She wants to be friends first? What should I do?

[James]

Hey guys, 

I've met a girl online (Fb) and after of couple of weeks of texting, I have set up a date with her. I'm 34 years old and she is 28. 

First date: We went for a walk in the park and cup of coffe. Just a light casual meeting which lasted about hour. We've talked about different topics, just to break the ice. That one hour lasted like 10 minutes. 
 

Second date: I've suggested a night out and I have arranged everything. A day before the date, she cancelled the night out calling me a 'Friend' with a lame excuse that she have to visit her cousin, and suggested another walk in the park on the sun, mainly due to this pandemic situation. Just like the first date, we shook hands like business partners and I was hoping for a hug at least. However, we got talking about out life goals, and she started asking questions about my past relationships etc. She is extremely reserved and pretty tensed when she's talking. Like she has big GIANT walls around her and I cannot approach her at all. She said that recently (4 months ago) she got out of 1 year relationship that didn't work out, and I've changed the subject cause I don't want to talk about past relationships on out second date. 
She said that she sees me as a friend, cause she doesn't know me yet. Also, she keeps checking her phone, which is quite rude. 
 

Third date: Finally, a night out with her. Again, she wanted to shook my hand but I've hug her instead. Again, we talked about different topics, and she stated that she doesn't know what she wants at this moment, and she is not sure whether she is emotionally available, emphasing that everything is unpredictable in life, meaning she might get back together with her ex. But in our previous convo, she stated that she done with him. On all her questions, I've answered concretely, cause I know what I want in life. On the other hand, she answered all her questions half way in a rather confusing manner. 
 

Long story short, she stated again that she wants to be friends first and see what happens. Wtf? I have never had girl for friend in my life, and I have never had a weird ass date like this. 
 

Let's be friends first usually means and 'I don't like you, but I would like to keep you as an option' if all my boats sink? I mean why the hell did she went out on a date with me if she didn't find me attractive in a first place? Is she crazy? 
 

At the end of the night, I gave her a ride home, and asked her what's your plan for the upcoming weekend? She said she'll be out of town with her girlfriends for three days, just to blow off some steam. She said keep in touch, no kiss on the cheek, no hug, just a bloody handshake, again. 
 

Guys, should I forget about her and move on?
Obviously, she doesn't like me, and went on a date just to boost her ego. I don't believe in 'friends first' thing and I believe I'm gonna waste my time with her, and end up like a donkey, friendzoned? 
 

Anything similar happened to you? What's your thoughts? 
 

Thank you! 

[norealusername]

I think your gut feelings are correct. I would just move on and forget her. Everything points to her not being interested. Let her find another guy to be friends with.

[elaine567]

16 minutes ago, James said:

She said that recently (4 months ago) she got out of 1 year relationship that didn't work ou

17 minutes ago, James said:

she stated that she doesn't know what she wants at this moment, and she is not sure whether she is emotionally available, emphasing that everything is unpredictable in life, meaning she might get back together with her ex.

She is not over her ex and I wouldn't be surprised if the situation changed between your first and third dates. ie she is back in contact with him or she has decided she wants to be back in contact. with him.
Unless there is a cultural reason for the shaking of hands, i guess she feels like going on a date with you is like she is cheating on him hence the distance she has created on your dates.

Dating people who are just out of a relationship is usually a waste of time.
They are either looking to sow some wild oats, or they are still so hung up on their ex, they are in no position to date anyone.

[ExpatInItaly]

43 minutes ago, James said:

Let's be friends first usually means and 'I don't like you, but I would like to keep you as an option' if all my boats sink? I mean why the hell did she went out on a date with me if she didn't find me attractive in a first place? Is she crazy? 

No, she's rebounding. 

I would not ask her out again. She doesn't appear to be in the right headspace for dating. 

[dramafreezone]

You are already friendzoned, so don't worry about that.  Hand shaking, forget that.

You should not have gone out with her for a second date after she said friend. 

"Thanks but I'm not looking for another friend.  I like you but if you're looking for a friendship this isn't going to work.  Let me know if you change you mind, otherwise I wish you the best."

