Wanting to Progress Faster Than Girlfriend. How to Keep From Being Hurt?

[poppyfields]

Love2Love, just caught up with this thread.  Something you just posted re "giving" really stood out to me so thought I'd address.  You wrote:

>>But then, I even overthink that.  Because then, I wonder if I don't give someone my all, how are they supposed to know what I offer?  I feel like then, if they are dating others at the same time as me, someone else could come off as more appealing, because that person makes more effort, while I hold back."

You are your own worst enemy here because to get what you desire, it's actually the exact opposite. 

Have you ever studied eastern philosophy/religion or physics?

In Eastern philosophy/religion, there is a spiritual law called "The Law of Least Effort."   In physics, it's called the "Path of Least Resistance" which is [quote] "resistance of the physical or metaphorical pathway that provides the least resistance to forward motion by a given object or entity, among a set of alternative paths."   

It can apply to human behavior as well.

The Law of Least Effort:

"This law is based on the fact that nature's intelligence functions with effortless ease and abandoned carefreeness. This is the principle of least action, of no resistance. This is, therefore, the principle of harmony and love. When we learn this lesson from nature, we easily fulfill our desires. In Vedic Science, the age-old philosophy of India, this principle is known as the principle of economy of effort, or "do less and accomplish more." 

In layman's terms, it means the more you give, the less you receive.  That does not mean you don't give anything, but if you over-give (which is what you typically do), human nature dictates that the recipient will feel repelled and give less.  It seems to be a pattern with you so I am surprised you have not learned this, at your age.  No judgment, just surprised.

Try leaning back and doing/giving LESS.  In romantic relationships, you may be surprised how women respond and might actually give more.  Again, does not mean doing nothing, but obviously less than you're doing now which is overkill given the short amount of time you've known this women or any woman.  

Research and read about it; this law and the other spiritual laws (seven) are detailed in a great little book called "The Seven Spiritual Law of Success."  I learned a lot from it.  You can also research on line.

There is another book I recommend - "The Path of Least Resistance: Learning to Become the Creative Force in Your Own Life" by Robert Fritz.

Love2Love, your current mindset - believing you must give more, give all you got, in order to stand out above the others and achieve your desires, is not serving you well at all, it's doing the opposite.  You need a major mindshift.

You indicated in a previous post, you have a high IQ but you wanted to increase your EQ.  The books I recommended are a great start.

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by poppyfields

[Love2Love78]

2 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Honestly the best thing you could do for yourself is to take a long break from dating altogether, until you reach a point to where you're perfectly fine being alone.  Not saying you have to love being alone, but you have to have a full, complete life, to where you only need a woman to bring value to it.  You'll know that you're at this point when you can go on a date and then you're evaluating HER, to see if she's worth including in your life.  You'll find that you actually have higher standards, and you won't even consider the type of dates that you consider today.

Thanks again for all your feedback.  I completely get what you're saying. 

As far as the quote above, I did take a break from dating for the better part of 2019-2020.  I focused on myself, learned to be as loving and understanding of myself as I am of other people, and am perfectly fine being alone.

It's not that I'm not ok being alone.  It's just that when I am alone, there are things you just don't have that come with a relationship.  The cuddling, having someone to share your life with long-term, the sex, and all the other perks of a relationship.  Sure, I share my life with friends, but they aren't anyone I'm going to come home to at the end of the day, grow old with, and spend the rest of my life together with.  It's the end result of what a relationship can be and the perks it offers that appeal to me and make me excited.  I'm not sure how to just not care about having those things.  I love sex, I love cuddling, I love having someone I care about deeply to share life with, etc. 

I know I need to go slower from now on when it comes to trying to find someone I might want to share those things with.  But, I don't want to just spend the rest of my life alone, and am already past the "don't need someone" part of codependency. 

Another thing that I guess I wonder about when people encourage going so slow...  say if I only saw someone twice a week for the first two months, or I see them 4-5 times a week those first two months.  I feel like only seeing them twice a week, it's going to take me a lot longer to get to know them, see their true colors, etc.  So yes, the feelings don't come on as fast, but neither does determining if this could be someone you'd want a future with. 

With that said, my question at this point would be how does not seeing the person as often help you to get to know them better before the stronger attachment feelings come?

[dramafreezone]

26 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

Thanks again for all your feedback.  I completely get what you're saying. 

As far as the quote above, I did take a break from dating for the better part of 2019-2020.  I focused on myself, learned to be as loving and understanding of myself as I am of other people, and am perfectly fine being alone.

It's not that I'm not ok being alone.  It's just that when I am alone, there are things you just don't have that come with a relationship.  The cuddling, having someone to share your life with long-term, the sex, and all the other perks of a relationship.  Sure, I share my life with friends, but they aren't anyone I'm going to come home to at the end of the day, grow old with, and spend the rest of my life together with.  It's the end result of what a relationship can be and the perks it offers that appeal to me and make me excited.  I'm not sure how to just not care about having those things.  I love sex, I love cuddling, I love having someone I care about deeply to share life with, etc. 

