spiderowl Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 Yep, sounds like a narcissist. You need a two-way interaction. Unless things change pretty rapidly with this guy, I'd give him a miss. 1
ExpatInItaly Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, BaileyB said: Why is it important to you that he is a “narcissist?” Why can’t you just say, he was not someone I wanted to date and as such, I’m going to let this go... That's what I don't get either. Someone can be a self-absorbed, rude person who's just not that interested in us without having a personality disorder. 5
balletomane Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 To be honest, OP, I get the impression that you're hurt he wasn't into you, and armchair diagnosing him on the Internet is your way to feel better about the situation. If lots of people agree he was a narcissist, you won't feel so bad. I get this impression because of some of your previous posts, not just this thread. Getting attached quickly to men who aren't that interested seems to be a pattern for you, and I think it's important to be honest about that. If you re-add a man who has just been dismissive and rude to you, you aren't showing kindness, you're showing a willingness to tolerate any behaviour if there is a chance it might lead to something romantic. Armchair diagnosing people isn't going to help you out of that trap. 6 2
poppyfields Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) Last night I watched the movie "9 1/2 Weeks" AGAIN. Highly charged sexual and erotic romantic relationship between a man and a woman. The male character (Mickey Rourke) clearly loved Kim Basinger (which we discovered at the end after she left him) but he could never tell her, nor did he ever ask any questions throughout the entire length of their relationship attempting to get to know her, as a woman, partner, human being. NONE. Why? Like Elaine said, was he a tortured narcissist? Fear of emotional intimacy? Who knows, in your case BB, it doesn't matter, you never even met the man. He's simply not a good fit, period end of. No need to block, that's an emotional reaction, and given you have never met, this should not be an emotional issue. Shouid he ever contact you again, you have two choices: 1. Silence (i.e ghosting). That IS your answer and a powerful one, I posted this on another thread too but I understand silence/ghosting now more than ever before. 2. Tell him this isn't the right situation for you and wish him well. Ignore any further texts/attempts on his part to talk you out of it. Value the experience and move on to the next. Edited May 2, 2021 by poppyfields 1
ExpatInItaly Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, balletomane said: I get the impression that you're hurt he wasn't into you, and armchair diagnosing him on the Internet is your way to feel better about the situation. Yes, this is my take on it too. 1
Author babybrowns Posted May 2, 2021 Author Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said: Yes, this is my take on it too. Easy to jump to this conclusion but it is not this. I was already prepared to and did delete the man a few days after we first got talking, was easy for me, no harm done. The main reason I am a bit annoyed about this now, is that when I was leaving, he reeled me back in with falsities and voice notes sounding sincere, saying he was interested. It being early days and too early to make a firm judgement, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I also gave him the heads up when re-adding him that I would observe whether he meant what he said about actually being interested. And surprise surprise, he ended up meaning none of it. So I was left feeling a bit like an idiot in his eyes. I wanted to wait till it had been a full week since we started talking to cut things off the second time round permanently, hence end of Sunday. And yes, the wait till end of Sunday was accompanied by a curiosity into the psychology of this man’s extremely strange behaviour. I do have an interest in mental disorders since my father is a psychiatrist and I studied mental health as a module at university. So my curiosity in seeing what narcissism looked like as it was happening, when in the past I’ve only realised it afterwards (being a trusting person and letting my emotions cloud logic with men in the past), played a big part here. And I wasn’t playing any “cruel tricks” as a user here said or anything: the deal agreed with him was that if he showed me more interest than he had been, I would keep him as a contact. He broke his side of the deal. Simple. Edited May 2, 2021 by babybrowns
BaileyB Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, babybrowns said: The main reason I am a bit annoyed about this now, is that when I was leaving, he reeled me back in with falsities and voice notes sounding sincere, saying he was interested. He didn’t reel you back in. You chose to stay involved. It was your decision, not his. 11 minutes ago, babybrowns said: It being early days and too early to make a firm judgement, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Was this before or after he got angry with you and sent you a scathing response? 11 minutes ago, babybrowns said: So I was left feeling a bit like an idiot in his eyes. So this is about your ego being bruised. 11 minutes ago, babybrowns said: I wanted to wait till it had been a full week since we started talking to cut things off the second time round, hence end of Sunday. You are playing games. 11 minutes ago, babybrowns said: So my curiosity in seeing what narcissism looked like as it was happening As we have all said, you can not say that this man is a narcissist. 11 minutes ago, babybrowns said: the deal agreed with him was that if he showed me more interest than he had been, I would keep him as a contact. He didn’t play the game you set up, which means he is done. And you, get to feel pretty pleased with yourself because you identified and avoided this “narcissist.” Whereas most other women would have ended it after he got angry and behaved inappropriately, you kept him around and rejected him in the end! You really got him! Edited May 2, 2021 by BaileyB 1
