Is this a dysfunctional relationship?

[Redguitar35]

My best friend is constantly telling about fights between him and his wife of six years. It comes and goes. They’ll fight and be on the verge of a divorce and then he’ll take her on some trip or vacation and it dies down. The core of their friction is the fact that she wants to have kids and he doesn’t. I’ve told him that’s not some he can just brush off. 

Is this not a dysfunctional relationship? How can they solve this, because I am out of advice at this point. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Redguitar35

[Sun Seeker]

9 minutes ago, Redguitar35 said:

How can they solve this, because I am out of advice at this point. 

They get divorced, problem solved.

/thread

[Alvi]

Well, if she wants to have kids, she is wasting her valuable fertile years with this guy. Few years down the road he might change his mind but it might be too late for her. 

Unless they can come up with some sort of compromise or something, divorce is probably the best option here. 

Why are you in the middle of their business by the way? Let them sort this out by themselves. This has nothing to do with you unless you are the "husband" looking for advice. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Alvi

[SaraSays]

A long-term relationship could never be intimately understood from hearing 1of the partner's version of events, least of all as those events pertain to conflicts (when we  moan to friends about disagreements with our partners, we tend to paint ourselves as heroes, and paint them as villains).

You're too close to 1 of the partners to have any objectivity, so this isn't something you should meddle in, I reckon.

It's also not something your friend should be telling you about, in my opinion. When we petulantly moan about partners to others we're close to, whatever we're moaning about is tattooed in their minds forever about our partners, and it makes it very difficult for our partners to be viewed in a fair light in future. It's also important to me, where nothing untoward is happening, that both partners decide who knows such deeply private info about their marriage.

[Gaeta]

I think he is  just venting and not looking for you to find him a solution. Just listen, don't get emotionally involved in his drama, and tell him. Budy, I know you'll find your answer. 

 

[Miss Spider]

Sounds dysfunctional to me but you would be surprised how many people can function perfectly fine with a dysfunctional situation. You would be surprised how many people would be miserable without it

Edited March 21, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

I think he is  just venting and not looking for you to find him a solution. Just listen, don't get emotionally involved in his drama, and tell him. Budy, I know you'll find your answer. 

 

Agreed!  That said, if you want to push each of them toward probably what is the right answer you could also say:

"Buddy, I don't know WHAT you should do. I'm out of advice/stuck."  I think sometimes when your answer to trusted friends is something that shows them the virtual rock bottom of out of ideas and advice and at an impasse, then sometimes they start actually accepting that this is the case/the reality.  It also shuts down the endless convos and having to react like a good friend through all their back and forths.  Not that you wouldn't do it (obviously you have), but there becomes a point where it's not productive.  I think when you remove the outlet of being able to vent to you and probably other friends have cut them off as well, they begin to see how embarrassing and unhealthy their relationship is.  Lol, do the cut off gently is my advice.  

Had to do this finally with one friend--I was friends with both the guy and the girl & it was an unhealthy relationship. It just got stupid to keep listening to horrible negative stuff & then be excited and happy for her when things were going well. Knowing both of them as individuals, I knew it was them together--not them separately that was the problem.  The 2-3 times the girl tried to talk to me about their relationship after I told her I couldn't help anymore, she didn't really believe me and tried and I just laughed a bit and said I couldn't go there with her.  It did work.  The cycle with them stopped pretty shortly thereafter and they broke up for good.  She is with a GREAT guy for her now.  My guy friend has cycled through a couple girlfriends since--the longest term one he had after my friend, I really liked her and she was great for him (he should have stayed with her)..  The rest have kind of been a mess though.  BTW, he rarely/never talked to me about their drama at the time or afterward.  He knew right away how embarrassing it was.  So much of it played out publicly too--parties, restaurants, bars.  

So cutting him off is a good alternative to try because it might help him see how ridiculous the whole thing is and push him slightly toward a better life.  Otherwise, distance yourself from him a bit--either in general or when that is the subject matter.  good luck!

[kendahke]

2 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

Is this not a dysfunctional relationship? How can they solve this, because I am out of advice at this point. 

It's not dysfunctional. It's incompatibility.

Children are a bottom line issue. It can't be solved unless one party gives up their stance.

Either she's good with a childfree marriage or he's good with a house full of children.  There is no middle ground.

