I'm tired of being the one who makes any effort on OLD

[Happy Lemming]

48 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

I say to ditch OLD all together...

100% Agree... shower up and go meet some women in "real life" (provided there are no COVID-19 restrictions where you are)

OLD is not working for you.  It didn't work for me when I (briefly) tried it (many years ago).

My girlfriend told me she tried OLD and she hated it, as well.  She complained the guys she met were "nerdy", had no confidence and didn't know how to hold a conversation about anything.

Maybe you are more of an "in person" or "real life" type of individual... 

I say go out into the real world and try... what have you got to lose.

[poppyfields]

4 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

Was I at fault? I don't think so. This person was lazy and was making zero effort from the start, probably from lack of interest. 

There was no "start," the entire convo was in fact a "non-starter."

You never gave her a chance to develop interest!

And why do you put lol when you were annoyed?  Lol is to indicate playful laughing, not irritation.  

Anyway, it wasn't a match; with OLDing, try and take initial on-line chat with a grain of salt, have fun with it!

Had I received that snarky message from you, I wouldn't have unmatched, I would have tossed you a snark back!

Had some fun with it!

Learn to laugh a little man, not take life so seriously all the time, esp these initial on-line chats.

Might serve you better, women are not your enemy.. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

1 hour ago, Redguitar35 said:

Which totally perverts the whole dynamic. It's impossible to have decent interactions with that kind of gender imbalance, I agree with you there. 

Well, no, it's not impossible, but it does put many guys at a disadvantage.

1 hour ago, Redguitar35 said:

Don't agree here. Depending on what she said, I could ask her any number of questions based on her answer. If she said working, I could've asked her about her job, what she liked about it etc. 

We'll have to agree to disagree.  However, what is the pertinent takeaway here is that whatever her answer was, it's an opportunity to get her to talk more about her, not about you.

2 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

 You're correct, I didn't want to go anywhere near politics. I think politics has seeped too much into people's personal lives in this country. 

Not just in the United States, but right around the world.  Political discourse has suffered immensely as humanity becomes increasingly divided over social issues.  Society is changing rapidly and our diplomatic structures are buckling under the pressure. 

As divisions increase, so do the vocal proponents on both sides of the political spectrum.  This results in a vicious circle.  Unfortunately an undesirable circuit breaker is usually the only thing that will reset perspectives over what is truly important.

I certainly do sit on one side of the fence, however I do refrain from discussing political or religious matters as much as reasonably practicable.  However, I do maintain the importance of establishing where one sits with regards to these topics in the context of dating for the purposes of compatibility.

2 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

My intention wasn't to please or satisfy her, and it never will be. 

What was your intention, then?  What are you hoping to achieve on OLD?  What are you looking for?

2 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

I certainly didn't have a good opinion of her based on our conversation. That's all that matters to me. 

That's fine.  If that's how you feel, just move on with dignity and block her first.  If you're unable to keep your emotions in check and yoi feel the need to lash out when the interaction isn't going how you like, then you shouldn't be using on-line dating.

[Redguitar35]

 

7 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

What was your intention, then?  What are you hoping to achieve on OLD?  What are you looking for?

Simple: I want someone who will make an effort instead of just me making all the effort. It sounds like people think because men outnumber women that women should have to make none of the effort and MEN should do all the heavy lifting when it comes to dating, while women sit back passively and do the bare minimum. I don't like that arrangement. 

7 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

That's fine.  If that's how you feel, just move on with dignity and block her first.  If you're unable to keep your emotions in check and yoi feel the need to lash out when the interaction isn't going how you like, then you shouldn't be using on-line dating.

I don't see the problem with men expressing their feelings, emotions and views instead of just bottling it up or turning the other cheek. 

[Trail Blazer]

2 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

No.

Like I said, men have needs too. Not just women. They want to feel like they are being engaged with too. They don't want to feel like they are just an option. And this idea that they don't have feelings, emotions or don't have the right to be irritated or to express themselves is unrealistic in my view and totally not the way society should work. 

I don't disagree with this in general, but it's about how you engage with others to illicit the responses you desire that will ultimately determine your success.

The way I see it, you're viewing things through a lense of entitlement.  That's never a good frame of mind to start interacting with women with whom you wish to develop mutual feelings of attraction, with the intention for things to positively escalate.

You can't make a woman fulfill your needs.  You can't make a woman egage with you.  You also can't take your frustration out on women just because the women you choose to seek have options, and you're merely one of them.

As for expressing yourself, of course everyone has the right to be irritated.  However, if you choose to convey your irritation in a non-constructive manner, then you should reasonably expect for that interaction to not result in a net positive outcome.