poppyfields Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, babybrowns said: The main reason I am a bit annoyed about this now, is that when I was leaving, he reeled me back in with falsities and voice notes sounding sincere, saying he was interested. It being early days and too early to make a firm judgement, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I also gave him the heads up when re-adding him that I would observe whether he meant what he said about actually being interested. And surprise surprise, he ended up meaning none of it. So I was left feeling a bit like an idiot in his eyes. Bolded - this sounds quite heavy-handed BB, there was no need to say any of that. Like he's your child who did a "bad" thing and now you're monitoring him. IMO that could have been why he turned off. Next time say nothing and simply observe his actions. Also, you have no idea if he sees you as an idiot now. He might see you heavy-handed and controlling telling him you were going to monitor his behaviour, like you were his mother and him your child. If you're gonna give him the benefit of doubt, stay quiet and simply observe his actions. Edited May 2, 2021 by poppyfields 1
glows Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 The whole thing got more awkward and inappropriate after you re-added him. I think your comments about observing him were a passive aggressive f-you and it was quite transparent (not so secretive). Most people would be turned off seeing something like that. Anyway, I think this guy cancelled himself out and he wasn't that serious about dating you to start. He was just a texting buddy or someone to pass the time. He doesn't sound very enticing or interesting as a date. Onwards.
Versacehottie Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, balletomane said: To be honest, OP, I get the impression that you're hurt he wasn't into you, and armchair diagnosing him on the Internet is your way to feel better about the situation. 1000%^^^^^ OMG 1000% And/or that he isn't approaching her in some pre-determined way that he can't mind read. To be fair, I saw as much self-absorption in things the OP has done in the playing out of this scenario as anything he did. He might be socially a little daft but I don't think one word responses to questions he did ask the OP are much better on her part. His part was no more cringeworthy than hers to be honest. Then there is the admonishing him before you've ever met that he needs to try harder--wow that's nuts. Just drop him--he's a stranger--if you aren't interested, don't be interested. Then let him back in only to keep a running tally of all the stuff you hate about him--before you've even met. It's odd and persnickety. Extremely rigid and kind of disingenuous. If you don't like him and aren't giving him a real chance, let him go. Don't answer him. Unmatch. I definitely feel like this is a thread to make the OP feel better both in her getting to complain (much like the other thread) and feel like she's better than this guy. It's actually not making you look better than this guy. It's making you look like you need a time out on dating and a wakeup call. OP, you can easily CHOOSE where to focus your attention. Tearing this guy to shreds, hanging on when you should have cut it off, slapping on unproven labels and simply not moving on to better things--all this is transparent of what you are focused on. I can't quite believe you have given it this amount of attention. All of this is a reflection on you. Edited May 3, 2021 by Versacehottie 3 1
ExpatInItaly Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, babybrowns said: So my curiosity in seeing what narcissism looked like as it was happening You are completely unqualified to even make this assessment. Having an interest in mental health and taking one university module does not equip you to assess anyone's mental health, espeically someone you have never met. You would be be wise to stay in your lane here. I think you need to reflect on your own behaviour and choices here. You take very little accountability and conjure up all sorts of odd theories as to why you participated and in fact helped manufacture this drama. Say whatever you like to excuse your actions, but it very much reads as though you have a hard time accepting this guy wasn't that interested in you and you're trying to make yourself feel better by carelessly classifying him as personality disordered. It all says a lot more about you than it does about him. Edited May 3, 2021 by ExpatInItaly 3
Taramere Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, babybrowns said: And yes, the wait till end of Sunday was accompanied by a curiosity into the psychology of this man’s extremely strange behaviour. I do have an interest in mental disorders since my father is a psychiatrist and I studied mental health as a module at university. So my curiosity in seeing what narcissism looked like as it was happening, when in the past I’ve only realised it afterwards (being a trusting person and letting my emotions cloud logic with men in the past), played a big part here. And I wasn’t playing any “cruel tricks” as a user here said or anything: the deal agreed with him was that if he showed me more interest than he had been, I would keep him as a contact. He broke his side of the deal. Simple. Have you discussed this with your dad? I think there are plenty of people out there who are narcissistic enough for it to create some problems in their relationships, and problems for anybody they're in a position of power over who nonetheless wouldn't meet the criteria for having Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I'm a bit on the fence about some of the "don't you go diagnosing people - you're not qualified to do it" advice you're getting. If it were specifically "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" that were under discussion then yes. But NPD isn't really being mentioned. We're just talking about narcissism...and i'm kind of with you in the belief that actually no, you don't have to be a psychiatrist to figure out whether somebody's a bit of a narcissist. Not only are we allowed to make these judgement calls in order to make social and romantic decisions, but sometimes we really need to make them. But we need do it as people making a judgement call on whether we like somebody's personality - rather than as though we're clinical practitioners assessing somebody's mental health. The only place for that sort of assessment is within clinical practice where you have proper training and supervision, and where you have no sort of personal relationship with the person you're assessing. A potential problem here, as a lot of posters are observing, is that you seem to have a particular interest in narcissism just now...and it seems as though you're viewing this guy as a bit of a case study. When you've got any sort of emotional investment in a situation, and particularly if the other person's behaviour is annoying you, it can become tempting to start pathologising them...and I don't think education about human behaviour and psychology necessarily prevents people from doing that. Indeed, it might make it a bit too easy and tempting to pathologise other people inappropriately. This is why it's vital that people who work in mental health have proper supervision. Having professional training and a qualification doesn't immunise people from losing their objectivity/making bad calls....and having a bit of knowledge/interest in a particular mental health area without also having the proper training and supervision to prevent inappropriate application of that knowledge/interest can be detrimental to other people and also to your relationships with them if you start trying to adopt a position of "clinical assessor" in what is supposed to be a social situation. I think people here are trying to pull you away from this stance of trying to view this guy in a "clinically interested in his behaviour" way, and I think they have good cause. Edited May 3, 2021 by Taramere
