Kupemon Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 Hello there, The story is, that I broke up with my first ever girlfriend a month ago after two years of relationship and it did hit me hard. She was really toxic, full of conflict and REALLY self centered. Everything was always about her. She never appreciated my every attempt to make her happy. I constantly must have thought about what I was saying because every misinterpreted sentence was treated as an attack. She would just straight up reject a freaking gift if she didn't like it! We argued constantly but after every arguement she would apologize and we would move on. And believe me, she knew how to say stuff to really hurt you. I was so done with it that I really started to think about breaking up. It was in January. After one fight I just said that I needed some time, because my mom is battling liver cancer and I really couldn't bear constant fighting that she was bringing. I broke up with her soon after that. She took it REALLY bad. I still have nightmares from that day - the look of her crying face is haunting me every day. After I broke up I called her three days later and said that we can try again, but she has to change a few things inside her if she wants to be with me. She suggested that I should make a list of things that she should fix in herself, so I did that. There was 37 points on that list. Every point was a bad thing that she has done to me. We met up at her place a week later. I wasn't mean to her nor was I happy to see her. I was neutral. I thought that if I threw myself in her arms that day, then it would all be for nothing. That she wouldn't take it seriously and go back to being toxic. When I tried to say what I meant on every point, she would just argue that I'm wrong and take things out of context. Arguement started as always. When I was leaving she asked if I want to ser her next week, I replied with "I don't know". The next day she wouldn't talk to me. She said that she hated me and was done with me, even though the day before she loved me and was determined to fight for me. For the next two weeks I tried to reason with her but she always responded with hate. That I was bugging her. And THAT hit me hard. How can you stop loving someone in one day? Like these two years never happened? I know I was the one that brought the breakup, but ultimately I have given her a 100th chance. She just turned around and ran away as soon as she's heard that she has to change. You might ask that she maybe had a reason, that there was something wrong with me also. I'm not perfect and I know that, but everytime she needed me, I was there. I changed my bad habits because of her and she never appreciated it. She called, I drove - within reason obviously. Going for a walk after work, even though I was busy that day? Yup. She wanted to talk because she was bored? Sure, 5-7 times a day. It was tiring but I was doing it for her (I knew she did not have many friends). That was another reason to argue, because she was calling me like crazy and I was not. But honestly, who would? Her biggest reason to hate me was that I was not supportive. She told me few times that she thought she had a depression because her boss yelled at her and she wanted to kill herself. She really considered killing herself, because stupid things like that. Things that could be changed if she tried. As I said, my mom is battling cancer so i couldn't believe what she was saying. People fight for their lives and she would throw away hers because of such things?! I always encouraged her to go see a doctor, but she never would. She knew she didn't have depression and later told me that. She was just trying to see how I would react. I hated being with her when I was with her, and now I hate living without her. I was crying myself to sleep for two weeks, because I regretted what I've done. It hurts me that I hurt her, even though she was the bad guy in this relationship! I thought she cared for me and would change those mean and hurtful aspects of her so we could be finally happy, but she wouldn't. I miss her now and I just feel like such a fool. Sometime later I couldn't take it so I called her to settle things. I threw everything that bugged me at her. I asked why couldn't she fight for me like I fought for her many times, and she replied with "Because when we met last time you wouldn't look me in the eyes and wouldn't let me touch and hug you". I truly was speechless. She also told me that I am the only man in the world she could get back to, but not right now. What does that even mean? Is she just trying to leave an open door if her future relationship doesn't work out? That's really horrible thing to say, after I told her that if she doesn't want us back, then we should go for absolute NC. If she was so bad, then why am I feeling so bad you say? Because there were also good times. I miss her saying that she loves me, I miss her smiling face. I miss those calls that were so annoying back then. I feel like I've wasted my chance for love. I'm 26 years old guy (and so is she) and I'm afraid that I won't find real love anymore, because I'm shy and inexperienced (she was my first girlfriend after all). I just wanted to share that, because it's eating me from the inside. Thanks for reading.