It's one thing to stand up for what is right and what you believe in, but it's another thing entirely to react negatively every time life doesn't go your way.  In my experience, exercising a little decorum has never gone awry.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Trail Blazer

[remembethename]

Women have 10000 of options online they don't care about 1 guy.

[Redguitar35]

10 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

I don't disagree with this in general, but it's about how you engage with others to illicit the responses you desire that will ultimately determine your success.

The way I see it, you're viewing things through a lense of entitlement.  That's never a good frame of mind to start interacting with women with whom you wish to develop mutual feelings of attraction, with the intention for things to positively escalate.

You can't make a woman fulfill your needs.  You can't make a woman egage with you.  You also can't take your frustration out on women just because the women you choose to seek have options, and you're merely one of them.

I didn't question the fact that she has options. I questioned her behavior, which I would argue is what's actually entitled, not my response. She was making no good faith effort at conversation as if I was there merely to entertain her. I reject that. 

10 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

As for expressing yourself, of course everyone has the right to be irritated.  However, if you choose to convey your irritation in a non-constructive manner, then you should reasonably expect for that interaction to not result in a net positive outcome.

It's one thing to stand up for what is right and what you believe in, but it's another thing entirely to react negatively every time life doesn't go your way.  In my experience, exercising a little decorum has never gone awry.

I don't agree. I think our society puts women on a pedestal too often and so it's shocking when some guy actually voices disgust when he points out when a woman behaves poorly. You can't argue from the exchange I posted she was making a good faith effort to get to know me. Notice how she never asked one question about me or my interests. That's sick. 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Redguitar35 said:

I don't see the problem with men expressing their feelings, emotions and views instead of just bottling it up or turning the other cheek. 

But it doesn’t make sense to have such strong feelings, emotions, and views about a total stranger. If this is how you react to a complete nothingburger I can’t imagine how you’d react when actual adversity strikes.

[Redguitar35]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

But it doesn’t make sense to have such strong feelings, emotions, and views about a total stranger. If this is how you react to a complete nothingburger I can’t imagine how you’d react when actual adversity strikes.

Nobody likes to feel like someone is just looking through them, and I think a lot of guys feel like they get that treatment from women on online dating. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Redguitar35

[chillii]

 

lt all sounded pretty awkward from the start  really and tbh l wouldn't even know where to begin in a date site reply if someone asked me what am l up to these days, A LOT.

But at the same time yeah l remember back in the day l got some absolutely hopeless women replying or messaging me. l don't think it's anything to do with attention bc some of these messaged me and others wanted to keep talking , well what they called talking. l think it's as simple as some women have no personality just like some men have no personality.

l remember sayin to one chick l was fed up with it and she could block me l couldn't care less but l said,,,, my God this is just painful but l really liked your prof, why don't l just call. She said really , l thought we were doing really well, ahhh. Wtf , she said about 2 word each reply. Anyway , called her , same , nothing much there.

Edited June 1, 2021 by chillii

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

Was I at fault?

Yep.

But since you are seemingly just here to argue, rather than actually listen to the responses you're getting, you will probably continue to struggle with women.

You are the one with multiple threads lamenting your singlehood and complaining and going around in circles with posters and the women you meet online. Clearly your approach is not working for you. If you were fine with the way you conduct yourself, you wouldn't be here complaining about why women don't like you. 

You'd be out enjoying successful dates instead. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language substitution

[Redguitar35]

12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Yep.

But since you are seemingly just here to argue, rather than actually listen to the responses you're getting, you will probably continue to struggle with women.

You are the one with multiple threads lamenting your singlehood and complaining and going around in circles with posters and the women you meet online. Clearly your approach is not working for you. If you were fine with the way you conduct yourself, you wouldn't be here b*tching about why women don't like you. 

You'd be out enjoying successful dates instead. 

Actually I’m totally fine with how I handled it. I’d have felt bad if I hadn’t responded to her the way I did. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Redguitar35

[Not So Sad II]

9 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

I told her the freakin truth. She was lazy and condescending from the start. The convo was totally one sided. She couldn't be bothered to even say hey back in her initial reply. I think it's like Central just said, women get so much attention on these apps many of 'em make no effort most of the time. Why should they have to when they have a line of mere mortals begging for crumbs of her time. Sad. 

And you can tell all that from less than 10 comments on an online dating site?  So critical.  It makes me wonder if you actually go on dating sites to cause arguments with people.  Would you go up to someone in real life, demand that they reply and then be rude to them if they didn't say exactly what you wanted them to?

