Regret

[Soul-shards]

How do you deal with regret about marital choice two decades after, within the context below: 

- The marriage is not bad, in fact very good in many ways. Unfortunately, it has one weak link that causes one partner to feel deeply unfulfilled. The unmet need is vital and the partner walks around frustrated (no it's not sex, it's more along the lines of intellectual/spiritual compatibility, connection, and fit).  

- Marriage cannot be ended. I will not elaborate on reasons, but bottom line is there is no rational reason to end it after 20 years because only bad things would come out of it, for children included; no, the spouses can't start over and find someone else better suited for them). 

- Marriage cannot be "worked on". This has been tried for many years in all conceivable manners and that particular problem/weak link cannot be fixed. It boils down to irreconcilable genetic/wiring differences. It is not for a lack of trying, good will, communication, or awareness on the part of both spouses. All work has been done and all the improvements than can be made have already been made - the bridging efforts have reached their peak. Unfortunately, the incompatibility is still there for the partner with the unmet need. 

- The spouses do care about each other very much and otherwise have many good, functional things going on in the marriage (affection, cooperation, attachment, companionship - be it not at the level of quality the unsatisfied partner needs it to be, physical intimacy, commitment to their family).

- The partner with the need unmet has a platonic (so far) LD-R with someone who fills that need in spades, but who is also married and very much unavailable for re-marriage. 

- The marital choice was made at a time when the partner with the unmet need was not all that self-aware but still had a hunch about these internal differences, which she chose to ignore, in the name of all other wonderful tings the R had going on. She was also subject to major social and pragmatic pressures to settle down (can't offer details here for privacy reasons). 

- The match the unsatisfied partner really needed was extremely difficult to come by, objectively speaking.

 

The emphasis here is on regret over life choices in one's 20's. How does one deal with that? 

[JRabbit]

What is the regret exactly? That you have a partner that doesn't excite you intelluctually?

I had a friend in a similar scenario, almost cheated on her husband actually.  My point to her was that if her husband meets all her other needs, can she not find a way to fulfill your intellectual needs from friends or academic relationships?  Why does the partner need to fulfill every need in your life?

Is this an excuse to cheat with the one you are bored with?

[Soul-shards]

I need that kind of connection with my life partner, I can't pretend I don't need it in the marriage. No, I can't get it from sundry friends and family, I don't have such who would meet that need.

I only know a man with whom I clicked in ways hard to describe (more available on the OM/OW board), and for whom, unfortunately, I also developed romantic feelings. It turns out the mind-body-spirit trifecta is not separable. 

Regret is for not having waited in my 20's to find the kind of connection I have with this person - all while being aware this would have been extremely unlikely - to find it in due time for marriage, I mean.

I feel psychologically trapped, which causes anxiety, depression and a loss of meaning about life.

What are good coping ways?

Edited February 25, 2021 by Soul-shards

[d0nnivain]

There are ways to cope.  

1. Stop this LDR with this OM.  It will only lead to no good.  It's a slippery slope to an affair & you are very vulnerable to going there despite your intentions. 

2.  Read some pop-psychology books by Dr. Laura called the Care & Feeding of a Husband and the Care & Feeding of a Marriage.  A lot of what is in there is drivel but the bottom line for both books is about appreciation & gratitude.  They should help you focus on the good things in your marriage.   You listed some of them: 

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 affection, cooperation, attachment, companionship 

I would add your children, your lifestyle & your community standing to the list.  It will help you to stop focusing on what you think you are missing.  

Read up on GIGS 'cause you got it bad.  Do not throw away the stability of what you have chasing some childish fairytale of romance. 

Finally find other ways to keep yourself fulfilled.  Hobbies.  Friends.  Therapy. Religion.  As you grow happier you may be surprised what blessings that brings into your life, including a closer connection to your spouse.   

[JRabbit]

2 hours ago, Soul-shards said:

I need that kind of connection with my life partner, I can't pretend I don't need it in the marriage. No, I can't get it from sundry friends and family, I don't have such who would meet that need.

I only know a man with whom I clicked in ways hard to describe (more available on the OM/OW board), and for whom, unfortunately, I also developed romantic feelings. It turns out the mind-body-spirit trifecta is not separable. 

Regret is for not having waited in my 20's to find the kind of connection I have with this person - all while being aware this would have been extremely unlikely - to find it in due time for marriage, I mean.

