Catfish

July 21, 2021

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

This is largely due to your inexperience unfortunately. Once you gain experience you learn initial attraction and first impressions aren’t nearly as important as deeper qualities that reveal themselves over time.

Odd really that nobody who is experienced is bothered to get to know me. The cake cuts both ways. Oddly too initial attraction seems pretty important to most people I have spoken to.

July 21, 2021

12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Odd really that nobody who is experienced is bothered to get to know me. The cake cuts both ways. Oddly too initial attraction seems pretty important to most people I have spoken to.

That isn't odd. A person at a certain point in her life wants someone similar.

July 21, 2021

2 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

That isn't odd. A person at a certain point in her life wants someone similar.

And an experienced person tends to be able to spot "potential" pretty quick.
"Getting to know" someone, takes effort and it also tends to be seen by the other as "taking interest".
To someone who sees no potential, then the last thing they want is to give the impression of "taking interest".
They thus keep it neutral or steer the conversation back to themselves.
Most will get the "low interest" message and move on.

July 21, 2021

37 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

And an experienced person tends to be able to spot "potential" pretty quick.
"Getting to know" someone, takes effort and it also tends to be seen by the other as "taking interest".
To someone who sees no potential, then the last thing they want is to give the impression of "taking interest".
They thus keep it neutral or steer the conversation back to themselves.
Most will get the "low interest" message and move on.

Ok so let me met this right. I must get to know people because well they might turn out to be pretty great after 5 dates but other 'can see potential" and reject me after 5 minutes? I can also see potential and I can see what I want and what I do not want. Agree why get to know someone if there is no potential.

Today's match, 38yo with two kids, father not in the picture, I am sure there is lots of potential here.....

July 21, 2021

3 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

That isn't odd. A person at a certain point in her life wants someone similar.

But people have told me endlessly that this NOT important, either it is or it is not. The point I am making is simple, if someone does not find me attractive, fine but then I fail to see why I cannot also find someone else unattractive, instead I am being told here I "must get to know the person and give them time", why I am dismissed immediately?

Or is this once again a "league" issue, certain people choose and well other must beg and grovel?

All this is ok, really it is. As is the case with most things, some are more fortunate and luckier than others.

Oddly I have never wanted anyone similar to me.

July 21, 2021

10 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

But it's not irrelevant. It pretty much seems to confirm that you only feel safe when you know it's never going to go anywhere and you will never have to be with the girl.

I'd have gladly been with either of those ladies and its always a big disappointment when as usual its one way like rather than mutual. Are you really going to invest anything into someone you do not find attractive in some way? I simply wont because its a waste of time UNLESS I just intend to be friends from the outset and once again I got more value from transactional friendships than I got from endless first dates. Another good example which takes me back to a comment, there was a lady who did sort of show some curiosity toward me, very attractive but her idea of fun was a trance party and all the things that typically happen at those so incompatibility then kicks in.

The value for me is simply not going on dates with anyone who will go on a date with me, I did this for years in the hope it was in fact a numbers game, it was not.

Probably because I deal in varying degrees of risk each day I look at dating the same way.

July 21, 2021

22 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok so let me met this right. I must get to know people because well they might turn out to be pretty great after 5 dates but other 'can see potential" and reject me after 5 minutes? I can also see potential and I can see what I want and what I do not want. Agree why get to know someone if there is no potential.

Today's match, 38yo with two kids, father not in the picture, I am sure there is lots of potential here.....

The difference between you and most is that you have NO success behind you.
Your "picker" is out of kilter with the women available to you.
You want what you cannot have.
That is why the suggestion FOR YOU is to give people a chance and not to dismiss out of hand.
You have no practical experience of a romantic relationship whatsoever, so why would you believe you know how to pick a suitable woman in five minutes, like a experienced person might..
Persuading a woman to go on five dates with you, is the first hurdle you have yet to jump...

She's pretty, tall and has a yoga body... she is the one for me... obviously...

July 21, 2021

2 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

The difference between you and most is that you have NO success behind you.
Your "picker" is out of kilter with the women available to you.
You want what you cannot have.
That is why the suggestion FOR YOU is to give people a chance and not to dismiss out of hand.
You have no practical experience of a romantic relationship whatsoever, so why would you believe you know how to pick a suitable woman in five minutes, like a experienced person might..
Persuading a woman to go on five dates with you, is the first hurdle you have yet to jump...

