How much contact prior to first meeting?

[basil67]

11 minutes ago, Redguitar35 said:

You consider my friend showing just showing up to work to do what he's being paid to do and some gal developed a crush on him there being him making a "ton of effort"? That was easy compared to online dating. Again, you've never done online dating. You also didn't go try to go out and socialize during a pandemic where everyone's got face masks on. You had it easy, so you're not in a position to judge. 

Nobody has been able to go out and socialise during the pandemic.  It's extraordinary times and many people are on hold.  

As for me having it easy, I've been divorced, I've had long term relationship breakups, I've flirted and it's led to nothing, I've had unrequited crushes, I've been to many a house party and met nobody.  I've had sex with guys who I thought were interested but was mistaken.  Yes, I have a long term partner now, but don't assume that others have all had smooth sailing. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by basil67

[d0nnivain]

2 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

. How is that even remotely fair?

Life isn't fair.  Yes, I know that is a cliche but it's still true.  

I realize with Covid OLD & the apps are all there is but I always found them to be the worst place to meet a quality person. I never had problems meeting people in real life but when I found myself single in my late 30's "everybody" said I should do OLD so I tried it.  I lasted 90 days.  It was awful.  It was demoralizing at best but I didn't get a lot of matches; many men were unacceptable & the 3 I did meet were not worth my time.  I was disgusted.  

What other options do you have to meet people?  Can you walk around your neighborhood & see if you see somebody you find interesting multiple times?  Can you get involved in a club surrounding an interest of yours to meet people?  Can you volunteer somewhere to meet like minded people?  Do you have friends like your best friend, whose GF may have a friend she can introduce you to?  

Unfortunately if you get angry & hold on to resentment, both will inhibit your ability to find a relationship.  

Edited April 29, 2021 by d0nnivain

[Redguitar35]

13 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Life isn't fair.  Yes, I know that is a cliche but it's still true.  

I realize with Covid OLD & the apps are all there is but I always found them to be the worst place to meet a quality person. I never had problems meeting people in real life but when I found myself single in my late 30's "everybody" said I should do OLD so I tried it.  I lasted 90 days.  It was awful.  It was demoralizing at best but I didn't get a lot of matches; many men were unacceptable & the 3 I did meet were not worth my time.  I was disgusted.  

What other options do you have to meet people?  Can you walk around your neighborhood & see if you see somebody you find interesting multiple times?  Can you get involved in a club surrounding an interest of yours to meet people?  Can you volunteer somewhere to meet like minded people?  Do you have friends like your best friend, whose GF may have a friend she can introduce you to?  

Unfortunately if you get angry & hold on to resentment, both will inhibit your ability to find a relationship.  

All that in real life stuff is dead because of COVID. And I wasn’t having much luck with volunteering , yogas, asking friends, bars or random approaches before the pandemic either. Online dating was a last resort. But since that’s not working out, probably a sign to give up on women and dating altogether. It’s just not working out. It’s just not meant to be. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Redguitar35

[Happy Lemming]

Many years ago, I did try on-line dating (briefly) and it was complete crap.  The pictures posted were photo-shopped, women lied about their age and the list goes on and on.

Personally, I went back to meeting people in real life.  I do understand that some places are still on lock down.  Prior to the pandemic, did you ever try speed dating??  I just checked and the Speed Dating service in my area is back up and running.  You may want to check your area.

As a side question, do you have the ability to approach women and talk to them in "real life"??  How is your game/skillz??

[Redguitar35]

2 hours ago, Happy Lemming said:

 

As a side question, do you have the ability to approach women and talk to them in "real life"??  How is your game/skillz??

Women do not enjoy being approached by random men in random public places, especially with masks on everyone's faces. Not gonna do that. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Redguitar35

[Happy Lemming]

4 minutes ago, Redguitar35 said:

Women do not enjoy being approached by men in random public places, especially with masks on everyone's faces. Not gonna do that. 

I was talking to a woman at a dog park just the other day.  She was throwing the ball around with this dog with short little legs, but boy could he run. 

I was just walking by and thought her little dog was so cute.  We had a nice conversation and we were both wearing masks.  I didn't pursue her, as I already have a girlfriend, but I could have very easily asked her out.

Are you afraid to talk to women in public??  Do you know how to start a conversation with a woman??

