Is there any way forward?

March 24, 2021

12 hours ago, chillii said:

Tbh , you don't sound even remotely close enough in any real way in 3 yrs for it to be anything serious plus all the on off. Did you only want something light and casual or are you looking to settle down marry and on or ? lf you do then your feelings were spot on in just being friends sounds like he wants a bit more but not more enough to ever be anything real or close to a marriage thing. Your really doing the right thing freeing yourself of this if you do want more.

I know it must seem weird. It seems weird to me that we have known each other thing long but nothing has been clarified. Basically, I have ended the relationship several times but he contacts me again as if I haven't said anything. It's very strange but because he is a nice guy and just wants to go out somewhere, I thought well why not? But it does make things confusing. I do feel attached to him but need to extract myself because it can't go anywhere.

March 24, 2021

This is a tough one, but, in general, men don't want to hear venting or discussing problems. It's counterintuitive for women because we tend to be more emotive and want a partner that will listen us talk and vent our frustrations. But men usually don't like that kind of stuff. I don't know how dismissive he's being though. If he's acting completely disinterested and uncaring, that is different. Men and women communicate differently. Men tend to be fixers. If you tell them a problem, they want to offer a solution. Women simply want to be heard.

I have a friend that is a marriage and family counselor (her husband is too). He always asks her if she just wants to talk or if she wants a solution. Perhaps you could try that.

March 24, 2021

As stated elsewhere in this thread, as a guy if we can't fix it immediately then we don't want to hear you complain about it, there's just no point.

And if we can't fix it let's have sex.

March 24, 2021

Last thing l'd feel like . But there's two things going on , the disinterest , and the relationship itself and l can sort of see where he's at op. Whether he's just being that type of male with your personal stuff or whether it's connected. But it all seems more a convenience thing l mean calls you up to go out that's what friends do, there's nothing close and probably another reason he's not interested in your personal stuff. Add in the on off 3 yrs, 2 people can waste yrs and yrs rolling along like that and holding themselves back from finding something real with someone else if that's what one of them really wants , it's just a shame.He'll start realizing your serious if you stand your ground op and basically stop hanging out with him . Friends in this situation is only going to hold you back bc it'll just keep going on and on like it has been for another 3yrs.

Edited March 24, 2021 by chillii

March 25, 2021

Ok so I’ll admit I didn’t quite read everything but I did see a lot of male vs female things and I actually don’t think this is rooted in gender.

My sister is actually this way when discussing issues and several other females I know. She will listen to me talk about it once give me her advice and that’s it case closed she wouldn’t want to talk about it again. Where I like talking through problems looking at it from multiple angles and talking about things more than once. People have different communication styles.

You have to decide for yourself if this will work for you or if it won’t. This seems to be something you value, that’s really important and that’s ok if it’s a deal breaker for you, but you should communicate that with him. When I come across something I find lacking in a partner I ask myself can I accept this or is it a core value and therefore a deal breaker.

My ex had a very loud outgoing personality and he would annoy me sometimes and embarrass me, but I loved him and he wasn’t going against my core values... Although it was annoying it was something I could accept.

March 28, 2021

I feel I've tried communicating with him but he doesn't get what I mean. I guess he is very unaware until people force him to be. I don't really want to be that person.

March 28, 2021

4 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I feel I've tried communicating with him but he doesn't get what I mean. I guess he is very unaware until people force him to be. I don't really want to be that person.

You aren't obligated to be in a relationship with someone that you feel doesn't meet your needs.
It sounds like you guys have danced around each other for the last 3 years, without it really developing into more.

Why not just take that final step and admit you're not suited to each other and move on. The worlds a big place. You can both be free to find a more suitable match.

March 28, 2021

12 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I feel I've tried communicating with him but he doesn't get what I mean.

That's ok he doesn't have to. Just talk about mutual interests rather than complex problems.

Talk to trusted friends, family and your therapist about those things.

Since you are not exactly dating you can't expect BF perks.

March 28, 2021

Seems to me this man is filling space in your life that could be freed to make space for a more genuine friend or boyfriend.

March 28, 2021

18 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I feel I've tried communicating with him but he doesn't get what I mean. I guess he is very unaware until people force him to be. I don't really want to be that person.

Maybe you are over it and not 100% interested in moving this relationship forward. Sometimes, things just play themselves out, and the potential for a relationship dies.

March 28, 2021

This very much could be a situation where he doesn't make you comfortable enough to communicate.

But could this also could be a situation where you prefer complaining about issues for pity more than actual resolution?

There need to a happy balance. You should be free to express your feelings, but not everyone is going to understand or sympathize with you for every situation.

March 28, 2021

4 hours ago, CollinW said:

This very much could be a situation where he doesn't make you comfortable enough to communicate.

But could this also could be a situation where you prefer complaining about issues for pity more than actual resolution?

There need to a happy balance. You should be free to express your feelings, but not everyone is going to understand or sympathize with you for every situation.

I'm not looking for pity but I am looking for understanding. If he wants to be more than a friend then he needs to at least be able to be a good friend. I wouldn't expect a stranger to be kind and caring but would definitely expect a partner to be so.