She's pretty, tall and has a yoga body... she is the one for me... obviously...

Why must I give anyone a chance when I am not given a chance? There is apparently no answer for this. I am quite capable like most other people of ascertaining what I find attractive so no I do not need 5 dates because lets be frank for most people there are endless options so why bother investing time to get to know someone you are not attracted to, would seem like a waste of time to me. No experience is required to determine what one finds attractive.

This very much alone the line of thinking which put me off set up dates because it was a case of 'well this is good enough for you even if its not good enough for me, I know you like so and so but you know this person is really fantastic and you should like them instead" and then a person I had no interest at all is sold to me like a salesman selling a car at month end. I have made it very clear to people to not bother with this, if they are not prepared to do as much selling to people I do like then rather just let me be. This has largely been effective.

July 21, 2021

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Today's match, 38yo with two kids, father not in the picture, I am sure there is lots of potential here.....

First you said no single mothers. You don’t want to deal with any children.
Then a “model” comes along with a baby and suddenly you’re good with children. You say that THIS single mother is ok because the father is not in the picture.

suddenly your posts are littered with how you like kids and babies love you. You want a family.

Now you judge another single mother because the father isn’t around

Let me guess. She’s not a model.

Just like you spent years judging people who drink and proclaimed you absolutely didn’t drink. Till you went away for a weekend with K and not only did you drink, but by your own admission tried to kiss her BECAUSE she had been drinking.

People see through you. That’s why they lose interest in you once they spend any time with you. You think you’re the intellectual superior to every not good enough woman you meet and thus they’re not smart enough to realise who you really are.

You wish you were a Svengali because then you could manipulate women into being with you but unfortunately for you and fortunately for women, those skills are lacking just like every other skill or trait you need to be successful in the dating world.

July 21, 2021

34 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Why must I give anyone a chance when I am not given a chance?

You shouldn’t. You’re absolutely right. Don’t.
Don’t give anyone a chance who requires anything of you. Hold out for the

tall

thin

worldly

White

model,

who can have her pick of men but will choose you. Don’t come back here till you find her.

July 21, 2021

19 minutes ago, jspice said:

First you said no single mothers. You don’t want to deal with any children.
Then a “model” comes along with a baby and suddenly you’re good with children. You say that THIS single mother is ok because the father is not in the picture.

suddenly your posts are littered with how you like kids and babies love you. You want a family.

Now you judge another single mother because the father isn’t around

Let me guess. She’s not a model.
Just like you spent years judging people who drink and proclaimed you absolutely didn’t drink. Till you went away for a weekend with K and not only did you drink, but by your own admission tried to kiss her BECAUSE she had been drinking.

People see through you. That’s why they lose interest in you once they spend any time with you. You think you’re the intellectual superior to every not good enough woman you meet and thus they’re not smart enough to realise who you really are.

You wish you were a Svengali because then you could manipulate women into being with you but unfortunately for you and fortunately for women, those skills are lacking just like every other skill or trait you need to be successful in the dating world.

You have a wonderful way with words. Such lovely words of disdain.

I actually do not mind kids providing if they are other peoples kids they can actually support them. Do I want two of another guys kids in my life, not really to be honest. Kids do like me so I guess that is something lol.

No she is not a model at all. By the way I have never tried to kiss K despite many people telling this clueless dude to try and make a move, I never did that. I tend to let people be who have partners and put them into the friend zone which I see nothing wrong with.

Not really sure what they see I am pretty honest and transparent on dates, never tried to pretend I have any dating or relationship history, been pretty upfront that I am clueless at dating.

July 21, 2021

24 minutes ago, jspice said:

You shouldn’t. You’re absolutely right. Don’t.
Don’t give anyone a chance who requires anything of you. Hold out for the

tall

thin

worldly

White

model,

who can have her pick of men but will choose you. Don’t come back here till you find her.

Such an emotive post.

Does everyone not have their pick? Oh no sorry I forget people walk around and look at others "well you know she/he is not in my league best I look elsewhere" or alternatively for some you need to really give them an opportunity while for others the throw away after 5 minutes is ok for them to do. But hey maybe its leagues again.

By the way the first 4 above would be sufficient, thanks for asking!