I know I need to go slower from now on when it comes to trying to find someone I might want to share those things with.  But, I don't want to just spend the rest of my life alone, and am already past the "don't need someone" part of codependency. 

Another thing that I guess I wonder about when people encourage going so slow...  say if I only saw someone twice a week for the first two months, or I see them 4-5 times a week those first two months.  I feel like only seeing them twice a week, it's going to take me a lot longer to get to know them, see their true colors, etc.  So yes, the feelings don't come on as fast, but neither does determining if this could be someone you'd want a future with. 

With that said, my question at this point would be how does not seeing the person as often help you to get to know them better before the stronger attachment feelings come?

You don't need to be in a relationship to have sex or have any of that physical intimacy you like.  You're not special in this regard, most people love and want those things.  Those things just need to be a part of your life, not the majority of it.

You just cannot be happy living a life that revolves around women.  And here's the kicker; they don't want someone who's life revolves around them anyway.  They just want to find someone that's living a full life, so that they can be a part of that full life, not so that you just abandon all of those things that you like to do to make them your life.  Physical intimacy is a very small part of a relatinoship anyway, so when the infatuation stage passes, what else do you have if the relationship is your life?

Also, why are you in such a rush?  All you have to do is create an experience when you spend time with her.  That's it.  The quality of the date is much more important than how many times a week you see her.  Let her ask to see you more.  That's how you'll know that she's ready to be more serious.  The best thing you can hear is "why don't we spend more time together?"   You build up slowly, and then you'll reach a point to where she wants to spend every moment with you.  You set the dates and creat the experience.  Let her lead as far as when to increase how much time you spend together.   You do the opposite, you go asking her if you can spend more time together, you press her about seeing her, it's going to drive her away.

Edited March 12, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Love2Love78]

51 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

You don't need to be in a relationship to have sex or have any of that physical intimacy you like.  You're not special in this regard, most people love and want those things.  Those things just need to be a part of your life, not the majority of it.

You just cannot be happy living a life that revolves around women.  And here's the kicker; they don't want someone who's life revolves around them anyway.  They just want to find someone that's living a full life, so that they can be a part of that full life, not so that you just abandon all of those things that you like to do to make them your life.  Physical intimacy is a very small part of a relatinoship anyway, so when the infatuation stage passes, what else do you have if the relationship is your life?

Also, why are you in such a rush?  All you have to do is create an experience when you spend time with her.  That's it.  The quality of the date is much more important than how many times a week you see her.  Let her ask to see you more.  That's how you'll know that she's ready to be more serious.  The best thing you can hear is "why don't we spend more time together?"   You build up slowly, and then you'll reach a point to where she wants to spend every moment with you.  You set the dates and creat the experience.  Let her lead as far as when to increase how much time you spend together.   You do the opposite, you go asking her if you can spend more time together, you press her about seeing her, it's going to drive her away.

I got you, and thanks for all the feedback. 

As far as sex, it has meaning to me.  Unless I'm with someone I can picture a future with, it's not happening.  So for me, physical intimacy is something that ONLY comes when dating someone I see a potential future with.  That is not something I can change, as that is my values regarding sex.  I literally can't enjoy sex with someone if I feel it's just a one-night stand or there is no future with them.  I know because I've tried a few times in my life and it does nothing for me.

I value the perks that go with a relationship highly.  I value family highly.  My dreams included having a family, raising that family with someone I love, and growing old together with all those memories together.  That dream isn't ever going away, and the older I get, the more of my life goes by alone without a significant other having shared those things with me.  If you were in your 40s and still single, maybe you'd understand yourself.

My mom found the man of her dreams at 65, just two years ago.  And yes, prior to that, she learned how to be happy on her own.  But, she tells me countless times "I never knew I could be this happy!" all the time regarding their relationship.  I feel like some people either delude themselves into thinking they don't care about what a relationship offers, or they are just fine sharing those things with whoever without picturing a future with them (flings, fwb, etc.).  But, I am well aware what a relationship offers that I just can't have without someone else, so being happy on my own doesn't take away knowing I could be *happier* having all I have now, but a significant other to share that with.  If anyone here thinks you can be just as happy with or without someone you love, go ahead and ask anyone happily married or happily in a relationship if they were happier before or after they found that person?

Another thing about my mom.  While she is so happy now that she found him, the one and only thing that saddens her is she tells me "I just wish him and I found each other sooner.  So much of our lives we missed out on, and I don't know how much more time we will have here together before one of us passes away."  Hence, why I would prefer finding my person before I'm in my 60s, all to have a good 10-15yrs with them before our health starts declining. 

It's not like I am in such a rush that I just date anyone and "latch on" or something.  I go on lots of dates where that person doesn't make it past a first date with me because I'm not feeling it.  No sparks, lack of something else, just doesn't happen.  I'm a moderately attractive guy, so as soon as I create a dating profile, I have zero problems finding dates or women.  I already have three lined up for this weekend actually, all well aware that I am not emotionally available yet (I can't play games with people like that).  But, can't hurt to build friendships and see where they go.  But anyway, my problem more so is finding a woman without some kind of issues or deal-breakers that I have that *spark* with.