I feel psychologically trapped, which causes anxiety, depression and a loss of meaning about life.

What are good coping ways?

Please research affair fog, if you have not already.  This mind body spirit connection is likely a result of this.

[Soul-shards]

3 minutes ago, JRabbit said:

Please research affair fog, if you have not already.  This mind body spirit connection is likely a result of this.

It's the other way around. The affair fog is the result of the mind-body-spirit connection.

[Soul-shards]

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Stop this LDR with this OM.  It will only lead to no good.

I have been toying with the idea that it could also lead to good, as a way of coping. Like continuing the friendship and redirecting the sexual tension into something platonic. This should work in lieu of falling apart when all the subsequent suggestions you made don't work. Because I've tried them.

Maybe going deeper with my faith - that's the only thing I still have some hope for. Closer connection to my H than what I already have is not going to happen.

 

 

 

[HiCrunchy]

3 hours ago, JRabbit said:

What is the regret exactly? That you have a partner that doesn't excite you intelluctually?

I had a friend in a similar scenario, almost cheated on her husband actually.  My point to her was that if her husband meets all her other needs, can she not find a way to fulfill your intellectual needs from friends or academic relationships?  Why does the partner need to fulfill every need in your life?

Is this an excuse to cheat with the one you are bored with?

My ex did this to me. And what u said is exactly what I told him at the time. Ugh, totally agree with u!

 

[Soul-shards]

1 minute ago, HiCrunchy said:

My ex did this to me. And what u said is exactly what I told him at the time. Ugh, totally agree with u!

 

Unfortunately, it's easier said than done. Finding someone else to fill that need (could be a relative) does not fix the gap in the marriage, which will eentally show up as other people don't sick around forever. I compensated for a few years with a relative, to some extent, which only masked the gap in the marriage when I was leaving my H alone (which he appreciated) to talk endless hours with her. It worked until it didn't anymore. 

Marriage partners must have a connection, especially if at least one of them is the "connecting" type (intellectually, spiritually, emotionally).

[Pumpernickel]

7 minutes ago, Soul-shards said:

Marriage partners must have a connection, especially if at least one of them is the "connecting" type (intellectually, spiritually, emotionally).

Yes, but lack thereof didn’t bother you (enough) when you chose him. It bothers you now, because somewhere along the road you “met” somebody else (not even sure you’ve met the guy in person) who you think “intrigues” you, or “inspires” you. And now the spirituality and the connection is all of a sudden not “deep” enough in your M. That’s what it sounds like to me.
 

Or: you’ve changed as a person, on an intellectual/mental/spiritual/sexual level, and your H has not, or in a different way, and that’s nothing too unusual/special, either. People change ALL the time in LT-Ms - nothing special there. Many will then have an affair, or get divorced. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Normal! You’re not special! The fact that you don’t want to divorce because of finances, and because you would disappoint family and friends.... I find that a weak argument. If you’re that unhappy, you just do it. Is it hard? Sure, D is VERY hard. Not only for you, though! Gotta be tough sometimes...
 

I get the impression that you think that your situation is somehow special, and different from other bad or - sorry! - “unfulfilling” marriages (since you like to point out that your marriage is actually “good”, despite all of the stuff you’re allegedly lacking). Trust me - your situation is very common. Thousands of people make these tough decisions every day. 
 
Since you’re getting mildly depressed, I’d suggest you sit down with a counselor who can help you clear your head, and they can then go through the decision making process with you step by step, walk you through it, by using a logical approach and rationality. 
 

Write them down, too, these steps you can take to come to a conclusion/decision, and also the “what IFs” - play it through and write down different scenarios, choose one option versus the other one, etc. Eg.: Important Q: “What if MM got divorced, for me, would I change my mind about my own divorce?” (I believe you would be more inclined to leave your M in that scenario, but because you very well know that MM would never do that, it’s easier for you to blame the circumstances (H would be devastated, kids would be as well, extended family&friends would be “disappointed” yadayada ...... believe me, ppl usually don’t care what other ppl do if it doesn’t affect them)). 
 

So - my take is this: You’re unhappy in your M because of the EA. You were fine before the EA. You probably have never even met the “MM” in person. You’re way more invested in your MM than he is in you (sure, he plays along, and I’m sure he enjoys the thrill, he certainly likes you, and it’s a fun distraction for him; but should he get caught (W overhears a convo, sees an iMessage, a WhatsApp msg, etc.) he’ll be out of reach, you’ll be blocked, and your A would be over yesterday; unless the BW decides on his behalf that he’s a free man from now on).

