poppyfields Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: We all value what we have to work for. That's as old as the world itself. And you're describing exactly how attraction works. It actually grows in the absence of that other person. It grows when you're thinking about the guy, thinking about the date, and probably also the bit of anxiety if you haven't heard from him in a couple of days. If you're talking to him all the time, there's no room for that feeling to grow. Well said brother! True for men too in my experience.
poppyfields Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Also I’ve known guys that do the timed text thing at beginning and it’s very obvious. I mean typically they’re all over the place and sometimes they even intentionally take the exact amount of time ( to the minute) to respond to your message that you took to respond to theirs unintentionally. It is a big turn off for me at least I have heard men complain about the same thing with respect to woman. Mirroring, ugh. There have been threads discussing this. I used to be a believer in it to some extent, but I do NOT believe in it at all anymore, I think it's disingenuous and a dating sabotager. Edited March 24, 2021 by poppyfields 1
dramafreezone Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Oh yeah, absolutely. I feel that. OK, so the guy that can talk his way out of a certain woman liking him. Do what, is going to stay silent for the duration of the relationship? Because eventually he’s going to have to talk right? Because I’ve also been on a date with that guy who was super quiet on the first date but wanted a second one and it was a real drag. So what should they do for the remainder? Hopefully not put on some fake persona that Cory Wayne has come up with. The suggestion is the guy barely talk until the first date , but how about the first date. And in person will he come off nervous, awkward, or cold if that’s not his normal self? Ha, Corey Wayne has a lot of good information. I've read his book numerous times. Everything is a balance. There's a difference between letting the woman do 80% of the talking whlie the guy jokes and contributes to the conversation, and the guy just sitting there like the Terminator. The guy dominating the conversation is just a real danger before an attachment has been built. I've never been a big talker in person, and I usually pair well with women that talk a ton anyway. I've been on those 3 hours calls though. They're killers. Ironically, it was only the women that put me in the friendzone that wanted to talk that long, never women I was dating, Edited March 24, 2021 by dramafreezone 1
Miss Spider Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, poppyfields said: I have heard men complain about the same thing with respect to woman. Mirroring, ugh. There have been threads discussing this. I used to be a believer in it to some extent, but I do NOT believe in it at all anymore, I think it's disingenuous and a dating sabotager. OHhhh . I’ve heard that term before a few times. I didn’t know it was referring to that specifically. I don’t know about you, but I am sure it is the case since you are a highly intuitive person, but it is so clear when a guy is overthinking /planning/ timing texts to any capacity. I have really low tolerance for it even if it’s well-intentioned(in their opinion, I guess). Im just trying to have a normal convo . Texting is difficult enough Edited March 24, 2021 by Cookiesandough 1
dramafreezone Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: How about he actually gets busy then, because that’s always a good thing and not a facade that will crumble by the second month, at the very latest. We’re going to realize this guy we thought was cool had actually just artificially inflated his life at the beginning to seem so busy and fascinating, because actually he just sitting around or being a fake. We might feel jipped or we get bored and leave. Whereas if you actually fill your life and get busy and ambitious towards something other than how to game yourself into dating someone, you genuinely become a more interesting person and desirable person, and there is no need to lie about it. Also I’ve known guys that do the timed text thing at beginning and it’s very obvious. I mean typically they’re all over the place and sometimes they even intentionally take the exact amount of time ( to the minute) to respond to your message that you took to respond to theirs unintentionally. It is a big turn off for me at least Couldn't agree more. No one should fake value. Actually be busy, don't pretend to be busy. That's why I endlessly preach to my fellow brothers on here to build a full life. That way you don't have to get off the phone or can't respond to a text because you're trying to play a game, you're doing it because you actually do have to go work out, or get work done or go to dinner with a friend or date. I think women know the difference anyway. If the guy works at McDonalds he has no business trying to pretend that he doesn't have time. Edited March 24, 2021 by dramafreezone 2
