Dating Dilemma

[Nissu]

Hi All,  I am experiencing a dating dilemma & could really use some advice, insights and opinions!  Background - I am a divorced mom of 2 college aged boys and in my late 40s.  I have been divorced since 2016 and am in a good spot in my life work-wise and have a nice home.  During my marriage, my ex-husband was a complete deadbeat, refused to file tax returns or pay taxes & was a one guy part-time landscaper so there was zero financial stability from him (this history plays into my current dilemma).  I was the one with a good job, bought the house, had retirement savings & saved college money for our kids.  For the last 3 yrs I have been seriously dating a divorced dad who is very financially stable but lacks a lot of empathy & emotional intelligence but treats me well and we have a lot of shared values & interests.  However, in November 2020, after dating for 3 years he declared he did not want to remarry ever & since this was non-negotiable for me, we parted ways amicably and both of us were hurt but we stayed in touch regularly. 

In February 2021, I met someone new and started dating guy#2.  When I told my ex that I was moving on & met someone, he did a 180 and declared he wants to get married & doesn't know why it took me leaving for him to realize this.   This sent up red flags to me - I felt that he changed his mind because I was moving on & not because he genuinely wants to marry me.  I told him how I felt and for the past 2 months he has tried to convince me his feeling are real, but I have been dating guy #2 and it is getting serious.  I feel like guy #2 is my unicorn!  He has been the most considerate, empathic, caring guy I have ever dated.  But I have learned of several red flags related to his finances......he was arrested for writing a bad check 7 years ago, has no savings, no retirement or pension, was a victim of embezzlement (approx $60,000 lost over 3 yrs) but never pressed charges for restitution; he is also a one-guy contractor and has an iffy tax situation.   His financial instability is making me very nervous to move forward with him.  It reminds me so much of what I experienced with my ex-husband, I am considering breaking up with him since we have only been together for a few months but he is everything I ever wanted emotionally in a partner.  

My dilemma - does it sound like I am putting too much emphasis on guy #2's financial instability....OR too much emphasis on his empathy & am overlooking his financial red flags?  He is also 50 yrs old & if he got hurt or his equipment breaks down, his  job/project doesn't get done so no income.  At our ages, financial stability is extremely important to me.  Guy #1 has a great pension, stocks, a nice home, and stability but I do not feel that he "gets" me like guy #2 has shown.   Guy #2 has already made some changes to his business to address one of my concerns & he did it with no arguing/disagreement which is another reflection of his great attitude.  But what do you all think of the bad check arrest & financial instability of guy#2?  Would those be automatic dealbreakers for most?   Thanks for reading :)

[introverted1]

I think you have to write a lot of bad checks and/or for huge amounts in order to be arrested.

I also think that it's fishy he claims he was embezzled for $60k but opted not to press charges. That's a lot of money, especially for a guy with no savings or pension.  Something doesn't add up.

Not sure what you want to do with guy#1, but I definitely would not do anything with guy#2 that involves merging households and/or merging finances.

[Gaeta]

Forget about guy number 2 !!! OMG, Yes 100% deal breaker. We're not talking about a speed ticket here, we're talking criminal offense, he must have a criminal record? And of course he's sweet to you! the man has nothing under his feet!! You are the perfect woman for him!! 

If guy number 1 is unable to build a strong intimate connection with you then start looking for guy number 3. 

 

[glows]

Can you not leave Guy #2 and take a time out for awhile? 

Don't get married so quickly even if you do rekindle with Guy #1. I would be questioning what changed for him because realizing that you were gone isn't a good reason to flip that switch unless he was just lonely and forlorn. It's also crickets in the time of covid? Many people have chosen to hold off dating and the dating pool has significantly reduced to a lot of weirdos and strange characters. I wouldn't be surprised if he's going through a dry spell and cracked. 

Be wary but I really do not think Guy #2 is an option at all. I'm sorry to say that.

[Uruktopi]

No one of both seem to be good enough. 

Unless you have reasons to foresee serious improvements in someone, dont´t  settle for less than you want.  

The third best one may be ahead in time.

Best wishes,

[Sun Seeker]

They should both be dropped. You are settling with either one and you know it.

Find the third.

[spiderowl]

I am struck by how similar your experience is to mine, except that I haven't met guy no 2.

I have stopped seeing guy no 1 because of lack of empathy but he is a sound guy in lots of other respects.  I am just sad that wasn't enough.