When you go along with being her friend (and thus relegate yourself to the friendzone), like someone else said, you're in a reserve role, which she may see as a good role for you.  But the unintended consequence is that she loses respect for you.    She went out with you because she did at least determined that you met the minimum requirements for a sexual relationship, but you lowered her attraction by accepting this subserviant role in the friendzone.

Think about what the friendzone represents.  She knows you want her sexually.  She no longer sees you sexually, but she still wants your attention.  So in the friendzone she gets all of what she wants and you get none of what you want.  That sound like a deal that you want to sign up for?  No?  Then walk away.

Edited May 6, 2021 by dramafreezone

[salparadise]

1 hour ago, James said:

Guys, should I forget about her and move on?
Obviously, she doesn't like me, and went on a date just to boost her ego. I don't believe in 'friends first' thing and I believe I'm gonna waste my time with her, and end up like a donkey, friendzoned? 

^Yup, she's a time waster. And not only that, but your sincerity and intention. Don't contact her again. If she contacts you tell her that you're not interested in "friends," whatever that means to her. In the future, I'd make it a policy to take the nearest exit at the first mention of that word. The translation is, you treat me like a girlfriend by taking me out and giving me lots of that kind of attention, but it's a one-way deal cuz I ain't giving nothing back.

I don't believe in it either––no one with an ounce of common sense does.. I see it all the time on women's profiles, and it's an instant left swipe. It's always a dead end. It's the same thing as saying, "I'm afraid to be vulnerable so I'm closed off and shut down, but I'd enjoy having a bunch of guys (orbiters) vying for my time and attention to fill the void where my self-esteem should be." 

Man, women can be kookie as hell when it comes to dating, and OLD is a big collection of the most extreme. Women are aways complaining about the men, and they do have plenty of reasons and crazy examples, but as a man you gotta look out for yourself. Learn to spot BSC a mile away. Don't let them waste your time and good intention, lest you become as jaded as I am. 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by salparadise

[James]

Guys, 

Thank you so much for your input. I appreciate a lot for taking the time to answer my question. 
 

So here is the deal. She'll go out with her friends this weekend, or maybe she lying and she'll spent the weekend with her ex. Anyhow, after the weekend ends, I'm 110% sure she'll text me again.
Should I ignore her text completely and don't bother responding at all? Should I go NC and disappear from the face of earth? Or should I act beta and explain myself that if she's looking for a friend instead of texting me, she can get a dog or a cat. We are on a completely different planets right now. 

I mean, I really felt like a doormat after date three was over. I've invested a lot of time to groom myself just to look perfect, and all I've got is nothing. 
 

Obviously there is no chemistry between us, or if there is any, she is blocking it with her cold and indecisive 'I don't know where I'm right know' attitude. 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by James

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, James said:

Or should I act beta and explain myself that if she's looking for a friend instead of texting me, she can get a dog or a cat.

Where did you learn it was "beta" to communicate like an adult? 

Just tell her you are looking for different things so it's best to leave it here. There's no need to be snarky or immature about it. 

[salparadise]

1 hour ago, James said:

Or should I act beta and explain...

Don't waste any words on her. No response would be fine and appropriate, or a simple "not interested." She's aware of what she's doing. 

I wonder why women such as this feel so entitled, knowing full well that they're wasting your time?

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, salparadise said:

Don't waste any words on her. No response would be fine and appropriate, or a simple "not interested." She's aware of what she's doing. 

I wonder why women such as this feel so entitled, knowing full well that they're wasting your time?

I don't think she is entitled, she is hurt and trying to function normally by dating. But it is not really working.
Give her time and it may work, IF she finds the OP attractive but most guys nowadays don't want to bother, as sex is the be all and end all...
I do think that this "friends first" mentality is born out of the modern day culture that dictates women should put out by the third date.
In order to protect themselves, women who feel pressurised to conform against their better judgement, need to introduce distance and "friends first" does exactly that. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, James said:

 maybe she lying and she'll spent the weekend with her ex. .

 should I act beta and explain myself that if she's looking for a friend instead of texting me, she can get a dog or a cat. .

 I've invested a lot of time to groom myself just to look perfect, and all I've got is nothing. ,

she is blocking it with her cold and indecisive.

Just delete and block her and don't bother asking her out again.

Unfortunately even if a couple of dates seem to go well, you're both talking to and meeting others.

