I'm tired of being the one who makes any effort on OLD

[Redguitar36]

1 hour ago, dramafreezone said:

If she's barely interested in you (which is going to be the case most often) you don't have the luxury of carrying on this back and forth with OLD.  Your objective is to move this from OLD to real life as soon as possible.    What purpose did that back and forth serve with regard to setting up a date?

If she was making zero effort online, she certainly would have made no effort on a date. 

[Amanda92]

Not all conversation are that boring. I usually start a conversation asking about something in the description or pictures. 

I'm  sorry, but you have to put more efforts because girls got many messages every day.

[dramafreezone]

11 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

All introductory small talk is boring in the beginning. That's why you pivot from that pretty quickly, but she got all passive aggressive before that pivot was made. I put the same question to you that I put to @TheDarkMiller: Even if the question wasn't interesting (not like the transgender bathroom bill she wanted to discuss was something one would want to respond to either to be honest) why the rudeness and passive aggressive ??? on her part? Do you think that was necessary? 

Maybe she's a rude and passive aggressive person.  Maybe she was in a bad mood.  Actually I would bet on the latter if she's bringing up politics to a potential romantic interest.

If she saw you as a 10 in her eyes, it wouldn't have mattered what you said.  "How's it going, I just came back from clubbing baby seals all day," Her "haha you're so funny!"

She barely had any interest in you.  Your chances of getting her on a date were next to 0%.  You have to realize this.  Every OLD match is not going to give you a lot of time to make an impression if they have tons of matches.

Getting this one on a date would be analogous to having 50 keys and one chance to unlock a door, you just picked the wrong key.  Or maybe she was in a bad mood and none of the keys would've worked that day.  Oh well, on the next.

Edited June 1, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Redguitar36]

15 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Maybe she was in a bad mood.

You are hedging here like a politician. Was it passive aggressive?

Quote

Maybe she was in a bad mood.  Actually I would bet on the latter if she's bringing up politics to a potential romantic interest.

I don't really care. Her mood isn't my problem. If you're in a bad mood, then stay off the dating apps until you can actually converse with someone. Sounds a lot like the advice the biased users here have presented to men. 

Quote

She barely had any interest in you.  Your chances of getting her on a date were next to 0%.  You have to realize this.  Every OLD match is not going to give you a lot of time to make an impression if they have tons of matches.

Getting this one on a date would be analogous to having 50 keys and one chance to unlock a door, you just picked the wrong key.  Oh well, on the next.

There won't be a next. Why play a game that's rigged against you. As another user hinted at, online dating is rigged against men. Women get so much attention on these apps many of 'em make no effort most of the time. Why should they have to when they have a line of mere mortals begging for crumbs of her time. This is the main reason I'm all but finished with online dating apps. The way these apps are puts MEN at a substantial disadvantage. I don't know many guys who have anything positive to say about their experiences on online dating. It's not their fault, but Women have all the cards and all the power on these apps, because of men outnumbering them 2-1 or 3-1 on them. It's impossible to have any positive dynamic with a gender imbalance like that. It leaves men frustrated and women like this one jaded as hell to the point that they can't even carry their end of a conversation. It's bad for everyone.

The app developers need to solve the gender imbalance if they really want to improve the user experience for both men and women. Maybe limiting the number of men who can sign up at one time. Bumble gave it a shot by making an app where women have to message first, but of course those messages tend to be low effort as well. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Redguitar36

[Redguitar36]

17 minutes ago, Amanda92 said:

Not all conversation are that boring. I usually start a conversation asking about something in the description or pictures. 

I'm  sorry, but you have to put more efforts because girls got many messages every day.

You dodged the question I put to you: Even if the question wasn't interesting (not like the transgender bathroom bill she wanted to discuss was something one would want to respond to either to be honest) why the rudeness and passive aggressive ??? on her part? Do you think that was necessary? I assure you the world will not end when you acknowledge a woman could have handled a situation better than she did and that women are open to criticism. 

[Redguitar36]

2 hours ago, cleverusername said:

It was, I agree. But that doesn't mean you should let it affect you and change your energy, right? If you were positive before why let some negative woman bring you down? It's her loss, move on.

