When Is it Appropriate for Women to Make Date Plans?

[CollinW]

Just now, Marka said:

Organising a date is not the only way to be useful in a relationship neither for a guy nor for a girl. Some girl like masculine guys who enjoy taking charge while others are more than fine with more feminine guys. Nothing wrong in both of them, it is just what works for you better.

The initial effort that women put forth with initiation and planning is the same effort you'll get in all areas of dating and relationships. A woman isn't going to go from not thinking you're worth looking up a reservation for to being Mary Poppins when commitment starts. The least feminine women I've ever met were those who needed their femininity validated from what they label "taking charge" 

And planning dates isn't taking charge, the dating market is littered with beta males who would plot, plan, and pay for everything for nothing in return, and are all unsuccessful. 

[Miss Peach]

23 minutes ago, CollinW said:

You don't like having to be useful in a relationship? How is that working out for you? 

I am useful. Planning an initial date is hardly the only way to be useful in a relationship but I prefer a man who can lead and be decisive. Up until last week I had been dating 6 men I met in person (haven't had to resort to OLD), 3 wanted to be my boyfriend, 2 were seriously falling hard for me, and I accepted one of them as my boyfriend.

[Miss Peach]

2 minutes ago, CollinW said:

The initial effort that women put forth with initiation and planning is the same effort you'll get in all areas of dating and relationships. A woman isn't going to go from not thinking you're worth looking up a reservation for to being Mary Poppins when commitment starts. The least feminine women I've ever met were those who needed their femininity validated from what they label "taking charge" 

And planning dates isn't taking charge, the dating market is littered with beta males who would plot, plan, and pay for everything for nothing in return, and are all unsuccessful. 

I think mirroring effort is different than taking charge. I mirror initially so I can get a sense of the guy and what is on offer. it doesn't mean I don't add in a few nice things along the way to show appreciation.

[Marka]

4 minutes ago, CollinW said:

The initial effort that women put forth with initiation and planning is the same effort you'll get in all areas of dating and relationships. A woman isn't going to go from not thinking you're worth looking up a reservation for to being Mary Poppins when commitment starts.

I  am not making reservations and organising stuff in relationships either. I just say I am fancy that or that and let my guy organise stuff. And he is more than happy to do so cause he enjoys. I appreciate my man in other ways though like cooking him a nice meal or bake a cake for him, gifting small presents, making massages etc. There are a lot of way to appreciate a man and his efforts in relationship apart from organising and paying for a date. I don't go for guys who want me to do planning and organisation. Not my piece of cake. But I am quite traditional and get along with guys who are like that as well.

[dramafreezone]

4 minutes ago, Marka said:

I  am not making reservations and organising stuff in relationships either. I just say I am fancy that or that and let my guy organise stuff. And he is more than happy to do so cause he enjoys. I appreciate my man in other ways though like cooking him a nice meal or bake a cake for him, gifting small presents, making massages etc. There are a lot of way to appreciate a man and his efforts in relationship apart from organising and paying for a date. I don't go for guys who want me to do planning and organisation. Not my piece of cake. But I am quite traditional and get along with guys who are like that as well.

That's perfectly fine.  "Submissive" is a dirty word, but I do prefer women that make a decision to allow the man to take the lead.  You care for your man in other ways, that's perfectly fine.  What's not good is when she doesn't feel as though she has to do anything ever.

I'll still date a woman that asks me out and makes the plans,  or a woman that's more assertive in general.  I probably wouldn't get serious with a woman like that though.

[CollinW]

13 minutes ago, Marka said:

I  am not making reservations and organising stuff in relationships either. I just say I am fancy that or that and let my guy organise stuff. And he is more than happy to do so cause he enjoys. I appreciate my man in other ways though like cooking him a nice meal or bake a cake for him, gifting small presents, making massages etc. There are a lot of way to appreciate a man and his efforts in relationship apart from organising and paying for a date. I don't go for guys who want me to do planning and organisation. Not my piece of cake. But I am quite traditional and get along with guys who are like that as well.

You kinda just proved my point. You're expecting lifelong commitment from him towards organization and planning, and as a result he may get a cake when you feel like it lol. I don't personally see that as reciprocal or traditional. If you're traditional, are you submissive? 

