Author heavenonearth Posted March 26, 2021 Author Posted March 26, 2021 27 minutes ago, Gaeta said: 10 months is 300 days. You have spent a total of 30 days together I'm rounding. That means 90% of your relationship is online. Why wait another 2 months to see him to address something that brings you anxiety? When everything else, conversation, bond, connection all of that is addressed online. I just really want for him to say it without me demanding it or pressuring him. I feel it would be the most unromantic thing to ask “hey do you even love me?” Again, that’s why I will wait until I see him again. We cannot see each other right now unfortunately so will have to wait another three weeks until we see each other
Gaeta Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, heavenonearth said: “hey do you even love me?” It's not what we suggested. It's more about him clarifying what he means by *not there yet*
Author heavenonearth Posted March 26, 2021 Author Posted March 26, 2021 3 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: I feel like it’s different, though. It’s different than just in for the indefinite future or I am this persons partner IE exclusive. The word ‘love’ is just extremely loaded in our culture. It’s basically a declaration of utter and complete dedication. Like when you feel you love someone and they say hey will you come to me, since move nearby, quite a distance, then you’re like yeah, nothing will stop me. We are going to be together ASAP. Because I love you. If you’re happy in the situation and you find it perfect, that’s great. I only said that in my opinion your anxiety is perfectly warranted. I’ve been in situations with men where I loved them but I just did not feel “in love “ with them. I was exclusive and I said all those things, but I would be lying if I said “I love you.” It was too strong of a word to use. Things may seem perfect, but I just suggest that you look at what this really means to him. What it means to him that he will not say this word to you. What that signifies. Because I think it holds some weight. & if that’s okay with you, then I see no reason not to be with him . But this whole thread just, like, gives me the feeling you’re not what do you mean with “our culture”?
Miss Spider Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, heavenonearth said: what do you mean with “our culture”? Oh I was assuming the western world, but because of its influence, pretty cross-cultural. But I think there’s some evidence that the general meaning/significance of romantic love dates back even further, with analogues of it found in various ancient cultures Edited March 26, 2021 by Cookiesandough
Author heavenonearth Posted March 26, 2021 Author Posted March 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Cookiesandough said: Oh I was assuming the western world, but because of its influence, pretty cross-cultural. But I think there’s some evidence that the general meaning/significance of romantic love dates back even further, with analogues of it found in various ancient cultures but some western cultures are also way more liberal with the phrase ILY than others. i would say it’s way more liberally used in the US, for example, compared to a european nordic country.
introverted1 Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 18 hours ago, Gaeta said: Different countries and something like 10 hour drive. 18 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: Not surprised at all he’s not fully committing I think it's 500km, which is ~300 miles, so about a 4-hour drive. I think it's covid restrictions that are the issue more so than the drive at this point. Regardless, it's pretty clear he's not on the same page as Heaven. He's plenty able to articulate his feelings on other topics (as per Heaven's posts), so it seems likely that he'd be able to call it love if he was actually feeling love. 2
Gaeta Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 Found it: We are currently 500 km from each other (30 min flight).
Author heavenonearth Posted March 26, 2021 Author Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, introverted1 said: Regardless, it's pretty clear he's not on the same page as Heaven. He's plenty able to articulate his feelings on other topics (as per Heaven's posts), so it seems likely that he'd be able to call it love if he was actually feeling love. :(( the majority of you say this. i guess it’s true after all. i trust him that he’s true to me but ... it is clear he’s just not in love with me. Edited March 26, 2021 by heavenonearth
Gaeta Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, heavenonearth said: it is clear he’s just not in love with me. He said he has never been in love before. Maybe he can't identify the feeling of *in love*. He did remain with his ex for 3 years. Why did he stay this long in a relationship without being *in love* ? Maybe he was in love and didn't identify it as such.
BaileyB Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Gaeta said: He said he has never been in love before. Maybe he can't identify the feeling of *in love*. He did remain with his ex for 3 years. Why did he stay this long in a relationship without being *in love* ? Maybe he was in love and didn't identify it as such. I agree Gaeta. He has autism. I don’t mean to belabour the point, but autism is a spectrum disorder in which individuals have difficulties with social skills and relationships. Of course, he is capable of loving another person - but does he have the self awareness to identify this emotion and communicate it to a relationship partner - perhaps, perhaps not. If you look at the stats, individuals with Autism are less likely to have romantic relationships and far less likely to marry than others who are neurotypical. I don’t know that anyone can use the same measuring stick, draw the same assumptions, as they would in another relationship (presumably, between two neurotypical individuals - whatever that means). For Heaven to be in a relationship with this, she will need to accept that some things will be different than another relationship - and this may be one of those differences. It will take patience and understanding but it doesn’t mean that it can’t be done. 2
Wiseman2 Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 8 hours ago, heavenonearth said: but some western cultures are also way more liberal with the phrase ILY than others. i would say it’s way more liberally used in the US, for example, compared to a european nordic country. Agree. This seems a lot like a language and cultural differential. It may be more liberally applied in your culture/language and more reserved for longer term, more serious relationships in his. Hence "not there yet". That's ok.