At the end of the day either one competes by trying to stand out/beg and grovel or one does not and simply takes a few good experiences here and there. There is pretty much nothing that will convince me spending lots of time with someone who finds me attractive but who I do not find attractive is better than spending 30 minutes with someone I think is amazing but who does not find me attractive. If that works for posters who I am to argue, do what makes you happy.

I'll keep chasing unicorn moments.

July 21, 2021

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Why must I give anyone a chance when I am not given a chance?

Because frankly you have no other options...
People with options don't want to give anyone a chance, they don't generally have to, they don't need to, so they don't.
The women you covet have plenty of options, so why would they give you a chance?

July 21, 2021

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Because frankly you have no other options...
People with options don't want to give anyone a chance, they don't generally have to, they don't need to, so they don't.
The women you covet have plenty of options, so why would they give you a chance?

Exactly which is exactly what I am doing, instead of that nonsense tactic of going out with people because well they matched with me I am actually ONLY going to go out with people I actually want to give a chance, if that is nobody well then its nobody. What I will not do is "beggars cant be choosers" method of doing this because that serves no purpose, it wastes my time and it wastes their time and nobody is benefitted.

Why would they give me a chance, well for one I am pretty different to most of the usual options, whether that is good or bad depends I guess. That is really the way I have tried to go about this, just be me with all the negatives that implies because if nothing else I am totally honest about who I am and my lack of experience and who knows maybe someone likes that honesty versus some guy spinning a lovely story.

Mostly they do not it would seem but irrespective of the change in selling method the fundamentals remain the same and they always do really there are not many ways of changing those.

I concede I am not going about this conventionally I also concede other people have more success than me but I do wonder if they are looking for the same thing I am, I suspect not, my end game with this really is to have one amazing experience once, live the idea I have in my mind, with A I did get to live around 75% of that idea and it was better than I expected. I am not asking someone to devote their life to me, heck go out with me 10 time and walk away, spend some shared time and walk away, Id be HAPPY with that because I'd know I had done the best I could.

But what do I know.

July 21, 2021

32 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Exactly which is exactly what I am doing, instead of that nonsense tactic of going out with people because well they matched with me I am actually ONLY going to go out with people I actually want to give a chance, if that is nobody well then its nobody.

First, nobody is saying to go out with the women from Tinder who swiped right on you. And again, they’re not matches. They’re shooting out of their league, and some of them are trying to improve their lot in life. You’d be much better off if you got rid of the option to see people who swiped right on you, and just waited for the occasional real match even if it only came along once every couple weeks.

I’ve been advocating all along to get into situations where you get to see people over and over again over time. This gives you the opportunity to get to know people and for people to get to know you. It isn’t all just about first impressions. This is how many relationships start. Tinder is the opposite of this, and while yes it does work for some, it doesn’t work for many. You happen to be one of the people it won’t work for. It didn’t work for me either. Quite a few dates. All one and dones.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Weezy1973

July 21, 2021

10 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

First, nobody is saying to go out with the women from Tinder who swiped right on you. And again, they’re not matches. They’re shooting out of their league, and some of them are trying to improve their lot in life. You’d be much better off if you got rid of the option to see people who swiped right on you, and just waited for the occasional real match even if it only came along once every couple weeks.

I’ve been advocating all along to get into situations where you get to see people over and over again over time. This gives you the opportunity to get to know people and for people to get to know you. It isn’t all just about first impressions. This is how many relationships start. Tinder is the opposite of this, and while yes it does work for some, it doesn’t work for many. You happen to be one of the people it won’t work for. It didn’t work for me either. Quite a few dates. All one and dones.

You know I do not mind people who are trying to improve their lot in life, I admire them actually but surely at some point they need to realize they need uplift themselves. One of the things I have been very fortunate enough to experience is spending time with people who have nothing and those who have everything so I can actually relate to people fairly well.

If I had to wait for a match I might wait years....

Sure I agree that would work well but I just never have that luxury because everything I find fun or am interested in does not put me around single ladies. Yes, Id then need to force myself to like something I don't for the sake of seeing people over and over again.

I do a bit better when I get to spend extended amounts of time with people but not massively better because seldom are there any single people. This something I regret and I cant deny people with circles of friends do a LOT better at dating than people like me who keep to themselves. Yes agree with you, you are not wrong and its easy to see how something like that could work. I did once come across a secretary at a place I went to fairly often and did get to know her quite well, only to find out she was not single when I tried to ask her out. Because this place goes with secretaries like I go through hot dinners I attempted the same with someone else, this time I lost out the typical Chad.

