Phone call last night, am I crazy or is he gaslighting?

[Hope21]

5 year relationship.  44 and 47, live apart.  We typically see each other 4 – 5 days per week.  Last night I was home, and like we do any night I am home, we talk on the phone before going to bed.
 
Last night I call him and it says he is on the other line. (Verizon, ‘call in waiting’ comes up).  I shoot him a text just says “Hi babe!  Call me when you’re free.”  He read it.  An hour goes by and I don’t hear back, it’s getting late, and I text “Everything ok?”  20 minutes later he calls me, and he has clearly been drinking. 
 
Him: “Babe, I fell asleep!”
Me: “You were sleeping?” He confirms, no details, I don’t remember his exact words.
Me: “Does the person you were on the phone with know you were asleep?  Because that’s awkward.”
Dead silence.
Him: “Yeah actually, I did fall asleep while I was on the phone.”
Me: “You’re drunk. Who were you on the phone with?”
Him: “I admit, I am tipsy.” (didn’t address the phone call)
Me: (now I am angry, so something like) “You’re drunk and you just lied to me about falling asleep, when you were actually on the phone.”
He hangs up on me. 
 
1 minute later, he calls back.  I asked him if that was enough time to come up with a story.  He tells me that he was on the phone with Sally, a woman who works for the same employer as him.  He tells me he was on the phone with her, he fell asleep talking to her, then he got off the phone and dozed off, and then woke up and called me, so he wasn’t lying to me.  We only were on the phone 5 minutes but it was a quick heated argument.  I told him he lied, I didn’t deserve to be lied to.  I know of Sally, they were hired at the same time, he told me she slept her way to the top and she was disgusting.  Yet, he’s friends with her?  And he's also told me that men and women can’t be just friends, one always wants more.  But now they are friends.  He told me to enjoy my lunacy, and I told him to enjoy his alcoholism.   (It bothered me that he is home alone on a Monday night, drunk)
 
Then, he texts me … and it continues a bit.  And I say unless you took a work call that just happened to coincide with when I called and you promptly fell asleep, you did lie, because you told me you were asleep.  He sent me a screenshot of the call log then:
 
She called him at 6:16 pm.  They talked for 3 hours 25 min.  (my first call and text fell within this timeframe)
Disconnected at 9:42 pm.
She called back at 9:42, he didn’t answer, and then again at 9:43, he does answer.  They talk again until 10 pm. (my second text is during this)
He called me at 10:01.
 
He now says when they disconnected is when he fell asleep, which I believe is true based on the calls and his condition, but he still was not forthcoming.  He was basically on the phone with this woman from 6:16 pm – 10:00 pm.
 
1)  When he realized I knew he was on the phone, he changed his story from being asleep to falling asleep on the phone and afterwards between phone calls, saying that is what he was referring to.  That is impossible, he hung up with her at 10 and called me at 10:01.
2)  Almost 4 hours on the phone with this woman?  While drinking?  Am I really as crazy, or is this a concern?
 
2 weeks ago he talked to her for an hour and a half, and she had called because someone they mutually knew at work was sick, and he told me about it.  But this is not the same.  I don’t like this, I admit, I don’t like who I was during this argument.  He has another female work friend, who I met, who I like, and he has never lied to me about talking to. I have never, asked him who he was on the phone with.  But late at night, he was drinking, something felt wrong about it.  He tried to hide this.  Why?  If it is all innocent, why do that?
 
I will acknowledge – I know I have trust/abandonment issues.  I know sometimes they are not logical.  And honestly, I don’t think he is physically cheating with this woman.  He has been essentially working at home a year and hasn’t even seen her.  But this just didn’t feel right in my gut.
 
This is not a perfect relationship, we’ve been having intimacy issues for a few years now, and this was just the straw that broke the camel’s back.  I’ve hung in there in a near sexless relationship because he has continually promised it will improve, and because of course like the fool I am, I love him.  That is a whole separate novel.  But I essentially ended things last night.  And I don’t know if I really am crazy like he said I am, or if he is gaslighting me.  We have a lot invested in this relationship, or so I thought.  Our families are connected, we all have plans tomorrow. I don’t know if I did the right thing, because sometimes my insecurities get the best of me.  Our intimacy issues obviously don’t help that.  I am just looking for some feedback on this situation. 
 

This morning, he texted me that he loves me, didn't realize the timeliness until he looked at our texts this morning, is sad, is committed to making this work.  
 

