Wanting to Progress Faster Than Girlfriend. How to Keep From Being Hurt?

[BaileyB]

33 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

 At least half the people are looking for ways to criticize me, as if I'm not in pain enough already and realized I screwed up already. 

It’s not so much that you screwed up, it’s that the timing isn’t right. She has some pretty important issues that she needs to deal with and that needs to be her focus right now. So sure, hindsight is 20/20 and if we could each go back and do things differently in our lives, I’m sure we would... but, it didn’t really matter what you did here. It wasn’t going to work because the timing is not right for her. It’s like I told you above - my partner said to me “had we stayed together back then... I don’t think we would be together today.” She could be the most wonderful person, and there could be the potential for a great relationship - but if the timing is not good, sadly - that is the only thing that really matters...

Edited March 9, 2021 by BaileyB

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Love2Love78 said:

So yes, because she is still getting settled into a new routine with the kids, huge red flag.  Never should have dated her.  I mean unless she has a $100k+ income, her own home, absolutely no baggage, non-smoker, non-drinker, top of her academic class, and perfect body, they're a no-go, right? 

My comment wasn't about you or your choices here.   Rather, it was about her choice to be dating when not only has she not processed previous trauma, but hadn't even progressed to have the basics of her life together in respect to being a parent.  Yes, this takes time and I'm glad she's making progress.   But I would suggest that this relationship is very much a casualty of her leaping into something which she wasn't able to sustain and couldn't sustain .  

This was classic rebound behaviour on her part.  I suspect therapy will unravel that she unconsciously used you to fill a gap in her life.   It's good that she's recognised that she needs help and  is addressing it....shame that you got caught up in it all. 

I've gotta say though, given all this mess going on in her life, I'm very surprised that your therapist said that this was looking solid.  I think you need a new therapist.

 

[Love2Love78]

13 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

To be very honest, this woman doesn’t know if she is coming or going right now. She is a total mess!! And, I say that with the utmost respect - she should be a mess! She has just left a long term, abusive marriage, she is going through a divorce (and it sounds contentious if he stayed in the house and essentially took primary custody of the children), and she is living with her mother! 

The last thing this woman needs right now is a boyfriend!!

I’m not saying this to be judgmental, but I work do with children who have mental health issues and developmental deal... she has a young child who is a selective mute who was raised in an abusive home and in now currently living with her father and seeing her mother once a week. The chances are high that the child has experienced some trauma and has some attachment issues that may be contributing to the anxiety and mutism that she is experiencing. This woman needs to find a way to share custody and care for her children before she finds herself another relationship.

She needs to get her life together and again - the kindest thing you can do for her is to give her the time and space to do it. You can not be her white knight and solve all her problems. You can not love her through this. She needs to learn to stand on her own and she needs to deal with her husband, her children, and her health. 

You can’t be her friend because you clearly want more from the woman. And not to beat a dead horse, you both have some pretty major issues with boundaries. 

Just, give her time. As they say, if you love something - set it free. If it comes back to you, it is meant to be yours. The kindest, most selfless, and most loving thing you could do for this woman is to let her be... give her a break from all this emotional drama (she has more than enough to deal with resulting from her marriage and her pending divorce). Just let her be...

Thanks for the feedback, and I know you are right.  It just really sucks.

I wasn't expecting to be her white knight and I know that would build an unhealthy relationship.  I figured my life isn't perfect, hers is obviously worse, but we could gradually build a life together that is better.  I figured if her and I could rebuild together and get through all this, we could make it through anything.  Clearly, it wasn't the case.

I mean with her income and expenses, she isn't getting out of her mom's house until she either has a roommate (which would be questionable of course considering she has kids), or someone she has been with long enough that she is comfortable moving in with.  So, if she is single for another two years, chances are, she will most likely still be living with her mom (or possibly a roommate).  She just doesn't have the income to do it on her own.  With that in mind, based on a lot of people's opinions here, she should be single for the rest of her life since she is living with her mom and her circumstances are less than ideal.  I whole-heartedly disagree.  I mean of course I see now she isn't ready now, but there is no reason she shouldn't be able to date just because she can't afford anything beyond her mother's house.

As far as the neck issues and job related stress from missing work, that happened after her and I got together.  Two weeks after actually.  She ended up going to the hospital that weekend, they misdiagnosed her three times that weekend, then she eventually went to a specialist a week later who *thinks* they know what it is.  He has given her two rounds of shots, the first helped for two days, the second (more invasive - injected directly into the spine) lasted about three days.  The next step is burning the nerve endings.  After that, if that doesn't fix it, she will have to get surgery.  So, based on her options and the doctor's availability, it should be fixed within the next month, two at absolute maximum.  

Another of my issues here though was that if you are in a solid relationship, you don't just break up because life isn't ideal.  Relationships have their ups and downs, and when life is rough for one of you, the other supports you.  But, I get there are some things here she needs to deal with on her own, particularly her issues with her ex.  You can't  have a healthy relationship with someone new when your prior ex still has control over you.  I tried to tell her this multiple times, and while I told her she has to be the one to stand up for herself and I couldn't do that for her, I supported her 100% all through it.  Regardless, she never did stand up for herself with him, and even to the end, he continued taking advantage of her.

Another issue with that too though is she can't afford an attorney.  So, the current mediation screws her, her current circumstances suck, but she has no way to fight it.  I offered to help do that as a way to "start building our family together," but she has a very hard time accepting help from others.  Even her best friend offered to help, but she refused her money too.  I told her it would only be temporary, and the money she would get back from having an attorney would well more than outweigh the cost.  But, she didn't want to.  I believe the biggest part wasn't even the money - it was the fear of standing up against her ex like that.  So yea, the more time went on, the more I realized she had serious stuff to work on.  But, I thought I loved her so much by that point that I stayed with her and was just trying to be patient with those things.