Why do you do online dating if it doesn't work for you?  Plenty of men meet women outside OLD, its not compulsary.

FWIW, I tried online dating for 3 weeks and found it terrible.  I don't think many women in my area use it at all now.  There are so many creepy men on it and plenty of others who lie about being single, their age, their employment status, etc - basically con artists.  

In one week alone, I had something like 9 men suggest they should come round to my house that night, I received sexually aggressive messages, one man who seemed normal, I texted a few times on day 1, on day 2 he sent me a text in the morning and I replied briefly saying that because it was Monday, I would be at work all day and unable to reply until I got home.  This wasn't good enough for him.  By the time I got home and checked my phone, he had reverse searched my image, found me on on social media, made comments about a few other photos that were visible online (accused me of enjoying male attention by posting 5 publicly visible photos, all of my face), imagine that I did OLD for male attention (really not flattering) and accused me of being obsessed with my career.  The men on there are crazy!  It made me feel very unsafe.

Anyway, your initial message seems to me a bit controlling, a bit boundary pushing and it would make me wary of you.  Why do men on OLD use phrases like "these days"?  That indicates that you already know the person.  So I suspect the woman was initially wary of you because you were trying to fake an intimacy that wasn't there.  The whole first message is inappropriate because you skip past the normal polite introduction and ask a very personal, loaded question straight away.  Your next comment just wasn't very interesting but mentioned a violent act which clearly made her uncomfortable and then whoosh!  You go straight into aggression and accusations to a person you have never even met, who hasn't responded in exactly the way you wanted her to.

Try meeting women through hobbies, or friends.  Is there a reason you can't do this?

[Trail Blazer]

4 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

Simple: I want someone who will make an effort instead of just me making all the effort. It sounds like people think because men outnumber women that women should have to make none of the effort and MEN should do all the heavy lifting when it comes to dating, while women sit back passively and do the bare minimum. I don't like that arrangement. 

You're so wrapped up in how you expect women to behave in OLD that you've lost your purpose for why you're on there in the first place.

In the initial courting stage, men have always had to put the most effort in.  In almost all the animal world, males do the chasing and women do the choosing.

It's just common sense to think that if men far outweigh the number of women, then women will have much greater choice and therefore your likelihood of being chosen is decreased by a factor relative to the disproportionate ratio.

Women owe you nothing, pal.  You don't just get to turn up with a profile and expect to scoop up everything in sea like a fishing trawler.  You're one man, with a rod, so pick the best bait or expect to get few bites.

4 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

I don't see the problem with men expressing their feelings, emotions and views instead of just bottling it up or turning the other cheek. 

I see a massive problem with men expressing their feelings, emotions and views if they are not done so in a respectful manner. 

This is where you're struggling to accept the consensus view.  Almost everyone here is telling you that you were rude. 

Why come here and ask for an opinion and do nothing but argue when said opinions have been parted?  I just don't get it 

[Trail Blazer]

4 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

I didn't question the fact that she has options. I questioned her behavior, which I would argue is what's actually entitled, not my response. She was making no good faith effort at conversation as if I was there merely to entertain her. I reject that. 

Her behavior?  Seriously?  She said, "Okay???" and that warrants you to lash out in an accusatory manner!?  She didn't really have a response other than the above.  And, although potentially flippant, it's a response which you just ignore because it's meaningless.  I just can't understand why you'd get so mad.

I agree that if she really wanted to, she could have asked you about the game you mentioned in reponse.   But, guess what?  It's a free country and she owes you nothing.  If you didn't pique her interest levels enough, why is that her problem?

Do you understand how many matches women get on OLD?  Jeez, man... even if she was quite keen on you, she was probably talking to 10 other guys, all of whom have piqued her interest.  It's your job to stand out from the crowd.  You are not her captive audience.

4 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

I don't agree. I think our society puts women on a pedestal too often and so it's shocking when some guy actually voices disgust when he points out when a woman behaves poorly. You can't argue from the exchange I posted she was making a good faith effort to get to know me. Notice how she never asked one question about me or my interests. That's sick. 

This is utterly ridiculous.  Stop swallowing red pill crap.  Both sexes have their own societal struggles.  Both have their own issues they must contend with in life and in the dating world.

I can't argue that she made effort to get to know you because obviously she didn't.  And, obviously that is what's triggering you so badly.  And, that is why you need to get off OLD until you can manage your anger and sense of entitlement.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Trail Blazer

[basil67]

I'm going to say that the question "Hey there. What are you doing with your life these days?" isn't the right opener for someone you've never met.  "These days" imply that there were old days between you.    It's exactly the phrase one could use when reconnecting with someone you haven't seen for three years, but not for someone you've never met.   Instead, you should open with something which makes sense in the context. 

