Catfish

[ZA Dater]

I am just going to live and let live. If nobody I like likes me and I miss out well then so be it because to be frank when I read here, none of those options is appealing to me at all, not even slightly.

If I can't date someone I find attractive then nothing will have to do, I respect people who compromised and found success. 

I have no qualms wearing this choice just today sometime asked and my response " there is nobody interested in me who I find attractive" it's the truth.

I know there are people out there who do wow me and I so find attractive on multiple levels. As long as I know that I'll keep looking for what some here describe as a unicorn because I know when I find them they totally captivate me. For me it's about that. 

I'll just agree to disagree, you all have more experience than me but ultimately I simply want one specific experience. Will I ever find it in totality, probably not but the idea is vastly preferable to the experience I can actually get.

I guess the price to pay, I am alone, you all have someone to love. Me, I just love an idea.

[basil67]

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I respect people who compromised and found success. 

Compromise?   Is that truly how you view the relationships of people who fall in love with others who aren't models?   For someone who prides himself on being kind and thoughtful, that word was both rude and untrue.    

 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I guess the price to pay, I am alone, you all have someone to love. Me, I just love an idea.

And with that, I assume no reason more to post. I wish you and your idea a magical life.

[BaileyB]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Please. Would you date someone you did not find attractive, simple question?

Kindly, We’ve had this discussion before. I have better things to do with my time than go around and around the same discussion with you - so should you. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

Consider whether you may have some strong level of avoidant attachment or other minor psychological issue (such as a "complex") that keeps you in your situation. If that's the case and you are open to therapy it might help.

Complex (in psychology):

Quote

a group or system of related ideas or impulses that have a common emotional tone and exert a strong but usually unconscious influence on the individual's attitudes and behavior.

 

[bene]

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Simple as that, no they do not need to be stick figure thin but at least be able to go on a hike or do some physical activity.

This is a perfectly reasonable preference. Far from demanding that a woman needs to be too model to be attractive to you.

 

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Nobody is ever going to sway me that looks are not one of the most important aspects of dating, people tell the same old tired "but its personality" every single one who has told me was dating someone attractive who just happens to have personality...

Let’s put it that way - you work out, so you’re probably quite fit. You look fine from your avatar picture. You must have money because you have mentioned work and business being important to you. You have an interest in cars if I recall correctly so you probably drive a flashy car. You tick all the superficial boxes so what else is left where you’re lacking something than…personality?

I don’t really know what your goal is on this forum but it looks like a sport that whatever someone suggests, you shoot it down - no, I can’t, I won’t, doesn’t work. If you act like this in real life then people are put off. You might call it debating skills but it’s like those people who won’t even listen until you finish a sentence but are already thinking of a comeback in their head. It would be nice to at least acknowledge that people are saying something, sharing something, thinking along with you.

Another thing, someone brought it up earlier that maybe you actually don’t want a woman but you’re somehow just thinking that this is what you should want. Let me be blunt, men have done many stupid things for sex and women in history (and I’m not saying you should). They have lost fortunes, kingdoms, taken stupid risks, you name it. Especially in teenagers and young men the pure hormonal drive to have sex is strong and it leads them to women on way or the other (again, I’m not saying that you should be guided by hormones). But here you are endlessly debating why not go on a date or talk to a woman in a coffee shop, setting the bar so high that you never have to make a move. 

Could it be that in the end you know that you don’t really want it?

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, bene said:

This is a perfectly reasonable preference. Far from demanding that a woman needs to be too model to be attractive to you.

 

Let’s put it that way - you work out, so you’re probably quite fit. You look fine from your avatar picture. You must have money because you have mentioned work and business being important to you. You have an interest in cars if I recall correctly so you probably drive a flashy car. You tick all the superficial boxes so what else is left where you’re lacking something than…personality?