But anyway, another issue I have with some of the statement here... based on some people's reasoning, if we were together for say five years and things get rough for her (issues with work, neck issues recur, ex causes drama), according to a lot of people on here, it seems their advice would be to leave her because her life is hard and she has things to deal with.  Again, I don't agree with that at all.  If a relationship can't survive rough waters, it's not worth it imo.  I'm sorry it seems so many people nowadays have a throwaway attitude about relationships these days.  That's not me.  I leave a person if they themselves have things I can't deal with, like abusive behaviors, selfishness, inconsideration, unfaithfulness, etc., not because their life has gotten hard.

But again, I completely get now that she is in no place for a relationship, and that no matter what she says or does, I need to at least do the 30 day no contact.

[Love2Love78]

16 minutes ago, basil67 said:

My comment wasn't about you or your choices here.   Rather, it was about her choice to be dating when not only has she not processed previous trauma, but hadn't even progressed to have the basics of her life together in respect to being a parent.  Yes, this takes time and I'm glad she's making progress.   But I would suggest that this relationship is very much a casualty of her leaping into something which she wasn't able to sustain and couldn't sustain .  

This was classic rebound behaviour on her part.  I suspect therapy will unravel that she unconsciously used you to fill a gap in her life.   It's good that she's recognised that she needs help and  is addressing it....shame that you got caught up in it all. 

I've gotta say though, given all this mess going on in her life, I'm very surprised that your therapist said that this was looking solid.  I think you need a new therapist.

 

Yea, my therapist doesn't always seem to be as straight-forward with me as I'd like them to be.

I think she trusts my judgement too much to be honest.  I mean in the last year and half with her, I have not once rushed into things this fast.  So, she figured if I was doing it, it was for good reason.  And she also based her opinion on the fact that I *thought* our communication was solid.  I mean her and I communicated about EVERYTHING.  We are both open books, intelligent, easy going, and overall, with how we were, I thought our communication was so solid that there was no way we could break up.  I mean we even discussed our deal-breakers and what could possibly cause us to fall apart.  Neither of us was able to come up with anything we could possibly picture the other person doing that would cause a breakup.  Apparently, she wasn't creative enough in that regard.

My therapist is good, and does have 25+yrs under her belt, specializing in trauma specifically.  She did encourage me to keep an eye out for red flags and any potential issues, but up until the last week, I didn't see any.  So, I can't blame her nearly as much as myself for not being observant enough and not being objective enough.  I was too enmeshed in the pseudo-love I thought I was feeling to see the reality on her side of things.  I get that now, as the more I step away from it, the more I realize why she needs this time to work on herself.

[BaileyB]

4 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

based on some people's reasoning, if we were together for say five years and things get rough for her (issues with work, neck issues recur, ex causes drama), according to a lot of people on here, it seems their advice would be to leave her because her life is hard and she has things to deal with.  Again, I don't agree with that at all.  If a relationship can't survive rough waters, it's not worth it imo.  I'm sorry it seems so many people nowadays have a throwaway attitude about relationships these days.  That's not me.

That’s definitely not me either... but, I think you have the cart before the horse here. You have known the woman for two months. At this stage, your best course of action is to leave her be and let her deal with her previous relationship, her children, her finances, etc... because she is not in the place to be a healthy partner for you. I’m sure she’s a lovely woman, but she’s there right now.

Five years down the road, you are married and she has a health crisis, or she looses her job, or her child has a serious issue - yes, you are in it together. But, it’s because you are in a long term committed relationship that you stand by her side. One would assume, in that circumstance, that you have come together as two healthy and independent people to form a healthy relationship - then, you take on the world!

[Love2Love78]

31 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

It’s not so much that you screwed up, it’s that the timing isn’t right. She has some pretty important issues that she needs to deal with and that needs to be her focus right now. So sure, hindsight is 20/20 and if we could each go back and do things differently in our lives, I’m sure we would... but, it didn’t really matter what you did here. It wasn’t going to work because the timing is not right for her. It’s like I told you above - my partner said to me “had we stayed together back then... I don’t think we would be together today.” She could be the most wonderful person, and there could be the potential for a great relationship - but if the timing is not good, sadly - that is the only thing that really matters...

Yea, it's just that *IF* her and I were to ever get together later on in the future again, I don't see how I could possibly not have concerns that as soon as her life ever gets hard, she is going to leave me again.  I don't see how I'd be able to have any security with her after she did this.  I mean maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe things could unfold later on in a way that would help me see why she needed this time on her own.  

But, I know more likely than not, we won't ever end up back together.  My best guess will be once she heals, she will gradually start dating again casually.  She would be wary of jumping back into things with me, because she would probably be concerned it would move fast again.  So then, she dates others, realizes most men don't do even 1/8th of the things I used to do for her, and she will miss those things.  So, after multiple men lie to her, use her, manipulate her, don't show enough interest, or otherwise just don't compare to what her and I had, then I just *might* get a message from her.  But by then, I'll be the guy that she eventually resorted to because she finally realized how rare this really was, and couldn't find better, so then "guess I'll go back to him."  