Of course, I completely understand that if someone gives no clues as to their interests on a dating site (nothing in the description and no hints in the photos) it can be hard to kick off conversation in a meaningful way.  But if there's no clues, then there's probably no interests and they are probably dull and you should pass on them.  

Did she have any clues in her profile or photos?   

Edited June 1, 2021 by basil67

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

Actually I’m totally fine with how I handled it. I’d have felt bad if I hadn’t responded to her the way I did. 

Then why did you bother asking us if you were at fault?

These threads seem to be less about looking for advice and more about your desire for an audience to complain. 

[Not So Sad II]

OK, I'm going to say this again because no-one else is picking up on it, and because someone complained about my post saying it before and it got deleted, so I'll be as gentle as possible.

In your second message, you said "Mot of the ones I like are first person shooters".  She replied "OK".  Now most women know that that "OK" from her was a coded message for saying "Cool it, this is a bit weird".  Talking about "first person shooting" is a big no.  Many women rightly have red flags for men on internet dating, because of all the wierdos on there, and talking about "shooters" is almost certainly one of them.  No woman wants to hear references to something like that in only their second message from a total stranger.  You creeped her out.  Added to the first overly familiar message and then your third accusatory message, why would she do anything but block you? 

I'm sure you're aware of that though.  

Complain or block away - times really are sexist still if women cannot say what make them feel uncomfortable.

[basil67]

I agree.  With the exception of meeting someone at a gaming expo/fan website, if the first thing I learned about them is that they like first person shooter games, I'd feel 

[Redguitar35]

2 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

You're so wrapped up in how you expect women to behave in OLD that you've lost your purpose for why you're on there in the first place.

In the initial courting stage, men have always had to put the most effort in.  In almost all the animal world, males do the chasing and women do the choosing.

This isn’t “the animal world”.  It’s a society where there are manners and she violated that with her condescending reply and lack of effort.

Quote

It's just common sense to think that if men far outweigh the number of women, then women will have much greater choice and therefore your likelihood of being chosen is decreased by a factor relative to the disproportionate ratio.

Women owe you nothing, pal.  You don't just get to turn up with a profile and expect to scoop up everything in sea like a fishing trawler.  You're one man, with a rod, so pick the best bait or expect to get few bites.

Again we disagree philosophically. The fact she is one of 8 billion people on the planet goes both ways. That means that men are not here exclusively for women’s entertainment and men should not carry 100 percent of the conversation.  A lot of these women reply  think that’s the way it should work because they are a woman and it’s convenient for them. They like the idea of being able to sit back, paint their nails and watch men make all the effort like some king watching the parade of fools come into his court and perform tricks to entertain the king. We’ve already talk about how the gender imbalance on these apps creates this weird dynamic. If she didn’t want to get to know me then she should not have matched or replied. She was just wasting both of our time by replying when she clearly had no interest in carrying her end of the conversation so calling her out on that behavior  is fair game.

Quote

I see a massive problem with men expressing their feelings, emotions and views if they are not done so in a respectful manner. 

This is where you're struggling to accept the consensus view.  Almost everyone here is telling you that you were rude. 
 

Good. That was the intention. Her saying okay with three question marks wasn’t just her failing to return the serve, it was extremely condescending. Women do not have the right to disrespect men in that way with zero recourse. I’m satisfied with the way I responded because she knows I will not tolerate that type of disrespect. 

Quote

Why come here and ask for an opinion and do nothing but argue when said opinions have been parted?  I just don't get it 

I can post whatever I like that is within the rules and terms of service. This relates to dating and this is a dating forum.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Redguitar35

[Redguitar35]

46 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I agree.  With the exception of meeting someone at a gaming expo/fan website, if the first thing I learned about them is that they like first person shooter games, I'd feel 

It’s a genre of video games just like role-playing games that she likes. It was no more controversial than the controversial political subject that she brought up and I chose not to engage about.

[Redguitar35]

2 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Her behavior?  Seriously?  She said, "Okay???" and that warrants you to lash out in an accusatory manner!?  She didn't really have a response other than the above.  And, although potentially flippant, it's a response which you just ignore because it's meaningless.  I just can't understand why you'd get so mad.

Her saying okay with three question marks was rude and condescending. How’s that any way to treat a guy who’s just trying to make a conversation with you. Her ego is out of control.