I don’t really know what your goal is on this forum but it looks like a sport that whatever someone suggests, you shoot it down - no, I can’t, I won’t, doesn’t work. If you act like this in real life then people are put off. You might call it debating skills but it’s like those people who won’t even listen until you finish a sentence but are already thinking of a comeback in their head. It would be nice to at least acknowledge that people are saying something, sharing something, thinking along with you.

Another thing, someone brought it up earlier that maybe you actually don’t want a woman but you’re somehow just thinking that this is what you should want. Let me be blunt, men have done many stupid things for sex and women in history (and I’m not saying you should). They have lost fortunes, kingdoms, taken stupid risks, you name it. Especially in teenagers and young men the pure hormonal drive to have sex is strong and it leads them to women on way or the other (again, I’m not saying that you should be guided by hormones). But here you are endlessly debating why not go on a date or talk to a woman in a coffee shop, setting the bar so high that you never have to make a move. 

Could it be that in the end you know that you don’t really want it?

I appreciate advice. Its when people start arriving with frankly rubbish about leagues and "well you know if that person likes you then that is your level". Honestly life about going after the best you can irrespective how you define best, settling for something you do not want because its all you can have is frankly contrary to that idea. 

For me best is someone I actually feel something for, its absolutely pointless having someone swoon over me I do not find attractive or feel anything for. I take heavy criticism for my attraction to fit people? Why is this, should we all not aspire to be as fit and healthy as we can? Should we all not aspire to know what is going on in the world around us? Should we all not aspire to try be our best on any given day, should we all not aspire to look good?

Do you know how many times I actually can be who I actually am on dates, very few because I need to compromise so heavily lest I say the wrong thing or dare have an opinion she does not like, all of this for what exactly? 

I can sit with people who do not find me attractive and have a much better time just chatting and being me. Every single person walking this earth has good attributes but what annoys me is dare sell a different type of attributes and well you might as well not exist. 

There is this apparent one size fits all methodology which gets trotted out but how true is that really? 

 

[Weezy1973]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Every single person walking this earth has good attributes but what annoys me is dare sell a different type of attributes and well you might as well not exist. 

There is this apparent one size fits all methodology which gets trotted out but how true is that really? 

 

You seem to only be interested in women  that have superficially attractive attributes. And the same superficial attributes that attract a lot of men. Is that what you’re talking about? 

[ZA Dater]

33 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

You seem to only be interested in women  that have superficially attractive attributes. And the same superficial attributes that attract a lot of men. Is that what you’re talking about? 

One cannot pretend that those attributes are not important, someone who is unattractive to me will not suddenly be more attractive to me 15 minutes later. Women reject me in 15 minutes which is FINE but to the advocate I need to give endless leeway is ridiculous. 

For me superficial is important, as it is to many people.

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

For me superficial is important, as it is to many people.

Which is why beautiful people date other beautiful people. So what are referring to when you say “dare to try to sell a different type of attribute and well you might as well not even exist”?

[stillafool]

Yep beautiful people normally want and can get someone who matches their looks and that's who they fall in love with.  It's been that way since the beginning of time.  There are those who will date/marry a less attractive person for financial reasons.  That isn't love so most of those will never know what it's like to actually be loved by that good looking person.

[elaine567]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I appreciate advice. Its when people start arriving with frankly rubbish about leagues and "well you know if that person likes you then that is your level". Honestly life about going after the best you can irrespective how you define best, settling for something you do not want because its all you can have is frankly contrary to that idea. 

And how has that worked out for you dating wise?
20 years of complete failure...
Does that not tell you something?

[basil67]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

One cannot pretend that those attributes are not important, someone who is unattractive to me will not suddenly be more attractive to me 15 minutes later. Women reject me in 15 minutes which is FINE but to the advocate I need to give endless leeway is ridiculous. 

For me superficial is important, as it is to many people.

Your dogged determination that this is a double standard is completely lacking in logic.

If that woman landed here, complaining that she was chronically single, we'd all tell her to stop being so picky.   Same advice given to you will also *shock* be given to women.

