SaraSays Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Watercolors said: You and she have different communication styles, as has been said. Your communication style is mature and the healthy way to address and resolve conflict. Her communication style is to gaslight and silent treatment you, in order to emotionally manipulate you b/c that's how her parents communicated with her (that's how we learn these communication pattern styles from dysfunctional parenting). I don't think we know enough yet, to determine this (mindful the poster has not come back since they posted, so hasn't responded to questions, nor explained anything in more detail that others are discussing). We don't know if she asks him for space, before turning away, and so on. From his post, we know he pushes for her to talk things through on his timeline. If he does that, after she has asked for space, that's an unsafe environment for her, because he's not respecting boundaries. If he does that, after she says nothing about needing space, I think that's much more understandable, because he'd be left with no idea if it'd ever be resolved. 1 of the examples I have from my own life of the former is of me having said I needed a bit of space, and a man continuously bothering me despite that (I had to turn off my phone, as he wouldn't stop phoning and sending messages, and I felt unsafe). Another example is of me telling my boyfriend I wanted to sleep, and discuss the thing the next day, and he wouldn't let it go that night (I had to sleep on my couch with no cover, as he wouldn't stop speaking at me, and I felt unsafe).
Miss Spider Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, SaraSays said: In general, or in the examples I am giving? Can you explain your perspective on how you're definining self-serving, and in what specific context, if your answer to the first question is something other than in general (there are situations where I think both can be present, but I don't believe both can be present in all situations, where an apology is appropriate)? I was just trying to illustrate (probably poorly, in hindsight) with argument by analogy how using terms like ‘manipulative’ and ‘abusive’ to describe cold shouldering someone can be problematic, because a lot of things can be seen as a way of manipulating a situation to your advantage...It just got taken way too far. Sorry. 50 minutes ago, poppyfields said: Absolutely agree!! 100% no question. Maybe you missed the part of my post where I said even communicating something as simple as "I can't talk about this right now, let's touch base later" is an acceptable form of communication imo. What I don't agree with is going silent and withdrawing without telling your partner why. Again, even that one sentence "I can't talk about it right now" will suffice. You cool off, calm down and discuss later. Or @Shortskirtslonglashesdo you believe your partner never wanting to talk about, or discuss the issue, is acceptable? If so, how do you resolve conflicts if you and/or your partner never want to talk about it? I’m not saying that you shouldnt, just that I don’t think it’s always necessary. I’m a firm believer in “taking a hint” and how nonverbal communication is just as meaningful. For what it’s worth, I’ve never intentionally walked away or left or ignored a person with the assumption they didn’t know why. I assumed OP’s knows his girl does not want to talk or hang out with him. Now, it would be a bit different if he didn’t know what the issue was and she just wanted him to grovel for no reason in particular. I guess there are people who do that , but they sound like a complete a******. Just my opinion. I don’t know what the point of that would be other than to get attention or exercising power. I think more often that that a person who freezes someone out and person doesn’t know why , it’s not totally intentional, but it’s because the person doesn’t want to be around the person doesn’t know how to articulate what bothered them or that it even bothered them in the first place. But that’s just conjecture. I do think a lot of times for everyone it is a last resort when they think talking it out with not accomplish the desired results. Thsts really all I have to say on it Edited February 28, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes
basil67 Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 3 hours ago, poppyfields said: Stronger men won't tolerate it, which earned my respect. Back when we were dating, I would have been out on my ear if I tried silent treatment with my husband. And, you're right that made me respect him more. Truth be told, I can agitate for things I want quite strongly, so the ability to say "no" to me is something which is on the list of essentials a potential partner must have. @agawam25 I suggest you stop tolerating her behaviour. If she keeps this up, you're going to have a very miserable life together. 1
basil67 Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: Perhaps I should have just broke up with him instead like I wanted to that night? Breakup vs stonewall? There's another option available - anger management and communication.