I can't tell you what to do but in your position I would be just as worried about guy no 2's financial situation as you are.  Although your own situation is much better now, why would you want to carry someone else again, however nice he is? 

[Ami1uwant]

Behind door number 3......

[Ami1uwant]

First guy who said he didn’t want get married ...did you ever ask why he said that? Was it an about face from stuff he said?

 

why do you say he has no empathy?

[Alvi]

I will vote for neither. How about finding a candidate #3? Neither of these guys sound that appealing to be perfectly honest. 

4 hours ago, Nissu said:

  For the last 3 yrs I have been seriously dating a divorced dad who is very financially stable but lacks a lot of empathy & emotional intelligence but treats me well and we have a lot of shared values & interests.  However, in November 2020, after dating for 3 years he declared he did not want to remarry ever & since this was non-negotiable for me, we parted ways amicably and both of us were hurt but we stayed in touch regularly. 

So that Bozo wasted 3 years of your life before  finally letting you know that he doesn't want to remarry? You should be furious with him, since he probably knew the entire time that he never wants to get married ever again. 

4 hours ago, Nissu said:

When I told my ex that I was moving on & met someone, he did a 180 and declared he wants to get married & doesn't know why it took me leaving for him to realize this.   This sent up red flags to me - I felt that he changed his mind because I was moving on & not because he genuinely wants to marry me.  I told him how I felt and for the past 2 months he has tried to convince me his feeling are real, but I have been dating guy #2 and it is getting serious. 

Now that you are far out of his reach he suddenly wants you? Yeah, right, lol. Unless he presents you with an engagement ring and a specific date and time and place for you two to get married, no, just say no to him. He never said anything expect an indefinite maybe to you so far.  Saying that he wants to get married means what exactly?. Words are cheap. Ask yourself what is going to change if you two get back together yet again? Would he string you along for 3 more years perhaps? If he couldn't make up him mind during the three years that he wants to marry you, highly unlikely that he ever will. 

4 hours ago, Nissu said:

I feel like guy #2 is my unicorn!  He has been the most considerate, empathic, caring guy I have ever dated.  But I have learned of several red flags related to his finances......he was arrested for writing a bad check 7 years ago, has no savings, no retirement or pension, was a victim of embezzlement (approx $60,000 lost over 3 yrs) but never pressed charges for restitution; he is also a one-guy contractor and has an iffy tax situation.   His financial instability is making me very nervous to move forward with him.  It reminds me so much of what I experienced with my ex-husband, I am considering breaking up with him since we have only been together for a few months but he is everything I ever wanted emotionally in a partner.  

He sure is a unicorn as you've stated. A very rare breed indeed.

Arrested for writing a bad check, no savings, a victim of embezzlement but for some reason never pressed charges, iffy tax situation. How does it all happen to one person? Bad luck, bad decisions? Where did you find such a prize? I am kidding, he is not a prize. You should run away from him like your hair is on fire!!! Whatever you do, DO NOT MOVE FORWARD WITH HIM.

4 hours ago, Nissu said:

He has been the most considerate, empathic, caring guy I have ever dated. 

OK, if you say so. Is it possible he is just mimicking you and telling you whatever you want to hear at this point? I mean, he sure is smooth, it took him only two month to convince you to fall madly, deeply in love with him despite all bad things about him. Of just looking for a sugar mama? Have you discussed how he would afford to pay his share when you decide to move in together? I have a strong feeling that he expects you to pay yours and his share as well. 

5 hours ago, Nissu said:

At our ages, financial stability is extremely important to me. 

As it should be.

5 hours ago, Nissu said:

Guy #1 has a great pension, stocks, a nice home, and stability

But he never made any specific plans for a future marriage. If you want a marriage, ne is not the right guy for you.

5 hours ago, Nissu said:

"gets" me like guy #2 has shown.

Like I've said above, are you sure he "gets" you or just agrees with whatever you say and tells you whatever you want to hear. He could also be mirroring you. For example, you say you like diving, he also tells you that he likes diving. You like a bubble gum he also tells you that he loves that specific bubble gum. It's like he is trying to get into your good graces so you would overlook some bad stuff about him. You don't probably need someone who gets you a 100% Probably will never happen to be honest. You just need someone compatible and who shares your long term goals and visions.

 

 

 

[Versacehottie]

you lost me on $60k embezzled....that's is a character flaw.  It will keep popping up in various ways.  I would recommend NOT betting your future on that guy.