Negotaurus Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 If we are going to talk about narcissistic traits, then looking in from the outside, sounds like you share more of those traits than the guy you were messing around with for your own sake. You now choose to go online and, quite honestly, bash him and gossip because things didn't go the way you wanted them to. That is my opinion. 1 1
Wiseman2 Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) Have you read the book "He's Just Not That Into You"? Probably better dating guidance than the DSM5. That way you can see who's interested vs wasting time. Unless luring men on dating apps into chitchat as psychiatric specimens is some type of hobby? Edited May 3, 2021 by Wiseman2 2
BaileyB Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: Have you read the book "He's Just Not That Into You"? Probably better dating guidance than the DSM5. This just started my day off with a laugh... So true! 1
peach302 Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 Its not like she's committing the guy to a mental asylum . So i don't share the same views as others on here. Although personally i would have left the situation alone..since its pretty much over and she has no intention of getting back in contact with him.
vla1120 Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 I was married to a clinically diagnosed NPD (and yes, he was quite charming and attentive in the beginning.) Your guy just sounds more like he's self-absorbed and perhaps has a script he's following with people he meets online - blasting you with photos, videos, a meme here and there, but never really investing any time in truly getting to know you, then criticizing you when you indicate you're looking for more. Swipe left!
Pumpernickel Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 13 hours ago, babybrowns said: I also gave him the heads up when re-adding him that I would observe whether he meant what he said about actually being interested. – He may have interpreted this as you being overly needy.
chillii Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) lsn't everyone a narc these days . At any rate , wth would you even wanna keep talking to someone like him for , and dozens of pics and vids of himself , just wth . Spose there's all sorts out there. Edited May 3, 2021 by chillii 1
peach302 Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 11 minutes ago, chillii said: lsn't everyone a narc these days . At any rate , wth would you even wanna keep talking to someone like him for , and dozens of pics and vids of himself , just wth . Spose there's all sorts out there. People get confused between narcissistic traits and actually having the disorder (NPD). Its next to impossible to build anything of substance with someone who has the disorder unless you want to start questioning your own sanity and don't mind being abused constantly.
GeorgiaPeach1 Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 On 4/30/2021 at 4:55 PM, babybrowns said: Hello all, A week ago, I matched with a new guy on an online dating site. We’ve been texting a bit since then. I have my suspicions that this man might be a narcissist and I just wanted to float them here to see if other users agree: - he hasn’t asked me 1 single question about myself. He still doesn’t know what I do for a living. All of our texts, are about him. He sends me voice notes about what he’s up to that day too. - the same day that we matched and started talking, he sent me 20 pictures of himself (pictures of him at work, which was the excuse he used since I’m also interested in that field). - He also sent me a couple of videos of himself on the day that we got talking, including one of him and his dog. - I have made the suggestion to him twice, that we do a phone call instead of texting/voice notes which is all we have been doing. He has ignored this request completely. When I quizzed him on why he seems to be avoiding a call, he said he’s just quite busy these days getting ready to move house. His replies are also very late to my messages. Due to the lack of 2-sided interest, especially based on him not asking one single question about me, communication with this man has naturally been rather dull for me and pointless. I thus wanted to end this association and I deleted him as a contact. I sent him a final message saying that I’m not getting enough interested vibes from him, and that I suspect he might be looking for something a little more casual than what I’m looking for which is to build a genuine connection with someone. But he was quick to reel me back in, saying that he is “just a slow mover” and that he *is* interested and “not looking for something casual” and that I “shouldn’t react so extremely { in terms of delete as contact}- in that way I’ll drive away any guy and he is saying that purely for my own benefit not having a go at me”. His manner when he was saying this last bit especially had quite a sharp edge to it which made me uncomfortable. I am very close to blocking this guy out permanently since so much is turning me off. But I am giving it a few more days to see if he does express a little more interest/does suggest a call since there are some things that I do like about him that are making me want to see this through a bit more. Does this sound like a narcissist? Not enough information to determine whether he's a narcissist or not, but I definitely gather that this guy does not plan on sticking around long-term. The attitude of men like this is why bother learning what makes you YOU and what makes you tick, if it will not matter in a few days, weeks or months because he'll be gone? He's sending all those pics of himself so that you'll find him attractive enough for intimacy. Also, he's not calling you because he's probably sending the same texts/voice notes to multiple women.