[BaileyB]

43 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Your dogged determination that this is a double standard is completely lacking in logic.

If that woman landed here, complaining that she was chronically single, we'd all tell her to stop being so picky.   Same advice given to you will also *shock* be given to women.

The flip side of that argument is that he can’t possibly rule out a large percentage of the female population because they don’t meet his superficial standards of beauty/intelligence/fitness and then complain that women don’t give him a chance, that he can’t possibly compete against all the handsome/rich/charismatic men out there, and no woman will take the time to get to know the real person and the positive qualities that OP bring to a relationship…

It defies logic. It’s one of my favourite sayings - “this discussion is an exercise in futility.”

Edited September 8, 2021 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

Your dogged determination that this is a double standard is completely lacking in logic.

If that woman landed here, complaining that she was chronically single, we'd all tell her to stop being so picky.   Same advice given to you will also *shock* be given to women.

I think when one looks around here there appear to be many more chronically unsuccessful men around here than women which basically tells me there is some degree of truth to my statement. 

What exactly is picky? Is that the go to when someone cannot date someone they find attractive? If so what is the opposite and how does someone become less picky, my guess they simply adopt the "that will do" approach. Am I wrong?

[ZA Dater]

16 hours ago, stillafool said:

Yep beautiful people normally want and can get someone who matches their looks and that's who they fall in love with.  It's been that way since the beginning of time.  There are those who will date/marry a less attractive person for financial reasons.  That isn't love so most of those will never know what it's like to actually be loved by that good looking person.

Ok lets assume this is true, does that mean the rest of us simply go "well you know he or she is not really that bad but well I guess he or she is sort of attractive". Saying that assumes then that most people actually do not find their partners wholly attractive but well something is better than nothing or maybe over time they find them attractive. The last part is problematic because lets face it who actually gets to do the picking here?

Lets assume broadly that the only thing relationships bring over friendship is intimacy, even the least attractive lady can find intimacy, whereas the least attractive guy finds nobody, again very broadly speaking. Overly simplistic perhaps. 

Re the bold, are you then saying most never actually get loved by people who they find to be good looking? 

[basil67]

39 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I think when one looks around here there appear to be many more chronically unsuccessful men around here than women which basically tells me there is some degree of truth to my statement. 

Ok so, genders are roughly equal around the world (49.6% being women according to ourworldindata.org). Add to that fact, a number of cultures practice polygamy - therefore, some men get more than their share of wives. This would leave a higher ratio of available women than men.   This tells me that women are more likely to accept singledom and men are more likely to whine about it.

39 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

What exactly is picky? Is that the go to when someone cannot date someone they find attractive? If so what is the opposite and how does someone become less picky, my guess they simply adopt the "that will do" approach. Am I wrong?

I've lost count of the number of times I've said something along the lines of "My husband is not a model, yet I am not 'settling', he's not a 'that will do'.  He is the love of my life".  Yet you continue to belittle the type of love I have for husband.  This is mean and unkind and I will no longer accept it.   I will not continue posting on your threads.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

does that mean the rest of us simply go "well you know he or she is not really that bad but well I guess he or she is sort of attractive".

Not the rest of us, but YOU. specifically. YOU will need to do that as your real options are very limited or non existent.
Most of us  do not have such a narrow requirement, most of us are open to dating a wide range of people. most of us see the total package, most of us are not filtering out all but the most attractive in looks... most of us have  options so when we meet someone who doesn't tick our boxes, we let them go in favour of another.
With no options and a picky mindset, YOU,  if you want a woman in your life,  are going to have to settle, as the top tier women you want, will continue to choose other prettier, more charismatic, sexier men and will continue to reject you in favour of such men.

The world does not stop revolving for you or any of us, we can only make the best of the hand we are given.
You are stubbornly refusing to play the game, as it is played, so hard luck - you lose...
C'est la vie.

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 What exactly is picky? Is that the go to when someone cannot date someone they find attractive? If so what is the opposite and how does someone become less picky, my guess they simply adopt the "that will do" approach. Am I wrong?