She is just not that interested.

It would help to step away from the pickup artist jargon and horrible advice. That could be precisely what is turning women off about you.

Your grooming budget is your problem and she's not secretly attracted but throwing up a "shield" to keep you out.

Just move forward.

[Stupidkupid]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Where did you learn it was "beta" to communicate like an adult? 

Just tell her you are looking for different things so it's best to leave it here. There's no need to be snarky or immature about it. 

I know, right? 

[prince0fgame]

4 hours ago, James said:

Guys, 

Thank you so much for your input. I appreciate a lot for taking the time to answer my question. 
 

So here is the deal. She'll go out with her friends this weekend, or maybe she lying and she'll spent the weekend with her ex. Anyhow, after the weekend ends, I'm 110% sure she'll text me again.
Should I ignore her text completely and don't bother responding at all? Should I go NC and disappear from the face of earth?

I mean, I really felt like a doormat after date three was over. I've invested a lot of time to groom myself just to look perfect, and all I've got is nothing. 
 

Obviously there is no chemistry between us, or if there is any, she is blocking it with her cold and indecisive 'I don't know where I'm right know' attitude. 

 

 

You are part of her ego-validation ecosystem. That's the role that you are serving right now. Some guys like that role. It gives them a sense of purpose. It gives them hope. But self-respecting guys hate that role. 

"Or should I act beta and explain myself that if she's looking for a friend instead of texting me, she can get a dog or a cat. We are on a completely different planets right now. "

I don't think you know what beta means bro, lol. Being beta means accepting subpar behavior. Being alpha means speaking your truth. You should reverse your thinking on this one. 

My question to you is, do you have your OWN eco-system? Or is she the only one? From my vantage point, it looks like you are a planet revolving around her. A planet cannot have an ecosystem. You have to be the sun. 

I once dated a woman where as soon as we broke up, some guy from her ecosystem immediately popped up. I was shocked how fast she had moved on, lol. And I wondered how she had time to groom him. One day I saw her social media and realized she had an entire ecosystem of guys serving all kinds of purposes from offering her emotional support, validating her ego, entertaining her, etc. And these guys were doing that while I was having sex with her every single day. I actually kinda felt bad for them.

Anyway, I stole a page from her book and went out and got my own ecosystem. But instead of going on tinder or the bars/clubs, I started doing yoga, going to mma/boxing classes, rock climbing, volunteer work, etc. 

This was when I discovered the REAL romance game. Sexual tension is something that automatically exists between men and women. There is nothing special you have to do. You just have to EXIST next to women. 

And when two people are on the same WAVELENGTH -> they link up.

This is why I don't recommend dating apps and bars/clubs. The chances of finding a woman on your wavelength is extremely low in those environments. 

After awhile I discovered another key to romance. Sometimes the Universe throws me more than 1 woman who is on my wavelength. Sometimes I have a connection with 3 women all at once. It opened my eyes to abundance. Guys who do dating apps think there is only 1 woman out there for them. So when they talk to 1 woman, they do everything they can to make it work, even if there is no chemistry. 

After awhile I developed my own eco-system. I started to come from the frame of "infinite validation." 

My "game" completely calibrated itself where everything thing I did came from the right frame. I was no longer acting needy or over-compensating (two of the biggest attraction killers). I started to self-express rather than trying to impress women. In fact, I stopped caring about validation altogether. The most validated people have no need for it, ironically. 

When you have abundance, everything you do works. When you don't have abundance, nothing you do works. That's attraction in a nutshell. 

So my advice would be to go out and develop some hobbies that have women in it. Develop an ecosystem. It will fix your frame through the process of osmosis. Just simply being around women will make you less needy. You will see how they operate in broad daylight and nothing they do will throw you off again. You won't have weird misconceptions about "alpha vs beta."

I'm not going to give you any "game" or "tactics". I'm just going to tell you the road is having an abundant life. That will fix everything. Sort of like actually eating vegetables (having a life) vs taking a vitamin pill (learning tactics). 

GAME is actually the totality of the man. Your presence is what attracts women, not what you do or say or any of that silliness. 

It's obvious that she is not sexually/romantically attracted to your presence. And there's nothing anyone here can tell you to change that. If you had an ecosystem, you would have already moved on and this thread would not exist. 