What about "speed dating" in your area??  Is that open??

[cleverusername]

8 minutes ago, Redguitar35 said:

Women do not enjoy being approached by men in random public places, especially with masks on everyone's faces. Not gonna do that. 

Disagree, I approach and get approached by women all the time. Even during the pandemic.

Stepping away from women for a moment, what are your hobbies/interests?

[Redguitar35]

6 hours ago, Stupidkupid said:

Thats your view. I dont like ghosting but a woman (and, indeed, a man) is entitled to change their mind. They agreed to a date. They've changed their mind. This is their right.

You don't get to condone it or not. Who are you? The date police? You can not like it, sure. But this and your other post stinks of "poor me" and its worth stepping back and taking a look at it. This is dating. This is not a third or fourth date, this is date one. It happens. Get over it. Adjust your approach. I don't know. But you're not entitled to replies. And you're not entitled to meet people.

Do I think they should ghost you? No. But your view that they can't cancel? Thats entitled and its wrong.

Won't be responding to this thread again but good luck to you.

People who cancel are bad people. End of story. 

[Redguitar35]

[redacted]

Quote

Stepping away from women for a moment, what are your hobbies/interests?

Photography. Not that anyone cares. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[cleverusername]

1 minute ago, Redguitar35 said:

Wow, an anecdote. That's helpful. 

Photography. Not that anyone cares. 

Dude thats a golden ticket! First, I would join a local photography club and see if you can meet any women there. Don't force it but maybe you find someone you click with and share a common passion, you could both visit X location for a photo safari.

 

Secondly, go to a local beach or park or whatever and tell women, men, families, etc. you're working on your portfolio and want to use them as subjects. If if they agree take their picture. If you run into a cute woman, and she's ok with you taking her picture, tell her it came out beautifully and you want to send it to her when you get back home. Ask for her number to send it to. Go home, send her the picture of her, ask her out. I used to do it all the time. 

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, Redguitar35 said:

Photography. Not that anyone cares. 

I think the posters (here) are trying to help.  We are trying to tell you that it is possible to talk to women in a public setting, that your belief that women do not want to be approached in public is false.

Do you want to learn how to talk to women in a public setting or do you want to continue to struggle with on-line dating??

Edited April 29, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
altered quote to reflect edited content

[Redguitar35]

17 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

I think the posters (here) are trying to help.  We are trying to tell you that it is possible to talk to women in a public setting, that your belief that women do not want to be approached in public is false.

Do you want to learn how to talk to women in a public setting or do you want to continue to struggle with on-line dating??

I don't think it's false. Every time I've approached a woman in public they act like they didn't want to talk to me. Yoga class. The pool. The airport. The grocery store. You name it. Not to mention the fact that you don't even know if these women are single. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Redguitar35

[Happy Lemming]

13 minutes ago, Redguitar35 said:

Not to mention the fact that you don't even know if these women are single. 

If they are not single, they will tell you... fairly quickly and what have you lost, anyway... a few words.

Again, I'll ask about "speed dating"... The women at those events are single and looking.  Have you ever been to a "speed dating" event??  Do you want to try one??  If nothing else, you would get practice talking to women...

[Happy Lemming]

On 4/28/2021 at 8:28 PM, Redguitar35 said:

Women do not enjoy being approached by random men in random public places...

@Redguitar35 I did a little experiment this morning.  I went for a walk and went past my local dog park in my small little town.

I approached the first woman I saw.  Tall, brunette... late 30's walking her dog.  I just walked up to her (still keeping 6 feet apart) and asked her if her dog was a Brittany Spaniel.  She said "yes"... I told her I had one as a small boy and they were great dogs, good temperament, faithful, loving, etc.  I asked her if it was OK to pet her dog, she said "sure" and she lengthened the retractable leash.

Turns out the dog's name was "Popcorn" we talked for a while, she told me how long she had lived in our little town and we chit-chatted about various subjects.  I ended it with, "Well I hope I get to see you & Popcorn, again"... She said "Me too".  I could have easily gotten her number and asked her out.  But I didn't want to take it too far, as I'm in a long term relationship.

For the record, I never had a "Brittany Spaniel" as a boy and just made that up to continue to conversation.

So contrary to your statement that women do not enjoy being approached by random men was just proven wrong.  I think you have to pick a subject that the woman wants to talk about and you can't be forceful or threatening.  You have to present like a happy, normal, well rounded individual.  You do have to develop some game/skillz!!