Idk know what to do about no. 1 or a potential no. 3....I don't think you need to rush to make that decision though. IMO, if you're main hesitation on no. 1 was that he didn't want to get married, then maybe give that another chance.  But it sounds like you've been awaken to what you can get emotionally and he doesn't really give that to you.  I'm wondering if he was keeping you at arms length to avoid marriage talks? He sounds like he might realize what he is potentially losing, so I'm wondering if he will be more open now that he sees future/potential loss of you differently?  

And of course, no. 3 could be the perfect one. Good luck

Edited April 29, 2021 by Versacehottie

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, Nissu said:

......he was arrested for writing a bad check 7 years ago, 

Sorry this is happening. Run .

Dating is to get to know someone. The good, the bad and the ugly.

 Mr. Felony is charming because he's a con artist.

That doesn't mean you have to date cold fish, but continue to do your homework on people.

Stop talking remarriage. In fact if you are finally in a good position financially, why jeopardize that?

It would be best to consult with your accountant and financial advisor and estate attorney about the folly of remarriage when you own your home and have adult children.

[Blind-Sided]

15 hours ago, Nissu said:

......

My dilemma - does it sound like I am putting too much emphasis on guy #2's financial instability....OR too much emphasis on his empathy & am overlooking his financial red flags?  ...

Nope... you are right to be concerned.   While you can't look at someone without a pension and savings as a "Red Flag" on it's own... the other money issues are not something you want to be part of.  Writing bad checks, and tax issues are REAL and will effect you if you marry him. 

OK... after my D... I didn't really have anything.  I gave the exW the retirement fund we had (and assumed our outstanding debt) so I could buy her out of the house.   The day she handed me the key... I only had a few thousand $$ to my name.  And now with COVID... I haven't had any means to rebuild. (There hasn't been any bonus's available)   But it doesn't mean I'm not thinking about what needs done to fix that. 

If you get tied up with someone like guy #2... you may find you are taking care of a leach in a few years. or worse... bailing him out of jail. If you like him... that's fine... but get a STRONG prenup before ever considering marriage. 

As far as guy #1... don't go back.  It took a real threat, and you messing up your life for him to change his mind. 

[d0nnivain]

You can teach somebody good financial management, responsibility.  But you can't overcome criminal tendencies.  

If you think guy # 1 isn't asking for the right reasons & he didn't treat you as well as guy #2,  #1 is not your guy. 

So like almost everyone else here I vote for guy # 3.  Perhaps take a little time off.  Breaking up after 3 years in November then jumping in by February wasn't really an adequate period of reflection.  Have a fun single summer.  Reconnect with your female friends.  Enjoy your kids.  See where you are come fall.  

[Nissu]

Everyone - Thank you so much for the replies!  I think I should give more context to guy #2 & see if that changes anything....almost 11 yrs ago, he left a career that had stability & great benefits (he was a teacher for 15 yrs) to pursue something he really enjoyed in the construction field.  He does own a duplex home and rents one half which is a smart financial move.  The embezzlement has much more behind it....he dated a girl who did his books & after breaking up she continued to handle them & he didn't pay attention & she was making purchases for herself on his business account.  When he realized what was going on, he freaked & reported to the police then she offered to start paying him back, sent him one payment of $1500 and then the police/prosecution said his acceptance of the payment meant they couldn't prosecute.....but I really don't know if there is more to it than this & I don't understand how acceptance of a small payment ends any prosecution. 

Also the bad check incident supposedly was for $250 at a local merchant; I did confirm it is common for local businesses to get warrants when checks bounce & are not replaced;  the county requires the merchant to send a demand letter for the bounced check via Certified letter return receipt required as proof of delivery; if no response in 10 days the merchant can go to the sherriff for an arrest warrant.  This happened when the embezzling girl & he were still dating but before he was aware of the embezzling.  She was handling his business affairs & he swears he never got a certified letter & was shocked he ended up arrested; she claimed to know nothing but he now believes she signed for the certified letter & was aware the check bounced & tossed the bank notices, etc.   

