Yosemite Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 This guy is at least ethical enough to not say ily when he doesn’t mean it. However, it’s been a year and a half and you only see each other twice a week, there’s been no talk of marriage or moving in together, and you straight up asked him if he loved you and he didn’t say yes…which means the answer is no. All of that indicates that he knows that his feelings aren’t growing. One of the most common situations in the dating world is a woman who sticks with a guy for 3, 4, 5 or more years while he stalls the relationship in some way. He’ll move in with her, but he won’t propose. He’ll propose, but he won’t set a date etc and the years keep drifting by. She talks and talks with him about it and finally gets fed up and leaves and he goes and marries someone else in two blinks of an eye. Only then does she realize that the reasons that he gave her for not moving forward were just excuses…he just wasn’t into her enough to move the relationship forward. The 3 or 4 years that she spent waiting for him to commit/propose/move-in etc. were wasted time. If you don’t want that to happen to you, you should set a time period in your mind (that you don’t tell him about) that you’re willing to let this go on. I would say 6 months, definitely no more than year. In that time, the relationship needs to move forward and it needs come from him. In other words, he needs to suggest that you move in together without any prodding from you (and follow it with action); he needs to bring up marriage and talk about your future together without you suggesting it first. If he does those things without any suggestion or pressure from you, then you can decide if hearing the words, “I love you” are just as or more important than his actions. But right now, his actions are saying that he’s not all in this relationship (you only see each other twice a week after dating for a year and a half; you have no plans for the future i.e., move in together or get married) and he won’t say I love you…you need to be very careful because you could very easily end up wasting years on a relationship that has no future. 8 1
FMW Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 Everyone has to decide what the dealbreakers are for their own relationships, and that includes whether not hearing "I love you" is one of them. OP, people on both sides of the issue are bringing to the conversation opinions largely based on their own experiences or expectations. I can see both sides, but generally I value actions over words. Every guy who was ever unfaithful to me told me frequently that they loved me and lots of other pretty words. I've learned and am continuing to learn in my current relationship that sometimes men can communicate things verbally that we as women don't immediately pick up on, or maybe don't pick up on at all because we're only listening for what fits our expectations of how things should be said. Sometimes after the fact I realize that he's said something really beautiful to me about what I mean to him, beyond just telling me he loves me, but I just didn't "hear" it immediately. We're all individuals with our own styles. We can make generalizations about men and women, but sometimes even those don't stand up to the test with every individual. That's where actions come into play - what are they showing you? If you feel the love from what he's actually doing for you, it's there. For love languages, as has been noted, that would be the difference between words of affirmation and acts of service. All that being said, there's nothing wrong with needing to hear the words. I don't agree with the blanket assumption that he absolutely doesn't love you just because he won't say the words even when specifically pressed. But you have to decide if you can keep moving forward with him. 9
poppyfields Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 55 minutes ago, FMW said: Everyone has to decide what the dealbreakers are for their own relationships, and that includes whether not hearing "I love you" is one of them. OP, people on both sides of the issue are bringing to the conversation opinions largely based on their own experiences or expectations. I can see both sides, but generally I value actions over words. Every guy who was ever unfaithful to me told me frequently that they loved me and lots of other pretty words. I've learned and am continuing to learn in my current relationship that sometimes men can communicate things verbally that we as women don't immediately pick up on, or maybe don't pick up on at all because we're only listening for what fits our expectations of how things should be said. Sometimes after the fact I realize that he's said something really beautiful to me about what I mean to him, beyond just telling me he loves me, but I just didn't "hear" it immediately. We're all individuals with our own styles. We can make generalizations about men and women, but sometimes even those don't stand up to the test with every individual. That's where actions come into play - what are they showing you? If you feel the love from what he's actually doing for you, it's there. For love languages, as has been noted, that would be the difference between words of affirmation and acts of service. All that being said, there's nothing wrong with needing to hear the words. I don't agree with the blanket assumption that he absolutely doesn't love you just because he won't say the words even when specifically pressed. But you have to decide if you can keep moving forward with him. Awesome post.^^
lana-banana Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 I don't think the words themselves are all that important. Actions and outcomes are much more valuable when it comes to determining how someone feels. In this case, seeing each other twice a week at 15 months, with no plans to move in together or for a longer-term future, and (most of all) the OP's fear that she can't communicate with him about it and the likelihood that he doesn't share her feelings, is very suggestive of a relationship that's not as secure or as developed as she wants it to be. If she truly had no doubts whatsoever, she wouldn't be feeling those anxieties and she wouldn't be here. This guy doesn't sound like a bad guy at all. He may be a great, supportive boyfriend to the extent that he's comfortable. If OP is happy with things as they are now, she can take this relationship at face value and keep going. If she wants more, like a marriage or even cohabitation, this guy might not be the one. What she wants to do next and how much she wants to keep investing is up to her. 3