Miss Spider Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, heavenonearth said: but some western cultures are also way more liberal with the phrase ILY than others. i would say it’s way more liberally used in the US, for example, compared to a european nordic country. I am in the US. It means the same thing. Just because certain people exaggerate or abuse the word, or say they love a smoothie or something, doesn’t mean it’s any different in it’s significance when it’s said in the context we are talking about in this thread. I think we are splitting hairs here a bit though. Could it be that in his unusual culture they don’t say they love each other until they’ve been together for years and years? It’s possible. I just don’t think that’s probable in the slightest. I think it’s about the emotional attachment that he doesn’t quite feel for you at a year. I don’t think that bodes well at all.But I wish you the best Edited March 26, 2021 by Cookiesandough
Author heavenonearth Posted March 27, 2021 Author Posted March 27, 2021 6 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: I am in the US. It means the same thing. Just because certain people exaggerate or abuse the word, or say they love a smoothie or something, doesn’t mean it’s any different in it’s significance when it’s said in the context we are talking about in this thread. I think we are splitting hairs here a bit though. Could it be that in his unusual culture they don’t say they love each other until they’ve been together for years and years? It’s possible. I just don’t think that’s probable in the slightest. I think it’s about the emotional attachment that he doesn’t quite feel for you at a year. I don’t think that bodes well at all.But I wish you the best so you and many others here agree that the fact he hasn’t said ILY means that i am more into him that he is into me and that it won’t end well for me? so i might as well break up with him now, right? what’s the point in continuing with him if he’s never gonna love me like i love him?
Gaeta Posted March 27, 2021 Posted March 27, 2021 1 hour ago, heavenonearth said: what’s the point in continuing with him if he’s never gonna love me like i love him? Just ask him
ShyViolet Posted March 28, 2021 Posted March 28, 2021 On 3/26/2021 at 8:30 PM, heavenonearth said: so you and many others here agree that the fact he hasn’t said ILY means that i am more into him that he is into me and that it won’t end well for me? so i might as well break up with him now, right? what’s the point in continuing with him if he’s never gonna love me like i love him? I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to wait until the next time you see him in person. See how that goes. Talk to him about this and see if he says he loves you. If I were you, I would consider breaking up with him if he doesn't say it the next time you see him in person. Or if he still says that he's "not there yet." I would never stay with someone who doesn't feel the same way about me that I do about them. It would just hurt too much. Yes, "I love you" is only three little words. But in normal relationships, people tell their partner that they love them. By him refusing to say it, he's making you feel bad. He's making you feel insecure. It's directly hurting you. 2
Author heavenonearth Posted March 29, 2021 Author Posted March 29, 2021 20 hours ago, ShyViolet said: I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to wait until the next time you see him in person. See how that goes. Talk to him about this and see if he says he loves you. If I were you, I would consider breaking up with him if he doesn't say it the next time you see him in person. Or if he still says that he's "not there yet." I would never stay with someone who doesn't feel the same way about me that I do about them. It would just hurt too much. Yes, "I love you" is only three little words. But in normal relationships, people tell their partner that they love them. By him refusing to say it, he's making you feel bad. He's making you feel insecure. It's directly hurting you. You are right. I will wait until the next time we see each other. That will hopefully be in three weeks, when lockdown restrictions for international travel loosen up. I am struggling a lot at the moment with not telling him I love him. I want to say it all the time but I feel I cannot do so, bc I am afraid he wont say it back. So instead I just always say "I miss you". It really needs to come from him soon, because I feel dumb holding in how much I feel for him all the time.
FMW Posted March 29, 2021 Posted March 29, 2021 2 hours ago, heavenonearth said: I am struggling a lot at the moment with not telling him I love him. Then when you feel like it, tell him. I understand why you are holding back, but if not expressing your own feelings is hard on you, then say it. Let him deal with it, just like you've had to deal with his response. You shouldn't have to censor your own thoughts and feelings with him. If nothing changes on his end in response, then you've lost nothing from where you are right now. Not dealing with it doesn't change anything. 1
elaine567 Posted March 29, 2021 Posted March 29, 2021 Few want to be saying "I love you" to someone who has never said it back. I would not be saying it in this situation. It would be too awkward and embarrassing, if not actually humiliating to say it.