 

I commend you for answering the question. Most of the users here are so set in their bias that a woman can do no wrong when it comes to her interactions with men online, or so set in the ancient and traditional mode of dating where the man does all the chasing, they are unable to acknowledge when a woman could have handled a situation better and so they just dodge the question. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Redguitar36

[dramafreezone]

4 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

I commend you for answering the question. Most of the users here are so set in their bias that a woman can do no wrong when it comes to her interactions with men online, or so set in the ancient and traditional mode of dating where the man does all the chasing, they are unable to acknowledge when a woman could have handled a situation better and so they just dodge the question. 

I don't think anyone is saying that this woman "did no wrong."

I even said that maybe that's just her nature or maybe she was having a bad day.  You still handled it poorly.

When I believe someone is being rude to me, the way I see it is that they're suffering in some way.  No one that's feeling great about themselves is rude to someone else.

All you did was show her your own rudeness.  What did it get you?  You said that she shouldn't be on OLD if she can't have a conversation.  Maybe you're right, but you shouldn't be on there if you can't handle these situations with more maturity.

[TheDarkMiller]

31 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

You are hedging quite a bit here. Was it passive aggressive? @clever username said that it was. You seem unwilling to say so. I assure you the world will not end when you acknowledge a woman could have handled a situation better than she did and that women are open to criticism. You can say that and it doesn't make you a misogynist despite some of the extreme accusations we've seen in this thread. 

If you want me to answer the question truthfully then yes I can see how it can come across as passive aggressive to someone but it doesn't come across as passive aggressive TO ME as sometimes I write with double/triple punctuation with no aggressive or passive aggressive tendencies at all. But answer me this, why couldn't you write a question more interesting, about one of her pics or something in her bio?

Someone else said it here, they probably liked something about you but wasn't very interested in you but gave it a go to see what your first message would be, or they were chatting to two guys at once (you and an other guy) and she found the other guy more attractive/engaging than you. 

You may hate it but dating is a competition, the best get the best, and the rest get the rest. And when I say rest, I don't mean just physicality, but emotionally and personally as well.

I suppose you can't find any fault in your attitude at all

[Redguitar36]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

This woman is NOT your ex who dumped you at Xmas, 3 years ago, she is just a stranger on a dating site looking for some sort of a connection

She does have a similar problem that that ex had: the effort was all one-sided. I as the man was making all the effort and getting little to no reciprocation just like in that relationship. This is a repeated pattern I see with the women I have encountered. There's the addage that you get out what you put in, but this does not seem to apply to women in the interactions I have had with them. What happens is you put in effort and get nothing in return. I don't know what to make of that. 

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Your response was rude, and your justification  for your actions with this girl are way over the top.
Sort yourself out  ASAP is my advice...
You don't get your youth back, it is up to you to make the most out of every day you have in this life.
No woman wants a bitter and jaded man who is taking  his dissatisfaction with the world, out on random women on OLD...

Her remark "and???" was passive aggressive. The conversation didn't go negative until she acted that way. 

[introverted1]

3 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

 Most of the users here are so set in their bias that a woman can do know wrong when it comes to her interactions with men online,

You are missing the point.  There are plenty of threads where there is criticism leveled at women who behave poorly off- and online.

The real bias here is that YOU cannot see how your own behavior is sinking your own ship.

Yes, she said "Okay ???" She was probably gob-smacked that you took an innocent comment about role-playing games and responded that you liked first-person shooter games.  Way to creep someone out.  And then, rather than try to salvage things, you sent the passive aggressive message "You could have asked what I'm doing with my life these days. But I guess that would require some effort lol." And now you're here wanting us to pile on her.

Dude, you just don't get it.  And until you do, you life will be filled with bitterness and anger, not dates.

[Redguitar36]

3 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

I don't think anyone is saying that this woman "did no wrong."

I even said that maybe that's just her nature or maybe she was having a bad day.  You still handled it poorly.

When I believe someone is being rude to me, the way I see it is that they're suffering in some way.  No one that's feeling great about themselves is rude to someone else.