spiderowl Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 I don't think you did anything wrong. For some reason, she decided she didn't feel romantically about you. Romantic feeling can grow if people give it space. Get involved in doing other things and don't hang around waiting for her every word. Let her make the effort to keep in touch. I honestly do not think a three-hour Facetime spoiled anything. Sometimes people just don't feel it. Meeting in person might make a difference or it might not. Being scarce might make a difference. You just need to go onwards towards what matters to you. 1
dramafreezone Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, lee179108 said: So she texted today and said sorry that she's been quiet as she's been so busy. Said that facetime was great and she loved talking to me but sees me more as a friend that relationship wise. I find this weird since we aint met in person and there was something there since she asked me to meet. She has my number if she wants to talk again so I'll leave it at that. She also said again she's got so much going on and sorry if she's confusing. So I don't know.. I'll leave it now. She has my insta and number. I forgot to respond to this. Sorry this happened, but I think there's a lot to learn from here. First, do not agree to be her friend. If you want any chance with her in the future, you cannot agree to this. She's trying to put you in the friendzone, but you can only be put in the friendzone if you agree to this. If you do agree, it will be nearly impossible for her to see you differently. What I hope you said is something to the effect of, "thanks for gettiing back to me. I'm not interested in a friendship so if you ever change your mind, give me a call and I'd love to take you out. Otherwise take care." If nothing else, she'll respect that you had the cajones to not agree to something just to maintain contact with her. If I had to choose between being in someone's friendzone and gaining their respect, I choose respect. Maybe she won't respect you, but you'll respect yourself. If she ever contacts you again, be cordial and ask her out again. Don't allow yourself to be framed as a friend. Edited March 25, 2021 by dramafreezone 2
poppyfields Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: What I hope you said is something to the effect of, "thanks for gettiing back to me. I'm not interested in a friendship so if you ever change your mind, give me a call and I'd love to take you out. Otherwise take care." If nothing else, she'll respect that you had the cajones to not agree to something just to maintain contact with her. If I had to choose between being in someone's friendzone and gaining their respect, I choose respect. Maybe she won't respect you, but you'll respect yourself. If she ever contacts you again, be cordial and ask her out again. Don't allow yourself to be framed as a friend. lol, I am agreeing with you too much today DFZ. What you proposed lee saying -- placing myself in that scenario attempting to friendzone a man, you just succeeded in intriguing me and might even result in my having a re-think about friendzoning you. I might even call you! Feelings are fluid and the woman who wasn't into you today, might be madly in love with you tomorrow. Create the scene. Edited March 25, 2021 by poppyfields 1
dramafreezone Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 1 minute ago, poppyfields said: lol, I am agreeing with you too much today DMF. What you proposed lee saying -- placing myself in that scenario, attempting to friendzone a man, you just succeeded in intriguing me and might even result in my having a re-think about friendzoning you. Feelings are fluid and the woman who wasn't into you today, might be madly in love with you tomorrow. Create the scene. Yes we're either exactly in sync or completely at odds it appears. I definitely agree that attraction level ebbs and flows. I think of it like a stock price. I think the woman in question was attracted to the OP enough to go out at one point, but sometime between the time they agreed to see each other and now her attraction dipped below the level to which she could see him as a romantic partner. Who knows exactly why? I think it was too much availability, but it could be a number of factors or combination of factors. I think we underestimate how much of this (and love in general) is timing. We know about the job issue. She could be getting over an ex, having family issues, or maybe another guy is just ahead of him in line, there's just no telling. If it's an ex, OP is really in good shape. That guy has already messed up so it's just a matter of time before he messes up again. Then 3-4 months down the line, who knows, she may think of that guy that had to guys to say "no thanks" to her friend offer and decide that she wrote him off too soon. 1