I completely get all you're saying there as far as the spending time together.  Great points and thank you for them.  One thing you are incorrect on though is the time together.  Never once did I ask her about spending more time together.  I never needed to.  She was always the one asking me to come over.  She usually couldn't even go out, as the neck issues started about two weeks into us dating.  She was always asking me to come over and would beg and plead for me to spend the night with her.  She never wanted to go to sleep alone.  And if I couldn't be there, she always wanted a shirt of mine for the "scent" to cuddle.  I wasn't the clingy person in that regard, I just fell fast.  With all those types of things she would do, I thought she had too.  I mean literally, after I would leave in the mornings from her place, within 10-15mins, while I am STILL driving home, she would message me "miss you already."  I feel a lot of what she was doing was just love-bombing me.

To add more to that, the reason I felt it was all a complete 180 that day... Two days prior to the breakup, she asked me to come pick her up so she could stay the night at my place.  She was doing all her normal texts about how excited she was, couldn't wait to see me, loves me more than love (she always told me it is "more" than love that she feels), etc.  That next morning when I woke up, I woke up to her staring at me smiling.  She told me "I can't wait until we live together and I get to wake up every morning like this."  That same day (the day before the breakup), I met her kids for the FIRST time.  I asked her all week time and time again if she was ready and she kept telling me yes and that she was excited about it.  So, met her kids, it went great.  Her daughter has selective mutism and was talking in front of me within hours of meeting me.  Her mother and her were absolutely shocked.  They never saw her open up like that so fast in front of an adult male.  Then like I've explained before, while I kept telling her I can leave so she can have time with the kids and they can get a breather from me, she wouldn't let me leave until she was about to go to bed.  Cuddled on the couch for like 2hrs while the kids watched a movie.  I thought it was going great.  That night, the usual.  Messages me 10-15mins after I left "I miss you so so much already!  So glad you got to meet the kids love!" and multiple other sweet things on my way home.  The next morning, the usual "Good morning my love!" message that I woke up to.  Then, about an hour or two after that message, the breakup.  That is what completely blew my mind.  What kind of person introduces you to their kids the day before they break up with you?  And all the sweet messages and doing all the usual things she always did.  The only issue I know we were having near the end is we would bicker at times, mostly because of her ex and issues with the parenting plan.  But, we worked on it and fixed that problem two days prior to the breakup.  I doubt I will ever know what was going through her head.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Love2Love78

[Dis]

I think if she didn't leave, he would've at some point

 

Once the shine wore off 

 

That's what happens when people are more in love with love than an actual person

[Marc878]

In the future stay away from rebounds.

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, Love2Love78 said:

I got you, and thanks for all the feedback. 

As far as sex, it has meaning to me.  Unless I'm with someone I can picture a future with, it's not happening.  So for me, physical intimacy is something that ONLY comes when dating someone I see a potential future with.  That is not something I can change, as that is my values regarding sex.  I literally can't enjoy sex with someone if I feel it's just a one-night stand or there is no future with them.  I know because I've tried a few times in my life and it does nothing for me.

I value the perks that go with a relationship highly.  I value family highly.  My dreams included having a family, raising that family with someone I love, and growing old together with all those memories together.  That dream isn't ever going away, and the older I get, the more of my life goes by alone without a significant other having shared those things with me.  If you were in your 40s and still single, maybe you'd understand yourself.

My mom found the man of her dreams at 65, just two years ago.  And yes, prior to that, she learned how to be happy on her own.  But, she tells me countless times "I never knew I could be this happy!" all the time regarding their relationship.  I feel like some people either delude themselves into thinking they don't care about what a relationship offers, or they are just fine sharing those things with whoever without picturing a future with them (flings, fwb, etc.).  But, I am well aware what a relationship offers that I just can't have without someone else, so being happy on my own doesn't take away knowing I could be *happier* having all I have now, but a significant other to share that with.  If anyone here thinks you can be just as happy with or without someone you love, go ahead and ask anyone happily married or happily in a relationship if they were happier before or after they found that person?

Another thing about my mom.  While she is so happy now that she found him, the one and only thing that saddens her is she tells me "I just wish him and I found each other sooner.  So much of our lives we missed out on, and I don't know how much more time we will have here together before one of us passes away."  Hence, why I would prefer finding my person before I'm in my 60s, all to have a good 10-15yrs with them before our health starts declining. 

It's not like I am in such a rush that I just date anyone and "latch on" or something.  I go on lots of dates where that person doesn't make it past a first date with me because I'm not feeling it.  No sparks, lack of something else, just doesn't happen.  I'm a moderately attractive guy, so as soon as I create a dating profile, I have zero problems finding dates or women.  I already have three lined up for this weekend actually, all well aware that I am not emotionally available yet (I can't play games with people like that).  But, can't hurt to build friendships and see where they go.  But anyway, my problem more so is finding a woman without some kind of issues or deal-breakers that I have that *spark* with.