All you did was show her your own rudeness.  What did it get you?  You said that she shouldn't be on OLD if she can't have a conversation.  Maybe you're right, but you shouldn't be on there if you can't handle these situations with more maturity.

I could have no responded to her rudeness and unmatched, but that’s just not healthy for men or women honestly. The men walk away with his tail between his legs feeling disrespected and the women come away thinking that it’s acceptable to be disrespectful to men because they are women and so she repeats the behavior with someone else. I really bet I wasn’t the first guy she dissed on online dating for no reason. She felt she could get away with it because she’s probably gotten away with it before. 

[Not So Sad II]

10 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

I commend you for answering the question. Most of the users here are so set in their bias that a woman can do no wrong when it comes to her interactions with men online, or so set in the ancient and traditional mode of dating where the man does all the chasing, they are unable to acknowledge when a woman could have handled a situation better and so they just dodge the question. 

Handled it better than what?  To me, as a dreaded woman, she handled it really well.  Safety is paramount for a lot of women, and your first comment was overly familiar and your second comment was about shooting (even if its just a game it might have been an idea to discuss something else).  Women on OLD can be very risk averse.  

I also don't think her comment was passive aggressive, I think it was wary and placatory while she made up her mind based on your next response.

Why do you do OLD if you don't like it so much?  Why not try to meet women another way?  Plenty of people do.

Just how someone can analyse a micro exchange in so much detail is beyond me.  

[Redguitar36]

4 minutes ago, Not So Sad II said:

Handled it better than what?  To me, as a dreaded woman, she handled it really well.  Safety is paramount for a lot of women, and your first comment was overly familiar and your second comment was about shooting (even if its just a game it might have been an idea to discuss something else).  Women on OLD can be very risk averse.  

I also don't think her comment was passive aggressive, I think it was wary and placatory while she made up her mind based on your next response.

Why do you do OLD if you don't like it so much?  Why not try to meet women another way?  Plenty of people do.

Just how someone can analyse a micro exchange in so much detail is beyond me.  

I think she sounds self absorbed. Some people aren’t good conversationalists and answer questions without being interested in the other person. That's the vibe I get from that convo. I was expressing curiosity about her, but she not only wasn't reciprocating, she went negative. "and???" is passive aggressive. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Redguitar36

[dramafreezone]

8 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

She does have a similar problem that that ex had: the effort was all one-sided. I as the man was making all the effort and getting little to no reciprocation just like in that relationship. This is a repeated pattern I see with the women I have encountered. There's the addage that you get out what you put in, but this does not seem to apply to women in the interactions I have had with them. What happens is you put in effort and get nothing in return. I don't know what to make of that. 

Quote

So why should these women make a greater effort with you?

[cleverusername]

3 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

I could have no responded to her rudeness and unmatched, but that’s just not healthy for men or women honestly. The men walk away with his tail between his legs feeling disrespected and the women come away thinking that it’s acceptable to be disrespectful to men because they are women and so she repeats the behavior with someone else. I really bet I wasn’t the first guy she dissed on online dating for no reason. She felt she could get away with it because she’s probably gotten away with it before. 

That's the thing though my man, you choose to feel disrespected. That is a choice. Because you are putting your value onto the opinion of someone else. She wants to be passive aggressive? Fine. Next woman. Just move on, why waste your energy on her? You know you're a good guy that she's missing out on, so who is the real loser here? I guarantee it won't be you if you just walked away or played it cool. Don't stoop to that level, ya feel me? 

Don't let these women control your emotions. Cool, calm, collected. That's strength. Ever seen James Bond lose his cool? No, that's what makes him cool. Confidence in himself.

[TheDarkMiller]

3 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

I could have no responded to her rudeness and unmatched, but that’s just not healthy for men or women honestly. The men walk away with his tail between his legs feeling disrespected and the women come away thinking that it’s acceptable to be disrespectful to men because they are women and so she repeats the behavior with someone else.

Women come away thinking that it's acceptable to be disrespectful to men? All she said was "okay???" for crying out loud, stop being so wet. If you think that's disrespectful, I'd hate to see how pathetic you get when someone actually disrespects you  like seriously dude come on.