March 29, 2021

On 3/22/2021 at 1:09 PM, spiderowl said:

Should I give up on this guy altogether? I don't want to mislead him into thinking this could be anything more than a friendship now, though it has been in the past. I have told him we should just be friends and that we are not compatible. It doesn't seem to put him off.

Yes, you need to end this relationship. Honestly, I don't know why people insist on bloodletting stones, when they are with someone who's incompatible with them and makes that clear through their words and actions. This is not his fault. This is yours and his doing. You both created this toxic dynamic together.

There is literally nothing you can do to change him. You've already spoken to him about your concerns and he hasn't changed the way he communicates with you, because that's not what he wants to do.

On 3/23/2021 at 12:34 PM, spiderowl said:

Thank you poppyfields. This is not a new relationship. I have been seeing him on and off for about 3 years now. It has been on and off because I feel the lack of understanding. I have had so much to deal with recently (which I won't go into) and yet I do not feel I can turn to him. I have felt very lonely during one of the hardest times of my life. He is very much a person I can go out with and spend time in the outdoors with but more as an activity friend. It has been more but that was when I thought we could develop a relationship and then the emotional intimacy just never really happened. I have never been in a situation like this before. It has only continued because he has wanted it to and contacted me to do things and go out, otherwise I would have let it fizzle out. It sounds awful but I did not want to hurt him by letting him think we were compatible.

I think you are absolutely right about a relationship developing naturally and organically. It seems to and then we come to a full stop if I try to talk to him about something that is bothering me, then I feel really brushed off. So it is like a kind of weird stalemate. Maybe we should just stick to being activity friends. I no longer know what he wants and those kinds of conversations never seem appropriate when we meet. I think he is avoiding them.

You have had an on-again-off-again relationship with someone who you are 100% not compatible with. The reasons you list for his good qualities are all superficial and not actual emotional traits. He likes the outdoors. He's fun to talk to. He's an activity friend. There's no emotional intimacy from either of you, because you two are not compatible.

For whatever reason, neither of you has the communication skills to be transparent with each other about your real reasons for stopping and staring. It's as if you two are sabotaging your connection for reasons both of you know but can't admit to yourselves or to each other.

I would never waste 3 years on trying with the wrong person for a relationship when it's clear he doesn't meet my needs. Sometimes being alone is the better choice, spderowl. Have you ever been alone? You seem to bounce from man to man throughout all of your threads. How does that help you?

Edited March 29, 2021 by Watercolors

March 29, 2021

10 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Seems to me this man is filling space in your life that could be freed to make space for a more genuine friend or boyfriend.

That's what I just tried to explain as my first reaction to spiderowl's post. I believe she's just using this guy as a place holder and she's mad that he's not fulfilling the role she intended for him.

March 29, 2021

2 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I'm not looking for pity but I am looking for understanding. If he wants to be more than a friend then he needs to at least be able to be a good friend. I wouldn't expect a stranger to be kind and caring but would definitely expect a partner to be so.

What does this mean? Why is it important for someone to understand the situations you're ranting about if it's not pertinent to your personal relationship?

March 29, 2021

Yes, I have been alone, a lot, for most of my life. I have chosen not to date people I know I am not interested in or where I feel there is incompatibility. I wasn't sure in this case and he seemed kind, enthusiastic and very happy to go out and do things.

I am not using him as a place-holder because I told him initially I didn't think we were compatible. He thought I wasn't giving it chance and judging unfairly. I really don't know if he is right on that.

I think because of the way we started out, I have not really given him the space to be vulnerable and maybe he is guarding his heart - and I wouldn't blame him! I have to say, my ex was rather more 'feminine', let's say, not an alpha male. Maybe I am not used to alpha males?

There is still this lack of empathy though. I know he had a very strange background with parents who were status orientated rather than caring about the kids. Hard to know if that is relevant or not.

If I say I am having difficulty with something, or something is stressing me, I don't expect counselling or tons of sympathy but it would be helpful to talk it through. What I don't expect is for him to say "Hmm" and then to change the subject. I wouldn't do that to him.

Edited March 29, 2021 by spiderowl

March 29, 2021

1 minute ago, CollinW said:

What does this mean? Why is it important for someone to understand the situations you're ranting about if it's not pertinent to your personal relationship?

Because any decent guy would care about his partner and vice versa. I'm not sure what kind of relationships you expect but I am sure if your partner didn't care at all about your feelings you would not enjoy that relationship.

March 29, 2021

8 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

Yes, I have been alone, a lot, for most of my life. I have chosen not to date people I know I am not interested in or where I feel there is incompatibility. I wasn't sure in this case and he seemed kind, enthusiastic and very happy to go out and do things.

I am not using him as a place-holder because I told him initially I didn't think we were compatible. He thought I wasn't giving it chance and judging unfairly. I really don't know if he is right on that.

I think because of the way we started out, I have not really given him the space to be vulnerable and maybe he is guarding his heart - and I wouldn't blame him! I have to say, my ex was rather more 'feminine', let's say, not an alpha male. Maybe I am not used to alpha males?

