I'm unsure whether he's looking for something casual despite him saying he's open to a relationship

[willnotdoit]

Had been talking to this guy for a few months prior to the meeting. He said he is open to a relationship but not with anyone (same). I ended up thinking that he was a bit too forward in the kindest way and I had gotten out of a relationship a month or so beforehand. We had some really great chats. I think he took it a bit negatively and blocked me on social media. I had noticed that he unblocked me on social media so I reached out saying it was probably a miscommunication. He responded positively and we had our first date. Said to me to come to his which we did, we ordered food to his (very gentlemanly sort of guy), attracted to each other, great chats again and we went on a little evening picnic. We both have similar interests in academic stuff. We only kissed that night. I got to his around 6pm and left almost 12 hours later. He offered that I could stay the night but we could sleep in separate rooms or he was happy to drive me home but it was late, so he ordered an uber for me. We both are quite busy and we had our second date a few weeks later. He said it would be nice to hang again. A few days before our second date, he asked what I was up to one evening and offered movie night in pjs.

Anyway, the second date comes, I got to know him a bit better and he mentioned that we're quite similiar. Joked that we both mumble a lot. Ended up sleeping together, not a selfish person, cuddled afterwards and had our good chats. Date went really long like last time and I got an uber home. He messaged me asking if I was okay and to send me the details of the driver. We have been in contact via social media a bit since.

I'm just unsure whether he should be the one that expresses what he wants in person or do I mention that this is what I'm after. He works till the evenings throughout the week and weekend so it seems that I can only see him after work hours.

**TL;DR** guy treats me very well in person, we get along well, he's apparently open to a relationship but unsure.

[prince0fgame]

I think you did everything perfectly. A lot of women would hold back on the sex part thinking it would somehow cause the guy to magically discover his romantic feelings. Of course this strategy does not work because the guy will just think "Okay so my relationship with her is just her holding back out of fear and using sex as a power tactic. Do I really want this?" Most of the time, the answer is no.

I think the best thing you can do is just show genuine interest and let the chips fall where they may. That's right. No tactics. No seduction moves. Just be real and accept what comes. 

It takes a strong person with no ego-protection to act this way. But in the long run, it's the healthiest and most honest way of going about in your relationships. 

Just enjoy it for what it is. Live in the moment. Don't hold anything back. And if he doesn't want a commitment, then oh well, you move on. 

The true mark of romance is not what you can secure in the future (this is fear based thinking), but rather, how magical it was in that fleeting and encapsulated moment. 

Of course, there are also long term implications as well. If you feel like you are getting too attached and do not want to risk it without a firm commitment from him, then I believe it is within your right to have that talk eventually before you develop real feelings. 

I understand women need to protect their emotions as well. At some point, you will need to have that talk. But keep in mind that the less protective you are, the more attractive you are. It's a balancing act. You don't want to be too jaded and closed off. But you also do not want to give and not get anything in return. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by prince0fgame

[willnotdoit]

2 minutes ago, prince0fgame said:

I think you did everything perfectly. A lot of women would hold back on the sex part thinking it would somehow cause the guy to magically discover his romantic feelings. Of course this strategy does not work because the guy will just think "Okay so my relationship with her is just her holding back out of fear and using sex as a power tactic. Do I really want this?" Most of the time, the answer is no.

I think the best thing you can do is just show genuine interest and let the chips fall where they may. That's right. No tactics. No seduction moves. Just be real and accept the what comes. 

It takes a strong person with no ego-protection to act this way. But in the long run, it's the healthiest and most honest way of going about in your relationships. 

Just enjoy it for what it is. Live in the moment. Don't hold anything back. And if he doesn't want a commitment, then oh well, you move on. 

The true mark of romance is not what you can secure in the future (this is fear based thinking), but rather, how magical it was in that fleeting and encapsulated moment. 

Of course, there are also long term implications as well. If you feel like you are getting too attached and do not want to risk it without a firm commitment from him, then I believe it is within your right to have that talk eventually before you develop real feelings. 

I understand women need to protect their emotions as well. At some point, you will need to have that talk. But keep in mind that the less protective you are, the more attractive you are. It's a balancing act. You don't want to be too jaded and closed off. But you also do not want to give and not get anything in return. 