[introverted1]

4 hours on the phone with the "disgusting" co-worker who "slept her way to the top"?  Something's rotten in Denmark.

Edited March 16, 2021 by introverted1

[vla1120]

Listen to your gut. Even if he hasn't seen her in person for the past year, talking to her on the phone for well over three and a half hours is unnecessary and uncalled for that late at night, unless they're having an emotional affair (or worse), plus, it's not the first time they've talked on the phone for an extended period of time. Who talks on the phone for that long? Also, don't make decisions about your relationship based on the fact that your families are connected. This is about the two of you and it does not sound like the relationship is built on a very solid foundation. 

[Gaeta]

Is there an issue at work that they wanted to ventilate about? 

I wouldn't care much about a long phone call with a female co-worker. What would have me reconsider my relationship with this man is him being drunk on a Monday night. I personally don't date men that drinks. It's a pain in the neck I don't want to deal with. 

[Hope21]

Gaeta, I agree about the drinking, and I said that to him last night as well.

Not really, it was appraisal time and she got new goals that crossover to his former staff and they started by talking about that, but then were sharing old work stories from when they were in the same dept.  Allegedly.  Then why not just say that last night?

[Gaeta]

6 minutes ago, Hope21 said:

  Then why not just say that last night?

Probably because you were pissed,  he felt on the defensive and too drunk to think straight. 

[Starswillshine]

There is little reason to spend nearly 4 hours on the phone with a co-worker while drinking. I have pretty extreme standards for boundaries, so my opinions comes stem from that. However, this would be a no go for me. And a huge issue. Follow your gut. 

[poppyfields]

To answer your thread title:

>> He told me to enjoy my lunacy.

Yes, that's gaslighting.  He did something quite questionable, and you confronted.  Him suggesting you're crazy which is what he did, is classic gaslighting.

It's funny, I just watched a video last night about gaslighting because it's one of those terms that gets tossed around a lot, but yeah, what he did was definitely gaslighting.

Do not start questioning yourself or your reality about this.  His behavior with this female co-worker was flat out inappropriate for a man in a committed relationship, and combined with the lack of sexual intimacy, if me I would be rethinking this relationship and having a future with this man. 

As Expat said, something smells rotten in Denmark.

Edited March 16, 2021 by poppyfields

[introverted1]

3 hours ago, introverted1 said:

4 hours on the phone with the "disgusting" co-worker who "slept her way to the top"?  Something's rotten in Denmark.

 

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

As Expat said, something smells rotten in Denmark.

I'm still me...

[poppyfields]

32 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

 

I'm still me...

Oh shoot, @intro big apologies, my bad!

Edited March 16, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

3 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Probably because you were pissed,  he felt on the defensive and too drunk to think straight. 

The video last night said another gaslighting technique is when your partner withholds information from you (like speaking with a female co-worker late at night for 3.5 hours, or communicating with his ex or anything else he knows he shouldn't be doing) under the guise of "you're so sensitive, you would have been upset and caused drama."

IOW, he lied because you can't handle the truth.  Making it your fault he lied.  Classis gaslighting.  

Please don't allow any man or anyone to distort your reality like that.

What he did was inappropriate, I don't buy for one second they were discussing "work issues" late at night for 3.5 hours.

This might actually be a dealbreaker for me.  It's bad enough he engages in questionable late night calls with a female co-worker, but when you question him about it, he lies and tells you to "enjoy your lunacy"?

I don't think so!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by poppyfields

[dramafreezone]

Sounds like a dysfunctional relationship.

[NYAG]

4 hours ago, Hope21 said:

5 year relationship.  44 and 47, live apart.  We typically see each other 4 – 5 days per week.  Last night I was home, and like we do any night I am home, we talk on the phone before going to bed.
 
Last night I call him and it says he is on the other line. (Verizon, ‘call in waiting’ comes up).  I shoot him a text just says “Hi babe!  Call me when you’re free.”  He read it.  An hour goes by and I don’t hear back, it’s getting late, and I text “Everything ok?”  20 minutes later he calls me, and he has clearly been drinking. 
 
Him: “Babe, I fell asleep!”
Me: “You were sleeping?” He confirms, no details, I don’t remember his exact words.
Me: “Does the person you were on the phone with know you were asleep?  Because that’s awkward.”
Dead silence.
Him: “Yeah actually, I did fall asleep while I was on the phone.”
Me: “You’re drunk. Who were you on the phone with?”
Him: “I admit, I am tipsy.” (didn’t address the phone call)
Me: (now I am angry, so something like) “You’re drunk and you just lied to me about falling asleep, when you were actually on the phone.”
He hangs up on me. 
 