glows Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) It's unrealistic to expect her to change 37 deep-seated issues within herself to your liking just because you have feelings for her. You communicated your concerns and she's not able to see things from your point of view. Regularly, couples do realize that they are incompatible. Let go and stop expecting her to be someone she's not. You did the right thing. Now you just need more time to recoup and put yourself back together again. More than ever I'm sure you're wishing you had someone who is more emotionally stable when it comes to rough times and challenges. That is just not her for whatever reason. Wrong person, perhaps wrong timing. You have more than enough on your plate right now. Having lost family to cancer, I am very sorry to hear about your mum's illness. Have you tried to find counselling services or support dealing with stress/grief? Edited May 5, 2021 by glows 1
basil67 Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 She asked how to fix things and you gave her a 37 point list of all the things she's done wrong in the past. How is she supposed to fix things which happened in the past? And why were you hanging on to all these old grievances? Frankly, a list like this is like a punch in the gut and could easily undo someone's love. When someone asks you how they can fix things, you discuss what positive changes can be made going forward. For example, "I need you to get professional help for your mental health", "I feel hurt when I take time choosing a gift and it's bluntly rejected", "I feel like I miss the mark on how to make you happy and would like to talk this through" etc etc. Note that I've worded all of this without placing blame. 1
Author Kupemon Posted May 5, 2021 Author Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) The list was made because she asked me to do that specifically. All the things that she was doing that made me hurt, so it would never happen again. I wasn't clinging to them and I would never talk about stuff from the past when we had an arguement or something. Those were things like comparing me to her exes constantly, not seeing my efforts etc. These were not things that I wanted to change in her as a person - her behavior or likings. I loved her the way she was, but couldn't take constant humiliation. That's where thoughts about breaking up came from originally. Edited May 5, 2021 by Kupemon New things added
glows Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 19 minutes ago, Kupemon said: The list was made because she asked me to do that specifically. All the things that she was doing that made me hurt, so it would never happen again. I wasn't clinging to them and I would never talk about stuff from the past when we had an arguement or something. Those were things like comparing me to her exes constantly, not seeing my efforts etc. These were not things that I wanted to change in her as a person - her behavior or likings. I loved her the way she was, but couldn't take constant humiliation. That's where thoughts about breaking up came from originally. You shouldn't have to list these. They're very, very basic requirements in a mutually respectful relationship. No interaction should be full of comparisons, lack of gratitude or humiliating. This does beg the question - why did you put up with this for the period that you did or even for one second tell yourself that it was acceptable in any way? Half the problem is you staying for that kind of treatment from a partner. As hard as it is you'll have to acknowledge that if you want to genuinely move forward (and not make the same mistakes with future partners down the road). No one is perfect and we all make mistakes. It's the delusional and the arrogant who believe that they're perfect.. so take a moment to reflect. You deserve a lot better than what this relationship offered you. The big question is why didn't you see it from the start? You can start fresh and on a new slate after much healing. All is not lost but definitely do put this behind you.
ExpatInItaly Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 35 minutes ago, Kupemon said: I loved her the way she was No, you don't. And with good reason, it seems. The way she is someone who is evidently very emotionally unstable, rude and erratic. Do you love that? Because that is very much part of who she is, OP. You need to grasp that. When you present your partner a list of 37 things they've done wrong, the relaitonship is already over. A healthy relationship doesn't include multiple instances of disrespect and pain. She is a mess, yes, but there is something dysfunctional in you too for tolerating this for so long. End this, and realize you could do with some extended healing and introspection as to why you were this enmeshed in the chaos. 26 is young. You have plenty of time to get to an emotionally-healthy place and eventually meet a woman who is capable of a mature, committed relaitonship. This one was not that woman. 4
Author Kupemon Posted May 5, 2021 Author Posted May 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: No, you don't. And with good reason, it seems. The way she is someone who is evidently very emotionally unstable, rude and erratic. Do you love that? Because that is very much part of who she is, OP. You need to grasp that. When you present your partner a list of 37 things they've done wrong, the relaitonship is already over. A healthy relationship doesn't include multiple instances of disrespect and pain. She is a mess, yes, but there is something dysfunctional in you too for tolerating this for so long. End this, and realize you could do with some extended healing and introspection as to why you were this enmeshed in the chaos. 26 is young. You have plenty of time to get to an emotionally-healthy place and eventually meet a woman who is capable of a mature, committed relaitonship. This one was not that woman. Never thought that being cool-headed, forgiving and patient would ever get me a sticker of being dysfunctional, but I know you are right. I have some work to do with myself as well.