Thank you for your kind words. I've personally never thought that how quickly you sleep with a man is indicative of how he'll treat you/how committed he will be. But rather, how you hold yourself *outside* of the bedroom and how he does as well. I've known numerous girls that have been engaged more than once and they slept with their partner only after months, doesn't really show that he'll be committal. I'm open to seeking flack from other comments regarding this but this is just my thoughts only.  

[d0nnivain]

You are still too skittish to be dating.  

Talking to somebody for "months" before meeting is a problem.   You were only 1 month out of a relationship when you began talking to him. You are not emotionally ready. 

Going to a man's house as the 1st date is bad move.  It's like serving yourself up as dessert.  You say you didn't have sex but showing up at all, not requiring any effort on his part tells him you don't value yourself enough that you aren't worth the effort. Having a 1st date that lasts 12 hours is also an indication that you have weak boundaries at best.  A first date should be 1-2 hours if not shorter.  

Then you have sex on the second date.  

I'm not judging you for making an adult choice.  I am cautioning you that in the eyes of many men your willingness to engage in early sex telegraphs to them that you are not relationship or marriage material.  In that sense your fear that he's not going to want a relationship with you are probably well founded because you didn't act like somebody who wants a relationship; you acted like somebody who was DTF & open to a NSA casual thing so that is what you are going to get.  

All in all you made it all too easy for him except for the long lead up.  When a man doesn't have to put in effort, he doesn't value the interaction.  

[prince0fgame]

8 minutes ago, belladun said:

Thank you for your kind words. I've personally never thought that how quickly you sleep with a man is indicative of how he'll treat you/how committed he will be. But rather, how you hold yourself *outside* of the bedroom and how he does as well. I've known numerous girls that have been engaged more than once and they slept with their partner only after months, doesn't really show that he'll be committal. I'm open to seeking flack from other comments regarding this but this is just my thoughts only.  

If you get flack, it would probably just be from jaded people. Some women in the past have slept with a guy right away only to get played. So they did the opposite. They would make guys jump through hoops for sex...and they would STILL get played. That's because players can play the waiting game too.

Having sex too soon vs withholding sex is not going to save you from players. The players know the entire game book, lol. They know all the defenses women put up (Trust me, I would know). It is your CHARACTER that saves you from players.

If you are a type of person who is open and honest, then you will attract people that are open and honest. And whether sex happens in a day or two weeks is irrelevant. 

You are a grown adult. Sex is an adult thing.

It's not really a big deal.

The big deal is the romantic chemistry. 

That's the elephant in the room.

When there is romantic chemistry, it just works. 

And I believe romantic chemistry starts with yourself.

If you love yourself, you will attract people who will love you. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by prince0fgame

[willnotdoit]

3 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

You are still too skittish to be dating.  

Talking to somebody for "months" before meeting is a problem.   You were only 1 month out of a relationship when you began talking to him. You are not emotionally ready. 

Going to a man's house as the 1st date is bad move.  It's like serving yourself up as dessert.  You say you didn't have sex but showing up at all, not requiring any effort on his part tells him you don't value yourself enough that you aren't worth the effort. Having a 1st date that lasts 12 hours is also an indication that you have weak boundaries at best.  A first date should be 1-2 hours if not shorter.  

Then you have sex on the second date.  

I'm not judging you for making an adult choice.  I am cautioning you that in the eyes of many men your willingness to engage in early sex telegraphs to them that you are not relationship or marriage material.  In that sense your fear that he's not going to want a relationship with you are probably well founded because you didn't act like somebody who wants a relationship; you acted like somebody who was DTF & open to a NSA casual thing so that is what you are going to get.  

All in all you made it all too easy for him except for the long lead up.  When a man doesn't have to put in effort, he doesn't value the interaction.  

This is why I told him he was being a bit pushy a few months ago during our lockdown as he wanted to meet at his. I didn't like that. The first date, he offered that we could meet at this first and go from there or meet in public, I didn't think meeting at his would be the worst decision. 

[d0nnivain]

2 minutes ago, belladun said:

This is why I told him he was being a bit pushy a few months ago during our lockdown as he wanted to meet at his. I didn't like that. The first date, he offered that we could meet at this first and go from there or meet in public, I didn't think meeting at his would be the worst decision. 