Miss Spider Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 23 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: I forgot to respond to this. Sorry this happened, but I think there's a lot to learn from here. First, do not agree to be her friend. If you want any chance with her in the future, you cannot agree to this. She's trying to put you in the friendzone, but you can only be put in the friendzone if you agree to this. If you do agree, it will be nearly impossible for her to see you differently. What I hope you said is something to the effect of, "thanks for gettiing back to me. I'm not interested in a friendship so if you ever change your mind, give me a call and I'd love to take you out. Otherwise take care." If nothing else, she'll respect that you had the cajones to not agree to something just to maintain contact with her. If I had to choose between being in someone's friendzone and gaining their respect, I choose respect. Maybe she won't respect you, but you'll respect yourself. If she ever contacts you again, be cordial and ask her out again. Don't allow yourself to be framed as a friend. Totally agree. No being “friends” That literally the worst thing you could do, lee. What does Cory say about telling a woman to call back if she changes her mind? I didn’t know this was often advised to guys. Whenever I’ve received that line or similar I filed them under an option I knew was there and there really wasn’t any urgency. I felt like I could always come back. A lot of guys say that and I did sometimes come back but usually to throw some breadcrumbs sometimes The best response to a rejection ever gotten from a guy was something like “ok” ... I lol, I don’t remember if specifics, but it was something like that and thought it was funny af and I was already pretty interested in him though. I got him back and we ended up dating for like half a year until bad stuff happened. LSS, I burned that bridge real good, but he was somethin’.
Miss Spider Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) Sorry it’s just I spent a minute to construct a meaningful ‘why I can’t date atm’ message in the kindest way possible and its length juxtaposed with the “ok” ish thing was just comical to me. but I suppose that message would seem terse and rude to others and the other that you mentioned would be better. A lid for every pot and all that Edited March 25, 2021 by Cookiesandough
poppyfields Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Totally agree. No being “friends” That literally the worst thing you could do, lee. What does Cory say about telling a woman to call back if she changes her mind? I didn’t know this was often advised to guys. Whenever I’ve received that line or similar I filed them under an option I knew was there and there really wasn’t any urgency. I felt like I could always come back. A lot of guys say that and I did sometimes come back but usually to throw some breadcrumbs sometimes The best response to a rejection ever gotten from a guy was something like “ok” ... I lol, I don’t remember if specifics, but it was something like that and thought it was funny af and I was already pretty interested in him though. I got him back and we ended up dating for like half a year until bad stuff happened. LSS, I burned that bridge real good, but he was somethin’. Bolded, but what's the alternative? I once had a guy say, in a very pissed off, butt hurt way, "No thanks I have enough friends!" His attitude sucked and didn't inspire much of anything in me except confirming why I didn't want to date him in the first place. For me, to re-ignite attraction or inspire me to change my mind, I need to know he's interested in me, but confident enough to let it go, live his life; my rejection didn't affect him one iota. He obviously has other options and if I change my mind, great, but if not, that's fine too, life goes on. A simple "ok" just wouldn't do it for me. A question for you though cookies; you said you were already interested in him, so why were you friendzoning him? Edited March 25, 2021 by poppyfields 2
Miss Spider Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, poppyfields said: Bolded, but what's the alternative? I once had a guy say, in a very pissed off, butt hurt way, "No thanks I have enough friends!" His attitude sucked and didn't inspire much of anything in me except confirming why I didn't want to date him in the first place. For me, to re-ignite attraction or inspire me to change my mind, I need to know he's interested in me, but confident enough to let it go, live his life; my rejection didn't affect him one iota. He obviously has other options. Yeah, that’s a jerkish thing to say. & I agree it depends on person ( see edit) personally, I know the guy likes me every time I’ve ended it with him. I know his number. I don’t need a parade or for him to reiterate he is there. To me, the best way has always been a whole air of ‘ that’s cool” ( THAT was what he said. I just rememberedxD ) To me, less is more because it displays it’s no thing you don’t want him because there’s more and he’s not going to be around. You done goofed. Ie. Value. It’s like the antithesis of “let me know if you ever change your mind, cuz I’ll probably be around” Edited March 25, 2021 by Cookiesandough
Alpacalia Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 7 hours ago, lee179108 said: So she texted today and said sorry that she's been quiet as she's been so busy. Said that facetime was great and she loved talking to me but sees me more as a friend that relationship wise. I find this weird since we aint met in person and there was something there since she asked me to meet. She has my number if she wants to talk again so I'll leave it at that. She also said again she's got so much going on and sorry if she's confusing. So I don't know.. I'll leave it now. She has my insta and number. That's too bad. It just wasn't a good match. Try not to get bogged down by the setback. Onwards!