I keep thinking that had the girl not embezzled some of the financial issues would not have occurred & he would be in a much better place.  Nothing in his personality or actions in the time I've known him indicate he has any ongoing criminal issues and he truly treats me exceptionally well.   His iffy tax situation really revolves around the nature of contractor business and cash jobs. In theory by not reporting all the cash, taxes are lower but on paper it would look like he made little income....leading to difficulty getting loans and also social security benefits being calculated on under-reported income.  I lived this tax situation with my ex-husband and it was one of the reasons we divorced so I told guy #2 he has to change that & see an accountant.  He completely agreed and now has a plan to deal with the cash & a tax strategy.  Its a big & costly change for him but he did it without any fighting or disagreement.

Does any of this additional detail change perspective for anyone?  I agree with everyone that if I look at the bad check & embezzlement alone, I want to run.  But in context of what happened, I almost feel like he overlooked red flag with  the girl he was dating.  I don't want to walk away from what has otherwise been a great relationship.  But also at 50 yrs old, I definitely want and need some kind of stability that I do not see guy #2 offering with his current work situation.  

 

[smackie9]

Do you really NEED to get married? no. Do you need to have joint accounts? no. Do you need to have your both your names on the land title? no. You need to protect your fiances and should never share them with a man at this stage in your life. You worked way too hard for that. You are not 24 years old where you are just starting out. He can keep his money, you keep yours. Don't need to find someone to co-mingle your money with. Find someone that can support themselves, and treats you the way you expect to be treated....start looking for guy #3.

Edited April 29, 2021 by smackie9

[Nissu]

13 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

First guy who said he didn’t want get married ...did you ever ask why he said that? Was it an about face from stuff he said?

 

why do you say he has no empathy?

Hi Ami1uwant - Yes it was an about face from when we first got serious & I did ask him why he changed his mind....he said he just doesn't think he could go through another marriage (he was divorced twice).  I was shocked because I had made it clear from day one I eventually wanted to re-marry & I felt he should have told me he changed his mind so I could decide to either move on & find someone who wanted what I was looking for or stay in the relationship on his terms.  He just could not see my point of view that I was mad & hurt he didn't tell me he changed his mind.  This is just one of the examples of his lack of empathy - he tends to see his point of view and struggles to understand others' perspectives. 

[smackie9]

If you do decide to get married, have a prenup assigned. deadbeat guys can suck you dry. I already know someone who is going through a rough separation. She is probably going to end up paying him alimony when the divorce is finalized. He is purposely not earning any income. And they lost everything because of him.

[Nissu]

12 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

you lost me on $60k embezzled....that's is a character flaw.  It will keep popping up in various ways.  I would recommend NOT betting your future on that guy.

Idk know what to do about no. 1 or a potential no. 3....I don't think you need to rush to make that decision though. IMO, if you're main hesitation on no. 1 was that he didn't want to get married, then maybe give that another chance.  But it sounds like you've been awaken to what you can get emotionally and he doesn't really give that to you.  I'm wondering if he was keeping you at arms length to avoid marriage talks? He sounds like he might realize what he is potentially losing, so I'm wondering if he will be more open now that he sees future/potential loss of you differently?  

And of course, no. 3 could be the perfect one. Good luck

Thank you Versacehottie!  This bolded part - guy #1 has already made significant efforts to show me he does not want to lose me and has taken major life steps to move forward with me.  With what he has done and shown, I am not ready to give up on him.  He is a really good guy even if not a great listener or very emotionally supportive.  Guy#2 has been a wake up call for what Guy #1 lacks emotionally for sure!  

[Nissu]

19 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Forget about guy number 2 !!! OMG, Yes 100% deal breaker. We're not talking about a speed ticket here, we're talking criminal offense, he must have a criminal record? And of course he's sweet to you! the man has nothing under his feet!! You are the perfect woman for him!! 

If guy number 1 is unable to build a strong intimate connection with you then start looking for guy number 3. 

 

@Gaeta - thank you!  I was floored to say the least when guy #2 told me.   I added more detail about the bad check & embezzlement in the thread - does that change your perspective?  Guy #1 is putting in a lot of effort to repair things & move forward together so I feel things are improving with him.  

[Nissu]

14 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I am struck by how similar your experience is to mine, except that I haven't met guy no 2.

I have stopped seeing guy no 1 because of lack of empathy but he is a sound guy in lots of other respects.  I am just sad that wasn't enough.

I can't tell you what to do but in your position I would be just as worried about guy no 2's financial situation as you are.  Although your own situation is much better now, why would you want to carry someone else again, however nice he is? 