 

I guess maybe see a psychologist and get to the bottom of why you're only attracted to women with major baggage.  No one's perfect but if you have as many options as you say you do, then this shouldn't be the type of woman that rises to the top of the crop.  If you value family so much then it should be imperative that you get the part of your brain that picks women fixed, so that your future family isn't ruined because you made a poor choice.

Edited March 12, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

All evaluations concluded the same thing - all I have is "situational depression."  The "situation" is them restricting my time with my children for years.  As that is getting resolved, so is my depression.  

Who is restricting time with your kids? Do you mean supervised visitation?

Hopefully you have excellent psychiatrists, physicians and a therapist for ongoing support and treatment.

And hopefully seeing your kids will clear up when the mood disorders clear up.

 

[SaraSays]

I don't see any mean-spirited posts to you. What I see is when posters post something you don't like, you lash out defensively, accusing them of posting in bad faith, and typing out long posts about things that don't address the point being made. We have such a recent example - you're encouraged to spend time alone  by a poster, and you jump to your own defence that you did that in years gone by (not relevant to what's being posted to you, that you might want to consider doing that now).

I perceive you as seeing the world through black-and-white thinking. Everyone's good or bad, everything's extremely great or it's terrible, everyone's either a perfect vision of what you desire or they're nothing to you, you're entirely into someone or their worst enemy, and so on.

Very little of what you post concerns others, when I reflect on it - it's mostly just about you, what you want, what you think, what you perceive to be true, what everyone has done to wrong you, how you were misled because of others, how you were encouraged to do the things you did... I don't see much accountability for your own life, for your kids, for your behaviour, just reviewing your posts here.

You've even attacked posters commenting that it was irresponsible to introduce someone to your kids who you hadn't even known 2 months, and irresponsible for you to meet someone else's kids, let alone to cuddle their mum on the couch in front of them. Your immediate defence was you don't usually do that (not relevant here to the point being made), that this woman encouraged you to do that (not relevant here to the point being made)... It's absent of your responsibility to your kids, and your responsibility to her kids,  as I interpret your words. I haven't seen you reflect on the harm to your own kids, nor to her kids, by what you did, and I wonder why that is, whether you're embarassed, so avoid it (understandable, we all struggle to admit we've hurt others), or just don't see the situations as at all harmful.

I recall recently typing out a post to you mentioning it taking time to get to  know someone, and there being no cognitive way to rush that, and you interpreted that to mean "to discover they're fake", which wasn't anything to do with what I posted, but I think is indicative of your black-and-white thinking (someone's your world or they're the worst thing ever).

[Gaeta]

12 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

Another thing that I guess I wonder about when people encourage going so slow...  say if I only saw someone twice a week for the first two months, or I see them 4-5 times a week those first two months.  I feel like only seeing them twice a week, it's going to take me a lot longer to get to know them, see their true colors, etc.  So yes, the feelings don't come on as fast, but neither does determining if this could be someone you'd want a future with. 

You cannot speed into a healthy relationship and cannot speed getting to know someone. When you do so you head to a relationship *burnout*. Too much too fast always has the same outcome - relationship burnout, love indigestion, suddenly the feelings are gone. To avoid that you have to start a relationship slowly ***to avoid burning it by both ends***. If you want something to last you take your time to date, keep time for yourself away from your someone, do not talk about moving in together unless you've dated 1-2 years. 

Spending every 2nd night with someone does not get you to know someone. What it takes to know someone is to *experience* with them. Going out together, traveling together, going through b'days and holidays together, going through the seasons together, and that cannot be accomplished in 60 days. 

 

 

[Love2Love78]

3 hours ago, SaraSays said:

I don't see any mean-spirited posts to you. What I see is when posters post something you don't like, you lash out defensively, accusing them of posting in bad faith, and typing out long posts about things that don't address the point being made. We have such a recent example - you're encouraged to spend time alone  by a poster, and you jump to your own defence that you did that in years gone by (not relevant to what's being posted to you, that you might want to consider doing that now).

I perceive you as seeing the world through black-and-white thinking. Everyone's good or bad, everything's extremely great or it's terrible, everyone's either a perfect vision of what you desire or they're nothing to you, you're entirely into someone or their worst enemy, and so on.

Very little of what you post concerns others, when I reflect on it - it's mostly just about you, what you want, what you think, what you perceive to be true, what everyone has done to wrong you, how you were misled because of others, how you were encouraged to do the things you did... I don't see much accountability for your own life, for your kids, for your behaviour, just reviewing your posts here.

You've even attacked posters commenting that it was irresponsible to introduce someone to your kids who you hadn't even known 2 months, and irresponsible for you to meet someone else's kids, let alone to cuddle their mum on the couch in front of them. Your immediate defence was you don't usually do that (not relevant here to the point being made), that this woman encouraged you to do that (not relevant here to the point being made)... It's absent of your responsibility to your kids, and your responsibility to her kids,  as I interpret your words. I haven't seen you reflect on the harm to your own kids, nor to her kids, by what you did, and I wonder why that is, whether you're embarassed, so avoid it (understandable, we all struggle to admit we've hurt others), or just don't see the situations as at all harmful.