Miss Spider Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 25 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: I was just trying to illustrate (probably poorly, in hindsight) with argument by analogy how using terms like ‘manipulative’ and ‘abusive’ to describe cold shouldering someone can be problematic, because a lot of things can be seen as a way of manipulating a situation to your advantage...It just got taken way too far. Sorry. I’m not saying that you shouldnt, just that I don’t think it’s always necessary. I’m a firm believer in “taking a hint” and how nonverbal communication is just as meaningful. For what it’s worth, I’ve never intentionally walked away or left or ignored a person with the assumption they didn’t know why. I assumed OP’s knows his girl does not want to talk or hang out with him. Now, it would be a bit different if he didn’t know what the issue was and she just wanted him to grovel for no reason in particular. I guess there are people who do that , but they sound like a complete a******. Just my opinion. I don’t know what the point of that would be other than to get attention or exercising power. I think more often that that a person who freezes someone out and person doesn’t know why , it’s not totally intentional, but it’s because the person doesn’t want to be around the person doesn’t know how to articulate what bothered them or that it even bothered them in the first place. But that’s just conjecture. I do think a lot of times for everyone it is a last resort when they think talking it out with not accomplish the desired results. Thsts really all I have to say on it Wait. One more thing on this the ‘manipulation’ thing, I thought I added it in this comment but I guess I accidentally deleted it: I was dating this guy who had walked away when I was acting UP. I was like “ how could you do that to meeeee?! You should never walk away or ignore someone. You should always talk it out in a healthy relationship.” I was guilt tripping him... and it worked. OK now that might’ve been manipulation lol. I knew exactly why he did it , he was fed up.
Miss Spider Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, basil67 said: Breakup vs stonewall? There's another option available - anger management and communication. Communication doesn’t resolve all issues. Sometimes you come to an impasse and you know that without having to waste your breath Edited February 28, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes
SaraSays Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: I was dating this guy who had walked away when I was acting UP. I was like “ how could you do that to meeeee?! You should never walk away or ignore someone. You should always talk it out in a healthy relationship.” I was guilt tripping him... and it worked. OK now that might’ve been manipulation lol. I knew exactly why he did it , he was fed up. This isn't an example of good relationship communication, though, in my opinion. This is just blaming and shaming the other person to me, in the hopes that they'll feel so bad, the other person will get away with not apologising, and can claim the higher ground. This style of communication wouldn't provide a positive path forward for a relationship, in my opinion. 1
basil67 Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: Communication doesn’t resolve all issues. Sometimes you come to an impasse and you know that without having to waste your breath In which case, the couple either agrees to do disagree and respects the other's choice. Or they end it. Anyway, I'm going to focus on the OP from here on in. Edited February 28, 2021 by basil67 1
FMW Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 To focus on what @agawam25 posted, On 2/25/2021 at 2:58 PM, agawam25 said: she has a tendency to turn her back to me in bed or leave the bed altogether and sleep on the couch, most often with little provocation or because of a misunderstanding. He knows why she's doing it - he knows there was a misunderstanding, or a provocation - regardless of whether he judges it to be sufficient to rightfully bother her or not. So she's not just suddenly going silent with him left in the dark as to what the issue is. On 2/25/2021 at 2:58 PM, agawam25 said: To be frank, I don't always react well and have on occasion come off as needy because I insisted we talk it out right away she might just need to take a moment, but when he insists on immediately having it out it might just push her further in the direction of not wanting to deal with him at the moment. On 2/25/2021 at 2:58 PM, agawam25 said: These last the night and in the morning she's more approachable and we usually talk out the issue quickly and move on. she requires the night to be in a more communicative state, she's not shutting him down for days. I'm not saying that what she's doing is cool, I just think that jumping to the conclusion that she's gaslighting and manipulating isn't supported by the one side of the information given. 2 1
Wiseman2 Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 On 2/25/2021 at 4:13 PM, agawam25 said: it's 6 months I think we argue over what is basically stressful times. She does have a tendency to react to a slightest misunderstanding with anger, which is something I don't necessarily think is healthy. This is a lot of drama and arguing "at least once a week" for dating 24 weeks. Unfortunately it sounds like you are incompatible. That is more striking than whether she would rather cool off while you would rather continue arguing. 2 3