Good luck buddy. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by prince0fgame

[ShyViolet]

Everything that this girl has said and done shows that she is not interested in you.  So why would you even consider talking to her further?  Leave this woman alone, don't talk to her anymore, and just move on.

[d0nnivain]

If somebody over the age of 17 says they want to be friends first it's your cue to understand that they are immature & haven't figured out how to enforce their own boundaries.  What they really mean is that they want to get to know somebody before falling into bed with them.  They do not realize that adults get to know each other by going on dates, which are scheduled meetings where 2 people get to know each other but which have romantic underpinnings & include physical touch -- hugs & kisses -- even if they do not lead immediately to sex.  

The woman you are talking about is no where near ready to date.  When she tells you she doesn't know what she wants or that she doesn't know if she's emotionally available right now, you need to believe her.  At minimum she's still hung up on the EX.  Coupled with that you don't float her boat well enough to make her forget about him.  Given the handshakes, the seeming distaste for physical intimacy & her overall demeanor, she's wasting your time, especially if you are looking for a GF. 

If you want to be her friend meaning you are happy to talk to her when she calls you, carry on  Do not pursue her.  Certainly don't spend the energy or money to take her on a date  

Going forward when you meet somebody who says "friends first" you immediately have to call them on that statement & clarify.  You  have to find out if they are trying to say they don't do casual sex, which is fine, or that the genuinely do not feel chemistry / sex appeal for you & are friendzoning you.  Point out that school is over & there is no opportunity in the adult world for people to spend time together getting to know one another over a long period of time other that going on dates.  

[norealusername]

It's tempting to blow up at her and be rude but probably not the best way to handle it. Just stop talking to her and don't respond if she contacts you. The silence may bother her more than telling her off.

[Marc878]

You are just a rebound wanting something that isn’t there.

Why are you keeping yourself in this?

[smackie9]

I didn't read your post, the title says it all....no, that's a big thumbs down. That says, uncertainty, unobtainable, waste of energy.

[SumGuy]

14 hours ago, James said:

...I mean, I really felt like a doormat after date three was over. I've invested a lot of time to groom myself just to look perfect, and all I've got is nothing. ...

If that is how you see it, don't pursue her.

[Lotsgoingon]

Dude, you don't understand the nature of dating. You date to see IF you are interested in someone. Not just mildly interested, but STRONGLY interested.

You had the opposite experience. Here you write:

She is extremely reserved and pretty tensed when she's talking. Like she has big GIANT walls around her and I cannot approach her at all. She said that recently (4 months ago) she got out of 1 year relationship that didn't work out, and I've changed the subject cause I don't want to talk about past relationships on out second date.

There are about ten pieces of information here that say shake her hand and wish her well and move on.

Forget what SHE thinks, YOU are the one who should be running for the hills. Run dude. You and she are not compatible. Anyone with walls up.  Run!

Why are you so confused about this?

[dramafreezone]

17 hours ago, James said:

Guys, 

Thank you so much for your input. I appreciate a lot for taking the time to answer my question. 
 

So here is the deal. She'll go out with her friends this weekend, or maybe she lying and she'll spent the weekend with her ex. Anyhow, after the weekend ends, I'm 110% sure she'll text me again.
Should I ignore her text completely and don't bother responding at all? Should I go NC and disappear from the face of earth? Or should I act beta and explain myself that if she's looking for a friend instead of texting me, she can get a dog or a cat. We are on a completely different planets right now. 

I mean, I really felt like a doormat after date three was over. I've invested a lot of time to groom myself just to look perfect, and all I've got is nothing. 
 

Obviously there is no chemistry between us, or if there is any, she is blocking it with her cold and indecisive 'I don't know where I'm right know' attitude. 

 

 

How is telling her exactly what you want "beta?"  It's the opposite to me.   You don't have to be rude about it though, or act angry/indignant.  You two just want different things.

Being passive aggressive by ignoring/blocking her is beta if anything.

Edited May 8, 2021 by dramafreezone

[basil67]

While you could just ignore or block her, respectfully telling her your reasons for moving on is assertive and positive.   It shows that you are a good man with strong boundaries.