ExpatInItaly Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Kupemon said: Never thought that being cool-headed, forgiving and patient would ever get me a sticker of being dysfunctional, but I know you are right. I have some work to do with myself as well. The dysfunctional element is confusing patient and forgiving with having poor personal boundaries in a relaitonship. There's a significant difference between patience and toxic attachment to someone who mistreats you. You would be wise to identify where your value is and why you let her steamroll right over it. So while you do not appear to have mistreated her, you were mistreating yourself by putting up with this for so long. That isn't love, man. 2
Author Kupemon Posted May 5, 2021 Author Posted May 5, 2021 47 minutes ago, glows said: You shouldn't have to list these. They're very, very basic requirements in a mutually respectful relationship. No interaction should be full of comparisons, lack of gratitude or humiliating. This does beg the question - why did you put up with this for the period that you did or even for one second tell yourself that it was acceptable in any way? Half the problem is you staying for that kind of treatment from a partner. As hard as it is you'll have to acknowledge that if you want to genuinely move forward (and not make the same mistakes with future partners down the road). No one is perfect and we all make mistakes. It's the delusional and the arrogant who believe that they're perfect.. so take a moment to reflect. You deserve a lot better than what this relationship offered you. The big question is why didn't you see it from the start? You can start fresh and on a new slate after much healing. All is not lost but definitely do put this behind you. I've seen it, but I guess I have been afraid of change, of loss and being alone again. I've known her for all my life, but we weren't talking to each other much. We started talking in college. We attended the very same schools, from kindergarten up to the same college. Maybe that was a part of that toxic attachment that was mentioned. I fell really dumb when I think about it now.
Wiseman2 Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Kupemon said: . She suggested that I should make a list of things that she should fix in herself, so I did that. There was 37 points on that list. Yikes. A list of 37 items? It would be best to take your chances that you'll be fine and ready to date again. However you need to address your own insecurities and your family problems first. As long as you harbor this much anger hatred and contempt, stay single. 1
Caauug Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Kupemon said: For the next two weeks I tried to reason with her but she always responded with hate. That I was bugging her. Look at her actions, they will tell you what she really wants/needs. Talk is cheap, she may even tell you what you want to hear.... But it is hard for her to lie with her actions.... Now for your bad news: For the most part, every woman wants a strong man. Strong mentally and physically. Your concerns with your mum battling liver cancer did not help, not much you could do about that... Maybe just protect your GF from your emotions while dealing with that.... She didn't need to see your weakness. 3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said: The dysfunctional element is confusing patient and forgiving with having poor personal boundaries in a relaitonship. There's a significant difference between patience and toxic attachment to someone who mistreats you. You would be wise to identify where your value is and why you let her steamroll right over it. So while you do not appear to have mistreated her, you were mistreating yourself by putting up with this for so long. That isn't love, man. Thank You. ^^^^^^^ OP Remember this!!!^^^^^^ As I stated above she wants a strong man in her life, and she was able to push you around and manipulate you. I would even go as far as you pedestalized her somewhat.... That does not work... As the saying goes: "Treat her like a queen and she will treat you like a peasant" (This does not mean to mistreat her!!!) Keeping in contact/wanting to get back together: This shows your weakness, you broke up with her, if there was to be any future contact it should be her contacting you. If you contact her it shows your weakness.... again.... 5 hours ago, Kupemon said: Her biggest reason to hate me was that I was not supportive. She told me few times that she thought she had a depression because her boss yelled at her and she wanted to kill herself. She really considered killing herself, because stupid things like that. She didn't want to kill herself, if she did, she would have... As you were also dealing with your mum's health problems, I see this more of a crap test.... Testing you on how you would respond to her wanting to kill herself.... "I was not supportive" sounds like more dribble from her mouth... You state she always wanted to fight or argue: This is another way of testing your strength, you let her do it... This showed your weakness. Men and women do not think the same way, we do not love the same way. Our needs and wants are different and our attraction is different also. Your GF wants a man that is strong in body and mind, someone that can lead and provide for her and her (your?) family... Someone that has strong boundaries that knows what he wants and is willing to work for it or achieve it. What Now: It's time to work on yourself. Do what you can with the 6 sixes. Get over her.... NC, delete, block, etc. Eat healthy, and exercise, get into good physical shape. Kick any bad habits, if possible rekindle some productive hobbies. Lay off the alcohol and drugs. Lean on close family or maybe a friend to open up to.... Reach out for help if you need to. Look after the most important person in your life - YOU!!!