I recall recently typing out a post to you mentioning it taking time to get to  know someone, and there being no cognitive way to rush that, and you interpreted that to mean "to discover they're fake", which wasn't anything to do with what I posted, but I think is indicative of your black-and-white thinking (someone's your world or they're the worst thing ever).

There are certainly some where people just flat out attack, make incorrect assumptions, and from someone who is already wounded, it is brutal.  I could quote some specifically if you disagree.  And looking around, I'm not the first to cite that some people on here can be excessively critical.  But, that is not the intentions behind getting defensive.

I'm trying to learn here, which is why I'm still around here.  I do really appreciate the feedback.  I'm even taking notes on multiple things.  I am trying to improve myself here.

The reason I appear defensive on some things is because I feel some people wander off onto inapplicable tangents, or accusations that aren't accurate at all.  Then, the information becomes useless.  For example, many talk about all my "issues" I have.  So, I had to clarify that I have had multiple evaluations, all verifying that all I have is "situational depression."  Without clarifying things like that, people go off onto all kinds of incorrect assumptions and tangents, then they start giving information that is not useful at all.  

That actually ties into what you mentioned about the whole meeting the kids and clarifying that it is not something I normally do.  That was not me being defensive. I clarified because there is a huge difference between someone who has introduced 10 different girlfriends to their kids in the last couple years, versus someone who has only introduced two in their lives.  There is a huge difference between a pattern of behavior, versus falling for someone fast and believing things were really solid there.

And as far as not acknowledging the "damage" to the kids, I already have.  I'm just not harping on it, because it's not going to accomplish anything.  Like I already said countless times, the reason I made an exception with introducing this woman to the kids is because at the time, I didn't see anything that could've possibly broken us up.  We even had conversations about things like that multiple times, and how because of how open we both were and easy-going, the only thing that could break us up would be cheating, but neither of us would ever do it, so it wasn't a concern.  So, not sure what you are expecting me to say as far as the kids?  Yea, because I thought there was more here than there was, I introduced the kids, AGAIN admit that was a mistake on my part, and AGAIN acknowledge that it was because I felt at the time, it was the right choice.  Anything else you want to go on about it, because I already get it, it was too soon, I needed to get to know her more.  Already well aware of all that.  Not sure what other kind of acknowledgement you're hoping for out of it, because it certainly isn't helping me to hear the same things over and over.

I'm trying to improve here.  I am learning from the posts.  I am taking notes.  That's the best I can do at this point.

[Love2Love78]

26 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You cannot speed into a healthy relationship and cannot speed getting to know someone. When you do so you head to a relationship *burnout*. Too much too fast always has the same outcome - relationship burnout, love indigestion, suddenly the feelings are gone. To avoid that you have to start a relationship slowly ***to avoid burning it by both ends***. If you want something to last you take your time to date, keep time for yourself away from your someone, do not talk about moving in together unless you've dated 1-2 years. 

Spending every 2nd night with someone does not get you to know someone. What it takes to know someone is to *experience* with them. Going out together, traveling together, going through b'days and holidays together, going through the seasons together, and that cannot be accomplished in 60 days. 

 

 

I see what you're saying.  It's not just about the direct interaction with them, but the time frame helps because you get to experience how they react to other various things throughout their life.  Makes sense.  Thanks for the clarification.

I get it and see what you're saying, as while her and I spent tons of time together and got to know one another better in that regard, my experience with her was limited in what I saw her go through in life.  I only saw a VERY tiny portion of her life experience, and the rest was hearsay from her.  

I told you, my emotional IQ sucks.  These are the things I'm having to learn, and I am making an effort to do so.  Like I said in the previous post, I am taking down plenty of notes on all this and appreciate all the feedback.

[poppyfields]

I don’t think giving the OP a list of behaviors to follow (such as progressing slower or employing any other strategy to achieve a particular outcome) is going to do him much good.  Doing so makes him a sort of “puppet,” and no one learns anything by being a puppet.

What he needs is a change in his entire mindset, how he views himself, others and the world.

OP, I noticed you didn’t acknowledge my earlier post, that’s sad because if you understand the concept it’s quite enlightening and enriching.  So I will try again FWIW.

Below are the main concepts behind the Law of Least Effort.  I hope you won’t dismiss because understanding them and putting them into practice in your own life can render some powerful results.

1. I will practice Acceptance. Today I will accept people, situations, circumstances, and events as they occur. I will know that this moment is as it should be, because the whole universe is as it should be. I will not struggle against the whole universe by struggling against this moment. My acceptance is total and complete. I accept things (and people) as they are this moment, not as I wish they were.

2. Having accepted things as they are, I will take Responsibility for my situation and for all those events I see as problems. I know that taking responsibility means not blaming anyone or anything for my situation (and this includes myself). I also know that every problem is an opportunity in disguise, and this alertness to opportunities allows me to take this moment and transform it into a greater benefit.

3. Today my awareness will remain established in Defenselessness. I will relinquish the need to defend my point of view, and I will feel no need to persuade others to accept my point of view. I will remain open to all points of view and not be rigidly attached to any one of them (including your own).

