags quicker and heed and listen to what my guts saying. Having said that, I do also over analyse some situations that's because of what happened. I started to have some counseling around this and one thing the therapist pointed out helped quiet a bit. She said that we expect the next person to be perfect and know all our needs and what we want and what we're thinking. The problem with that is is that there's no one in the world that could understand what's inside of us most donno even know what's going inside of them so to expect and put that kind of pressure on someone else is very unrealistic. Plus no one's perfect were all imperfect in some way. She talked about managing my trust issues. That's where we got up to so more work needed in my case. I guess it's not bad to be on your guard but try not to expect the other person to know every nuance and detail of what we have been through and experienced it's just unrealistic and sets you up for failure. There's no guarantees in love or life. All we can do is give someone the benifit of the doubt but take action and draw boundaries a lot quicker of what we will tolerate in a relationship or want. 

Key takeaway - give the person the benifit of the doubt, use your past experience to quickly pick up red flags and draw boundaries, take a lil longer to get to really know someone. Tell you what, nothing tests a relationship like some form of pressure. Gauge through that how that person handles it interacting with you. Don't keep giving people the benifit of the doubt that show red flags move on and out of the  situation quicker. I think that's what my counsellor was alluding to about managing your trust issues. 

[Stinemoren]

me too, I have also have bad experience.

[smackie9]

When you having nothing but bad experiences, the common denominator is you. It's not that you can't trust women...you can't trust yourself. You can't trust your choices, you can't trust yourself to walk away or end it, can't trust yourself control. You have become indecisive. You still need more time to work on yourself mentally...you are not ready to date or give your full self to someone.

[AnnieB]

You could be working on yourself for the rest of your life and still run into terrible people. The trick is recognize the red flags and cut them off after unacceptable behavior. Do not stick around hoping to change them, and don't get into a trauma bond. Really watch out for a trauma bond. If you get a sense of confusion with a woman, know that it's a red flag. If you are prone to getting into abusive relationships it is because you are codependent and fall into trauma bond relationships, where you base your self worth on how someone treats you, etc. You have to be extra vigilant to not fall into those patterns. And the best way to approach it it is not them, it's you. You allowed it to go beyond expiration date and didn't cut them off at the first sign of trouble. 

[Highndry]

My ex had BPD. I had never even heard of it before she came into my life - or I welcomed her into my life. I was not prepared for this level of dysfunction. She was really cute and had some great qualities so I overlooked a few red flags early. When I look back on the relationship, all I really needed to do was send her packing after the first red flag and I would have avoided all of the drama. In the future, I will not make that mistake again. I will give every woman a chance and not be looking to cut bait, but I will certainly do it when they cross that line.

[butterfingerbbz]

Well like I said, in the two years I was single leading up to meeting my ex I was really working on myself mentally and physically, building up some great self-worth and confidence. After about 6 months, once the bad behavior started, I actually did try to leave. That was basically the moment where things became infinitely worse and she began sucking me back in every time I tried to split. In hindsight again, maybe I wasn't as strong as I thought I was? My big problem is that I fall for the sob story and think to myself, "she's a good person, it isn't her fault she is this way." When I tried to leave I felt like the scum of the earth. People have off days, though, so when is bad behavior BAD behavior and a red flag, and when is it just an off day?

At the moment I'm also starting to recognize the damage that she caused to my self worth and confidence. She called me every name in the book and dragged me down an emotional rollercoaster. After awhile you start to believe the things they say, and I'm having a hard time reaching that spot that I was in before her. After my previous relationship ended I felt like the biggest weight had lifted off my shoulders. This time I feel more defeated.

Edited July 7, 2021 by butterfingerbbz

[Miss Spider]

36 minutes ago, butterfingerbbz said:

My big problem is that I fall for the sob story and think to myself, "she's a good person, it isn't her fault she is this way."

I think this is something you really need to work on. It is pretty common when you’re into someone to dismiss red flags. Depending on where you’re at, you may not have the complete ability to identify them. True, it is not her fault she is that way but no reason to make it your problem by dating her 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[glows]

On 6/20/2021 at 10:53 AM, butterfingerbbz said:

I find myself distrustful of new women to where it's like I'm negotiating a car sale, trying to outsmart the car dealer and not get trapped into a bad deal.

I am working on it with my therapist, but I can't seem to make any progress. I do want to settle down with a nice woman who I really jive with, ...

It seems like a lot of pressure. Can you not simply meet people with no expectations? Find out whether they have similar backgrounds as you or similar goals and go from there. Smackie really hit the nail on the head about learning to trust yourself again. 

[butterfingerbbz]

11 hours ago, glows said:

It seems like a lot of pressure. Can you not simply meet people with no expectations? Find out whether they have similar backgrounds as you or similar goals and go from there. Smackie really hit the nail on the head about learning to trust yourself again. 

Oh, I can definitely go on dates with few expectations and actually have a good time, but when it seems like things can progress beyond that I start to feel that anxiety. A couple weeks ago I went on a date with a girl who was nice enough but I wasn't feeling it as much as she did. After she followed up with me and expressed her interest my "uh oh, not again" meter started to go off. 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that my brain is beginning to look at relationships as jail sentences or traumatic events rather than positive experiences where I can share my life with someone I can enjoy my time with and fully trust. It's difficult to identify with my friends who have all gotten married and had kids because my past experiences have been so negative, and I don't understand how anyone can trust a person enough to sign a lifetime contract with them or be bound to a child. The kicker, though, is that I know that this is the wrong way to look at it and I actually do want to find someone I CAN trust and enjoy.

My ex felt like a breath of fresh air. She was pretty, extremely responsible and organized, smart, career-oriented, etc., and I never in a million years would have thought she would flip the way she did. It feels like a Trojan horse slipped in beyond my walls, which are pretty heavily guarded. Now I'm worried that all women I meet are the same way.

Edited July 7, 2021 by butterfingerbbz