d0nnivain Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 This was your 1st relationship & 1st break up. The idea that you could write out 37 things that bothered you about her that you think she needed to fix boggles my mind. If that mush stuff is wrong, just be done. The reality, which you don't understand, is that you don't want HER back. Intellectually you know this wasn't working. Re-read your list of 37 problems & your own post about how toxic this was. What you want is a good healthy, satisfying relationship. Because there were some good parts you want the good stuff but you want the bad to be fixed. Not gonna happen. You need to start fresh with somebody else after you take time to reflect on what went wrong in this relationship & learn from your mistakes. 2
glows Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Kupemon said: I've seen it, but I guess I have been afraid of change, of loss and being alone again. I've known her for all my life, but we weren't talking to each other much. We started talking in college. We attended the very same schools, from kindergarten up to the same college. Maybe that was a part of that toxic attachment that was mentioned. I fell really dumb when I think about it now. Quote I hated being with her when I was with her, and now I hate living without her. I was crying myself to sleep for two weeks, because I regretted what I've done. It hurts me that I hurt her, even though she was the bad guy in this relationship! I thought she cared for me and would change those mean and hurtful aspects of her so we could be finally happy, but she wouldn't. Hate is part of that toxicity. Just quit attributing so much hate to her or the situation. It's a lot of lost energy and draining. It takes time to heal from break ups. It seems like you're expecting something instant and going back and forth. Give yourself a few weeks, minimum six months, to recoup and gather your thoughts. You both knew each other for a long time. If you keep communicating with someone who constantly blames you for crap you no longer care for, that's your cue to walk away and end communication. Leave that all behind. Put aside your ego for a second because it's not about anyone being the good or bad guy. It's about getting out of a horrible relationship. Take your time and move on. Also, the reason why I mentioned support/counselling is to deal with any residual anger/sadness/pain from learning of your mum's diagnosis. This is something else that's ongoing. Especially now that this relationship is over, lean on that support if it's available if you feel that it will help. Edited May 5, 2021 by glows 1
Taramere Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Kupemon said: Never thought that being cool-headed, forgiving and patient would ever get me a sticker of being dysfunctional, but I know you are right. I have some work to do with myself as well. These are great qualities, but I do think one of the risks that comes with them is that a) they can lead to a tendency to be overly tolerant and b) they might prevent you from getting into conflicts with other people a great deal of the time. Which is good in some ways but if you're suddenly faced with a potential conflict that can't be easily side-stepped with diplomacy and patience, how do you then deal with it? Sometimes you just have to call another person out on behaviour that's bugging you, even if you really don't want to. Otherwise as other people say, how do you know your own limits and boundaries? And it doesn't always go well. Most people don't appreciate being called out and are probably going to react with some degree of negativity. The overall theme here is that your girlfriend, who you were with for two years, is a toxic person and you're a coolheaded, patient and forgiving guy. Though maybe not as forgiving as you think, given that you drew up a list of 37 things she did that had obviously continued to rankle. You've mentioned that she was depressed and suicidal because her boss yelled at her, and you're annoyed that somebody would consider throwing their life away when you've watched a parent battling serious illness. It's understandable that you would feel that way in the circumstances, but suicidal ideation isn't generally something that follows reasoned consideration of "is it okay for me to be thinking about suicide when other people are battling to live?" That you mention this suicidal ideation resulted from her boss yelling at her does raise the possibility that perhaps she was encountering stress at work that amounted to a bit more than just her boss yelling at her one time. There's always the possibiity that you have inadvertently minimised a period of serious stress or anxiety that she was going through, because compared to the illness your mother was going through it didn't seem like much of a thing. It sounds as though temperamentally the two of you were not that good a match. Your idea of a toxic personality might be the next guy's idea of a woman who says what's on her mind - even at the risk of being blunt or coming across as confrontational. There are people who prefer that approach, if the alternative involves keeping quiet and letting things fester. Personally I think aspiring to a point where you can communicate openly and directly without things getting overly heated is the ideal, but there are always going to be times of stress when it doesn't quite work out that way. Persevering regardless of all the things that made you unhappy has led you to this situation where you listed more than 3 dozen things she needed to fix and where you've concluded that she's a toxic person. That's what can happen when you persist in having any sort of relationship with somebody who you're really not a good fit with. You end up thinking they're 37 kinds of wrong, while you're the victim who got burned in the course of trying to have a relationship with this toxic nightmare of a human being. Difficult as she might be, and even dysfunctional in some ways, it sounds like there were unfair aspects to your treatment of her. The minimising of her suicidal ideation "because her boss yelled at her" is one (and a pretty damn serious one), and presenting her with a massive list of things she needed to fix was another. You probably know that already, hence the conflict....but I wouldn't advocate trying to put it right. That would probably just result in a fresh chapter of hell for both of you. What you're presenting is a bad relationship that probably lasted far longer than it should have done, due to you misguidedly thinking a tolerant, patient attitude towards things that made you unhappy was a virtue. Edited May 5, 2021 by Taramere