In short, learn to “let go,” release control, and simply allow things, situations and people to “be.”   

Attempting to control an outcome (which is what you've been doing) is a futile waste of energy, it serves no good purpose, it repels people and pushes them away.  As evidenced by what is currently happening with this woman, the subject of this thread.

Relax, stop fighting nature and learn to be at peace, with yourself, others and the world.

This entire situation has the potential to be a great learning experience for you, if you allow it to be.

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by poppyfields

[Love2Love78]

9 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Who is restricting time with your kids? Do you mean supervised visitation?

Hopefully you have excellent psychiatrists, physicians and a therapist for ongoing support and treatment.

And hopefully seeing your kids will clear up when the mood disorders clear up.

 

It's a long story.  With my boys, I don't have much limitations other than not getting to see them that often.  That's more so a technicality with the courts than anything.  But, things there are easy, so not as much of a concern.

Visitation with my daughter has been supervised, but it was unfounded.  Again a very long story, but all the evaluations and all the psychologists I have ever met all support it is unfounded, never should've happened, and needs to be returned to the original parenting plan.  The matter involved my ex getting an attorney when I couldn't afford one (boy's mother drove me into the ground financially), she knew the judge (grew up in the same town; would even walk into the courthouse with him talking to him; met him twice during marriage at local events in her town), and so I got railroaded.  As soon as I got all the evaluations backing me and had enough money for an attorney, she switched the case to another judge who literally said "wtf is this???" in the courtroom.  He told off my ex's attorney, making it clear how what he did was "disgusting, a blatant abuse of the system by taking advantage of someone without legal representation."  Ever since, it has been on the path to getting the parenting plan back to normal.

So, my daughter's case is already fixed.  We are just determining a time frame for it all.  The boys are next, and that case is going to be easier.

And you have the kids and mood thing reversed.  The mood (depression) is "situational" and triggered by the situations with my kids.  So actually, when the issues with my kids are resolved, the mood disorder (depression) will be too.  Although now that I know it is getting fixed and is in the process, my depression is fairly non-existent anyway.

My issue when it comes to dating isn't a "mood disorder."  It is that I am a very caring, loving person, and I'm not good with making myself NOT care about someone too fast.  The best suggestion I have gotten in here so far that I don't do yet is to spend less time with the person in the beginning.  All the other stuff I tend to do (maintain hobbies, social life outside the relationship, don't neglect myself, etc.).  What I need to fix is not spending so much time so fast with a person, where it makes the attachment grow faster than I have a chance to see them in various life situations.  I feel it is something that can be easily fixed now that I get what I need to do and why.  The info in here has been VERY useful to me, and I greatly appreciate all of it, even if I don't always come off as feeling that way.  I'm just still very raw from the breakup.

[Love2Love78]

Just now, poppyfields said:

I don’t think giving the OP a list of behaviors to follow (such as progressing slower or employing any other strategy to achieve a particular outcome) is going to do him much good.  Doing so makes him a sort of “puppet,” and no one learns anything by being a puppet.

What he needs is a change in his entire mindset, how he views himself, others and the world.

OP, I noticed you didn’t acknowledge my earlier post, that’s sad because if you understand the concept it’s quite enlightening and enriching.  So I will try again FWIW.

Below are the main concepts behind the Law of Least Effort.  I hope you won’t dismiss because understanding them and putting them into practice in your own life can render some powerful results.

1. I will practice Acceptance. Today I will accept people, situations, circumstances, and events as they occur. I will know that this moment is as it should be, because the whole universe is as it should be. I will not struggle against the whole universe by struggling against this moment. My acceptance is total and complete. I accept things (and people) as they are this moment, not as I wish they were.

2. Having accepted things as they are, I will take Responsibility for my situation and for all those events I see as problems. I know that taking responsibility means not blaming anyone or anything for my situation (and this includes myself). I also know that every problem is an opportunity in disguise, and this alertness to opportunities allows me to take this moment and transform it into a greater benefit.

3. Today my awareness will remain established in Defenselessness. I will relinquish the need to defend my point of view, and I will feel no need to persuade others to accept my point of view. I will remain open to all points of view and not be rigidly attached to any one of them (including your own).

In short, learn to “let go,” release control, and simply allow things, situations and people to “be.”   

Attempting to control an outcome (which is what you've been doing) is a futile waste of energy, it serves no good purpose, it repels people and pushes them away.

Relax, stop fighting nature and learn to be at peace, with yourself, others and the world.

Thank you for posting again.  I somehow overlooked your previous post until about an hour ago.  I was actually just about to reply to it after my last post.  So, very funny timing you just reposted.

I did read through your previous post thoroughly, and found it VERY useful.  I appreciate the feedback, completely get what you're saying, and added to my notes based on your feedback there.

I get what you were saying in your previous post as far as giving less.  I get that I can give less than I give now, which will give them more time to give in return.  I have to figure out a balance, where I give them enough to see what it is I have to offer, but not so much where it is overwhelming to them or that they don't appreciate it because of it being too abundant.  I get I need to see them sort of "earn" more of it as time goes on.