I understand that Covid lock downs don't afford many dating opportunities but going to a man's house early on has been a bad idea since forever.  If you thought it was too pushy earlier in your interactions, why did it become acceptable when you did it?  If you say it's because you had been talking for months you are naïve.  You don't actually know somebody until you meet. A first meet, no matter how long you have been talking, texting or video chatting, should always been in public.  That is basic safety 101

[Alpacalia]

Agree, with @d0nnivain.

When a person jumps into sex, you jeopardize your chances of maintaining a relationship and friendship based on other qualities you want him to be drawn to.

You've only been single for a month. You must take your time. I understand the allure when you feel like you might really benefit from having someone by your side. But, no matter how "good" it feels, I strongly advise against it.

I would also not take someone seriously one month fresh out of a relationship.

[willnotdoit]

6 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Agree, with @d0nnivain.

When a person jumps into sex, you jeopardize your chances of maintaining a relationship and friendship based on other qualities you want him to be drawn to.

You've only been single for a month. You must take your time. I understand the allure when you feel like you might really benefit from having someone by your side. But, no matter how "good" it feels, I strongly advise against it.

I would also not take someone seriously one month fresh out of a relationship.

Oh I've been single as of November 2020. 

[prince0fgame]

7 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Agree, with @d0nnivain.

When a person jumps into sex, you jeopardize your chances of maintaining a relationship and friendship based on other qualities you want him to be drawn to.

You've only been single for a month. You must take your time. I understand the allure when you feel like you might really benefit from having someone by your side. But, no matter how "good" it feels, I strongly advise against it.

I would also not take someone seriously one month fresh out of a relationship.

I think a lot of women have this perspective. And I want to knock the wind out of its sails.

I want to break this preconceived notion once and for all.

I knew this girl named Monica. She was feminine, and compassionate and charming. I sensed that from the moment I met her. I slept with her the very first week and it did not change my opinion about her one bit. 

I knew this other girl named Lena. She was fun, easing, and also protective. We had sex 3 months in and it didn't make me see her other "qualities". 

In my experience, there is no correlation between a person's personality and character and how fast I sleep with them.

Monica is not going to be any less compassionate, feminine, and charming because she slept with me right away. At the same time, Lena is not going magically make me see her as anything else just because we waited 3 months to have sex. 

Your vibe is in your presence. It shows up right away. You cannot hide it. People can pick up on it right away. If @belladun is a vibrant woman, she is going to be a vibrant woman whether she sleeps with a guy the first date or the 10th. 

You cannot contrive a vibe out of using sex as a hoop to jump through. It doesn't work ladies. 

Whatever you are is what you are right when we first meet you. 

[Alpacalia]

29 minutes ago, belladun said:

Oh I've been single as of November 2020. 

I misread. Sorry.

Well, now that you've slept with him, seems you're a bit confused on what you're both doing.

What would you like to see happen?

[willnotdoit]

9 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

I misread. Sorry.

Well, now that you've slept with him, seems you're a bit confused on what you're both doing.

What would you like to see happen?

No problem! I would definitely like to see him again but I would like to see him a bit more than once a week ideally to see if we both like each other and go from there. 

[Alpacalia]

39 minutes ago, belladun said:

No problem! I would definitely like to see him again but I would like to see him a bit more than once a week ideally to see if we both like each other and go from there. 

Okay, then.

You'd like to have more of his time now.

The only reason I brought up sex is because knowing where you fall on this trait will help you decide if having sex sooner or later is the best approach for you, particularly if you're not sure whether someone's interested in casual or more serious relationships.

You can always date other people until you find someone who really wants to see you more often, or you can suggest a get together and see what he thinks.

[elaine567]

3 hours ago, belladun said:

He works till the evenings throughout the week and weekend so it seems that I can only see him after work hours.

If true and he s not lying, then it sounds like he is too busy to date anyone.

[willnotdoit]

26 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

If true and he s not lying, then it sounds like he is too busy to date anyone.

Thanks. He hasn't voiced this but this is what I think at least. 

[Wiseman2]

Doesn't he drive? Why do you have to go to his place then take Uber home?