When I would come to realize it took her dating multiple other people, sleeping with them, trying to build things with them, to realize how special what we had together was, I don't see how I could move past that.  I had another ex try to do that to me once.  She lacked much dating experience, and so she didn't realize most men aren't nearly as giving as me.  After about six months of dating and about 20 negative dating experiences, she FINALLY realized what she gave up.  But, as soon as I found out that's what it took for her to realize what she had with me, I had zero interest.  I'm not a last resort.  I may not have the greatest self-esteem, but I certainly know I deserve better than that.

I don't see how I could make an exception and not care.  That would just hurt so much that I know it would be near impossible for me to get involved with them again without thinking of all the men they dated, kissed, had sex with, etc., in between when they left me.

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

She did encourage me to keep an eye out for red flags and any potential issues, but up until the last week, I didn't see any. 

I say this with kindness, I hope you know that... this woman is waving so many red flags, it looks like a parade is coming down the street. 

Through no fault of her own, it was just way too early for her to be in a serious relationship and introducing her children to another man. 

I hope you see this now. As basil said, if your therapist didn’t see all these things as red flags - you may need to find a new therapist. 

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, Love2Love78 said:

Yea, it's just that *IF* her and I were to ever get together later on in the future again, I don't see how I could possibly not have concerns that as soon as her life ever gets hard, she is going to leave me again.  I don't see how I'd be able to have any security with her after she did this. 

Good point. There is no guarantee that she wouldn’t. 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, Love2Love78 said:

Yea, it's just that *IF* her and I were to ever get together later on in the future again, I don't see how I could possibly not have concerns that as soon as her life ever gets hard, she is going to leave me again.  I don't see how I'd be able to have any security with her after she did this.  I mean maybe I'm wrong.  

My best guess will be once she heals, she will gradually start dating again casually.  She would be wary of jumping back into things with me, because she would probably be concerned it would move fast again.  So then, she dates others, realizes most men don't do even 1/8th of the things I used to do for her, and she will miss those things.  So, after multiple men lie to her, use her, manipulate her, don't show enough interest, or otherwise just don't compare to what her and I had, then I just *might* get a message from her.  But by then, I'll be the guy that she eventually resorted to because she finally realized how rare this really was, and couldn't find better, so then "guess I'll go back to him."  

 

1st paragraph. See, if you reconnect later in a year to 2 years both of you won't be the same people. She will have solved her multiple issues,  she'll be back at work or who knows maybe she'll go back to school and completely change her life around. You will also be a different man, you'll have taken your distance, you'll benefit from a new therapist, you'll free yourself from this emotional dependency that renders your dating life difficult. If you reconnect you will have to properly date each other again, slowly. You won't jump back in an instant relationship. You will date like normally people do, you slowly get to know each other & slowly build trust.

2nd paragrah. So if she starts dating and end up meeting players and liars? She actually may need to go through that phase to figure out who she is and what she wants. After I got out of my 15 year marriage OMG I dated like there was no tomorrow! It was a right of passage I needed to go through and it shaped me in the woman I am today. She will experience what she needs to experience to grow. 

If she comes back then cross that bridge then. You may be happy in a different relationship then and you won't even reply to her message. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Gaeta

[CollinW]

5 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

Yea, it's just that *IF* her and I were to ever get together later on in the future again, I don't see how I could possibly not have concerns that as soon as her life ever gets hard, she is going to leave me again.  

This is a fair question, but you need to realize that what she's going through is a lot more than her life simply getting hard. 

[ExpatInItaly]

7 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

  Another of my issues here though was that if you are in a solid relationship, you don't just break up because life isn't ideal.  

That's just it,, though - this wasn't a solid relationship. 

At only 60 days of dating, you're nowhere near solid'-relationship territory. You're in the "getting to know you" phase. Don't confuse intensity with true love. Nothing can replace ample time as a couple, when it comes to determing how strong a relationship is (or isn't) 

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but how long had she been separated from her husband when she met you?

[NYAG]

12 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

One thing I will say though, I feel a lot of people have been failing to take into consideration she does exhibit some traits of a battered woman, including self-esteem issues (which I feel are a large part of why she is doing what she is doing). 

 

I'm sorry. I had to reread that several times. Is she a battered woman or do you think in your eyes she 'displays the traits of one'?

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately a lot of break-ups use the "it's me not you" exit strategy.

In this case after briefly dating, she decided she wasn't ready for all this, especially at that accelerated too much too soon pace.

Sadly you're stuck in the "what if" stage. The "what could have been" type of thing.

Talk to your therapist about that.

Try to uncover how much of this is about your own divorce and custody drama.

...And how much of this acceleration and clinging and remorse are actually more about your past than this recent situation .

[Love2Love78]

6 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

That's just it,, though - this wasn't a solid relationship. 

At only 60 days of dating, you're nowhere near solid'-relationship territory. You're in the "getting to know you" phase. Don't confuse intensity with true love. Nothing can replace ample time as a couple, when it comes to determing how strong a relationship is (or isn't) 

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but how long had she been separated from her husband when she met you?

Physical separation, about 8mos.  That is when she actually left the house they were living in together.  She ended things 1-2mos before that, had been miserable since about a year into the marriage, but stayed for a number of circumstances (that's a whole long story in and of itself).  

I already know, yes, 8mos being away from her abuser wasn't nearly enough time to recover, especially where there was continued interaction between them because of the kids.  I was wary of that in the beginning, but not for all the right reasons.  At first, my priority was to make sure she was 100% over him.  She was the one who wanted the divorce, she couldn't stand him, was miserable for years, so I got a solid yes on that one (but in hindsight, that's just what she told me, so who knows for sure).