For a event I had a new supercar to drive and there were two single ladies and of course which one did I end up liking the one who went with me around the track giggling, I even got her number, only to find when I tried to ask her out on a date she was not single. Turns out the other lady was single.

I went to some fancy dinner and ended up chatting to two sisters, ended up getting the ones number only to find out she was actually looking benefactor, which I am not prepared to be.

I took K to a dinner after I met her where she was at home with some of the most difficult company I know, that dinner made me realize that compatibility would not be a problem.

My point is I am not just sitting back, I do try from time to time and despite the poor outcomes the experiences were great.

July 21, 2021

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Why must I give anyone a chance when I am not given a chance? There is apparently no answer for this...

Sure there is, just not one you can accept.

You have been given chances and you blew it if how you view the world shown here came out at all in your conversations. You see no value in just friendship, all you tinning is "but what is in it for me," sure you are nice and have manners and smart...so, so transactional...and the chip on your should though smooth and not as bad as many is still there. You sit in judgment of her, waiting of her to impress you and bring you out of your shell, and will only make an effort if she meets the grade...pretty arrogant in a passive way and women either pickup on that or think you are dull, passionless, a nice enough boy.

As long as you make it some tit for tat game (why must I give anyone a chance when I am not given a chance) you are going nowhere, and just more evidence of transactional thinking.

You can keep your transactional thinking and "lower" your standards/give them a chance...or you can change your transactional thinking and have a chance with those you say thrill you.

July 21, 2021

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Because frankly you have no other options...
People with options don't want to give anyone a chance, they don't generally have to, they don't need to, so they don't.
The women you covet have plenty of options, so why would they give you a chance?

Not exactly true, as think another said, many will if they see potential. Very much so....but only if they see potential. A know-it-all attitude is a fast track to no.

July 21, 2021

47 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Not exactly true, as think another said, many will if they see potential. Very much so....but only if they see potential. A know-it-all attitude is a fast track to no.

But they are not "giving a chance" to a person who they see "has potential" are they?
A person with potential will be first choice or not far from the top of choices
They are "giving a chance" to people who "may" have potential, or they see as a no hoper, but... just in case...
People with options do not need to scrape the barrel...

July 21, 2021

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

You have a wonderful way with words. Such lovely words of disdain.

I actually do not mind kids providing if they are other peoples kids they can actually support them. Do I want two of another guys kids in my life, not really to be honest. Kids do like me so I guess that is something lol.

No she is not a model at all. By the way I have never tried to kiss K despite many people telling this clueless dude to try and make a move, I never did that. I tend to let people be who have partners and put them into the friend zone which I see nothing wrong with.

Not really sure what they see I am pretty honest and transparent on dates, never tried to pretend I have any dating or relationship history, been pretty upfront that I am clueless at dating.

I do have a wonderful way with words. Thanks for noticing. You relish in disdain because it’s still attention.

July 21, 2021

I'll take Weezy1973's advice and work on making the best of the interactions I do get, seems to make the most sense to me and is bearing in mind my limited interactions the most practical advice.

July 21, 2021

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd have gladly been with either of those ladies and its always a big disappointment when as usual its one way like rather than mutual. Are you really going to invest anything into someone you do not find attractive in some way? I simply wont because its a waste of time UNLESS I just intend to be friends from the outset and once again I got more value from transactional friendships than I got from endless first dates. Another good example which takes me back to a comment, there was a lady who did sort of show some curiosity toward me, very attractive but her idea of fun was a trance party and all the things that typically happen at those so incompatibility then kicks in.

The value for me is simply not going on dates with anyone who will go on a date with me, I did this for years in the hope it was in fact a numbers game, it was not.

Probably because I deal in varying degrees of risk each day I look at dating the same way.

You *say* you would gladly have been with them. In reality, when an opportunity presents itself, you run. If you can't pin the person down as "an obese single mother," you say there was just something else somehow off. Be honest with yourself.

July 21, 2021

3 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Sure there is, just not one you can accept.