Lorenza Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 His total inability to talk about things that he isn't quite comfortable with would worry me more than the lack of verbal recognition of his feelings towards you. Stonewalling is not an appropriate response to a "do you love me" type of question, or to anything really. There are things that can only be resolved by talking it out and no amount of hand-holding and physical gifts will replace it. 9
introverted1 Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 Is his lack of ILY just because he's a guy who shows rather than says love, OR is it because he does not, in fact, love the OP, in which case it's reasonable to assume that he's going to break up with her at some point. If he's as decent as she says, he will come to a point where he won't want to keep leading her on, given that he knows her feelings and doesn't reciprocate them. So even if she is happier than shes ever been in a r/s, I don't see how she could continue to be happy with that knowledge in the back of her head. It's also a concern that he shuts down any time he is asked to talk about emotions. I get that some people are more comfortable than others when it comes to talking about feelings, but to flat out refuse to address the direct question of "do you love me" is weird... or a way to hide from saying "no." At 15 months, he either loves her or never will. 3
smackie9 Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) When a person, not just a guy that has trouble or refuses to express feelings, this is a big red flag. If there is a time when good communication is needed, which is very important in a healthy relationship, it's going to be an issue, a struggle, resentment, assumption, etc. Someone who is closed off like that, then there is no emotional connection...you are ripping yourself off. You know you are actually hanging by a thread here. For me dealbreaker. I always want/wanted to relish in the "I love you" it's comforting, it's connecting, it makes things in your relationship flourish. Edited February 1, 2021 by smackie9 2
Author Glam Posted February 1, 2021 Author Posted February 1, 2021 2 hours ago, introverted1 said: Is his lack of ILY just because he's a guy who shows rather than says love, OR is it because he does not, in fact, love the OP, in which case it's reasonable to assume that he's going to break up with her at some point. If he's as decent as she says, he will come to a point where he won't want to keep leading her on, given that he knows her feelings and doesn't reciprocate them. So even if she is happier than shes ever been in a r/s, I don't see how she could continue to be happy with that knowledge in the back of her head. It's also a concern that he shuts down any time he is asked to talk about emotions. I get that some people are more comfortable than others when it comes to talking about feelings, but to flat out refuse to address the direct question of "do you love me" is weird... or a way to hide from saying "no." At 15 months, he either loves her or never will. Why would he want to hide saying no? He has known how I feel since 6 months into our relationship so he has known quite a while already and there is no signs he is going to break up with me any time soon..
elaine567 Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Glam said: Why would he want to hide saying no He knows that if after 15 months the answer is no then you will likely break up with him, so he says nothing. Like all men who string women along they are happy with the status quo, happy to control the narrative, happy to not have to commit to anything, even if it is just ILY. Of course there is also a darker side here too, men who want to maintain power in the relationship. As long as she is kept wondering and waiting, he has the upper hand. Women who are unsure of how he feels will pander and be compliant, to try to make him change his mind... He may like that dynamic. 5
Gaeta Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, Glam said: Why would he want to hide saying no? He has known how I feel since 6 months into our relationship so he has known quite a while already and there is no signs he is going to break up with me any time soon.. Glam, you are being very naive here. People walk out of 'what seems happy relationships' every day. It's only after the fact, with a bit of distance, you realize OH that's why he never wanted to talk about his feelings, that's why he wouldn't move apartment and find better room-mates, why he never spoke of one day moving in together, why he only had time for 2 dates a week. PLENTY of men hide saying no and it was explained to you in details in this thread. Take time to read everything over again. Men get comfortable in a relationship, it's regular sex, companionship, the occasional weekend away. They don't need to be in-love to enjoy that. Your guy is keeping you at arm's length. He is not escalating your relationship. He keeps it stagnant so he doesn't have to tell you the truth, that he enjoys you but he's not in love with you. He will ride it until you realize it's going nowhere. Why he does it? because that's all he needs. That's all he's capable of giving. He is not like you looking forward to create a bond, build something solid together. 7
peach302 Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Glam said: Why would he want to hide saying no? He has known how I feel since 6 months into our relationship so he has known quite a while already and there is no signs he is going to break up with me any time soon.. Obviously because if it is a no and he tells you ..you may not want to stick around. Why would he break up with a person who he does like to some extent and who loves him. Its convenient for him. That is of course if he doesn't feel the same. Instead of procrastinating you should take action and go right up to him and ask. Not that difficult. If i was in your position though, i wouldnt have hung around with someone months after they said they didnt feel the same way as me. Edited February 1, 2021 by peach302 1