So I would see a therapist and play through all the possible scenarios, and then decide. It’s not true that you CAN’T divorce, you can. You can also stay, obviously. But for both scenarios I’d take the other dude out of the equation. I don’t think he’ll stick around, esp if you decide to leave your marriage. And I think deep down you know it, which is why you tend to use the circumstances as an excuse for why you can’t leave an unfulfilling M. 
Godspeed!

 

[Soul-shards]

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You were fine before the EA.

There were many incorrect assumptions above but this is the most important one. I was not. Absolutely not! I fact, the A brought some relief for the M.

We fought over this issue for almost two decades, almost from the start.

At first, before the M, it was just an inkling. I was young and underestimated how much it would be bother me. Then I began to think it's a matter of time, of getting used to each other, of communication and 'working on the M' (the BS typically bandied about). It wasn't. Then kids and careers and life kicked in and we barely held head above the water - all while my frustrations related to this issue continued to rise. I was at a peak when this MM came along and the relief was incredible. Unfortunately, it was also accompanied by a clear illustration of what should have been.

I never suggested my situation is unique - but neither do I want to D only to end up in an even worse situation.

[Wiseman2]

Have you met this soulmate in person? Is the issue that you believe your husband is intellectually inferior to you?

Since this soulmate is sort of a chat buddy more than some guy you meet in hotels for trysts, have you considered talking to people you perceive or believe are your intellectual equals?

Are the people around you, such as friends, family, co-workers etc.   intelligent enough to talk to?

[spiritedaway2003]

54 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Have you met this soulmate in person? Is the issue that you believe your husband is intellectually inferior to you?

Since this soulmate is sort of a chat buddy more than some guy you meet in hotels for trysts, have you considered talking to people you perceive or believe are your intellectual equals?

Are the people around you, such as friends, family, co-workers etc.   intelligent enough to talk to?

I don't think it's finding others who are intellectual equals that's the problem.  It's the finding that trifecta of the intellectual/spiritual/emotional+ connection that stirs her, and that isn't something that can be 'replaced' by any individuals.  It's tied to that person and that person alone, and it's not interchangeable. That's why the notion of her leaving her marriage is an illogical in her mind if her soulmate isn't available because she would likely be in a worse off situation.  It may take her another 20 years to come across this type of connection (and only if she's lucky enough to find it).  Hobbies and interests are fulfilling, but that's a different kind of fulfillment.

15 hours ago, Soul-shards said:

I have been toying with the idea that it could also lead to good, as a way of coping. Like continuing the friendship and redirecting the sexual tension into something platonic. This should work in lieu of falling apart when all the subsequent suggestions you made don't work. Because I've tried them.

Maybe going deeper with my faith - that's the only thing I still have some hope for. Closer connection to my H than what I already have is not going to happen.

If you are already having the feelings you have now, I would not suggest that you continue the friendship.  This goes against everything your core is telling you, so I think the success of cutting contact is very low, but who knows?  You may have even toyed with the idea that that more you know him, the more you might be annoyed by him and it'd be easier to break things off., but that would just be digging yourself into a deeper hole. I wish you well.  At the end of the day, you have choices (not great choices for you, but they are there). Whatever you decide to do, make that decision and then accept it so that you don't continually live with regrets.

[mark clemson]

If you're genuinely unhappy in the marriage and genuinely feel you can't leave OR improve it, you're stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place, unfortunately.

If you really can't do anything about it, then the best you can likely do is look for other ways to make yourself happy as has been mentioned above. There are more and less ethical and more and less risk-bearing ways to do this, as there are generally in life.

I'm generally of the opinion that "fun" comes from without but "contentment" comes from within, so that is something to perhaps consider.

Edited February 26, 2021 by mark clemson

[Soul-shards]

I am yet to find that "contentment from within," mark. I am trying faith. Actually, I have been trying it for my entire life, but somehow, I fall short.I am still dealing with regret and the gnawing sense that things should have been different.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Soul-shards

[mark clemson]

Addendum, S-s...

 

 

[BaileyB]

My partner has a friend who is always seeking - for what exactly, he knows not. He has never been married, he has no children, he has a good job but he is quite certain that he is not appreciated, has not been rewarded or compensated the way he should be. He works for a few months and then travels the world aimlessly... which is all well and good, if that’s how you chose to live your life. Except - he is miserably lonely and terribly depressed. It’s a terrible was to live but so much of his unhappiness is self induced. 