I know a part of why I give so much is because that's how I've been all my life.  I love doing for others, and not used to taking.  Just not me.  So, I put most my time into giving and giving, because I don't care if I get much in return.  In the past, when it wasn't as overboard as this one, it usually goes great.  Woman will tell me "no man has ever treated me this good, been this attentive to what I want, etc."  But, I see how if they get too much of it too soon, they will also take it for granted, at least until it's gone.  That would make sense as to why I almost always hear back from women after they break up with me.  But by then, I'm almost always over them.  Doesn't help to hear "sorry I didn't appreciate you more when I had you.  I miss it" after they crushed my heart and walked away.  Thinking by the time I hear back from this one (IF I even do), it will be the same thing.  But, that's ok.  This is just another lesson for me to learn from.

[poppyfields]

32 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

I know a part of why I give so much is because that's how I've been all my life.  I love doing for others, and not used to taking.  Just not me.  So, I put most my time into giving and giving, because I don't care if I get much in return.  

I am curious why you don't care if you get much in return?  Do you not believe you're worthy of being given much, in return for what you do, or otherwise?   This goes to your self-esteem which may be at issue here and a strong desire and need for validation.

I am not suggesting we give to get, but to give and give without caring if you receive back places you at risk for being exploited by others for their own selfish purposes.   

On its face, over-giving it appears unselfish, when in reality, it's actually quite selfish, a means to an end.  The outcome YOU want.  It's a manipulation of sorts.

As my late mom used to say - "we were not placed on this earth to be martyrs, so stop acting like one."

Wise words.

In any event, it's all a journey, an opportunity to learn and grow, and I wish you all the best on that path.

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by poppyfields

[Calmandfocused]

I’m sorry you’ve felt as you’ve been attacked here. That is no ones intention. However a lot of posters here (including myself) do take the “knock some sense into you” approach, especially when posters are not being kind to themselves (or to others) 

I read your opening post again to ensure that I didn’t misread the first time. You have to appreciate that an interpretation of your  opening post would be: 

“How do I get my girlfriend to be what I want, do what I want, and want exactly the same as I want?” 
 

The first conclusion that some people are going to reach is that you are/ were trying to manipulate a vulnerable person. That you were trying to become the centre of her world and encourage her not to pay attention to her own best interests. That’s how I read it and I still do! 
 

I know you’re in pain but you need to help yourself by reflecting on your mistakes here. For starters you keep saying you considered her views and opinions in everything. What you didn’t do was respect how she felt.  

Loving someone Is about letting them BE and not trying to force them to change. 

By the way I think you’re misinterpreting extreme vulnerability and destabilisation as “Intelligence”. It isn’t. Perhaps you need to think about that to take her off this pedestal and help yourself to recover. 
 

It takes time but you will be ok. 
 

Look it sounds like you’re going through a lot where your kids are concerned. Why don’t you focus on getting this sorted, getting stable in this aspect of your life and then think about dating? I think you’ve such a lot on at the moment, your really confused (understandably) and subsequently your not making the best decisions at the moment. 

[Gaeta]

40 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I don’t think giving the OP a list of behaviors to follow (such as progressing slower or employing any other strategy to achieve a particular outcome) is going to do him much good.  Doing so makes him a sort of “puppet,” and no one learns anything by being a puppet.

It's important to give *exemples* of what we mean by: going slower. This is the 7th page of his thread and only now *by giving him exemples* he understand now what we meant by slowing down. Yes I think getting exemples can help someone that seeks to understand and to change his behavior. I find it practical and helpful so I shared it, and OP will decide if it's something he can use or not. 

[SaraSays]

1 hour ago, Love2Love78 said:

I see what you're saying.  It's not just about the direct interaction with them, but the time frame helps because you get to experience how they react to other various things throughout their life. 

Additionally, there is a process called limerence, that lasts about 3 months. It's a psychological state, whereby we are said to be wearing rose-tinted glasses. It's why so many relationships fall apart before or upon reaching 3 months - because the other person in the cold light of day is no longer flawless and perfect,  and neither are we. Only beyond this 3 months mark, do we even begin to scratch the surface of what someone is truly all about.

NB couples break up after 30, 40 and 50 years together, so it's important to note that something is right, til it's 1 day, perhaps, not. The good news is the world's population is said to be 7.9 billion as of March 2021, so there are good chances we'll find good chemistry with others, if 1 doesn't work out.

[Miss Spider]

4 minutes ago, SaraSays said:

Additionally, there is a process called limerence, that lasts about 3 months. It's a psychological state, whereby we are said to be wearing rose-tinted glasses. It's why so many relationships fall apart before or upon reaching 3 months - because the other person in the cold light of day is no longer flawless and perfect,  and neither are we. Only beyond this 3 months mark, do we even begin to scratch the surface of what someone is truly all about.

NB couples break up after 30, 40 and 50 years together, so it's important to note that something is right, til it's 1 day, perhaps, not. The good news is the world's population is said to be 7.9 billion as of March 2021, so there are good chances we'll find good chemistry with others, if 1 doesn't work out.