You're right that how early sex may happen doesn't always negatively impact the situation.

However you also mentioned "what happens outside the bedroom", and in this case nothing has happened outside the bedroom.

He just sits on his butt in his place and snaps his fingers for you to get yourself there and have sex.

Step back. Let him get off his heiny and meet up for a real date. 

 The first clue was "open to a relationship". This is the basic netflix and chill type hookup guy.

[diana9]

I don't like that part going to his place for a first date. You can still take a walk or grab a coffee outside and if you go to his place immediately you make it too easy for him. 

[cleverusername]

Guy here. My personal opinion is women who jump straight into sex are a turn off. It takes the fun out of the "chase", especially when women hit on you a lot. You want what you can't have and you want to earn it. If everyone owned Lamborghinis and Ferraris, they would lose their novelty. Sex is the Ferrari of the early relationship. If you're looking for a hook-up no judgment, but if your looking for something long term I would hold back, and I would not go to a first date at someone's house. I can come up with way better and more creative date ideas than my place if I truly wanted to get to know a woman. 

The "open to relationship but not sure" line is just some BS  to tell you what you want to hear, and leave the door open for him to leave in the future. IMO move on from this guy he just wants sex. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by cleverusername

[d0nnivain]

7 hours ago, belladun said:

He works till the evenings throughout the week and weekend so it seems that I can only see him after work hours.

This I don't get at all.  Do you expect to see him during his work hours?  Do you expect him to quit to have no money but more time to date you?  

If he's giving you his free time, what is the problem?  You just met the guy.  You have been on two dates.  To jump straight to lifestyle changes or more than 1-2 meets per week / 3-4 contacts is waaaayyyyyyy too much too soon.  This is not a long term BF to whom you have been committed for years.  At this point you don't even know if you are exclusive.  Slow down.  Do not emotionally invest.  If anything pull yourself back emotionally because this is headed for heartbreak because your expectations are out of whack.    

@prince0fgame -- you are new around here.  Your attitude about meeting women where they are & not judging them by their sexual choices is refreshing but you will quickly find you are in the minority.  The world is full of judgmental men who condemn women for kisses too early, let alone sex, & who ascribe to the whore/Madonna complex when evaluating women's behavior.  I am a woman & have no problem with any woman's choice on the timing to have sex but I have seen too many women attempt to use sex as a hook or confuse sex & love.  A confident woman who has sex because she wants to is great.  I hope @belladun is such a woman but since she's on here asking advice after a series of very naïve decisions, I suspect she's closer to the confuse sex with love type or at least she thinks early sex means something emotionally when it does not.  I fear she will be hurt because from what I see her delivering herself to this guy like Uber-sex on a platter with minimal effort on his part is not going to make him see her as valuable.  

Edited April 24, 2021 by d0nnivain

[Gaeta]

6 hours ago, prince0fgame said:

I think a lot of women have this perspective. And I want to knock the wind out of its sails.

I want to break this preconceived notion once and for all.

It's not a preconceived notion, it's scientifically proven. What drives men to pursue women is testosterone and while a man chases a woman that testosterone builds up, if he releases that testosterone too early by having sex than he loses the desire to continue the chase. As for the woman it's the contrary, if a woman experience sex early she then releases too much of the bonding hormones and get attached too fast before she had time to assess if the man is a good prospect for her. 

There is a good middle to this. Waiting a bit for sex gives the man a chance to bond with the woman before his level of testosterone goes down with sex, and for the woman waiting a bit will give her a chance to assess if this really a man she wants to date before she gets floaded with bonding hormones through sex. 

[princessaurora]

8 hours ago, belladun said:

A few days before our second date, he asked what I was up to one evening and offered movie night in pjs.

What was the original plan for your second date? Was it also at his house? Have you been on any dates since that were outside the home? 

Movie nights in pj's sounds like something people in long term relationships do, not something you partake in with a person you barely know. 

You need to get out the house and the bedroom or this will be probably be nothing more than casual sex. 