Frankly, this is something that should have been discussed before they booked the church and the reception venue.  Kind of stupid on their part to not have discussed this and believed the other party--and walked away from that, despite how good the sex was.

[SaraSays]

12 minutes ago, kendahke said:

It's not dysfunctional. It's incompatibility.

Children are a bottom line issue. It can't be solved unless one party gives up their stance.

Either she's good with a childfree marriage or he's good with a house full of children.  There is no middle ground.

Frankly, this is something that should have been discussed before they booked the church and the reception venue.  Kind of stupid on their part to not have discussed this and believed the other party--and walked away from that, despite how good the sex was.

There is a middle ground, though, since wishing is just that, and has no bearing on what's possible biologically. There are people who have wished for kids, and couldn't have them, or couldn't have healthy kids.

There are people who have been set in their opinion that they did, or did not, want kids, and changed their mind, or experienced the opposite of what they wanted, and found they loved their life just the same.

Some people who are vehemently against having kids, end up taking in kids in need, and building wonderful, warm homes for those kids, who desperately need support.

Some people's kids die before them.

Some people have kids, cannot take care of them well enough, and their kids are removed from their care for their safety.

Some kids are orphaned at a young age.

Life isn't black-and-white. Plenty of people have such discussions, and forge ahead regardless, knowing there are a myriad of things beyond talking about this at any given moment in time, that can change the course of things in the future.

I'd imagine plenty of people also rule out people based on their shopping lists on dating sites about who they are, and who they want, and that'd include whether they have, or want, kids.

Edited March 21, 2021 by SaraSays

[kendahke]

Redguitar did not say that either of these people are able to be persuaded to embrace the other's line of thinking--if they were, they wouldn't be fighting over and over about it and this thread wouldn't be here.

When it comes to children, it is black and white and the child is the one who suffers growing up in that kind of toxic environment when one of their parents had to be dragged into parenting. That it turns out well for a tiny, tiny, minuscule fraction of incompatible couples is non sequitur.

Edited March 21, 2021 by kendahke

[SaraSays]

 

34 minutes ago, kendahke said:

Redguitar did not say that either of these people are able to be persuaded to embrace the other's line of thinking

I wouldn't expect our poster to know that, mindful it isn't their relationship, and they have a friendship with 1 of the partners. The absence of it being mentioned doesn't tell us anything about this relationship. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
argumentative

[kendahke]

Do you?

I don't agree with you. Leave it at that.

[Wiseman2]

 

3 hours ago, Redguitar35 said:

My best friend is constantly telling about fights between him and his wife of six years. It comes and goes. They’ll fight and be on the verge of a divorce and then he’ll take her on some trip or vacation and it dies down.

Have a beer, just say 'that sucks' alternating with 'that's great'. All you can do with people like this.

If they wanted solutions they would have found them long ago.

If you feel like he's using you as the complaint department too much, just keep this short and be busy more.

[Redguitar35]

3 hours ago, Alvi said:

 

Quote

Why are you in the middle of their business by the way?

That's a strange comment to make on a site where people comment on other people's dating or relationship situations. It's also a mischaracterization on your part. I'm not trying to solve it for them or "in the middle of it". I'm just curious what the endgame in a dysfunctional relationship like this would be and what is really going on with these two. As others have mentioned, there's not very much middle ground between having a baby and not having one. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Redguitar35

[dramafreezone]

I'd say the majority of relationships are dysfunctional in some sense.  That said, if one person wants kids and the other is certain that they don't, then the relationship is doomed to fail eventually in my opinion.  People can change their minds about those issues, but if neither does one will harbor resentment to the other.

Some couples can argue regularly and that works for them.  Your friend may just want a sounding board, so don't feel like you have to solve his issues.

Edited March 21, 2021 by dramafreezone

[trident_2020]

That's a major issue and one of them is going to lose big time.

Either one of them gives in and learns to live with the consequences or they split, sooner rather than later while they've got time to build something with someone new who aligns better with their personal goals.

Right now they're just wasting each other's time and experiencing a ton of stress that is only briefly alleviated by vacations or whatever other distractions they can find to momentarily divert them from their troubles.

 

[kendahke]

1 hour ago, Redguitar35 said:

I'm just curious what the endgame in a dysfunctional relationship like this would be and what is really going on with these two.

I'm curious, Redguitar---why do you label their relationship as dysfunctional? What are you seeing playing out between the two of them that led you to that conclusion?