Now, is it that the women are not good enough, that he hasn’t been rewarded at work - is that what causes his discontent? Probably not. There are many other people who manage to feel fulfilled at the same job, who have found a woman to love and built a life that brings them satisfaction. Is there any particular reason why they are content with their lives, while he is not? Or, does it have everything to do with his expectations, and the mental filter from which he views the world? 

Some people are always seeking, never content. I hear you talk SS and I wonder if you are one of these people. I say this because of the ways in which you look outside yourself for that which you seek - your husband, your relative, your religion, your MM. You have managed to convince yourself that the “problem” lies in the lack of intellectual and spiritual connection with your partner... but does it really? I’m not saying it doesn’t - intellectual compatibility is important and even more so if you decide it is your primary need in a relationship partner. But, many other women would have felt blessed to have found a good partner in life that meets 90% of their needs, knowing that true perfection or “compatibility” as you call it, is unattainable. They would have found what they seek in other ways - by taking university classes for interest and developing intimate female friendships as two possible examples. 

Now, you have found this other man and convinced yourself that this MM is the answer - the thing you have been seeking all along!! But, I have no doubt that if you ever were to get with this man in a legitimate relationship (not an affair which will continue to fuel your belief that he is “everything” because the very nature of the relationship allows him to present himself in exactly this way), you would still find yourself searching for something more... you would be longing for the history and companionship you shared with your husband, you would recognize that this man has flaws, you may come to understand by moving from one relationship to another that no one person can be the source of your every happiness. 

It’s one of my favourite quotes, from the Wizard of Oz - “You had the power all along my dear, you just had to find it for yourself.” 

Edited February 26, 2021 by BaileyB

[Soul-shards]

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- ...for what exactly, he knows not.

I know exactly what I need and what I am looking for. I always knew.

 

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There are many other people who manage to feel fulfilled at the same job, who have found a woman to love and built a life that brings them satisfaction. Is there any particular reason why they are content with their lives, while he is not? Or, does it have everything to do with his expectations, and the mental filter from which he views the world? 

 

All men have NOT been created equal. All men do not need the same thing. What's good for the lion is not good for the butterfly. People have different needs and some people's needs are more complex than others' - hence more difficult to meet. Sermons can't fix such tings. 

 

Quote

...that the “problem” lies in the lack of intellectual and spiritual connection with your partner... but does it really?

 

Yup.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Soul-shards

[Soul-shards]

On 2/26/2021 at 12:18 PM, mark clemson said:

If you really can't do anything about it, then the best you can likely do is look for other ways to make yourself happy as has been mentioned above. There are more and less ethical and more and less risk-bearing ways to do this, as there are generally in life.

Since this is a Coping thread...and all the details are in the other thread, I will only ask: what do you mean, exactly? Like what?

I don't dream of Disney with this MM. I never did, I never would, I am too lucid for that. Disney with this MM is not possible in this lifetime. That's over.

But I keep thinking something else could be. It's like I need closure.   

[Soul-shards]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:02 AM, spiritedaway2003 said:

I don't think it's finding others who are intellectual equals that's the problem.  It's the finding that trifecta of the intellectual/spiritual/emotional+ connection that stirs her, and that isn't something that can be 'replaced' by any individuals.  It's tied to that person and that person alone, and it's not interchangeable. That's why the notion of her leaving her marriage is an illogical in her mind if her soulmate isn't available because she would likely be in a worse off situation.  It may take her another 20 years to come across this type of connection (and only if she's lucky enough to find it).  Hobbies and interests are fulfilling, but that's a different kind of fulfillment.

If you are already having the feelings you have now, I would not suggest that you continue the friendship.  This goes against everything your core is telling you, so I think the success of cutting contact is very low, but who knows?  You may have even toyed with the idea that that more you know him, the more you might be annoyed by him and it'd be easier to break things off., but that would just be digging yourself into a deeper hole. I wish you well.  At the end of the day, you have choices (not great choices for you, but they are there). Whatever you decide to do, make that decision and then accept it so that you don't continually live with regrets.

Spirited,

You could not get it better. It's nice to know at least one person got me. Thank you.

Btw, you said:

Quote

You may have even toyed with the idea that that more you know him, the more you might be annoyed by him and it'd be easier to break things off., but that would just be digging yourself into a deeper hole.