But what’s the point of going beyond that? If you aren’t as happy/having as much with the person as you could be with someone else in else in limerence, what causes you to stay 

[Gaeta]

50 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

But what’s the point of going beyond that? If you aren’t as happy/having as much with the person as you could be with someone else in else in limerence, what causes you to stay 

The question wasn't for me but I'll punch in. 

Why do you assume that after the limerence phase the relationship isn't as happy? After that phase you can realise you're dating someone with flaws you cannot deal with  but you can also discover you're dating an incredible human being. It goes both ways. 

 

[Versacehottie]

Here's what I would wonder about your situational depression, OP?  Is wondering if it is worth it to talk to your (new) therapist about this--thinking that if you have situational depression, which is believable due to your circumstances, the aftereffect is still effectively just depression (low grade or whichever you were diagnosed as)... that depression and resulting anxiety will still color pretty much everything you do.  And/or you will see life through the lens, let's say. 

So while the initial cause of why it started might be specific to pinpoint like you said, I don't think you should discount that it's affecting your life in total and your belief mindset and your approaches to things overall now.  Think it's worth checking out on your end.  I would say some of the things you wrote on this thread are hallmarks of both depression and anxiety (especially anxiety).  Not saying this to put you down or analyze you in way that you don't feel is correct about you. But it does make sense that with relationships that you deem super important (like a romantic one) and that you've suffered a lot to get to that point that it would bring out some of those thinking patterns and the need to lock someone down, control the situation, overthink it, dive in despite tons of red flags, all that.  It's like not emotionally regulated.   I would even say that believing you suffered a lot (can't remember the words you've used exactly and no way in hell that i'm going back through the posts lol!) and "deserve" something that's actually not quite good for you or hasn't been proven that it will be (ie this woman, exposing your kids to her, jumping fully in quickly), is still sort of seeing things/your life through a negative sort of lens.  all or nothing thinking, etc etc.  I would encourage you to check that out.  Hopefully I'm explaining it well enough

 

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

But what’s the point of going beyond that? If you aren’t as happy/having as much with the person as you could be with someone else in else in limerence, what causes you to stay 

This is just my own definition based on my experiences, but even though limerence or that “falling in love” feeling may end, when the connection is strong it gets replaced with an even deeper connection and bond, a genuine “caring” about each other, stability, and a depth of feeling and emotion that transcends limerence, which may feel exhilarating and exciting but is restless and fleeting.  Sexual intimacy can also become deeper, more emotional and meaningful. 

It all depends on what someone wants.  Some people prefer that "high," the roller coaster of emotions and excitement but as the connection deepens, the vulnerability that goes along with can be "scary" for some people, which might result in them becoming turned off, and bailing.  And seeking others who can provide that high, that falling in love feeling or as it's referred to, limerence.  It's emotionally safer than allowing another human being into heart, your soul, your "core" where you risk being exposed and getting hurt if the relationship fails.

It can become a never-ending cycle for some people, seeking that high, that excitement.

If that sort of life makes them happy, more power to 'em, personally I would find it exhausting and quite unfulfilling. 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

I see. Thanks, you guys, for the insight.  not supposed to be exciting... but it’s more of a familiar, warm feeling... yes I know what you mean exactly. I guess to me it can kind of be analogized by the difference between staying at home vs going  out an exploring. Staying home is cozy, safe, can be fun in a familiar way... but going out on an adventure is exciting, engaging, and you learn new things and can have a lot more fun. Jmo . Also I think  you can get really hurt with limerence too , because of stories I hear here and also some of my own experience. Because you do become attached to the people that you’ve dated.  When I broke up with my ex bf, he took it very well, but we both hurt a lot from it. We were compatible in a lot of ways, and I loved him in a way , strongly, but the spark was just not there anymore for me. The romantic, exciting feelings just not there and when I met an attractive stranger , we met eyes, the spark *was* there. So I felt it was time to end it. But it hurt very, very bad. With OP also, limerence has hurt him a lot. His feelings for this lady seem very strong even though it was a mere two months. He was convinced that they were soulmates.Of course, it can be argued it would be worse if they had dated even longer, but then those feelings might have died down also . He should definitely try to lower expectations and take it more slowly in the future. I feel like this lesson has been taught to him many times, so it’s a matter of application 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

I guess to me  can kind of be analogized by the difference between staying at home vs going  out an exploring. Staying home is cozy, safe, can be fun in a familiar way... but going out on an adventure is exciting, engaging, and you learn new things and can have a lot more fun. Jmo . 

I am not sure I would classify a loving committed LTR as cozy and safe, not always anyway.  A close intimate relationship that transcends limerence can be quite exciting, learning new things about each other, having different adventures together.

It depends on the couple, their natures and and how they choose to interact with each other and define their relationship for themselves.

There is a great saying "one can have the 'same' experience different people, or 'different' experiences with the same person."

I believe in the latter - having different experiences and adventures with the same person.  Learning, growing and evolving, together as a couple and individually.

No relationship is "safe" as far as I'm concerned.

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by poppyfields