Edited March 21, 2021 by kendahke

[Redguitar35]

28 minutes ago, kendahke said:

I'm curious, Redguitar---why do you label their relationship as dysfunctional? What are you seeing playing out between the two of them that led you to that conclusion?

It's dysfunctional because they are clearly unhappy and not doing anything about it. And for the reason trident_2020 stated: "They're just wasting each other's time and experiencing a ton of stress that is only briefly alleviated by vacations or whatever other distractions they can find to momentarily divert them from their troubles." His wife is being foolish in my opinion. She's willing to give up her dream of having a baby in order to stay with my friend who doesn't want kids. That's absurd in my view. I think that's a recipe for resentment down the line when she realizes she wasted her child bearing years with someone who doesn't want kids. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Redguitar35

[kendahke]

38 minutes ago, Redguitar35 said:

It's dysfunctional because they are clearly unhappy and not doing anything about it. And for the reason trident_2020 stated: "They're just wasting each other's time and experiencing a ton of stress that is only briefly alleviated by vacations or whatever other distractions they can find to momentarily divert them from their troubles." His wife is being foolish in my opinion. She's willing to give up her dream of having a baby in order to stay with my friend who doesn't want kids. That's absurd in my view. I think that's a recipe for resentment down the line when she realizes she wasted her child bearing years with someone who doesn't want kids. 

Yep, that's pretty much textbook definition of the word.

Is she the sort to stoop to an "oopsy" pregnancy?

Has he or is he going to get a vasectomy?

Edited March 21, 2021 by kendahke

[Lotsgoingon]

The marriage counselor John Gottman talks about two types of conflicts in a marriage: solvable and unsolvable. Actually most conflicts are in the "unsolvable" category. I think Gottman's number is 69 percent of marriage differences can't be solved.

By unsolvable, he means that the couple cannot reach a resolution and agreement and put the issue to rest. These unsolvable conflicts have to managed, and negotiated repeatedly over time. If I don't like my wife's mother, and my wife wants to frequently visit her mother, then that difference will have to be negotiated over time. It ain't gonna be solved and put to rest. And that's inevitable that couples have lots of these disagreements. We're wildly different no matter how similar we think we are when we marry. 

The wanna have kids vs don't wanna have kids issue is a huge unsolvable problem. So unsolvable that I think most marriage counselors say don't marry someone if you disagree on having kids. Kids is an all or nothing issue. Inviting nieces and nephews over for some weekends isn't going to please the person who wants children. And saying "our relationship will stay the same" isn't going to please the person who does NOT want to have children. 

So I wouldn't say your friend's marriage is dysfunctional. I think of dysfunctional relationships as those where the conflict isn't even clear, or a confusing that is confusing on multiple levels or just plain dumb. A dysfunctional marriage is one where even when one partner tries to back down the other is so angry that they don't acknowledge that the other has backed off. Dysfunctional marriages often have secrets and areas they're avoiding. And  they can't have a direct conflict .An argument about the dishes becomes "you never treated my sister with respect." 

Your buddy and his wife are right to be arguing about this. That's very functional. Because the issue is important for both of them. And it's not something one can just snap their fingers and "pretend" everything is ok with. That would result in disaster.  They need to be fighting over this. 

What is naive or not very wise is that they got married without having solved this issue. That was spectacularly dumb on both of their parts. Young couples don't understand that you don't get married thinking you are going to change your partner's mind or thinking that your partner will at all change. Totally wrong thinking. 

Just put your response on automatic: 

"Oh man, sorry to hear that. Oh man, that sucks. Oh man, that's really frustrating. That's hard." All true. All affirm his pain. And you don't need to pretend to be able to solve a problem that they need to solve. 

Now if he ASKS you directly about divorce, then say something if you want. But be slow there as well, because married people who contemplate divorce notoriously change their minds and some then hold secret resentment against friends who suggested they divorce--even when they begged the friend to give honest advice. 

Your friends need to continue fighting and then if they cannot agree, they need to divorce. 

[ShyViolet]

Yes it sounds kind of dysfunctional.  Or maybe a better characterization is that they are just incompatible and are wasting their time staying in this marriage.

In any case, it's not your job to give your friend advice.... if you're all out of advice then just tell him that.  Say "I am all out of advice." and leave it at that.  You can't solve their problems for them.