Sometimes I think about how it would be like to have him in the area so I can see him often enough, which would hopefully cause his less-than-flattering traits to start taking over. That's what physical familiarity is supposed to do, no? I need it to breed contempt, so I can let go. I am afraid this would never happen - because I am already aware of certain less than perfect traits he has, and I find them beyond endearing. The good overwhelms the bad or it beautifies it. Urgh. 

My choices will depend on his, I guess.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Soul-shards

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, Soul-shards said:

I will only ask: what do you mean, exactly? Like what?

There are all sorts of things that might make one happier. From TV shows to street racing. My suggestions might not mean much to you as everyone's different. Maintaining a pen pal relationship with this guy is one option you can consider, although if I were you I'd be careful what you write exactly as some stuff might indeed piss off your husband, possibly quite severely.

I think it's our "buddy" @DKT3 who noted early in the "is it more selfish to divorce" thread that ultimately having an affair isn't likely to fix a bad marriage and I think he's right about that particular point. Ultimately, despite what may be some very real emotions, it's a band aid in my opinion. If band aids are the only options you have, perhaps that is better than nothing, dunno. Finding "real fulfillment" in whatever ways are actually feasible for your situation would probably be the best thing you could do for yourself. Not so sure about those around you. That isn't advice to end your marriage, but to maybe look for sustainable ways to keep yourself happy.

It sounds like you're already trying and not succeeding though, which is indeed unfortunate. Finding a good social circle of friends and/or getting involved with some volunteer work (once you're inoculated against COVID) might be things to consider if you haven't already. Those won't provide you with romantic love or the "energy" of a new relationship, but they can probably help somewhat.

 

Edit: BTW, I wouldn't go talking to too many of those friends about this romantic connection you have unless you're actually ok with your husband finding out. "Loose lips sink ships" and affairs or similar are juicy gossip. You might get unlucky and someone finds out who feels a "moral obligation" to tell (regardless of impact on you and your kids), etc. Save it for a therapist IMO, IF you end up needing something like that to process things.

Edited February 27, 2021 by mark clemson

[Minneloa]

2 hours ago, Soul-shards said:

My choices will depend on his, I guess.

Just to clarify, are you referring to his willingness to engage in a physical affair?

[Soul-shards]

Mark,

Thank you for your recent post, I appreciate your open-minded and level-headed support . Unfortunately, I am afraid none of that sublimation stuff would work because I feel that this lack of 'fulfillment" concerns specifically the relationship/romantic front. While activities in other areas may be nice and distracting for the moment - they will never give me closure. 

In fact, I had some of that for a while, when we hosted a relative for a few years. This relative and I were very close and we had a wonderful relationship that filled in for the lack of adequate connection with my H. Then she moved and the issue re-surfaced. I have some hobbies and my children with whom I am doing some things - but none of this would ever address the sense of failure on the romantic front. I had a total of 3 R-s in my life, the third being my husband - and none was a complete, fully satisfying R, with that complete 'in love' certainty, on both sides. First two were brief and very brief, respectively - full of turmoil, insecurity and anxiety on my part. My marriage has been what I presented.

It's more like a sense that I must live my REAL LOVE R at some point, even if this is not going to come in Disney form.     

Quote

I wouldn't go talking to too many of those friends about this romantic connection.

You've got to be kidding me. I am not happy to say this, but in the era of Covid, I have acquaintances, but the kind of friends that I would open up to with something like that? Unfortunately, no. Do you think  I'd be here if I had someone I could confide in? This is buried, which makes it even more difficult.

I am also fully aware of how humanity works. Yes, you'd always risk the 'do-gooder' tortured by the "moral obligation" to tell. It happens all the time - I see advice like this on R forums. Oh, well. Those people really think they are doing God's work.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Soul-shards

[Soul-shards]

3 hours ago, Minneloa said:

Just to clarify, are you referring to his willingness to engage in a physical affair?

Yes.

[d0nnivain]

You started this thread by saying divorce is not possible because there is "no rational reason" to end the marriage.  Your whole premise is wrong.  The spouses can start over finding somebody more suitable.  You simply have to make that choice, which you appear unwilling to do.  

Now you are saying you are open to a physical affair, assuming this new guy is willing.  That IS a rational reason to end the marriage!  Don't cheat.  Cheating & breaking your vows is far worse then ending the marriage.  Maybe it's time for you to re-evaluate your own moral compass.