 

 

[prince0fgame]

27 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

It's not a preconceived notion, it's scientifically proven. What drives men to pursue women is testosterone and while a man chases a woman that testosterone builds up, if he releases that testosterone too early by having sex than he loses the desire to continue the chase. As for the woman it's the contrary, if a woman experience sex early she then releases too much of the bonding hormones and get attached too fast before she had time to assess if the man is a good prospect for her. 

There is a good middle to this. Waiting a bit for sex gives the man a chance to bond with the woman before his level of testosterone goes down with sex, and for the woman waiting a bit will give her a chance to assess if this really a man she wants to date before she gets floaded with bonding hormones through sex. 

Testosterone has never caused me to chase women. It's caused me to be turned on. But my ego would never allow me to chase. I believe in meeting her half way. No matter how much testosterone I have (and keep in mind, I was in the military). I had the highest testosterone. Yet I never chased. If she doesn't meet me halfway, then I leave. 

I respect your ideology. But romance for me has always been I hit the ball to her. And now she has to hit it back. 

Sometimes that leads to sex on the first night. Sometimes it's on the 3rd month. Honestly I never really gave it any thought on how fast or slow she gives out.

What I care about is "Is she giving me equal energy? Is it an equal investment on her part?"

Honestly I really don't think about sex at all. It's because I always have a pulse on her level of investment. I always know if she is giving to the romantic bubble as much as me....or not.

And to me, romance is two people giving equal investment. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by prince0fgame

[prince0fgame]

39 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

This I don't get at all.  Do you expect to see him during his work hours?  Do you expect him to quit to have no money but more time to date you?  

If he's giving you his free time, what is the problem?  You just met the guy.  You have been on two dates.  To jump straight to lifestyle changes or more than 1-2 meets per week / 3-4 contacts is waaaayyyyyyy too much too soon.  This is not a long term BF to whom you have been committed for years.  At this point you don't even know if you are exclusive.  Slow down.  Do not emotionally invest.  If anything pull yourself back emotionally because this is headed for heartbreak because your expectations are out of whack.    

@prince0fgame -- you are new around here.  Your attitude about meeting women where they are & not judging them by their sexual choices is refreshing but you will quickly find you are in the minority.  The world is full of judgmental men who condemn women for kisses too early, let alone sex, & who ascribe to the whore/Madonna complex when evaluating women's behavior.  I am a woman & have no problem with any woman's choice on the timing to have sex but I have seen too many women attempt to use sex as a hook or confuse sex & love.  A confident woman who has sex because she wants to is great.  I hope @belladun is such a woman but since she's on here asking advice after a series of very naïve decisions, I suspect she's closer to the confuse sex with love type or at least she thinks early sex means something emotionally when it does not.  I fear she will be hurt because from what I see her delivering herself to this guy like Uber-sex on a platter with minimal effort on his part is not going to make him see her as valuable.  

Thank you for your reasonable response. You seem to be very aware of the whole maddona/whore complex from both sides. I too have measured the OP's "sexual maturity." And I made a judgement call that I think she is the mature type. She comes across like it. I agree with everything you said. It was spot on actually. I guess we will have to disagree with our assessment of the OP. 

[Gaeta]

I'm 100% with @d0nnivain. You have done everything you shoud never do when meeting a new man. But what is done is done. Now the only thing left for you to do is to do *damage control*.

You cannot ask this man what he wants when he already told you where he stands *he's open to a relationship* which falls in the same category of BS let's go with the flow & lets see where it goes. You have NO power over that, there is nothing you can do to make him want to chase you again. Actually anything you will attempt to do will push him away. What you do now is nothing! Men rebuild their testosterones in absence of women. Be absent until he reaches out to you. 

Please understand this. Do not go to men's house for first meetings EVEN if you chatted with them 4 months!. You are not an escort. If a man is unwilling to take you out, organize an outing to spend time with you, drop him. This man probably invited tons of women to his place for first meeting, you are not special because he invited you over. He invited you over because he's LAZY. Lazy men don't make good boyfriends and good relationships. 

[Gaeta]

14 minutes ago, prince0fgame said:

No matter how much testosterone I have (and keep in mind, I was in the military). I had the highest testosterone.

I was married 15 years to a Green Berets I can tell you a military career has nothing to do with level of testosterone. Plenty of military men too shy, too beta to pursue women but they can easily jump over a 30 foot wall. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Gaeta