You have been given chances and you blew it if how you view the world shown here came out at all in your conversations. You see no value in just friendship, all you tinning is "but what is in it for me," sure you are nice and have manners and smart...so, so transactional...and the chip on your should though smooth and not as bad as many is still there. You sit in judgment of her, waiting of her to impress you and bring you out of your shell, and will only make an effort if she meets the grade...pretty arrogant in a passive way and women either pickup on that or think you are dull, passionless, a nice enough boy.

As long as you make it some tit for tat game (why must I give anyone a chance when I am not given a chance) you are going nowhere, and just more evidence of transactional thinking.

You can keep your transactional thinking and "lower" your standards/give them a chance...or you can change your transactional thinking and have a chance with those you say thrill you.

Well I'd argue there have not been many good chances and yes inexperience saw to it that I messed up those chances. I do see value in friendships if there is some common interest a d yes there needs to be some intangible benefit be it good conversation or whatever. I think that is reasonable.

Do you think I am not judged? Everyone judges to some degree and oddly I usually thrown all my cards on the table when it comes to dating, its stupid to spin some story I have any experience when I do not, I am judged harshly on that. You right I wont bother making the effort if there I have to sit there and squeeze conversation like water out of a stone, I suspect you would not make any effort in that circumstance.

I am also not going to bend over backwards and grovel to try make someone find me attractive, frankly I have been there many times and it never works, I have been on the other side of this 3 or so times and its not very attractive, though I am sure some guys would have gone along with it, slept with them and dumped the like a stone.

I have given countless people chances and I am convinced this not really not what I want to do UNLESS there is something I find attractive which negated negative points, call it potential or am I not allowed, maybe that is the domain of so called higher leagues.

I am not stupid, each time I do down this dating road, I weight up the chances of success and act according and take on risk based on how likely I think I might actually accomplish something, K, I threw everything I had at that, she was the motivator behind a makeover, me trying to be less shy, more out going, more confident and I think I managed that, why because there was an incentive, which still proved out of reach but I got a friendship of sorts from it which 5 years later is still intact, I am still as wowed when I chat to her as I was 5 years ago. I'd say I did OK there.

Up till 5 years those closest to never really realized how I struggled with dating, I opened up about that which was not very comfortable but I did it anyway. None of these is transactional they were things I did to try take the rough edges off a bit and hopefully what remained would be more valued. There is one thing I am missing: some success at this because I know if I had some I'd have foundations to build on.

Truthfully it would seem the only value I have to those I do like is purely transactional. Either take that or have nothing, those seem to be the only two options.

July 21, 2021

14 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

You *say* you would gladly have been with them. In reality, when an opportunity presents itself, you run. If you can't pin the person down as "an obese single mother," you say there was just something else somehow off. Be honest with yourself.

When someone is within 5 minutes telling me I am the most handsome man they have ever seen, yeah there is something off because if I was that I would not be a 37yo virgin. I maintain my judgement was correct there, added to which I did not find her that attractive, we had a few phone conversations and I just was not moved and I found the sweet talking very off putting actually.

I can think of perhaps 6 people I have met up with I would have loved to spend extended amounts of time with, where things felt right to me. Of those 6 I did end up spending time with them in the friend sense and those were good times, why would I not want more of something I really enjoyed?

July 21, 2021

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

When someone is within 5 minutes telling me I am the most handsome man they have ever seen, yeah there is something off because if I was that I would not be a 37yo virgin. I maintain my judgement was correct there, added to which I did not find her that attractive, we had a few phone conversations and I just was not moved and I found the sweet talking very off putting actually.

I can think of perhaps 6 people I have met up with I would have loved to spend extended amounts of time with, where things felt right to me. Of those 6 I did end up spending time with them in the friend sense and those were good times, why would I not want more of something I really enjoyed?

Like I said. You immediately reject anyone who might actually ask to touch you, kiss you, be near you.

This will NEVER be fixed, ZA, until you look it squarely in the face. Never. How many years has this been now? And how many dozens of pages per thread and how many dozens of threads?

Sign In

Catfish

Recommended Posts

ZA Dater

CaliforniaGirl

elaine567

ZA Dater

ZA Dater

ZA Dater

elaine567

ZA Dater

jspice

jspice

ZA Dater

ZA Dater

elaine567

ZA Dater

Weezy1973

ZA Dater

SumGuy

SumGuy

elaine567

jspice

ZA Dater

CaliforniaGirl

ZA Dater

ZA Dater

CaliforniaGirl

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...