Author Kupemon Posted May 5, 2021 Author Posted May 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Taramere said: These are great qualities, but I do think one of the risks that comes with them is that a) they can lead to a tendency to be overly tolerant and b) they might prevent you from getting into conflicts with other people a great deal of the time. Which is good in some ways but if you're suddenly faced with a potential conflict that can't be easily side-stepped with diplomacy and patience, how do you then deal with it? Sometimes you just have to call another person out on behaviour that's bugging you, even if you really don't want to. Otherwise as other people say, how do you know your own limits and boundaries? And it doesn't always go well. Most people don't appreciate being called out and are probably going to react with some degree of negativity. The overall theme here is that your girlfriend, who you were with for two years, is a toxic person and you're a coolheaded, patient and forgiving guy. Though maybe not as forgiving as you think, given that you drew up a list of 37 things she did that had obviously continued to rankle. You've mentioned that she was depressed and suicidal because her boss yelled at it, and you're annoyed that somebody would consider throwing their life away when you've watched a parent battling serious illness. It's understandable that you would feel that way in the circumstances, but suicidal ideation isn't generally something that follows reasoned consideration of "is it okay for me to be thinking about suicide when other people are battling to live?" That you mention this suicidal ideation resulted from her boss yelling at her does raise the possibility that perhaps she was encountering stress at work that amounted to a bit more than just her boss yelling at her one time. There's always the possibiity that you have inadvertently minimised a period of serious stress or anxiety that she was going through, because compared to the illness your mother was going through it didn't seem like much of a thing. It sounds as though temperamentally the two of you were not that good a match. Your idea of a toxic personality might be the next guy's idea of a woman who says what's on her mind - even at the risk of being blunt or coming across as confrontational. There are people who prefer that approach, if the alternative involves keeping quiet and letting things fester. Personally I think aspiring to a point where you can communicate openly and directly without things getting overly heated is the ideal, but there are always going to be times of stress when it doesn't quite work out that way. It sounds as though temperamentally the two of you just weren't a match - and persevering regardless has led you to this situation where you listed more than 3 dozen things she needed to fix and where you've concluded that she's a toxic person. That's what can happen when you persevere in having any sort of relationship with somebody who you're really not a good fit with. You end up thinking they're 37 kinds of wrong, while you're the victim who got burned in the course of trying to have a relationship with this toxic nightmare of a human being. Difficult as she might be, and even dysfunctional in some ways, it sounds like there were unfair aspects to your treatment of her. The minimising of her suicidal ideation "because her boss yelled at her" is one (and a pretty damn serious one), and presenting her with a massive list of things she needed to fix was another. You probably know that already, hence the conflict....but I wouldn't advocate trying to put it right. That would probably just result in a fresh chapter of hell for both of you. What you're presenting is a bad relationship that probably lasted far longer than it should have done, due to you misguidedly thinking a tolerant, patient attitude towards things that made you unhappy was a virtue. Never, ever have I told her that her problems were smaller than mine. I couldn't believe what she was saying, but I never specifically told her that I think these are some tiny, little problems. I always tried to cheer her up, offered to come and cook something for her or anything at all. And she always rejected that. I started to suspect that she hasn't really meant that when I asked her why I'm the only one she's telling this to. It was weird to me, because she always was saying that her father is the most important person to her, and he didn't know anything about that. As I said, she later confirmed it herself that it was not depression, but some test to see how I would react. And for the list, is forgiving the same as forgeting? I forgave her a lot, but forgeting is not as easy to me. No one would easily forget when the person you think you love tells you, that you give gifts so shi**y that she can't gloat about them to her girlfriends (her words, even though I always put much more effort than she did). I've never reminded her about those things from the past, even during arguements. But when she asked for a list of things she did to me that hurt me, I just did as she asked. Would it be really better if I shortened it on purpose?