Yes. Clearly you’re wrong. The problem is you’re only attracted to women more attractive than yourself. That’s being too picky about superficial things. You’ve admitted this multiple times. 
 

I’ve asked specifically if you’d date a woman at your own level of attractiveness and you’ve said “no”. That’s why you’re too picky. 

[ZA Dater]

49 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Not the rest of us, but YOU. specifically. YOU will need to do that as your real options are very limited or non existent.
Most of us  do not have such a narrow requirement, most of us are open to dating a wide range of people. most of us see the total package, most of us are not filtering out all but the most attractive in looks... most of us have  options so when we meet someone who doesn't tick our boxes, we let them go in favour of another.
With no options and a picky mindset, YOU,  if you want a woman in your life,  are going to have to settle, as the top tier women you want, will continue to choose other prettier, more charismatic, sexier men and will continue to reject you in favour of such men.

The world does not stop revolving for you or any of us, we can only make the best of the hand we are given.
You are stubbornly refusing to play the game, as it is played, so hard luck - you lose...
C'est la vie.

Really difficult to see what I have actually lost out on based on the above, in my mind absolutely nothing actually because if the only person I can date I am not interested in then actually all those experiences are rendered mute. The best of something I do not want is exactly the same as nothing to me. 

As for top tier, everyone is on the same tier.

A really attractive friend is far more appealing than a GF I need to convince myself I find attractive.

 

[ZA Dater]

21 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yes. Clearly you’re wrong. The problem is you’re only attracted to women more attractive than yourself. That’s being too picky about superficial things. You’ve admitted this multiple times. 
 

I’ve asked specifically if you’d date a woman at your own level of attractiveness and you’ve said “no”. That’s why you’re too picky. 

I would if they were actually slim, intelligent, capable of holding a conversation, gainfully employed, well spoken. Sure that is my equivalent so why on earth should I deviate from that?

I suppose that's being too picky too.

[elaine567]

6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

A really attractive friend is far more appealing than a GF I need to convince myself I find attractive.

As neither are actually available to you, then the comparison is irrelevant.
Whilst many women can value and treasure their female friends, few want to get  too involved with men.
Orbiters can cause too much hassle long term. 
It is validating and often flattering to have guys as friends, especially besotted ones, but the bonds become tenuous as time goes on. People couple up and move on with their own lives and families.

Truth is, friendship is all you can offer, so it is hardly an opinion borne out of the lived experience of having a gf.

[SumGuy]

35 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I would if they were actually slim, intelligent, capable of holding a conversation, gainfully employed, well spoken. Sure that is my equivalent so why on earth should I deviate from that?

I suppose that's being too picky too.

Ahhhh but what type of conversation are you capable of?  Intelligent in what ways?   Those traits are not the entire list your equivalent will have....merely what gets your foot in the door.   From you posts you do not seem like an easy conversationalist...rather it needs almost to be dragged out of you.  Also, what of social skills, personality?   I believe you should still pursue what you find attractive, but also think you have work to do on you, as have discussed and outlined before, to get there. 

[SoulCat]

41 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 

As for top tier, everyone is on the same tier.

 

 

No.

You are nowhere near the tier that the women you fancy are. 

You want a model- like beautiful, well travelled, well spoken, intelligent, outgoing stunner.

You are, at best, a mediocre looking, inexperienced 37 year old who's none of the above, but likes to pretend he is.

47 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

....those experiences are rendered mute.

 

 

Moot.

Not mute.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Truth is, friendship is all you can offer, so it is hardly an opinion borne out of the lived experience of having a gf.

A far nicer experience than to date for the sake of it and feel neither attraction nor anything for the person. I must be the only person in this thread who actually sees value in transactional friendships because its the few times where there is equal benefit. Me going out with someone I do not find attractive is of no benefit to me at all, it becomes very easy to justify to society when asked on that basis.

When I say attractive I mean overall.