I'm sure there are many men who tolerate that dynamic. But personally, the most unrewarding women I've ever dealt with are those who had this entitlement. Either men and women are generous and proactive in all areas of a relationship, or their lackluster in all of them. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by CollinW

[Marka]

1 minute ago, dramafreezone said:

That's perfectly fine.  "Submissive" is a dirty word, but I do prefer women that make a decision to allow the man to take the lead.  You care for your man in other ways, that's perfectly fine.  What's not good is when she doesn't feel as though she has to do anything ever.

I'll still date a woman that asks me out and makes the plans,  or a woman that's more assertive in general.  I probably wouldn't get serious with a woman like that though.

Exactly. There is a lid for every pot.

[Marka]

4 minutes ago, CollinW said:

I'm sure there are many men who tolerate that dynamic. But personally, the most unrewarding women I've ever dealt with are those who had this entitlement. Either men and women are generous and proactive in all areas of a relationship, or their lackluster in all of them. 

I am sorry to hear that you had such experience. Hopefully one day you will find a woman who will show you what I mean. Though it might be not for you. Everybody is different. If you prefer both genders having similar roles it is fine as long as you have a girl on the same wave with you.

 

By the way I would not want a man who tolerate this dynamic but rather a man to whom this dynamic is natural and he truly enjoys. There is no point of tolerating something, it is not healthy.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Marka

[dramafreezone]

6 minutes ago, CollinW said:

You kinda just proved my point. You're expecting lifelong commitment from him towards organization and planning, and as a result he may get a cake when you feel like it lol. I don't personally see that as reciprocal or traditional. If you're traditional, are you submissive? 

I'm sure there are many men who tolerate that dynamic. But personally, the most unrewarding women I've ever dealt with are those who had this entitlement. Either men and women are generous and proactive in all areas of a relationship, or their lackluster in all of them. 

We usually agree, but I do disagree on this part.  I have no issue taking the lead, planning, all of that stuff for a woman that I'm highly attracted to, is agreeable and adds to my life as opposed to being a drain on it.   I do value very much a woman that takes pride in caring for her man by cooking, cleaning, and who is a joy to be around most of the time.  Being around them is easy.

I don't think that translates to entitled.  What's entitled is when they want the man to do everything, but they behave like a spoiled brat more often than not.  That's a definite no go.

[SumGuy]

On 4/30/2021 at 8:55 PM, Alpaca said:

When is it common for women to initiate making plans for future dates after she's already been on a few dates with the same person?

Whenever you want.   There is no magic number.  Of course I am not the kind of guy that feels less than if she asks or reads anything into her asking other than she wants to go on a date (i.e. wouldn't assume she is desperate, or needy, or easy, or pick whatever other negative BS people put on women who can do).

Now if the men you seek may get bent out of shape or make unwarranted assumptions then ignore my answer..

[SumGuy]

On 4/30/2021 at 9:20 PM, Alpaca said:

I've seen a few posts where men do the initial pursuing, and when he doesn't or becomes a little flaky, I wonder if it's because he's waiting for the women to show more initiative.

Or, is it simply that he isn't interested any longer?

Depends, could be neither, either, could be both, could be he wanted sex by date three and after that lost interest...all sorts of reasons.   More importantly what is your interest?

[Shining One]

On 5/2/2021 at 1:30 PM, smackie9 said:

If the guy starts to falter that's when you ditch them, and it's not because you didn't initiate. They lost interest for whatever reason.

What if they lost interest because of her lack of initiative? I've moved several women from the "relationship potential" pile into the "sex-only" pile for lack of effort on their part.

[smackie9]

1 hour ago, Shining One said:

What if they lost interest because of her lack of initiative? I've moved several women from the "relationship potential" pile into the "sex-only" pile for lack of effort on their part.

Well that's just you. Looking back at my dating days I didn't have to take the initiative, I just showed enthusiasm when, talking, touching. I didn't have to offer up a date or suggest one.

I did ask guys out on a first date, tho. They were eager to see me again, and asked me out.

Edited May 5, 2021 by smackie9

[Alpacalia]

 

2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

  On 4/30/2021 at 6:20 PM, Alpaca said:

I've seen a few posts where men do the initial pursuing, and when he doesn't or becomes a little flaky, I wonder if it's because he's waiting for the women to show more initiative.

Or, is it simply that he isn't interested any longer?

2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Depends, could be neither, either, could be both, could be he wanted sex by date three and after that lost interest...all sorts of reasons.   More importantly what is your interest?

That's true. In those kinds of cases, I suppose the woman should also assess her own level of interest.