Miss Spider Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, poppyfields said: I couldn’t date because school was stressing me too much at the time . But gosh, he was something else so gave it a shot . Then did it again. This time it was worse... like he got upset. Then I and waited too long and he moved away :’( got a new girl :’( he texted me not long ago something like whatwhy did you do it? Just tell me the truth? And we talked but I knew through fb he was already in a Rship. He was just wanting some answers so I gave Edited March 25, 2021 by Cookiesandough
dramafreezone Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 19 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Totally agree. No being “friends” That literally the worst thing you could do, lee. What does Cory say about telling a woman to call back if she changes her mind? I didn’t know this was often advised to guys. Whenever I’ve received that line or similar I filed them under an option I knew was there and there really wasn’t any urgency. I felt like I could always come back. A lot of guys say that and I did sometimes come back but usually to throw some breadcrumbs sometimes The best response to a rejection ever gotten from a guy was something like “ok” ... I lol, I don’t remember if specifics, but it was something like that and thought it was funny af and I was already pretty interested in him though. I got him back and we ended up dating for like half a year until bad stuff happened. LSS, I burned that bridge real good, but he was somethin’. That's a great response. Obviously you still remember it today for a reason. He's someone that understood that everyone has their preferences and that a lot of rejections are just due to timing, and that someone will bee into him if he keeps on circulating and doesn't get stuck on one that wasn't feeling it. 1
poppyfields Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Yeah, that’s a jerkish thing to say. & I agree it depends on person ( see edit) personally, I know the guy likes me every time I’ve ended it with him. I know his number. I don’t need a parade or for him to reiterate he is there. To me, the best way has always been a whole air of ‘ that’s cool” ( THAT was what he said. I just rememberedxD ) To me, less is more because it displays it’s no thing you don’t want him because there’s more and he’s not going to be around. You done goofed. Ie. Value. It’s like the antithesis of “let me know if you ever change your mind, cuz I’ll probably be around” I guess we're different in this regard cookies because the bolded - an attitude of "it's no thing, plenty more where you came from, I may not be around if you ever change your mind" to me reflects an arrogance combined with butt hurt. That's what that response says to me. No way I would ever call that guy again. I like when a guy is interested in me, and let's me know, I find it a turn on! And if he can demonstrate that but also convey he has other options and he's not gonna die cause I turned him down, lol, that attitude is very attractive to me and might result in my changing my mind. Edited March 25, 2021 by poppyfields 1
Miss Spider Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, poppyfields said: I guess we're different in this regard cookies because the bolded, to me reflects an arrogance combined with an attitude of butt hurt. That's what that response says to me. I like when a guy is interested in me, and let's me know, I find it a turn on! And if he can demonstrate that but also convey he has other options and he's not gonna die cause I turned him down, lol, that attitude is very attractive to me and might result in my changing my mind. But isn’t it clear from dating him that he’s interested in you? I don’t need that when I reject a guy. Anything akin to showing interest in possibilities when I do not want is not for me. I’ve never seen why a guy always sees the need to say that pls call him if you change your mind or whatever when you reject him. I get it’s mostly a platitude, but in my experience, those guys are the ones who are easy to say 2 weeks later “hey” and start talking again to fade again, again and again. To me just an acknowledgement of alright is not butthurt at all bc it was in character. He wasn’t mean about it. It was just acceptance, succinct, and confident to me. Letting it go which seems so hard for ppl. But yea, evidence that there is no rule book you can really go by to get everyone, so be genuine within reason and hopefully attract someone into you Edited March 25, 2021 by Cookiesandough