CollinW Posted February 28, 2021 Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, FMW said: she requires the night to be in a more communicative state, she's not shutting him down for days. This isn't acceptable in an adult relationship. Anything that could be solved tomorrow could be solved tonight unless you have emotional and communicative deficiencies. Needing to cool off before being able to think in an effective manner means you have behavioral and/or anger issues. This is especially a problem when a person who acts like this does this for every little thing. Then it becomes a series of silent treatment and tension which destroys the overall tone of the relationship. He needs to leave. 2
poppyfields Posted March 1, 2021 Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, CollinW said: Anything that could be solved tomorrow could be solved tonight.. Like my late dad always said, never go to bed angry at your partner. Never forgotten and have taken that with me to this day. Well, with the exception of my recent ex, he was the first. It's not as easy as it sounds! Edited March 1, 2021 by poppyfields 1
Author agawam25 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Posted March 2, 2021 Thank you all for your replies. It took me a little longer to respond, but here I am. So, to say a couple of things: first of all, no, it's not about sex at all. In those situations I neither expected nor wanted sex. It was about her behaving outside of the norm in terms of us going to bed together, etc. In the meantime she admitted to a couple of things, first, sometimes feeling overwhelmed and needing a bit of personal space. She claims that at least one of our recent fights could have been prevented if I had given her 10-15 minutes on her own. She also said that sometimes she acts out towards me because she is bothered by a number of other things in her life (work stuff, friends, family issues, etc.) and I just happen to suffer the fallout due to proximity. So if anything she is well aware that her behavior is not okay and that I am not to be blamed for some of the times when she felt she needed to distance herself. I can tell she's been trying to act better towards me - she's been nothing but gentle since the last argument. But then today we had a weird moment again. Her mood worsened due to work-related stuff (I think) and she felt the urge to go for a walk on her own. To be honest, I felt a bit hurt because she left the house abruptly and without a clear explanation as to what might be the problem. We tend to talk to each other quite openly about everything, so this is quite out of character. It didn't happen before either. I was left to ruminate at home without a clear explanation other than that she feels bad and needs a walk on her own. Frankly, what hurts the most is that she's making me feel like I'm not reliable and that she can't share her problems with me - although she usually does at a later point. I know I can't solve her problems, but I do want to be the first person she turns to when she feels bad, and going away makes me feel the opposite of that. Anyway, hope you people might have more solid advice and insights, because I am struggling to understand.
SaraSays Posted March 2, 2021 Posted March 2, 2021 @agawam25 could you please solve the mystery in the thread? Does she let you know she needs some time and space before she takes it? If she does, are you in the habit of disputing it, or do you encourage her to take the time she needs and leave her alone til then?
FMW Posted March 2, 2021 Posted March 2, 2021 4 hours ago, agawam25 said: She claims that at least one of our recent fights could have been prevented if I had given her 10-15 minutes on her own. There's a pretty good clue right there. I'm sure you don't feel like you're needy or wanting too much of her time, but it seems likely she might. Your phrasing of "she claims" indicates you don't believe that what she's telling you is a problem is really a problem. To me, that's a problem in itself. Some people have a greater need for space and time to decompress without interacting with anyone. It seems like the two of you might have a disconnect with compatibility in that area. She's likely just as frustrated with you as you are with her during those times. 1
Author agawam25 Posted March 4, 2021 Author Posted March 4, 2021 On 3/2/2021 at 7:20 PM, SaraSays said: @agawam25 could you please solve the mystery in the thread? Does she let you know she needs some time and space before she takes it? If she does, are you in the habit of disputing it, or do you encourage her to take the time she needs and leave her alone til then? She's become more explicit about it recently, and obviously, I've become more calm and understanding in those situations. In the past, she'd just suddenly become abrasive and cynical in her replies while staring at her phone. Or she'd turn her back after a biting comment and then say something like "now I want to sleep, good night." She wouldn't attempt to communicate what went wrong or got her upset. To me, this is not a mature way to communicate. We all have the right to have our own space, and God forbid I would ever insist or force my presence onto my partner. I want her to be the happiest and the most well-balanced person. Anything else would be self-centered and selfish. Of course I feel the need to at least clarify a misunderstanding right away - again, these are not big, monumental fights, but IMO they should not be allowed to fester - but I'm equally if not more interested in her well being and our stability as a couple in general. I just don't necessarily get how she can be so tender, gentle and caring, sometimes for a prolonged period of time, and then go to this cold-shoulder, distanced person who snaps back at me so quickly, often due to something I didn't even perceive as a problem or provocation. I don't want to use specific examples, but some of our arguments came out of very banal matters.