1 minute later, he calls back.  I asked him if that was enough time to come up with a story.  He tells me that he was on the phone with Sally, a woman who works for the same employer as him.  He tells me he was on the phone with her, he fell asleep talking to her, then he got off the phone and dozed off, and then woke up and called me, so he wasn’t lying to me.  We only were on the phone 5 minutes but it was a quick heated argument.  I told him he lied, I didn’t deserve to be lied to.  I know of Sally, they were hired at the same time, he told me she slept her way to the top and she was disgusting.  Yet, he’s friends with her?  And he's also told me that men and women can’t be just friends, one always wants more.  But now they are friends.  He told me to enjoy my lunacy, and I told him to enjoy his alcoholism.   (It bothered me that he is home alone on a Monday night, drunk)
 
Then, he texts me … and it continues a bit.  And I say unless you took a work call that just happened to coincide with when I called and you promptly fell asleep, you did lie, because you told me you were asleep.  He sent me a screenshot of the call log then:
 
She called him at 6:16 pm.  They talked for 3 hours 25 min.  (my first call and text fell within this timeframe)
Disconnected at 9:42 pm.
She called back at 9:42, he didn’t answer, and then again at 9:43, he does answer.  They talk again until 10 pm. (my second text is during this)
He called me at 10:01.
 
He now says when they disconnected is when he fell asleep, which I believe is true based on the calls and his condition, but he still was not forthcoming.  He was basically on the phone with this woman from 6:16 pm – 10:00 pm.
 
1)  When he realized I knew he was on the phone, he changed his story from being asleep to falling asleep on the phone and afterwards between phone calls, saying that is what he was referring to.  That is impossible, he hung up with her at 10 and called me at 10:01.
2)  Almost 4 hours on the phone with this woman?  While drinking?  Am I really as crazy, or is this a concern?
 
2 weeks ago he talked to her for an hour and a half, and she had called because someone they mutually knew at work was sick, and he told me about it.  But this is not the same.  I don’t like this, I admit, I don’t like who I was during this argument.  He has another female work friend, who I met, who I like, and he has never lied to me about talking to. I have never, asked him who he was on the phone with.  But late at night, he was drinking, something felt wrong about it.  He tried to hide this.  Why?  If it is all innocent, why do that?
 
I will acknowledge – I know I have trust/abandonment issues.  I know sometimes they are not logical.  And honestly, I don’t think he is physically cheating with this woman.  He has been essentially working at home a year and hasn’t even seen her.  But this just didn’t feel right in my gut.
 
This is not a perfect relationship, we’ve been having intimacy issues for a few years now, and this was just the straw that broke the camel’s back.  I’ve hung in there in a near sexless relationship because he has continually promised it will improve, and because of course like the fool I am, I love him.  That is a whole separate novel.  But I essentially ended things last night.  And I don’t know if I really am crazy like he said I am, or if he is gaslighting me.  We have a lot invested in this relationship, or so I thought.  Our families are connected, we all have plans tomorrow. I don’t know if I did the right thing, because sometimes my insecurities get the best of me.  Our intimacy issues obviously don’t help that.  I am just looking for some feedback on this situation. 
 

This morning, he texted me that he loves me, didn't realize the timeliness until he looked at our texts this morning, is sad, is committed to making this work.  
 

Sounds incredibly iffy to me. I would be backing away from this at great speed.

[Calmandfocused]

Correct decision to end the relationship Op. He cannot be trusted.  
 

Yep Poppy’s right, a gaslight right at the end there. Puts the blame back onto you....ignore. Your concerns are 100% valid. 
 

A sexless relationship, inappropriate boundaries with another woman and gets hopelessly drunk on a work/ week night? He doesn’t sound like a prize to me. 
 

Have you ever thought he might be sexless with you because he’s having sex with Sally? That was my immediate thought. 
 

The length of the phone call suggests to me a level of intimacy that goes beyond the boundaries of casual work relationship. Big time! 
 

Abort mission. 

 

[notbroken]

I don't believe he had a 4 hour phone call with a female coworker - or anyone else for that matter.  Just doesn't make sense.   Drinking on a Monday.  No proof at all, but I'm guessing he had a 4 hour 'meeting' with her. 