poppyfields Posted March 29, 2021 Posted March 29, 2021 (edited) Does anyone remember the movie "Ghost"? Great flick. Demi Moore always said "I love you" to her boyfriend (Patrick Swayze) and he could never say it back. All he would say in response was "ditto." This hurt her tremendously and she voiced that, but then accepted this was his way, his style of expression. It was clear through his actions however that he loved her tremendously. I am not understanding what's so embarrassing or humiliating about telling someone (your boyfriend, husband, father, brother) you love them regardless of whether or not they say it back. Growing up, I was always hugging and kissing my dad, telling him I loved him; he NEVER said it back. Until later years, when he was much older. Yet I knew how much he loved me, he wouid have given his life for me if it came to that. In my adult relationships with men, the words ILY were rarely spoken, but yet the love was there, which we both expressed in our own way. Me, often with words, without expectation to hear them back. Occasionally, I woujd hear them back and it meant the world to me! But I never "expected" it. Heaven, speak from your heart. If you want to say it, say it! Do not censor yourself or be walking on eggshells, that is not what loving, caring relationships are about. Edited March 29, 2021 by poppyfields 2
Gaeta Posted March 29, 2021 Posted March 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, poppyfields said: I am not understanding what's so embarrassing or humiliating about telling someone (your boyfriend, husband, father, brother) you love them regardless of whether or not they say it back. I agree, I don't see anything humiliating. I was in that position once with a man I was dating for a year. I freely told him ILY without hearing it back, it was actually liberating. At the end of the year I broke up with him for never saying it back. Shortly after our breakup he admitted he was still in love with his ex. Like @FMW said, he doesn't say it and Heaven has to deal with it, then she should say it freely and let him deal with that. Actually if Heaven starts saying it, it may push him to come forward with why he's not saying it. 1
poppyfields Posted March 29, 2021 Posted March 29, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Gaeta said: Actually if Heaven starts saying it, it may push him to come forward with why he's not saying it. Agree with your entire post Gaeta, but re this^, @heavenonearth, let the words come from your heart, NOT because you're hoping to hear back, or having that expectation. The former is selfless, the latter is selfish - giving to receive something in return. Love and/or the expression thereof is not transactional, or shouldn't be imo. Edited March 29, 2021 by poppyfields 1
ShyViolet Posted March 29, 2021 Posted March 29, 2021 24 minutes ago, poppyfields said: Does anyone remember the movie "Ghost"? Great flick. Demi Moore always said "I love you" to her boyfriend (Patrick Swayze) and he could never say it back. All he would say in response was "ditto." This hurt her tremendously and she voiced that, but then accepted this was his way, his style of expression. That's his "style of expression?" I'm sorry but that's BS. Look how bad it's making the OP feel that her boyfriend refuses to tell her that he loves her. It's making her feel insecure in the relationship. In normal, grown-up relationships, significant others tell each other that they love them. That's not too much to expect. By him not saying it, it is having the effect of making her feel really bad which is throwing this whole relationship out of balance. Even if he has some hangups or issues which make it hard for him to say those three little words, he should get over it and say them for her sake, for her feelings. (And that's assuming he does actually FEEL it, which maybe he doesn't and that's the reason he's not saying it!!) 1 1
Author heavenonearth Posted March 29, 2021 Author Posted March 29, 2021 I just hope he does love me bc if he wouldn't, then I don't see a single reason for him to be in this relationship with me, it is really hard to be long distance during Covid and we have not seen each other for 3 months now. It's been so difficult. I feel if he wouldn't love me, he wouldn't put up with that. I am putting up with it bc I love him very much and look forward to a future without travel restrictions.
Author heavenonearth Posted March 29, 2021 Author Posted March 29, 2021 3 hours ago, ShyViolet said: That's his "style of expression?" I'm sorry but that's BS. Look how bad it's making the OP feel that her boyfriend refuses to tell her that he loves her. It's making her feel insecure in the relationship. In normal, grown-up relationships, significant others tell each other that they love them. That's not too much to expect. By him not saying it, it is having the effect of making her feel really bad which is throwing this whole relationship out of balance. Even if he has some hangups or issues which make it hard for him to say those three little words, he should get over it and say them for her sake, for her feelings. (And that's assuming he does actually FEEL it, which maybe he doesn't and that's the reason he's not saying it!!) what would be signs that he doesn't love me, other than him not saying ILY? i wish i could figure it out without having to have this conversation before seeing him in person.
ShyViolet Posted March 29, 2021 Posted March 29, 2021 58 minutes ago, heavenonearth said: what would be signs that he doesn't love me, other than him not saying ILY? i wish i could figure it out without having to have this conversation before seeing him in person. I don't know. I think talking to him the next time you see him in 3 weeks is a good plan. Don't feel like you have to stifle your feelings. Tell him that you love him and that you've been thinking a lot about what he said last time when he said he's "not there yet." Tell him that at almost a year of being together, you feel like you need to know whether he is "there yet" now. Point blank ask him, "Do you love me?" If his answer is anything other than yes, I would dump him. If he gives you some BS about "I'm just not good with this stuff,"... "this is not my communication style".... yeah, I'd be out the door. I wouldn't put up with someone who makes me feel bad and who doesn't feel the same way towards me that I feel about them.
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