smackie9 Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 I lived it...my mother is a Narcissist. It's was a horrible, painful upbringing, and today our relationship is so strained. Even talking to her on the phone is emotionally draining, and sometimes I'm just reeling from it for hours afterwards. Narcissists come off as charming at first, I call it phony nice. This is the cloak they wear in public. But behind closed doors, those who are close get the full brunt of it's ugliness. The grandiose thing yes can be a sign, but there is much much more, like the gaslighting, verbal abuse, condescending underhanded criticism, etc. But most often that's hidden from public view. Most Narcissists and psychopaths are difficult to recognize because they are so charming, and easy to talk to. If I told any of my mom's friends what she's really like they would never believe me. 1
normal person Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 On 5/1/2021 at 5:13 PM, babybrowns said: Because I want him to realise it, rather than him just putting this experience down to general incompatibility. He’s bright but he has zero Inter-personal awareness. I can save him from the next girl bolting Why? What's the logic behind this? If you're so concerned he's a narcissist, won't this just teach him how to manipulate the next woman better? Why help him when he could potentially hurt someone else or waste their time (if you're so worried about it)? If he can't be bothered to care or show interest in any one else, then why not let it be his problem to figure out, not some other woman's to deal with? I don't know why you'd want to give a helping hand to someone you think is clearly terrible. If he was interested in someone, he'd ask. Why help him tread water in the dating pool when he's the type of person no one should be subjected to? All you'd be doing is teaching him how to feign interest for his own gain.
introverted1 Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 The issue isn't whether this guy is a narcissist or has narcissistic tendencies. That's just a diversion from looking at the part of dating you control, BB, and that is yourself. In this case, I would agree that you've interacted with this guy and created this thread here on LS as a way of establishing that he's the "bad guy" in the scenario. And maybe he is a bad guy, or at least socially inept. But that doesn't mean your actions have been good or helpful to your goal, which is to find a worthy man to date. His "badness" doesn't make it ok for you to play armchair psychologist. And even if someone had the magical power to definitely diagnose him with narcissistic tendencies, what would that do for you? How would that change the illogical way you've approached this scenario, how would it give you back the emotional energy you've wasted on "diagnosing" someone you are never going to meet? I'm pretty sure you are going to justify your actions with assertions about your interest in psychology but I think most of us see through that. And, even if true, it's completely inappropriate! You should be focused on improving you - what do you need to do in your own life, how do you need to modify your own choices and actions to ensure better dating outcomes. This guy is irrelevant and the more time you spend on him, the more you delay getting to a point where you can have dating success. I think many of the women who post on LS want to villainise guys who are not into them, as this allows them to shift the focus away from their own behaviors. More often than not, the blame is shared. You can only work on what you control, which is your picker, yous responses, your actions. 4
BaileyB Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, introverted1 said: I would agree that you've interacted with this guy and created this thread here on LS as a way of establishing that he's the "bad guy" in the scenario. I think there is a lot of trusty in what you say. The focus is incorrectly placed on debating whether this guy is/is not a narcissist when the problem here is OP’s decision to keep this guy around longer than she should have and waste her time and energy on a man that does not help her to achieve her goal of finding a relationship. Personally, I think a lot of this stems from the fact that she needs to feel validated in her decision to not pursue this relationship. BB has difficulty ended relationships (even when she is exploring a “potential” relationship partner, and there are obvious red flags). It’s easier to feel justified in making that decision when she can clearly identify something “wrong” with the other person. I believe that was the purpose of all of this - he displayed behavior that should have eliminated him as a potential partner. But then,he “reeled her back in” and she gave him another chance... BB just has so much difficulty saying no. This helps her to feel more secure in letting this opportunity go.
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