SaraSays Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, agawam25 said: Of course I feel the need to at least clarify a misunderstanding right away Just to be clear, does this means she asks for a bit of breathing space, and you immediately try to start discussing the dispute, even though she asked for a bit of time before discussing it?
Wiseman2 Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, agawam25 said: she'd turn her back after a biting comment and then say something like "now I want to sleep, good night." You're right. She should just go home if she's that upset and the argument is dragging on and on. Why can't you just stop arguing and address things when cooler heads prevail? That would be a good skill to learn. Biggest mistake people make is escalating things like this and continuing fighting after going to bed. That means you're incompatible. She may just be moody, whatever. In any case, you're incompatible.
Author agawam25 Posted March 4, 2021 Author Posted March 4, 2021 1 minute ago, SaraSays said: Just to be clear, does this means she asks for a bit of breathing space, and you immediately try to start discussing the dispute, even though she asked for a bit of time before discussing it? She wasn't explicit about it until recently. She'd just shut me out completely (stare at her phone or turn her back) or start replying in this very cynical way. Or say things like, why don't you find someone else who'll understand you better, etc.
SaraSays Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, agawam25 said: She wasn't explicit about it until recently. She'd just shut me out completely (stare at her phone or turn her back) or start replying in this very cynical way. Or say things like, why don't you find someone else who'll understand you better, etc. How do you react now that she is explicit?
Author agawam25 Posted March 4, 2021 Author Posted March 4, 2021 35 minutes ago, SaraSays said: How do you react now that she is explicit? I try to give her space - I calmly say okay, I'll now leave the room/go do the dishes/take a shower etc., once you are feeling okay and are ready to talk, I'm here. I'm not mad, I think we can talk this out, but only when you're ready. Worked alright the one time we had a minor disagreement recently. 1
SaraSays Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, agawam25 said: I try to give her space - I calmly say okay, I'll now leave the room/go do the dishes/take a shower etc., once you are feeling okay and are ready to talk, I'm here. I'm not mad, I think we can talk this out, but only when you're ready. Worked alright the one time we had a minor disagreement recently. That's great. Well done.
Author agawam25 Posted March 4, 2021 Author Posted March 4, 2021 I should also say that I think a lot of this comes from bad experiences in the past. Based on everything she told me, her most significant partners were lousy communicators. Either aggressive arguers or silent, withdrawn types. I've noticed a shift in the way she behaves when we're around friends, for instance. Originally she was much more combative or abrasive, as if we were there to compete. Now she's much more inclusive and acts like we're a team. 1
Gaeta Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 1 hour ago, agawam25 said: Or say things like, why don't you find someone else who'll understand you better, etc. That is a whole different game here. To me that indicates you care much more for her than she does for you. I would never EVER say that to a man I love not even in our biggest disagreement. At first I thought it's miscommunication but now I see it differently. If I were you I'd consider she's short with you because her feelings are changing.
Gaeta Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 44 minutes ago, agawam25 said: I should also say that I think a lot of this comes from bad experiences in the past. Based on everything she told me, her most significant partners were lousy communicators. I sincerely think it's irrelevant. You don't become a bad communicator because you dealt with a bad communicator in the past. If that was true then I would have turned into a liar, cheater and abuser as per my dating history. 1
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