There is still this lack of empathy though. I know he had a very strange background with parents who were status orientated rather than caring about the kids. Hard to know if that is relevant or not.

If I say I am having difficulty with something, or something is stressing me, I don't expect counselling or tons of sympathy but it would be helpful to talk it through. What I don't expect is for him to say "Hmm" and then to change the subject. I wouldn't do that to him.

From what I know of you spiderowl, you seem to intentionally chase men whom you already know you're not compatible with; whom you're not attracted to; whom you have no emotional intimacy with. So, that is something you need to figure out about yourself with a therapist. It is not a boyfriend's responsibility to determine why you are emotionally closed off, and why you choose emotionally closed off men to chase after.

You knew you two weren't compatible and you let him convince you that you were wrong. That was your first mistake. You knew he wasn't a good fit for you, so you should have asserted your boundaries and told him that you two could just be friends and nothing more. He doesn't need your help to be vulnerable. He's not vulnerable with you because he's just not. The lack of empathy seems to be mutual from you and he, towards each other. This is why I don't understand why you are so upset. You don't even like this guy other than he's someone to go hiking with when you're bored.

March 29, 2021

11 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

Because any decent guy would care about his partner and vice versa. I'm not sure what kind of relationships you expect but I am sure if your partner didn't care at all about your feelings you would not enjoy that relationship.

But you're not in a relationship. This has been on/off for 3 years with no real progress from either you or him towards committing to an emotionally available, romantic relationship.

March 29, 2021

5 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I have not really given him the space to be vulnerable and maybe he is guarding his heart -

Have you considered that you are stuck in analysis paralysis?

Have you considered that a lot of people don't want to listen to problems all the time?

There's a lot of therapy-speak in your posts, and that language in itself could make friends and lovers glaze over.

Tone down the therapy-speak and talking about problems.

You know, there has to be life outside the therapists couch. That's the purpose of it. To apply it to life .

March 29, 2021

12 hours ago, spiderowl said:

Because any decent guy would care about his partner and vice versa. I'm not sure what kind of relationships you expect but I am sure if your partner didn't care at all about your feelings you would not enjoy that relationship.

You seem to be conflating understanding with caring. He could care about your issues and not understand them. Seems like you're looking for an emotional exit plan.

March 29, 2021

20 hours ago, Watercolors said:

From what I know of you spiderowl, you seem to intentionally chase men whom you already know you're not compatible with; whom you're not attracted to; whom you have no emotional intimacy with. So, that is something you need to figure out about yourself with a therapist. It is not a boyfriend's responsibility to determine why you are emotionally closed off, and why you choose emotionally closed off men to chase after.

You knew you two weren't compatible and you let him convince you that you were wrong. That was your first mistake. You knew he wasn't a good fit for you, so you should have asserted your boundaries and told him that you two could just be friends and nothing more. He doesn't need your help to be vulnerable. He's not vulnerable with you because he's just not. The lack of empathy seems to be mutual from you and he, towards each other. This is why I don't understand why you are so upset. You don't even like this guy other than he's someone to go hiking with when you're bored.

Thanks Watercolors. I do like him, I'm just sad that there is this piece missing. I didn't chase after him and don't chase men who I'm not compatible with. Maybe I'm not compatible with anyone, that's probably more like it.

All comments really do help me to work through this, so thank you.

March 29, 2021

16 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Have you considered that you are stuck in analysis paralysis?

Have you considered that a lot of people don't want to listen to problems all the time?

There's a lot of therapy-speak in your posts, and that language in itself could make friends and lovers glaze over.

Tone down the therapy-speak and talking about problems.

You know, there has to be life outside the therapists couch. That's the purpose of it. To apply it to life .

It is worth considering what you have said, Wiseman2. I am a very analytical person but because I am small and female, people do not expect that. But I do not expect him to be a therapist, just to have some humanity in there. I will bear in mind what you say and watch myself for being too negative. I do have reason to be, at the moment, but I know I am not a glass half-full person. I have actually told him he needs a different type of person to me, I haven't forced my views or attitudes on him at all.

March 30, 2021

1 hour ago, spiderowl said:

It is worth considering what you have said, Wiseman2. I am a very analytical person but because I am small and female, people do not expect that. But I do not expect him to be a therapist, just to have some humanity in there. I will bear in mind what you say and watch myself for being too negative. I do have reason to be, at the moment, but I know I am not a glass half-full person. I have actually told him he needs a different type of person to me, I haven't forced my views or attitudes on him at all.

Hmm if he keeps pursuing you would think he would be able to get with this if he wants to get with you.

I too once had the fixer approach, but when told oh so long ago, just listening and being supportive is all that required, heck that is easy...once one fights the urge to fix . In short just emotional support, not technical support.

No matter what people say, men talk to their buddies the same way and want the same thing...really just to be agreed with and validated. Yet we seem to have no problem with that, or even if a good friend knowing when to call BS on your friend to tell them they are wrong.

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