Taramere Posted May 5, 2021 Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kupemon said: Never, ever have I told her that her problems were smaller than mine. I couldn't believe what she was saying, but I never specifically told her that I think these are some tiny, little problems. I always tried to cheer her up, offered to come and cook something for her or anything at all. And she always rejected that. I started to suspect that she hasn't really meant that when I asked her why I'm the only one she's telling this to. It was weird to me, because she always was saying that her father is the most important person to her, and he didn't know anything about that. As I said, she later confirmed it herself that it was not depression, but some test to see how I would react. And for the list, is forgiving the same as forgeting? I forgave her a lot, but forgeting is not as easy to me. No one would easily forget when the person you think you love tells you, that you give gifts so shi**y that she can't gloat about them to her girlfriends (her words, even though I always put much more effort than she did). I've never reminded her about those things from the past, even during arguements. But when she asked for a list of things she did to me that hurt me, I just did as she asked. Would it be really better if I shortened it on purpose? I think forgiving is basically about not hanging on to things from the past. I'd say it's what happens when you've either resolved an issue with somebody and are able to regard it as done and dusted - or else, if it can't be resolved and it's a dealbreaker, walking away with as few hard feelings as you can muster. My guess is that the list of 37 things she did to hurt you could probably be shortened considerably if you thought less in terms of specific events and more in terms of what you believe to be the underlying problem that resulted in these events. So just as an example...lack of consideration for you might result in her being dismissive of a gift you gave her and then (on a far more serious level) claiming that she was depressed to the point of being suicidal purely to see how you would react (ie with little or no thought of the immensely distressing impact such a claim would have on anybody who cared about her). But I don't think you would need to give an ample list of examples...and indeed, it's better to limit the number of examples you give. It seems unlikely that 37 different distressing or offensive occurrences would come from 37 different character/behavioural flaws. Past unpleasant episodes can never really be changed or fixed, but the flawed thinking/behaviour that led to them perhaps can. The "I did this to see how you would react" thing is concerning - but I suppose a lot depends on whether she was willing to concede that testing somebody out for a reaction is a good thing to do. If she doesn't see anything wrong with manipulating people in that way, then that's definitely something for her to reflect on - but if her confession that she was testing you out resulted from her self reflecting and being honest with herself ("if I'm honest with myself, I did that to test him out - and that was not a good thing to do") then I think that's different. The main sense I get is that you've focused on times she hurt you and produced a fairly lengthy list of evidence - rather than perhaps searching for a common theme in her mindset/general behaviour that resulted in these numerous unpleasant episodes. Listing symptoms instead of identifying a common denominator (eg "you've regularly shown a lack of regard for my feelings which I find rude and unacceptable"). Edited May 5, 2021 by Taramere
ShyViolet Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 20 hours ago, Kupemon said: After one fight I just said that I needed some time, because my mom is battling liver cancer and I really couldn't bear constant fighting that she was bringing. I broke up with her soon after that. She took it REALLY bad. I still have nightmares from that day - the look of her crying face is haunting me every day. After I broke up I called her three days later and said that we can try again, but she has to change a few things inside her if she wants to be with me. She suggested that I should make a list of things that she should fix in herself, so I did that. There was 37 points on that list. This was a huge mistake.... going back to her after the first breakup. And giving her a list of 37 things that she needed to change? I don't understand how you thought that was a good idea or that it would work. You should not have gone back to her. Of course breakups are hard, and it's normal to feel mixed feelings about it and remember the good times. But there was more than enough toxic and dysfunctional behavior here to warrant a breakup and to stick to it. You need to work on yourself and ask yourself why you put up with this for as long as you did. You need to get more self-respect and never tolerate something like this again.
Alfano Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 19 hours ago, Kupemon said: The list was made because she asked me to do that specifically. Dude that's just wrong. Pick the top 5 maybe. After the first 20 she was done reading and done with you. Even if she wasn't consciously aware of it at the time.