[dramafreezone]

On 4/27/2021 at 7:14 PM, Redguitar35 said:

OLD. I’ll try to schedule a first meeting as soon as possible — like either the next day or the day after. But women always seem to insist on like 5 days in future because they’re busy.
We get the date scheduled and the I leave them alone. At the same time, they don’t reach out to me either. Then I follow up with them a day before to see if we’re still on. Of course they usually flake and cancel. 
Is it because I don’t text enough in between scheduling the date and the date itself? How much texting do women expect prior to the first date? Am I supposed to be doing more to maintain their interest before the date happens??

Your first error is trying to make a date the next day after matching.

When women say they need to set a date 5 days from now, they're not lying.  They have dates to go on, and they expect the guy they like also has dates to go on.  When you show them that you don't, then they'll probably lose attraction to you.   Maybe women don't like players but they also don't like men that no one else wants.

I'll put it like this, what if you called into your dentist's office to set an appointment, and they told you "we have openings all day today, come on in."  Would you go?  Or would you have questions about why most dentists have a 2 week waiting list and this one doesn't?  Would it make you question the quality of care this dentist provides?  People may disagree, but unfortunately social proof is a real thing.  We have a tendency to like what other people already like.

You were probably done with the first error.  Your last error was trying to confirm the date.  Why would you ask her if you're still on for the date?  You set the date didn't you? 

If you're going out with your friends, do you call them to ask if you're still on?  It makes it seem as if you get canceled on a lot.  If you get canceled on, something must be wrong with you.  If all of these other people think something's wrong with you, then something must be wrong with you and I don't want to deal with it either, so I'll flake...this is what's going on in her mind.  It's the same psychology that drives the review system with Amazon for example.  You showed up as a 3-star review with your insecurity.  Are you buying the item that's rated 3-stars or are you going to look for the 5-star item?

When you meet matches on OLD most times you're hanging by a thread anyway, so these signs of insecurity will usually result in flakes.  

Set dates out a week in advance, and if you must confirm, say "look forward to seeing you tonight" and that's it.  Don't ask her if she can still make it.

Edited May 4, 2021 by dramafreezone

[dramafreezone]

On 4/28/2021 at 9:07 PM, Redguitar35 said:

I don't think it's false. Every time I've approached a woman in public they act like they didn't want to talk to me. Yoga class. The pool. The airport. The grocery store. You name it. Not to mention the fact that you don't even know if these women are single. 

Who cares if they're single?  No woman is going to be wearing a scarlet letter signifying that she's single, first of all.  Also, it's irrelevant.  Maybe she's technically with someone but it's towards the end of the relationship and she's just looking for someone new that she likes better.

I've done a lot of speed dating and it's really not a great way to meet women.  Many times, a woman that's coming to do the event (the single one) will bring a friend that's just doing it with her to be a good friend, so most times the ratio of available men to women is out of whack.  If say there are 10 men and 10 women, usually only 5 or fewer of those women will be single.  

It is an excellent way to get comfortable talking to them as someone else mentioned.  Go speed dating and just learn to be comfortable talking to women and detach yourself from the results.

[Gaeta]

For what it's worth, I am a woman and I find it flattering when a man approaches me, even if he's not my type and I decline his number, I still find it flattering and pretty brave on his part. If they approach me in a gentleman kind of way I would never be mean toward them. I will simply pretend I have a boyfriend and tell them I'm flattered.

[Happy Lemming]

2 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

It is an excellent way to get comfortable talking to them as someone else mentioned.  Go speed dating and just learn to be comfortable talking to women and detach yourself from the results.

This is actually a really good idea!! Use "speed dating" as an exercise to learn to be more relaxed & comfortable when talking to various women.

Hone your craft... Figure out what subjects will elicit questions, curiosity, etc.  If you flub up with a particular woman, who cares, the bell rings at 8 minutes and you are on to the next.

 

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

If they approach me in a gentleman kind of way I would never be mean toward them. I will simply pretend I have a boyfriend and tell them I'm flattered.

I would agree with this... 99.9% of the time, when a woman isn't interested, she is polite with a "No, thank you" or "I have a boyfriend".  It is extremely rare that the woman is rude or dresses you down.