poppyfields Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 12 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: But isn’t it clear from dating him that he’s interested in you? I don’t need that when I reject a guy. Anything akin to showing interest in possibilities when I do not want is not for me. I’ve never seen why a guy always sees the need to say that pls call him if you change your mind or whatever when you reject him. I get it’s mostly a platitude, but in my experience, those guys are the ones who are easy to say 2 weeks later “hey” and start talking again to fade again, again and again. To me just an acknowledgement of alright is not butthurt at all, it’s just acceptance and succinct. Sexy & actually in line with a lot of other aspects of him... le sigh But yea, evidence that there is no rule book you can really go by to get everyone, so be genuine within reason and hopefully attract someone into you I don't think he's saying "please call him," lol (sounds so weak and needy) he's inviting you to call him should you ever change your mind. Doesn't mean he will be available if/when you do, he has other options, but he might consider it. I dunno, when DFZ posted it, I liked it. I was thinking that was something I might want to hear and it may cause me to change my mind, I didn't find it weak or needy at all, the opposite I found it confident and bold. Different strokes! 1
dramafreezone Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: But isn’t it clear from dating him that he’s interested in you? I don’t need that when I reject a guy. Anything akin to showing interest in possibilities when I do not want is not for me. I’ve never seen why a guy always sees the need to say that pls call him if you change your mind or whatever when you reject him. I get it’s mostly a platitude, but in my experience, those guys are the ones who are easy to say 2 weeks later “hey” and start talking again to fade again, again and again. To me just an acknowledgement of alright is not butthurt at all, it’s just acceptance and succinct. Sexy & actually in line with a lot of other aspects of him... le sigh But yea, evidence that there is no rule book you can really go by to get everyone, so be genuine within reason and hopefully attract someone into you If it's a simple rejection then "ok" works. We're talking about a very specific instance of a rejection and an attempt to put in the friendzone. The woman that the OP was talking to wants him around but in an non-romantic capacity. If he says "no thanks but give me a call if you change your mind" then that's framing how the relationship will continue if it's to continue at all. If she calls in 2 weeks, we'll chat for a couple of minutes and I'm asking her out again. I'm willing to chalk one rejection up to bad timing. If you reject again I'll conclude you're an attention junkie and we'll only go out if you ask me out. Here's how future phone calls would play out "hey how's it going, blah blah for 2-3 minutes, well good to hear from you I have to go, take care." So either you'd stop calling or you'd ask me out. No loss either way. If someone gets their kicks out of that so be it. Ultimately, once I say that "no thanks" line I'm assuming she's gone for good and I'm moving on. Edited March 25, 2021 by dramafreezone
cleverusername Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 I just go into it with the attitude of, "I think you could add value to my life if you think I can add value to yours". She has the opportunity to gain something with me, If she passes on it, it's her loss. If she decides to come back or stay around for it, great. Usually If it doesn't work out I say something along the lines of, "Thats life, I hope you find your missing piece. If you see me around, don't be a stranger". Usually i'll get a drunk text a few weeks or months later that I don't respond to.