Quote

I agree that if she really wanted to, she could have asked you about the game you mentioned in reponse.   But, guess what?  It's a free country and she owes you nothing.  If you didn't pique her interest levels enough, why is that her problem?

If she didn’t want to get to know me then she should not have matched or replied. She was just wasting both of our time by replying when she clearly had no interest in carrying her end of the conversation so calling on that silliness is fair game.

Quote

Do you understand how many matches women get on OLD?  Jeez, man... even if she was quite keen on you, she was probably talking to 10 other guys, all of whom have piqued her interest.  It's your job to stand out from the crowd.  You are not her captive audience.

again, women are not the only ones with issues and desires and requirements when it comes to engaging with the opposite sex. Men want to feel like they were being engaged with too, not like they are just an option. Not just women. You seem to think that’s not a legitimate expectation.

Quote

This is utterly ridiculous.  Stop swallowing red pill crap.  Both sexes have their own societal struggles.  Both have their own issues they must contend with in life and in the dating world.

Women having there pick of the litter is not a struggle.  It’s a privilege and one that men do not have.

Quote

I can't argue that she made effort to get to know you because obviously she didn't.  And, obviously that is what's triggering you so badly.  And, that is why you need to get off OLD until you can manage your anger and sense of entitlement.

I’m not angry. I’m actually pretty happy with how I reacted in the conversation. She behaved with disrespect and I conveyed that wasn’t acceptable to me. 

[Fletch Lives]

Dating is tough, requires lots of patience.

[TheDarkMiller]

15 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

Matched with someone and of course I'm the one who initiated the conversation:

ME: "Hey there. What are you doing with your life these days?"

HER: "These days? Binging [x role playing game] and screaming about [x political issue]."

ME: "Ah, I haven't played that one. Most of the ones I like are first persons shooters."

HER: "Okay???"

ME: "You could have asked what I'm doing with my life these days. But I guess that would require some effort lol."

HER: [Unmatched]

Was I at fault? I don't think so. This person was lazy and was making zero effort from the start, probably from lack of interest. I feel like these apps are filled with lazy people who are just swiping with zero intentions. 

Your opening message was so dry and not engaging at all. I don't know anyone who would ask a stranger about their week/life the way you did, truth be told, it was really dull, that's something you say to friends, family, people you already know, and even then it's a dull question. If you wanted to ask about her life/day/week, put a spin on it, something like "what's been the highlight of your week so far?", straight away that's a more positive question than how's your life these days.

Was there anything in her bio or pictures that you could have asked about? That shows you paid attention to her profile as most men on dating sites have a habit of saying either "hey", "what's going on" or "how's your life", heck, would you rather a girl message you one of those phrases as an opening message or a message about a picture in your profile or something you said in your bio? Obviously answer is the latter surely.

When she mentioned the video game, you could have asked something about that game even if you haven't played it, or when she mentioned politics, you could have made a joke about the famous phrase of never discussing politics or religion. You basically brought a conclusion to the conversation.

You seem to have a script wrote in your mind in how these conversations play out and when they don't play the way you expect, you blame them. The fact is that there's over 7 billion people on the planet, do you really expect every person to show massive amounts of interest/engagement with you? Maybe since she matched with you she matched with a guy she thought was cuter, maybe she was cooking but still wanted to show interest so replied even though she was busy. If a woman replies, there's some interest from her part. 

Altogether between you and her, there were 5 interactions, where the 5th one was an unattractive message (doesn't matter if you think it was true/needed to be said), no wonder she unmatched. You showcased neediness by reacting to not getting what you wanted from the conversation, and that you have expectations from someone who is still a stranger. The fact you needed to write a thread about this conversation with this woman shows you were probably already invested in her.

If thoughtful conversation and equal commitment to conversing means so much to you, state that in your profile.

Earlier today I unmatched with a woman that put low effort on continuously for 16 messages. Did I speak to her the way you did? No. Why? Because it literally does nothing but make the sender look like an invested a**h*** who did t get what they wanted.

Maybe speak to women on dating apps with the mindset that if she sends dull replies, or doesn't even reply at all, then it doesn't matter, because it doesn't matter. You're both strangers. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by TheDarkMiller

[introverted1]

5 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

This is where you're struggling to accept the consensus view.  Almost everyone here is telling you that you were rude. 

Why come here and ask for an opinion and do nothing but argue when said opinions have been parted?  I just don't get it 

This.

Not a single person has agreed with your response, OP.  So you can either continue to be invested in your righteousness and remain dateless, OR you can take a good look at how your own behaviors are contributing to your lack of dating success and make changes accordingly.