Author Kupemon Posted May 6, 2021 Author Posted May 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Alfano said: Dude that's just wrong. Pick the top 5 maybe. After the first 20 she was done reading and done with you. Even if she wasn't consciously aware of it at the time. I actually couldn't disagree more. I've provided the list few days before we've met and there was no negative response at all. She said that she's going to take it to her heart, but she needs clarification on few of them, because I was too vague about them. And those things were that I've pointed out that she is changing her mind about everything on daily basis and I always wouldn't know what she wanted, for example, for a gift or where to go out. I just asked if she could be more empathetic. Second point was that I asked her to keep her phone on for the night, because she always had it turned off. She could turn the Internet off, but just keep it on. What if something happened and I desperately needed her help? I wouldn't reach her. Her answer was of course "no, because she won't be bothered at night". Literally. After that she started a fight again. And as I said, but some people seem to forget, she did not say anything at all about the list when I asked why couldn't she fight. That was not deciding factor for her. The problem was that I wasn't looking her straight in the eyes all the time when we've met AND that I did not let her fondle my arm when we were talking. Why would she say such a thing if she was so hurt about the list?
ExpatInItaly Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) How many items you actually included on the list is not that important. What's important is that there were that many problems at all. That's where you need better boundaries and more self-esteem. You walk away when a relationship is that bad and hurting you that much. The desire to have a girlfriend should not override your common sense and better judgement. You cannot have a happy and functional relationship with someone this toxic, because they will always find fault in you and will belittle you whenever they can. It's your first relationship, but you really need to adjust your expectations and standards for a relationship. This girl wiped her feet on you and you allowed it for way too long. Edited May 6, 2021 by ExpatInItaly 1 1
Wiseman2 Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 Sorry this is happening. This much arguing, contempt,etc. is a clear sign that you are not compatible and breaking up is a good choice. Anyone who would even consider a laundry list of grievances like that has serious insecurities. You're both unhappy and it's wearing you both out. Rather than lists of changes and complaints, find someone you are happy with just the way they are.
Taramere Posted May 8, 2021 Posted May 8, 2021 By the by...will she be providing you with a list of things you could do with changing about yourself - or is this a one way thing?
Author Kupemon Posted May 9, 2021 Author Posted May 9, 2021 12 hours ago, Taramere said: By the by...will she be providing you with a list of things you could do with changing about yourself - or is this a one way thing? Her plan was that on the first meetup since breaking up we were supposed to talk about her (my list), and the next one was supposed to be about me (her list). As you know, it never got to that and since then she has said that she won't be making one, because she thought there was no point in doing that now.
Taramere Posted May 9, 2021 Posted May 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Kupemon said: Her plan was that on the first meetup since breaking up we were supposed to talk about her (my list), and the next one was supposed to be about me (her list). As you know, it never got to that and since then she has said that she won't be making one, because she thought there was no point in doing that now. I think that's very wise. Once people break up, there's too much scope for people to either focus on purely the worst aspects without noting qualities that balance out those worst aspects. Although break ups usually occur for the best, they still feel like a failure...and it's human nature to want to ascribe blame (for failures) to others. I had a friendship break up recently. With a guy. He's somebody who is fixated on the damsel in distress scenario..so as a woman, you're okay so long as you're in that role, but the moment you lay down a boundary with him it's like throwing a live hand grenade into a minefield. He sent me a torrent of the kind of messages that are tantamount to not just burning any bridge back to friendship, but dynamiting it. When somebody's in that frame of mind, they're not going to be giving any sort of constructive criticism worth listening to. A lot of it was just projection on a grand scale, mixed with a few passive aggressive digs abut the more sensitive aspects of my history in my face. When people do that to me, which thankfully hasn't happened very often, it doesn't particularly hurt me since they're not going to be tapping into anything that I haven't already explored pretty thoroughly in counselling. However, it does make me think "okay, I'm not interested in trying to rebuild any bridges this person is currently taking such unrestrained glee in dynamiting. Your situation sounds far calmer and less toxic than that. But even then, I think any sort of character assessment occurring in the course of a break up is liable to be more destructive than constructive. We're all flawed humans, and in the course of stress or conflict our flaws become magnified. Likewise, our flaws become magnified in the eyes of people who are feeling hurt and angry with us. It's best not to get into that "here are the things I think you need to change about yourself" scenario.
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