So, I made sure she was over him and that those ties were completely done, but I did not think to check that there might still be emotional issues she had to resolve.  At the time, I didn't know how abusive the relationship was and how damaged she was as a result.  So yea, I overlooked a lot that she didn't show initially.  I did see some minor insecurity signs, but I didn't see that as a reason to not date her.

[Love2Love78]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately a lot of break-ups use the "it's me not you" exit strategy.

In this case after briefly dating, she decided she wasn't ready for all this, especially at that accelerated too much too soon pace.

Sadly you're stuck in the "what if" stage. The "what could have been" type of thing.

Talk to your therapist about that.

Try to uncover how much of this is about your own divorce and custody drama.

...And how much of this acceleration and clinging and remorse are actually more about your past than this recent situation .

I will be next time I chat with my therapist.  Very little was about my past.  Again, I can't reiterate enough, this is NOT how I typically am as far as how fast I let things move here. I believe that is a large part of why I got minimal opposition from my therapist.  She knew this wasn't typical me, and from what I explained to her from behind my rose-colored glasses, everything looked great.  I don't feel she was so much to blame as I was giving her my biased perspective on it.

In hindsight, I guess she did love bomb me.  Either that, or she was in love with the thought of love and directed it towards me.  Either way, I saw far more here than there actually was.  

And I only think of the "what if" at this point because of the stuff she said to our mutual friend about how she doesn't want to lose me, and I realized what she said about her truly not wanting this to be over, but knowing it has to be, was true.  That and the fact that I *thought* we had so much chemistry together that I never felt before with anyone in my past.

As far as the acceleration, I have been love-bombed a few times in the past.  I think I started getting used to that, to the point where if things DIDN'T move fast, I felt like something was wrong.  Like either the person wasn't that into me, still exploring other options, etc.  I know it's a mindset that I need to change, and I did try to pace myself as best as I could.  I was just so anxious to start a future with this woman because I truly felt she was "the one," and at my mid 40s I've been searching for so long that I let myself get carried away.  I saw something here that wasn't real.

[Gaeta]

1 minute ago, Love2Love78 said:

I will be next time I chat with my therapist.  Very little was about my past.  Again, I can't reiterate enough, this is NOT how I typically am as far as how fast I let things move here. I believe that is a large part of why I got minimal opposition from my therapist.  She knew this wasn't typical me, and from what I explained to her from behind my rose-colored glasses, everything looked great.  I don't feel she was so much to blame as I was giving her my biased perspective on it.

I encourage you to find another therapist. I remember being in a therapist office with my ex-husband, he confined in her he had fantasies of cutting me up in pieces with a knife, believe it or not she sent us back home together and our homework was to 'talk' for 20 minutes after dinner. Some therapist will do more damage than good and I think your therapist is incompetent. 

Any therapist worthy of that name would have brought you to put things back in perspective that this is a 60 days relationship. You may be in need of a life coach instead of a therapist. 

[Versacehottie]

I think that with a few of your most recent posts, OP, that part of the reason you are spinning is you are speculating all the "what ifs".  The what ifs as they relate to the past, different turns of strategy in the past and all the what ifs for the possible events in the future.  This will absolutely make you spin out and cause anxiety.  The best thing you can do for yourself is focus on the present and the reality.  Accept the reality, which is that you are broken up. Try not to go back over and over what you could have done differently, if this was this way and that was that way, blah blah.  All of those are sort of an attempt to keep yourself still IN the relationship and keep you stuck and unhappy and recreating bad patterns. 

I almost never do this but I quickly looked at some of your past posting history (sorry, still not buying the two different screen name kerfuffle so was curious), and at a quick glance notice in a forum that already might indicate that you were playing with fire (affairs/other man) that you had another relationship that you fell super hard as well, which I think just ended RIGHT before this one and in that thread you mentioned that you ALWAYS end up unhappy or backstabbed etc.  Forgive me on the wording and being perfectly word for word on what you said, it was  the gist of things. I think when I read that my takeaway is that you aren't fully getting the security within yourself and keep looking for these relationships to "FILL YOU UP".  I thought it was interesting that the one previous to this one was another relationship that was over-the-top burn hot intensity and then went up in flames.  I think there's an element there that you're attracted to that dynamic and not healthy situations and feel like if you are surmounting the impossible, you must have some fated love.  (even though to healthy relationship people, this would have red flags all over it, as well as the previous one).   Also not taking enough time between them, you're not really healing and just looking to "replace". There has to be some of that going on (not to mention, the way you've been telling us has been different, ie that you've dated a lot and this is the first one you've felt like that about in 3 years blah, blah).  Makes one wonder again why you hide the truth when you are looking for helpful feedback.  On some level, you've got to know what you are doing in embarrassing--not only when it crashes and burns but upon embarking, throughout, with your own behavior throughout.  I think that's why you hide some of those details.

About your therapist, you said you wish she was more forthcoming with you.  I feel like you think her purpose is to guide you to make these poor choice relationships be successful.  It's not.  If you choose a bad partner for yourself, a bad situational thing, your therapist getting you better mentally would have the effect of turning you away from unhealthy, unsustainable situations that aren't good for you.  Also their focus isn't to fix external situations and tell you what you should do like some magic formula.  Their focus is going to be helping you with your self-esteem, security issues, all that to try to make you whole so hopefully out in the real world you will make better choices and have better coping and interpersonal skills.  I agree with Gaeta that if you want guidance on how to manage your dating decisions, you need a LIFE coach so that they will give you specific guidance.  BTW, though, I think the end results they can give you will be limited if you don't work on your internal stuff with a therapist.  I think being that you are in this state and having continued in the way you have, it's time to check out new therapists for a better match for you.  I think you should do that before engaging a life coach (and maybe you won't even find one of those necessary).  Still you need to keep in mind that the majority of reputable therapists won't tell you what to do to get an end result with an external situation, like how to get this person to love you. Their focus is going to have you examine yourself, your choices, practice coping and interpersonal skills.  They might use "your situation" as the example since you are unable to cope without thinking about it and it's YOUR focus but it is just a tool to find the answers and solutions and how to get to solutions on your own.  Ok, good luck