You say not responding and un-matching would have been less healthy, so what you're saying is that what you did was healthy? In what way was it healthy? She probably didn't take any notice to your pathetic plea to be seen so decided to unmatch with this child that was whining. The only thing it helped was your ability to build on this this obvious distaste you have towards women.

[Redguitar36]

1 minute ago, dramafreezone said:

So why should these women make a greater effort with you?

If you're going to just go through the motions, why interact with the guy at all online? If you're going to sleep walk through the relationship, why not let him go and find someone who will appreciate him? You don't seem to see any other method to women's approach to dating other than "make as little effort as possible because there are plenty of guys who will take his place." That's a toxic way to approach your interactions with men. 

[dramafreezone]

8 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

If you're going to just go through the motions, why interact with the guy at all online? If you're going to sleep walk through the relationship, why not let him go and find someone who will appreciate him? You don't seem to see any other method to women's approach to dating other than "make as little effort as possible because there are plenty of guys who will take his place." That's a toxic way to approach your interactions with men. 

They're not approaching all men like this.  They're approaching you like this.

All guys are not in the same boat when it comes to women.  Any given woman has her top tier group, the ones in the middle and then the ones that barely make the cut.  You were in that last group for this woman.

Most women you meet are going to put you in either the middle or bottom group.  That's just the way it is.  Getting a date out of those women is just a matter of not turning her off and good timing.  You can work on the first part, the second part is just luck.  Or just wait for one that sees you as one of the top guys.

Edited June 1, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Not So Sad II]

3 minutes ago, Redguitar36 said:

I think she sounds self absorbed. Some people aren’t good conversationalists and answer questions without being interested in the other person. That's the vibe I get from that convo. I was expressing curiosity about her, but she not only wasn't reciprocating, she went negative. "and???" is passive aggressive. 

Yes, but she's not a night club hostess who is going to be in breach of contract if she doesn't respond in a certain way within a certain timeframe.  Its not her job.  She can respond as she wants, as can you.  OLD is so fake, it can come across as rude if you're not in the mood for it if someone you don't know expresses curiosity about you.  I actually realised that I just get really irritated with anyone on OLD as they haven't been introduced to me through friends or a shared interest.

I absolutely hate OLD.  I tried it for 3 weeks, and I could not think why I was submitting myself to that dross.  There are so many better ways to meet people, but they take longer.  OLD seems to be for people who want instant attention.  Some of the men are absolutely crazy (in fact most of them were in my short experience).  I messaged someone 5 or 6 times back and forth one day, seemed perfectly normal, the next morning he texted me at 5.45am, anyway, I replied briefly to say I was at work and would reply when I got home in the evening.  By the evening, he had reverse searched my profile picture, found my sm profile, and made various comments about how I was obviously a catfish looking for "validatory attention".

Lots of men wanted to come round to my house that very night after perhaps 3 messages.  One guy sent me a questionnaire of 6 questions I was supposed to answer.  Several men tried to get me to put in writing that I would have sex with them (as in "Are you saying you will have sex with me?" or talking constantly about sex when I asked them not to".  A surprising number of men like to ask where you live in the very first message, and when you give the general area, demand to know which street or exact location it is.  

I hope this explains why women tend to feel rather pressurised and a bit unsafe on OLD and tend to block and delete for anything that makes them uncomfortable.  OLD is full of men who get off on making women uncomfortable and maybe a little bit scared. 

Haven't even mentioned the flashers!  

I don't know any women that use OLD.  Maybe a few years ago it wasn't too bad, but it has a terrible reputation now.  

[Redguitar36]

3 minutes ago, TheDarkMiller said:

Women come away thinking that it's acceptable to be disrespectful to men? All she said was "okay???" for crying out loud, stop being so wet. If you think that's disrespectful, I'd hate to see how pathetic you get when someone actually disrespects you  like seriously dude come on.

You say not responding and un-matching would have been less healthy, so what you're saying is that what you did was healthy? In what way was it healthy? She probably didn't take any notice to your pathetic plea to be seen so decided to unmatch with this child that was whining. The only thing it helped was your ability to build on this this obvious distaste you have towards women.