Miss Spider Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, dramafreezone said: We're talking about a very specific instance of a rejection and an attempt to put in the friendzone. The woman that the OP was talking to wants him around but in an non-romantic capacity. If he says "no thanks but give me a call if you change your mind" then that's framing how the relationship will continue if it's to continue at all. If she calls in 2 weeks, we'll chat for a couple of minutes and I'm asking her out again. I'm willing to chalk one rejection up to bad timing. If you reject again I'll conclude you're an attention junkie and we'll only go out if you ask me out. Here's how future phone calls would play out "hey how's it going, blah blah for 2-3 minutes, well good to hear from you I have to go, take care." So either you'd stop calling or you'd ask me out. No loss either way. If someone gets their kicks out of that so be it. 1 hour ago, dramafreezone said: If it's a simple rejection then "ok" works. We're talking about a very specific instance of a rejection and an attempt to put in the friendzone. The woman that the OP was talking to wants him around but in an non-romantic capacity. If he says "no thanks but give me a call if you change your mind" then that's framing how the relationship will continue if it's to continue at all. If she calls in 2 weeks, we'll chat for a couple of minutes and I'm asking her out again. I'm willing to chalk one rejection up to bad timing. If you reject again I'll conclude you're an attention junkie and we'll only go out if you ask me out. Here's how future phone calls would play out "hey how's it going, blah blah for 2-3 minutes, well good to hear from you I have to go, take care." So either you'd stop calling or you'd ask me out. No loss either way. If someone gets their kicks out of that so be it. Ultimately, once I say that "no thanks" line I'm assuming she's gone for good and I'm moving on. Ok okay. I thought in this scenario it was more important, since they had like a 3 hr virtual first date and she plants him in LJBF. Not even a “I’m busy, maybe later” . So safe to say interest is low at this time. So if it were me, when he says, “can’t be your friend, but let me know if you change your mind,” the logical part of me is thinking, “and what exactly would change my mind?” Especially after awhile of no interaction. Besides me just running out of other more desirable ( to me) options? So if I come back and start talking to him and he accepts, historically, I’ve felt like he dropped even more in desirability to me once he answers. I guess I unfairly assume that he really is casting lines anywhere and hoping something bites, which to me lowers value. I guess it just seems too... easy ? Tldr story. Plz don’t judge me, but I’ll give an example of something I did in my less mature times. This guy ( I’d say on a scale of 1-10, I felt about a 4 for him) said, “hey, let me know if you change your mind” after I told him I wasn’t that interested. I said “Thank you” 3 weeks later, the guy I was feeling about an 8 for initially had dropped rapidly. I was talking to no one, so one night, because I was bored and honestly I’m bold like that sometimes, I hit him up. I told him I hadn’t been up to much , been busy, then said “hey, would you still be up for meeting?” He said yeah. So we’re working on when or where and then I kind of got distracted again and stopped messaging. Nothing about it made me feel any different than before, maybe even less. It was so easy to just pick back up, so felt no urgency or heightened interest. On my mother, I did this like 5x over the span of a month and some of the time we were pretty far into the plans. This was until I knew that *IF* I did meet up with him, after all the jerking around I did, he was 99% likely to prank me or get revenge on me somehow xD and I wouldn’t have blamed the guy one bit, either. I would have said “touché, brother”. Fortunately, we never met for that date. Edited March 25, 2021 by Cookiesandough
Gaeta Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 All this is nice theory but in reality when a woman tells a man *I see you more as a friend* it's just a way to let him down easy, she doesn't care about being friends with him so what ever reply he may give *not looking for friends* or even *call me when you change your mind* is useless. She's not coming back.
poppyfields Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) I am actually friends with one of my ex's, short term relationship, 4 months. Not like a bff or anything but we catch up from time to time, and he helped me out when I had pneumonia a couple of years ago (more so than my own boyfriend at the time - my recent ex). We also lived (at the time) only a few blocks from each other and would see him around, so it was nice it ended friendly. So yeah when I ask to be friends, right or wrong, I do mean it. My recent ex? No, would never want to be friends with him so didn't ask. The guys I've asked I had only dated briefly, nice guys just not for me in a romantic sense. I dunno, if/when I start dating again, maybe I'll stop asking, seems to piss a lot of guys off, and they end up thinking I'm full of sh** anyway. Edited March 25, 2021 by poppyfields
Gaeta Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 1 minute ago, poppyfields said: I am actually friends with one of my ex's, short term relationship, 4 months. Because you spent 4 months with this person you know he's worthy of a friendship. OP and this woman only had a facetime chat. She's not interested in being friends. I am pretty sure she tells that to every guy she doesn't connect with.
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