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Hope21 said:

I know I have trust/abandonment issues. 

Has he done stuff like this before? Sometimes people "have trust/abandonment issues", when a partner is untrustworthy and disappears with vague and lame excuses.

It sounds like this situation is starting to cause more headaches and heartaches than it's worth. So much so you are starting to believe you're the one "with issues".

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Oh shoot, @intro big apologies, my bad!

To be fair, it does sound like something I would say! 

We apparently think alike, @introverted1 and I. 

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, Hope21 said:

2)  Almost 4 hours on the phone with this woman?  While drinking?  Am I really as crazy, or is this a concern?
 
 

This is a concern. You’re not crazy. Emotional affair. Will likely move to physical if it hasn’t already. Is he worth it?

[poppyfields]

38 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

To be fair, it does sound like something I would say! 

We apparently think alike, @introverted1 and I. 

You definitely do!  And you share similar posting styles as well.  I often mix you both up and go back to edit, but I missed it this time!

Edited March 16, 2021 by poppyfields

[introverted1]

37 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

To be fair, it does sound like something I would say! 

We apparently think alike, @introverted1 and I. 

I am honored to have been confused with you. 

[lana-banana]

7 hours ago, Hope21 said:

Me: (now I am angry, so something like) “You’re drunk and you just lied to me about falling asleep, when you were actually on the phone.”
... 
1 minute later, he calls back.  I asked him if that was enough time to come up with a story.

... 

I told him he lied, I didn’t deserve to be lied to...I told him to enjoy his alcoholism. 

I don’t like this, I admit, I don’t like who I was during this argument.   But this just didn’t feel right in my gut.

Maybe you don't like who you were, but I sure do: you have a solid gut instinct and a spine. Rather than tolerate such blatant disrespect you did the grown-up thing and called it quits. The reason you were so forceful is because his behavior was so appalling; I don't think a "kinder" approach would have helped anything. Do not let this jerk cause you to have doubts. It's very obvious that you are wise enough to take care of yourself. This man is trash, but you obviously rule, and don't you forget it.

[MsJayne]

Yes, that is definitely gaslighting. Sally sounds like she needs to get a life if she's got three hours to spend whining about work at that time of the evening. What a downer! Who needs that sort of negativity?  If Sally slept her way into her job he's a fool for venting to her, or listening to her, and she's just plain old inappropriate ringing work colleagues outside of work hours and gabbing for three hours. Why is he even encouraging this woman to confide in him? I'm glad you ended things with him, because even if you get back together he will think twice about treating you like a simpleton, and also because he's encouraging the attentions of the Office Bike. 

[Hope21]

I just wanted to pop in and thank everyone so much, I keep.coming back here to get strength to get through this. He doesn't understand how I could end a 5 year relationship over this, over a phone call he's had with someone he's worked with 13 years. And then I am questioning if I'm doing the right thing. 

[Gaeta]

20 minutes ago, Hope21 said:

I just wanted to pop in and thank everyone so much, I keep.coming back here to get strength to get through this. He doesn't understand how I could end a 5 year relationship over this, over a phone call he's had with someone he's worked with 13 years. And then I am questioning if I'm doing the right thing. 

But you are not breaking up just for that. 

The man is an alcoholic

He has no libido and doesn't address why. Probably caused by his alcoholism. 

He doesn't even sound nice toward you

You are 44 it's time to get yourself a real man. At your age you have the best of both world you have the brain and still got the looks. Honestly do you want to stay with this man for the rest of your lifle!

 

[introverted1]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

But you are not breaking up just for that. 

The man is an alcoholic

He has no libido and doesn't address why. Probably caused by his alcoholism. 

He doesn't even sound nice toward you

You are 44 it's time to get yourself a real man. At your age you have the best of both world you have the brain and still got the looks. Honestly do you want to stay with this man for the rest of your lifle!

 

This.

And I'd add to Gaeta's list that he lied to you, gaslit you, and tried to make it seem that you're the one with the problem ("enjoy your lunacy"). 

And he's continuing to blame shift by refusing to accept responsibility for his actions. Instead, he's trying to get you to doubt yourself by framing this as a break up over a "simple phone call." 

If he was serious about making amends, he'd stop drinking, see a doctor for his lack of libido, give some real thought to how/why his behavior that night was inappropriate, and offer a sincere apology that acknowledges how things will be different in the future.

I think you're doing the right thing, OP.