As a side note, I did a second experiment this morning where there was no dog involved. One poster seemed to think my prior experiment was flawed as I used the dog to initiate the conversation with a woman in public.  This morning, I was working in my front yard trimming my large mesquite tree and struck up a conversation with an unknown woman (estimating she was in her early 40's) walking by on her morning walk.  I assume she lived somewhere in my neighborhood, but I did not know her, & never saw her before.  As she passed me, I started out with a "Good Morning" and was able to easily strike up a conversation.   Although we stayed 6 feet apart, we talked for about 20 minutes, she asked me various questions about a wide variety of subjects and even told me an amusing story that happened to her, recently.  I did look at her ring finger and saw no ring, so I am assuming she was not married.  She could have had a boyfriend, but she didn't mention it in our 20 minute conversation.

[Filler]

This is what I'd do if I were you, since I'm a girl this is what I'd prefer men to do as well. I'd talk to her and ask when she is available for a date, once the date has been set up, if she has set the date further away, use that time to get to know her and let her warm up to you as a person. Ideally you'd wanna set the date after she warms up to you and gets to know you and you show genuine interest in her. Unlike men, women need time to get to know a guy because we're not turned on by a mere picture, not always. Only if you're a top model or an actor which they have been showing on TV for years, and we already know who you are because we watched your interviews, so if you're not that then allow her to warm up to you! Talk to her as much as you can! Trying seem busy and uninterested to increase her interest only makes things worse. Women are not turned off by availability unlike men. We women prefer not wasting time. And finding out if you click together or not asap is better than pretending to be busy and taking forever to exchange texts, and then having her flake out on a date since she hardly got to know you.

[Filler]

On 5/3/2021 at 5:20 PM, dramafreezone said:

Your first error is trying to make a date the next day after matching.

When women say they need to set a date 5 days from now, they're not lying.  They have dates to go on, and they expect the guy they like also has dates to go on.  When you show them that you don't, then they'll probably lose attraction to you.   Maybe women don't like players but they also don't like men that no one else wants.

I'll put it like this, what if you called into your dentist's office to set an appointment, and they told you "we have openings all day today, come on in."  Would you go?  Or would you have questions about why most dentists have a 2 week waiting list and this one doesn't?  Would it make you question the quality of care this dentist provides?  People may disagree, but unfortunately social proof is a real thing.  We have a tendency to like what other people already like.

You were probably done with the first error.  Your last error was trying to confirm the date.  Why would you ask her if you're still on for the date?  You set the date didn't you? 

If you're going out with your friends, do you call them to ask if you're still on?  It makes it seem as if you get canceled on a lot.  If you get canceled on, something must be wrong with you.  If all of these other people think something's wrong with you, then something must be wrong with you and I don't want to deal with it either, so I'll flake...this is what's going on in her mind.  It's the same psychology that drives the review system with Amazon for example.  You showed up as a 3-star review with your insecurity.  Are you buying the item that's rated 3-stars or are you going to look for the 5-star item?

When you meet matches on OLD most times you're hanging by a thread anyway, so these signs of insecurity will usually result in flakes.  

Set dates out a week in advance, and if you must confirm, say "look forward to seeing you tonight" and that's it.  Don't ask her if she can still make it.

Ugh no, this is so silly to even read. As a woman I wouldn't care how unavailable he was as long as he was the right type of a man. We women don't care about that staff. You could have 10 dates but if she doesn't like who you are she will give zero Fs. If you're let's say Harry Styles and straight let's say and you're available 24/7 she will go on a date with you in a heartbeat! Why? You're handsome, easy to talk to, funny, laid back, confident. If you have other women you're interested in that's a huge turn off since men supposed to pursue and show why she is the one out of so many. Why he prioritizes her and not so many other women. If you wanna impress a woman make sure that you're interested in her and no one else. This is why women try to show she only likes that one guy, she fears that she might lose interest if he finds out about other men she might be dating. And it's totally fine to see if she is going on a date knowing how often women cancel in general. That's for his own good, women will think nothing of it, other than him being very punctual and responsible.

[introverted1]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:28 PM, Redguitar35 said:

Women do not enjoy being approached by random men in random public places, especially with masks on everyone's faces. Not gonna do that. 

Not true.