[Love2Love78]

3 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

I think that with a few of your most recent posts, OP, that part of the reason you are spinning is you are speculating all the "what ifs".  The what ifs as they relate to the past, different turns of strategy in the past and all the what ifs for the possible events in the future.  This will absolutely make you spin out and cause anxiety.  The best thing you can do for yourself is focus on the present and the reality.  Accept the reality, which is that you are broken up. Try not to go back over and over what you could have done differently, if this was this way and that was that way, blah blah.  All of those are sort of an attempt to keep yourself still IN the relationship and keep you stuck and unhappy and recreating bad patterns. 

I almost never do this but I quickly looked at some of your past posting history (sorry, still not buying the two different screen name kerfuffle so was curious), and at a quick glance notice in a forum that already might indicate that you were playing with fire (affairs/other man) that you had another relationship that you fell super hard as well, which I think just ended RIGHT before this one and in that thread you mentioned that you ALWAYS end up unhappy or backstabbed etc.  Forgive me on the wording and being perfectly word for word on what you said, it was  the gist of things. I think when I read that my takeaway is that you aren't fully getting the security within yourself and keep looking for these relationships to "FILL YOU UP".  I thought it was interesting that the one previous to this one was another relationship that was over-the-top burn hot intensity and then went up in flames.  I think there's an element there that you're attracted to that dynamic and not healthy situations and feel like if you are surmounting the impossible, you must have some fated love.  (even though to healthy relationship people, this would have red flags all over it, as well as the previous one).   Also not taking enough time between them, you're not really healing and just looking to "replace". There has to be some of that going on (not to mention, the way you've been telling us has been different, ie that you've dated a lot and this is the first one you've felt like that about in 3 years blah, blah).  Makes one wonder again why you hide the truth when you are looking for helpful feedback.  On some level, you've got to know what you are doing in embarrassing--not only when it crashes and burns but upon embarking, throughout, with your own behavior throughout.  I think that's why you hide some of those details.

About your therapist, you said you wish she was more forthcoming with you.  I feel like you think her purpose is to guide you to make these poor choice relationships be successful.  It's not.  If you choose a bad partner for yourself, a bad situational thing, your therapist getting you better mentally would have the effect of turning you away from unhealthy, unsustainable situations that aren't good for you.  Also their focus isn't to fix external situations and tell you what you should do like some magic formula.  Their focus is going to be helping you with your self-esteem, security issues, all that to try to make you whole so hopefully out in the real world you will make better choices and have better coping and interpersonal skills.  I agree with Gaeta that if you want guidance on how to manage your dating decisions, you need a LIFE coach so that they will give you specific guidance.  BTW, though, I think the end results they can give you will be limited if you don't work on your internal stuff with a therapist.  I think being that you are in this state and having continued in the way you have, it's time to check out new therapists for a better match for you.  I think you should do that before engaging a life coach (and maybe you won't even find one of those necessary).  Still you need to keep in mind that the majority of reputable therapists won't tell you what to do to get an end result with an external situation, like how to get this person to love you. Their focus is going to have you examine yourself, your choices, practice coping and interpersonal skills.  They might use "your situation" as the example since you are unable to cope without thinking about it and it's YOUR focus but it is just a tool to find the answers and solutions and how to get to solutions on your own.  Ok, good luck

Thank you for all the feedback.  I am sure that based on prior posts, it would look like I have a pattern here.  To an extent, I do. 

In actuality though, last year, I only dated two women.  One in the beginning of the year that lasted two months, and then near the end of the year, which lasted about three months (at least as far as the dating part of it, but had been talking regularly for about a year by that point).  

The one in the beginning of the year was a joke.  She was a co-worker who was a covert narcissist.  She love bombed me, I picked up on it fairly early on, wasn't sure whether it was trust issues on her part or if she was actually a narcissist.  Soon as I realized she was a narc, I ran.  Nothing progressed there as far as the kids or anything like I did here, even though it lasted just as long.

The second one later on in the year, yes, that was one that seemed decent.  The reason being was both her and I had known each other for years and had been through VERY similar circumstances.  I was naive in thinking since we were both screwed over in the past and could relate to one another (particularly because we knew each other's exes), that surely, she wouldn't screw me over like that too.  I was again love-bombed by her.  I feel for it, but I certainly never lived with her, never met her kids, she never met mine, etc.  I thought the feelings were strong, but only because of the combo of knowing each other for so long and how well she love-bombed me.  But, as soon as I saw through her lies, I walked on that as well.

So, this one was the only exception as far as meeting the kids and talking of a future together.  However, the only two experiences I had last year, I was love-bombed both times.  I know I have a VERY bad picker, and my counselor has made me well aware of that as well.  

My self-esteem issues actually aren't that bad at all.  That's not what this is about.  Actually, for the most part, I'm fairly confident in myself.  My issues don't stem from self-esteem, but more so that when I see red flags, I have a bad habit of overlooking them because I want to see the best in people.  I give them a chance, just in case the red flag isn't quite what I believe it is.  I do keep them in the back of my head, but I let far more go than I should.  I do wait a bit because I second-guess.  Like what if I am wrong about this "red flag" and it is something else?  What if I make a mistake and break up with someone and it turns out I was wrong.  So, I try to find some solid evidence to back my concerns.  As soon as I do, then I do leave immediately at that point.