 

 

[SumGuy]

2 hours ago, Alpaca said:

 

That's true. In those kinds of cases, I suppose the woman should also assess her own level of interest.

Exactly, but I realize it is harder for women as some guys take you asking them out as some green light to get extra frisky.   

For the guy who asked if you'd like to go on a date, and you said yes...the ball really is in his court.  You gave him a clear answer so why he didn't follow up no idea, hard to think of a decent reason why he didn't follow-up if interested.   It's more like he wants you to chase him.  I'm against chasing period, him-her or her-him or they-they, etc.

[mortensorchid]

I would say ideally, the man should make plans in the initial stages of the relationship.  However, in my experiences, as the woman, I find myself always making the plans.  Say it's an OLD and we're going to meet, I would ask him where he lives or where he will be traveling to/from.  I say that we can meet halfway if it's a long distance, but 85% of the time it's always me who choses the place.  Of course, I never hear a word from any of them ever again after that so it's fine.  One guy said before he was bent out of shape because I was always the one making the plans and we were never doing things he wanted to do.  I asked him what that was so we can incorporate that into it, he said he didn't know and he fell back on my guidance again.  So I guess you can't win. 

I'm done.  I can't do it anymore.  I'm just not one of those people who should be with someone, I determined.  

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

Exactly, but I realize it is harder for women as some guys take you asking them out as some green light to get extra frisky.   

For the guy who asked if you'd like to go on a date, and you said yes...the ball really is in his court.  You gave him a clear answer so why he didn't follow up no idea, hard to think of a decent reason why he didn't follow-up if interested.   It's more like he wants you to chase him.  I'm against chasing period, him-her or her-him or they-they, etc.

Thanks, SumGuy!

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, mortensorchid said:

I would say ideally, the man should make plans in the initial stages of the relationship.  However, in my experiences, as the woman, I find myself always making the plans.  Say it's an OLD and we're going to meet, I would ask him where he lives or where he will be traveling to/from.  I say that we can meet halfway if it's a long distance, but 85% of the time it's always me who choses the place.  Of course, I never hear a word from any of them ever again after that so it's fine.  One guy said before he was bent out of shape because I was always the one making the plans and we were never doing things he wanted to do.  I asked him what that was so we can incorporate that into it, he said he didn't know and he fell back on my guidance again.  So I guess you can't win. 

I'm done.  I can't do it anymore.  I'm just not one of those people who should be with someone, I determined.  

I've made plans in the beginning stages of dating before but the guy was very proactive with asking me out and calling/texting several times daily and after each date so it kind of balanced itself out.

[Angelle]

On 5/4/2021 at 5:15 PM, CollinW said:

You don't like having to be useful in a relationship? How is that working out for you? 

If I'm interested in a guy, I don't want to feel "useful". I want to know that he wants to spend time with me. 

[Angelle]

I don't think in terms of "alpha" and "beta". I think all of that PUA/hunter-gatherer talk, has hurt guys, more than it's helped them. 

[Angelle]

On 5/4/2021 at 6:02 PM, CollinW said:

You kinda just proved my point. You're expecting lifelong commitment from him towards organization and planning, and as a result he may get a cake when you feel like it lol. I don't personally see that as reciprocal or traditional. If you're traditional, are you submissive? 

I'm sure there are many men who tolerate that dynamic. But personally, the most unrewarding women I've ever dealt with are those who had this entitlement. Either men and women are generous and proactive in all areas of a relationship, or their lackluster in all of them. 

And men have been known to shut a woman down, if they think she's too interested, too soon. Which wouldn't be a problem if they were actually interested in her, too. "She's chasing me, she must be desperate." That sort of thing. 

[smackie9]

It's not a man/woman thing to be shut down, it's a people thing of showing more interest than the other. it's a normal part of the dating process.

[Angelle]

18 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

It's not a man/woman thing to be shut down, it's a people thing of showing more interest than the other. it's a normal part of the dating process.

If I feel like I'm working too hard, then he isn't that interested. I know that goes both ways. 

[smackie9]

Just now, Angelle said:

If I feel like I'm working too hard, then he isn't that interested. I know that goes both ways. 

well then a decision needs to be made, that it's time to walk. Not worth using your energy to fight the inevitable.

[Shining One]

27 minutes ago, Angelle said:

If I feel like I'm working too hard, then he isn't that interested. I know that goes both ways. 

Define "working too hard". I know that for some, putting in any effort, even if it's 10%/90% in their favor, is working too hard.