I never said I have a distaste towards women. Those are your words and accusations. I do have a distaste for the double standards I see. Women who are rude and passive aggressive get to come on this forum and see people like yourself make excuses for them and justify their behavior. Women can make next to no effort in their conversations online, because the guy is just one of many suitors who's just their to entertain her, which makes so many women jaded. I would like to see more equality in the online dating scene so women aren't given a pass for making zero effort and there's more of a balance in terms of the effort they have to put in. 

[dramafreezone]

1 minute ago, Redguitar36 said:

I never said I have a distaste towards women. Those are your words and accusations. I do have a distaste for the double standards I see. Women who are rude and passive aggressive get to come on this forum and see people like yourself make excuses for them and justify their behavior. Women can make next to no effort in their conversations online, because the guy is just one of many suitors who's just their to entertain her, which makes so many women jaded. I would like to see more equality in the online dating scene so women aren't given a pass for making zero effort and there's more of a balance in terms of the effort they have to put in. 

It's not women's fault that they have the number of options that they do.

 

4 minutes ago, Not So Sad II said:

Lots of men wanted to come round to my house that very night after perhaps 3 messages.  One guy sent me a questionnaire of 6 questions I was supposed to answer.  Several men tried to get me to put in writing that I would have sex with them (as in "Are you saying you will have sex with me?" or talking constantly about sex when I asked them not to".  A surprising number of men like to ask where you live in the very first message, and when you give the general area, demand to know which street or exact location it is.  

 

Read this OP.  It's not all peaches and cream when it comes to dealing with guys.  I do sympathize with women in a way because I know how crazy men can be.  That's why you got blocked; if you'll flip out over a little initial conversation you'll probably turn into a psycho if you actually end up dating.

[TheDarkMiller]

1 minute ago, Redguitar36 said:

I never said I have a distaste towards women. Those are your words and accusations. I do have a distaste for the double standards I see. Women who are rude and passive aggressive get to come on this forum and see people like yourself make excuses for them and justify their behavior. Women can make next to no effort in their conversations online, because the guy is just one of many suitors who's just their to entertain her, which makes so many women jaded. I would like to see more equality in the online dating scene so women aren't given a pass for making zero effort and there's more of a balance in terms of the effort they have to put in. 

You say you have no distaste towards women but several commenters here have said how women also suffer with low effort attempts by men but you never address that, just the ones where women make low effort.

Every reply you address how women are problematic here, but do you know that there are loads of men that make no effort too or is that hard for you to believe? I've seen the quality of conversation some of my female friends have and the men make shocking effort, dull opening comments or messages about sex and/or their cock.

[Redguitar36]

3 minutes ago, TheDarkMiller said:

I've seen the quality of conversation some of my female friends have and the men make shocking effort, dull opening comments or messages about sex and/or their cock.

You're comparing saying hey and asking a woman about her life to flashing myself. Think about that. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Redguitar36

[Redguitar36]

11 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

It's not women's fault that they have the number of options that they do.

 

Read this OP.  It's not all peaches and cream when it comes to dealing with guys.  I do sympathize with women in a way because I know how crazy men can be.  That's why you got blocked; if you'll flip out over a little initial conversation you'll probably turn into a psycho if you actually end up dating.

I've never gone psycho with a woman I dated. What I have been is this: sitting at home alone on Xmas after I just got dumped by my parter who said two weeks earlier that we would spend that time together. A partner who I drove to airport, loaned money to buy work clothes, helped to find career counseling, listened when she had depression. I have never seen a relationship where I actually got back anything that I put in.

Of course, since I'm not a woman, I don't expect you to sympathize. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Redguitar36

[TheDarkMiller]

1 minute ago, Redguitar36 said:

You're comparing saying hey and asking a woman about her life to flashing myself. Think about that. 

Actually I was comparing it to three different things, low effort (you didn't do), dull opening messages (you did do, as everyone here has said), and something sexual (you didn't do). If you're going to break down my comment then at least don't pick and chose what I say in order to fit in with your argument.