Another reason I get all excited is because of how picky I am.  I tend to only rarely come across women that even hold my interest past a first date because of my criteria and I need a "spark" or I lose interest.  So, when one of those women occasionally comes along, I get all excited.  Overexcited, and I know this.  Since others aren't usually as picky, they don't have the same level of excitement.  They are just picking one of 500+ men that just messaged them in the last 24hrs.  

I get that I have to try to pace myself more and not get so excited.  It's difficult though.  I do try to distract myself with other hobbies, interests, friends, etc.  But, when I have a strong interest in someone, I have a VERY hard time getting them out of my head.  Mainly because in my mind, love trumps all, so above and beyond anything else, I want to find my person.  I mean life is slipping through my fingers, and so much of it has already come and gone without me finding them.  So, between the disheartening experience of failed relationships combined with the excitement of a potential "one," I have a hard time NOT being excited.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Love2Love78

[Love2Love78]

Ok, before I reply to any more responses here, I wanted to explain a little more why I fell so fast and hard for this woman.  Hopefully, this will make a little more sense.

Like I said, I know I am picky.  I am very unique, and I search for unique people.  Vanilla bores me, and unless a person has a fairly high IQ, they will end up boring me as well.  This happened a few times in the past, where women couldn't keep up and I'd just lose interest.

With that said, I have a LONG list of things I would like to find in someone.  Some are requirements, some are added bonuses.  But for brevity here, I'm just going to put the list down to show you why I was so amazed with this woman.

To date, the most I ever found was someone that had maybe like half the traits I had on the list.  This woman not only had ALL the traits on my list, but she even had some traits that in hindsight, I realized I wanted as well that weren't even on there.

So with that said, here is a list of the things I either need or like to see, ALL of which was applicable to her:

• Highly Intelligent
• Very affectionate (touch is my top love language, so this is important)
• Extremely open-minded but not to the point of credulity (ex. not religious, but open-minded about spirituality, etc.)
• Understanding and non-judgmental
• Very self-aware and analytical (demonstrated this on multiple occasions, the biggest being when she realized the work she needs to do on herself and needs to be alone to do it)
• Similar love-languages (ours were identical in order - touch at top of list, second for both of us was quality time, third was acts of service, bottom of both our list was gifts ((both non-materialistic))
• Similar taste in decor (Victorian/Gothic, dark taste)
• Similar taste in music (dubstep and metal, but overall eclectic)
• Horror fan (she even went to various cons and other events like me, like Spooky Empire)
• Easy-going and laid back (non-argumentative)
• Enjoys intellectual conversations (outgoing introverts ideally, which she was)
• Understands and/or appreciates that I ask LOTS of questions to get to know the person (most people like it because they know it shows I'm interested, but the liars or people trying to hide things get irritated with it fairly quickly, as they have a hard time keeping up with all the lies they need to feed me as a result)
• Fairly in shape and extremely attractive to me (I was a trainer for years, so this is a bonus)
• Set high standards for themselves (she was the same as me - very self-critical, which gave her a tendency to over-achieve on most things)
• Love kids (she was a great mother and great with my kids)
• Kind-hearted (obviously with putting others ahead of herself, she did this a little too much)
• Respect for their body (don't just sleep around, which she didn't at all)
• Sex has meaning to them (not interested in casual sex, one-night stands, sex based primarily on physical attraction, etc.)
• Non-materialistic (this is why she was willing to give up everything in the divorce - the material things didn't matter to her at all)
• Forgiving; doesn't hold grudges (even after all her ex did to her, she still didn't hold a grudge against him)
• Amazing in bed (even with limited sexual experience, she was amazing; best I had, most likely contributed 
• Thoughtful and considerate of others
• Altruistic
• Not afraid to show interest; no "hard to get" games (she showed her interest in me almost immediately and no games, which I really liked)
• Comparable values with sex, relationships, etc. (ours was almost identical to each other)
• Knows how to make a relationship work (read a lot of the same relationship books, like Fighting for Your Marriage by Markman et al., and a few others;  she does know how to make a relationship work, she just knew she wasn't ready at this time)
• Loves graveyards (yes, this is a bonus for me; always loved graveyards and so does she)

To clarify too, there was NO way she love-bombed me as far as claiming we had all these similar interests.  Many of them were on her dating profile where we first started talking.  Others I never even mentioned until she did.  I've learned over the years (after dealing with a couple narcissists) to not give too much away too soon so they can't love bomb.  

This is why I moved things fast with her.  I know my list is completely unreasonable, yet she hit EVERY single one of the things and then some.  I couldn't believe it.  That is why she re-instilled my belief in "twin flames."

To explain that a bit more, when I was 14, I met the most amazing couple.  They were into all the New Age stuff and like second parents to me.  Their love was remarkable.  You could feel the love just pouring from the two of them.  Ever since then, I wanted to find the same.  With how compatible me and this ex was, I felt there was no other explanation for it.  So, when you are this picky and you find literally every single thing you want in someone after searching about 30yrs, of course you don't want to let it go and of course you are anxious to start a future with them.  I mean even if twin flames are just a fairy tale, the odds of finding someone that met all my criteria (and I felt sparks with) is astronomical.