I talk to people - men AND women - all the time when I'm out. Learning to be able to strike up banter with a stranger is a useful skill.  Plus it's fun - makes waiting in line at the supermarket or DMV or wherever less tedious. And you get to talk to some interesting people, even if you don't want to date them (or they you).

Learn how to start conversations with people, not just women, and then when you see a woman you'd like to get to know, you'll have the skills to strike up a conversation with her.  As you talk, you'll get cues as to her interest.  Not all of them will be, of course, but that shouldn't matter because even if they are not interested or married or whatever, you'll have enjoyed a brief exchange while practicing your conversational skills.

 

[DatingMom]

I think everyone is different when it comes to dating etiquette. For me, when I start chatting with a guy online, and after three exchanges he asks me out, I generally decline for a few reasons:

1) As he clearly at this point knows so little about me, I assume that the only reason he wants to meet is because he likes how I look. Since I want to date someone who likes my looks as well as my personality, I decline meeting men who are only interested in looks.

2) I get a lot of interest on dating apps. Interest in the sense of matches, and guys sending me first messages. It would be impossible to meet everyone. And honestly, I only want to meet someone in person if I get a good sense that this might not be a waste of time. In order to achieve a sense of that, I need to communicate with that person regularly for a few days. By regularly I mean that for 3-4 days at least, we would be having a daily one hour text exchange where we get to know each other. He would definitely have reached the point of having my phone number before we meet because we would have been communicating so much that we would have switched over to texting on the phone because messaging on the app would have become too complicated/slow. 

Don't get me wrong though: I hate when things are drawn out too much. I don't want to be texting forth and back for two weeks and not meet, unless there's a good reason. 

3) I have a busy life, so I am generally not available just like that at the drop of a hat. I'm also a planner, and well-organized, and therefore like to plan my schedule a week in advance. So, a date would have to be planned at least 4-5 days in advance, and I would need regular/daily interesting communications building up to the date. If I don't hear from a guy for days before, or if the interactions before the date are boring, I will cancel. 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, DatingMom said:

I would need regular/daily interesting communications building up to the date. If I don't hear from a guy for days before, or if the interactions before the date are boring, I will cancel. 

Bam! Right to the point. Agree, good advice for guys to consider.

[dramafreezone]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:54 PM, Filler said:

Ugh no, this is so silly to even read. As a woman I wouldn't care how unavailable he was as long as he was the right type of a man. We women don't care about that staff. You could have 10 dates but if she doesn't like who you are she will give zero Fs. If you're let's say Harry Styles and straight let's say and you're available 24/7 she will go on a date with you in a heartbeat! Why? You're handsome, easy to talk to, funny, laid back, confident. If you have other women you're interested in that's a huge turn off since men supposed to pursue and show why she is the one out of so many. Why he prioritizes her and not so many other women. If you wanna impress a woman make sure that you're interested in her and no one else. This is why women try to show she only likes that one guy, she fears that she might lose interest if he finds out about other men she might be dating. And it's totally fine to see if she is going on a date knowing how often women cancel in general. That's for his own good, women will think nothing of it, other than him being very punctual and responsible.

That's fine and you can have your opinion.  Every observation that can be made about a woman (from a guy's perspective) will be met by some women saying "that's silly" or "not all women...."

Anyways, you're speaking from the standpoint of your ideal guy.  Of course your ideal guy could do every single thing wrong and still not really cause you to lose attraction.  Take whoever your ideal guy is, he could slip on banana peels all day and act like a complete goofball and you're still going to give him a lot of chances.   But the guy you went out with because you had nothing better to do on a Wednesday night?  He's not going to get all of the chances that the ideal guy got, but he still DOES have a chance.

 

Quote

If you have other women you're interested in that's a huge turn off since men supposed to pursue and show why she is the one out of so many. Why he prioritizes her and not so many other women. If you wanna impress a woman make sure that you're interested in her and no one else

Empirical evidence so clearly and conclusively contradicts this idea. How much a man has to "impress" a woman simply depends on his viable options (and it's the same way for women).  Most highly desired men (entertainers, athletes, high level corporate executives) date multiple women at a much higher rate than average men.  The women that are dating them don't seem too turned off by it.  Additionally, they are HAPPY to be one of many women to date that high value guy rather than be devoted to one above average guy that will dote on her forever.

Edited May 8, 2021 by dramafreezone