@Spiderowl - thank you!   This bolded part - yes exactly!    Even if guy #2 had savings and a solid financial ground, the nature of his work is precarious.  He could have one injury or a piece of equipment goes down and he loses the job/project or worse is critically injured and becomes disabled.  Had I met him when I was 30 I wouldn't even be thinking this way but at 50, it is a worry.  

[Versacehottie]

15 minutes ago, Nissu said:

Thank you Versacehottie!  This bolded part - guy #1 has already made significant efforts to show me he does not want to lose me and has taken major life steps to move forward with me.  With what he has done and shown, I am not ready to give up on him.  He is a really good guy even if not a great listener or very emotionally supportive.  Guy#2 has been a wake up call for what Guy #1 lacks emotionally for sure!  

And maybe that was his sole purpose to come into your life?  If people (general, not "you") thought less linearly, and more multi-layered about the stuff that happens to them and the people that come into your life and go out, I think it would be better.  I'm convinced some people come into your life not to BE the relationship you are supposed to be in or a "failure" if it ends up breaking up, BUT to sometimes teach you about yourself....so you can be more whole, more on target, more ready when the right person enters your life.

There are even little stories of the "wrong" person sort of pushing you toward the right person.  In retrospect it will all make sense, I'm sure.  Sometimes it's just a path or a catalyst to get you where you need to be or have your eyes open to what you should be seeking.  Like if I was in your situation, I might go back to bf #1 because now HE'S changed due to the path YOU took.  You can easily verify if this is the case with him in spending time together again. And YOU and now aware of how you can get emotionally fulfilled and what you need from a relationship.  You can then "test" that in the new improved #1 and if he still cannot fulfill, you can move on to someone else.  But maybe the only purpose of guy#2 in your life was for you to realize what is possible and what you want in that area with a partner.  

I have to be honest with all the other stuff guy#2 has going on, I think that might be his only purpose.  He doesn't seem to align with you on so many other important life values that will become more important as the relationship develops.  Filling emotionally fulfilled and understood, could pale in comparison if resentment sets in because he is not a suitable partner for you, in terms of pulling his weight and gaining your respect for how he manages his life. Or if he brings the troubles in his life into yours--which is very likely to occur.  About him, all I have to say is it's probably easier to be emotionally "there for you" when he basically has nothing else going on!  And if I'm really being real about it, maybe you are just his latest scam.  I mean...that is more of his history--that he looks for the easy way out and to ride on someone else fraudulently for financial support, so it's not that much of a stretch to believe he could be doing the same with you. Maybe even subconsciously.  I'm sure when he explains his "new girlfriend" to people, your financial stability or got your stuff together comes into the benefits he lists about you, probably a top benefit. How would that make you feel? Like he is about to lean on you or take from you when needed. It's certainly not because he's impressed that you won't need to lean on him--because he couldn't support that anyway. He's not an equal in that regard; it worrisome.  Should make you worry about his character and 100% about what the future would hold. It's a no brainer to me to get rid of this guy. Good luck

[Gaeta]

I don't beleive his story. 

We have American Customers that bounce checks often and we don't go through the trouble of having them arrested for $250, if that's even a real thing in the US?

Not reporthing cash job isn't an accounting thing, it's illegal, it's hiding taxable revenues to the government, again that is a criminal activity. 

This guy sounds rotten to the bone. Does he have a criminal record? About you look into it, you may find surprises there. 

[introverted1]

41 minutes ago, Nissu said:

The embezzlement has much more behind it....he dated a girl who did his books & after breaking up she continued to handle them & he didn't pay attention & she was making purchases for herself on his business account.  

$60K is a LOT of not paying attention!

 

Quote

When he realized what was going on, he freaked & reported to the police then she offered to start paying him back, sent him one payment of $1500 and then the police/prosecution said his acceptance of the payment meant they couldn't prosecute.....but I really don't know if there is more to it than this & I don't understand how acceptance of a small payment ends any prosecution. 

In your OP,  you said he chose not to press charges.  

Quote

was a victim of embezzlement (approx $60,000 lost over 3 yrs) but never pressed charges for restitution

Did his story change?

[d0nnivain]

1 hour ago, Nissu said:

Does any of this additional detail change perspective for anyone? 

If she embezzled from him it does not track that he would be arrested for taking money from his own company.  There's more to this story then you understand or that he is revealing.  rather than change anything for me, it solidifies for me that he's not to be trusted financially.  His relationship with money -- not having any savings now -- is you repeating the pattern that rightly broke up your marriage.  Why do you want more of that in your life.