So yes, I screwed up.  Yes, I wanted to move things too fast.  Yes, I'm most likely never going to find it again.  *If* twin flames do exist, then she is currently "the runner."  I know the best I can do (as plenty have suggested) is let her go and if she eventually comes back, then maybe it's meant to be, or maybe she is just coming back to waste more of my time.  And if they don't exist, then none of this matters anyway.  But most importantly, I do get that I need to stop thinking about the "what ifs" and "what could bes" and all that.  It's just hard with how fresh this is, how much it caught me off guard, and for the other reasons mentioned above.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Love2Love78

[Alpacalia]

It's wonderful that you found someone that you shared a connection with that possessed many of the qualities you enjoy and relate to. Unfortunately, this woman was not in a place to move forward with you.

[SaraSays]

44 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

Ok, before I reply to any more responses here, I wanted to explain a little more why I fell so fast and hard for this woman.  Hopefully, this will make a little more sense.

Like I said, I know I am picky.  I am very unique, and I search for unique people.  Vanilla bores me, and unless a person has a fairly high IQ, they will end up boring me as well.  This happened a few times in the past, where women couldn't keep up and I'd just lose interest.

With that said, I have a LONG list of things I would like to find in someone.  Some are requirements, some are added bonuses.  But for brevity here, I'm just going to put the list down to show you why I was so amazed with this woman.

To date, the most I ever found was someone that had maybe like half the traits I had on the list.  This woman not only had ALL the traits on my list, but she even had some traits that in hindsight, I realized I wanted as well that weren't even on there.

So with that said, here is a list of the things I either need or like to see, ALL of which was applicable to her:

• Highly Intelligent
• Very affectionate (touch is my top love language, so this is important)
• Extremely open-minded but not to the point of credulity (ex. not religious, but open-minded about spirituality, etc.)
• Understanding and non-judgmental
• Very self-aware and analytical (demonstrated this on multiple occasions, the biggest being when she realized the work she needs to do on herself and needs to be alone to do it)
• Similar love-languages (ours were identical in order - touch at top of list, second for both of us was quality time, third was acts of service, bottom of both our list was gifts ((both non-materialistic))
• Similar taste in decor (Victorian/Gothic, dark taste)
• Similar taste in music (dubstep and metal, but overall eclectic)
• Horror fan (she even went to various cons and other events like me, like Spooky Empire)
• Easy-going and laid back (non-argumentative)
• Enjoys intellectual conversations (outgoing introverts ideally, which she was)
• Understands and/or appreciates that I ask LOTS of questions to get to know the person (most people like it because they know it shows I'm interested, but the liars or people trying to hide things get irritated with it fairly quickly, as they have a hard time keeping up with all the lies they need to feed me as a result)
• Fairly in shape and extremely attractive to me (I was a trainer for years, so this is a bonus)
• Set high standards for themselves (she was the same as me - very self-critical, which gave her a tendency to over-achieve on most things)
• Love kids (she was a great mother and great with my kids)
• Kind-hearted (obviously with putting others ahead of herself, she did this a little too much)
• Respect for their body (don't just sleep around, which she didn't at all)
• Sex has meaning to them (not interested in casual sex, one-night stands, sex based primarily on physical attraction, etc.)
• Non-materialistic (this is why she was willing to give up everything in the divorce - the material things didn't matter to her at all)
• Forgiving; doesn't hold grudges (even after all her ex did to her, she still didn't hold a grudge against him)
• Amazing in bed (even with limited sexual experience, she was amazing; best I had, most likely contributed 
• Thoughtful and considerate of others
• Altruistic
• Not afraid to show interest; no "hard to get" games (she showed her interest in me almost immediately and no games, which I really liked)
• Comparable values with sex, relationships, etc. (ours was almost identical to each other)
• Knows how to make a relationship work (read a lot of the same relationship books, like Fighting for Your Marriage by Markman et al., and a few others;  she does know how to make a relationship work, she just knew she wasn't ready at this time)
• Loves graveyards (yes, this is a bonus for me; always loved graveyards and so does she)

To clarify too, there was NO way she love-bombed me as far as claiming we had all these similar interests.  Many of them were on her dating profile where we first started talking.  Others I never even mentioned until she did.  I've learned over the years (after dealing with a couple narcissists) to not give too much away too soon so they can't love bomb.  

This is why I moved things fast with her.  I know my list is completely unreasonable, yet she hit EVERY single one of the things and then some.  I couldn't believe it.  That is why she re-instilled my belief in "twin flames."

To explain that a bit more, when I was 14, I met the most amazing couple.  They were into all the New Age stuff and like second parents to me.  Their love was remarkable.  You could feel the love just pouring from the two of them.  Ever since then, I wanted to find the same.  With how compatible me and this ex was, I felt there was no other explanation for it.  So, when you are this picky and you find literally every single thing you want in someone after searching about 30yrs, of course you don't want to let it go and of course you are anxious to start a future with them.  I mean even if twin flames are just a fairy tale, the odds of finding someone that met all my criteria (and I felt sparks with) is astronomical.

So yes, I screwed up.  Yes, I wanted to move things too fast.  Yes, I'm most likely never going to find it again.  *If* twin flames do exist, then she is currently "the runner."  I know the best I can do (as plenty have suggested) is let her go and if she eventually comes back, then maybe it's meant to be, or maybe she is just coming back to waste more of my time.  And if they don't exist, then none of this matters anyway.  But most importantly, I do get that I need to stop thinking about the "what ifs" and "what could bes" and all that.  It's just hard with how fresh this is, how much it caught me off guard, and for the other reasons mentioned above.

It's great to have a think about what matters to you like this, and good to ask ourselves how important things are.

There's no way to know if someone encompasses all those things when barely 2 months of limerence have passed, though (nor for them to know if we are all of those things we claim to be). Our imaginations run wild during the limerence phase. Also, most things are vague on your list - every human would claim to be most of them, despite their behaviour showing they're not. It's also not the basis for something long-lasting to imagine someone good for us is just like us, because all kinds of people could be good for us, and difference can be magnificent (context is everything).

• "Highly Intelligent" <<<what does that mean? Is it bookish? Is it qualifications? Is it being able to sit with any type of person, and show warmth and find common ground? Is it being able to talk about any topic? 
• "Understanding and non-judgmental" <<<what does that mean? Is it living amongst all kinds of people? Is it volunteering to support the needy? Is it listening to whatever people say, and not passing comment? Is it having lived such a varied life, that empathy comes easy, whatever someone is going through?
• "Knows how to make a relationship work (read a lot of the same relationship books, like Fighting for Your Marriage by Markman et al., and a few others;  she does know how to make a relationship work, she just knew she wasn't ready at this time)" <<<neither of you have shown this in this short relationship, based on your posts
• "Love kids (she was a great mother and great with my kids)" <<<neither of you have shown this in this short relationship, based on your posts

I think 4 things of big importance missing from your list, which are important for anyone to consider, are:

• the  stuff pertaining to "what would happen day-to-day in our relationship to show this? how often would this happen for me to be able to confidently say this is consistent behaviour?"
• the stuff pertaining to "what do I hope they are good at, that I am not, so they can help me to grow? what's the stuff I think matters, that doesn't? what's the stuff I can compromise easily on?"
• the stuff pertaining to "what's the good stuff I do easily?  what are my annoying habits? what are the things about me that could annoy someone to such an extent that they could think it's better to  be without me?"
• the stuff pertaining to "what are their annoying habits? what are things about them I find tough to stomach?"

[thewoomensay]

Hello love2love,

 

It is exciting to witness someone experience such strong emotions. A person to make them feel this feeling is what most people search for and even pay someone to find for them.

However, there is something alarming about your pace. Love is known to be anchored in peace and calmness, so why the rush? After all, if this woman is the one you want to spend the rest of your life with, why should being Facebook official matter? (I think you need this to announce to competition she is taken. Please know that if someone is interested in exploring further, Facebook will not stop them. If anything, it facilitates them).

If you ask me, you two are moving faster than the speed of light. Meeting each other’s kids after only five months? This is a no, no. She is allowing much more than she should. In fact, she is not cautious enough if she let you near them after only knowing you for such a brief period.

Moving in together is also reckless at this time. Especially for a woman with children. You could be anything. It takes some people more time to find a place to live, let alone someone to live with. Things like cohabitation should be discussed after a year of dating. Right now, you both have the luxury or enjoying each other and the option for some privacy when you need it. You are still in the discovery phase. That should be your focus.

You are basing every one of your decisions on feelings. I heard those tend to change. You have not spent enough time together to actually know much about one another. Is she really the woman of your dreams? Are you who you claim to be? Does she have any addictions? How are her finances? What is she like when she is upset? Disappointed? Hurt? Bored?

Sex is always wonderful in the first few months, which is where you both are, but what happens when chemistry fizzles? Your first paragraph clearly shows this is infatuation and not love. You have not mentioned anything about her character, intelligence, drive, nor tenacity, which shows you do not know her.  

You used the word “anxious” twice in your letter. Concerning. This shows me it is a prevalent emotion, and she is not the first one to trigger it. You also mention that speed is your MO. It has not served you well in the past, but you are still not willing to learn the lesson. You have jumped, too, soon in relationships before, and I am sure at the time, you were thinking the same thing about the people you were dating. They were the one, and you were in love.

The difference between the two of you is that she has learned a lesson, and she is applying it. Whatever happened with her ex-husband has taught her caution and pace. The same cannot be said about you. Why not just enjoy one another’s company and get to know each other more? If this is indeed the right person, she is not going to go anywhere. Things will only progress from here. You will eventually move in together, announce on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, get married and maybe even have more kids.

Also, think about the children. Kids form attachment quickly. Should this not work out, they are going to be hurt if not traumatized. For the sake of everyone please just continue to date for now and bring up this convo again in 6 months. You may end up thanking us, or who knows, she might

[thewoomensay]

I think you need time.

Edited March 10, 2021 by thewoomensay

[SaraSays]

6 minutes ago, thewoomensay said:

I think you need time.

Barely 2 months, not 5. They misled us here,  using 2 usernames (the original username is different to the one they're using to answer us). If you look at the posting history of the account they're using to answer us, you'll see they made another post about meeting this person in Jan of this year.

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, Love2Love78 said:

So yes, I screwed up.  Yes, I wanted to move things too fast.  Yes, I'm most likely never going to find it again. 

Of course you will find it again, and probably find someone even better. For this to happen you need to grow emotionally. You seem to suffer from emotional dependency and emotional dependency is not about loving someone, it's about filling a void and looking for someone else to make us happy. 

You also seem to be addicted to the new-relationship-energy & the release of the oxytocin when you meet someone new that you're excited about and you call all that *love*. It is not love. Love is when the honeymoon phase has gone, when you see the person for whom she is with all of her flaws, and you still want them in your life.  You need a good 6 months to identify if what you feel is infatuation or love. 

Now, your list of requirement is not something hard to find. Most women have all of those qualities ( ok maybe not the graveyard one :-)) . What you are doing now is put this woman on a pedestal that she may not even deserve because you've only known her for 60 days. You've spent more time with your barber than you spent with her.