introverted1 Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 24 minutes ago, Glam said: Why would he want to hide saying no? He has known how I feel since 6 months into our relationship so he has known quite a while already and there is no signs he is going to break up with me any time soon.. You're the one who said: On 1/30/2021 at 10:16 PM, Glam said: I’ve asked him to even say yes or no and he refuses to talk about it. Just says he doesn’t like talking about those things. I literally can’t get an answer.. that definitely means he doesn’t In general, when someone refuses to give an answer, it's because they know the asker won't like the answer. If his response to you asking for a 'yes' or 'no' if he loves you was 'yes,' then he'd say that, I'd think. It would be pretty easy to do, even if he followed it up by saying that he's not verbally expressive on a day-to-day basis. You'd be ok with that because you would know that his actions were reflecting feelings of love. On the other hand, if he said 'no,' that he doesn't love you, then he has to deal with hurting you and the fallout from that, which probably includes a breakup. He may be fooling himself as much as you in believing that he will fall in love at some future point, but I would say that this is extremely unlikely. If he's not there after 15 months, he probably never will be. And yes, I read that he was eager at the start, that he wanted to advance the r/s faster than you did. It could be that the limerance he felt at the start never grew into love. It happens, unfortunately. 3
amygirl908 Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) This to me is not about saying I love you or not, nor is it about what women vs men want. It's about communication. He has flat out refused to communicate about something that is super basic IMO. If you can't talk about your feelings on even a surface level basis you are not emotionally ready to be in a relationship romantic or otherwise. He can't even say he doesn't know how he feels and he tells her "I don't talk about such things" which IMO is borderline condescending. You're in a relationship to build a partnership and communication is a requirement. Honestly if I had a friend talk to me like this they wouldn't be my friend anymore I don't have time for people who have to hide something. At some point you have to talk about things and in my experience it's usually better to just pull off the band-aid and talk about them. 100% of the time I'm happy that I did. The fact that he will not even talk to her about his feelings is a huge red flag and pretty immature. I echo what a lot of people have said is that silence probably means no and he's not telling you to "save your feelings".... The last guy I dated said and did all of these things to "not hurt my feelings" which in turn messed me up way more than if he had just been honest with me. It's such a cop out. "Well I had good intentions I didn't meant to hurt you"... still doesn't negate the fact that you did. You don't want someone who just says what you want to hear. As many have said actions speak louder than words, but communication is also essential to strong relationships. Literally all of the world's problems could be solved if we communicated better. If you drill down to the problem at it's most basic level the problem stems from some form of miscommunication. Ultimately we all decide what kind of a relationship and what kind of timetable we want to be on, but someone who won't communicate with you is not someone you want to be in a relationship with. Edited February 1, 2021 by amygirl908 4 1
Author Glam Posted February 1, 2021 Author Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, peach302 said: Obviously because if it is a no and he tells you ..you may not want to stick around. Why would he break up with a person who he does like to some extent and who loves him. Its convenient for him. That is of course if he doesn't feel the same. Instead of procrastinating you should take action and go right up to him and ask. Not that difficult. If i was in your position though, i wouldnt have hung around with someone months after they said they didnt feel the same way as me. This does make sense. I haven’t thought about it from every angle. I have a lot to think about so far , did not think this thread would get so many replies lol 1
Author Glam Posted February 1, 2021 Author Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, amygirl908 said: Maybe I'm misunderstanding the OP... How far does this not talking about feelings go? Is it just when you've brought up saying ILY or does it extend as far as never discussing or expressing emotions and feelings? He has never really discussed feelings. I mean he did say how much he likes me at the very start, and he has said he misses me a handful of times but he’s never expressed emotions much. He’s always been that way. And from what he has told me that’s the way he’s been always Edited February 2, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator focusing on OP
smackie9 Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 Now you are just back peddling and saying well it's just the way he is, so I shouldn't look at it as a problem or I will lose him..... 2
Author Glam Posted February 1, 2021 Author Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, smackie9 said: Now you are just back peddling and saying well it's just the way he is, so I shouldn't look at it as a problem or I will lose him..... Massive assumption there, nowhere in this thread did I say it wasn’t a problem , I’m simply giving information because someone asked.
Gaeta Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 Just a small note. Love language is for people that give and receive love. He doesn't need to activate his love language he's not in love. His needs are met because they are basic sex, minimal companionship. 1
Gaeta Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 Glam: I'm going to share a quick story with you. I dated a man for a whole year and he didn't want to say ILY. His reasons were what's the rush? aren't we enjoying what we have? I need time to say those words, etc etc. After 1 year I finally broke it up. Fast forward a few months he calls me and ask if he can stop by. We had remained friendly with each other so I said 'sure'. Well, he came over, sat on my couch and broke down in tears because a gf had just broken up with him and he was ...yes madly in love with her.
FMW Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 Ok, how about this approach. Tell him what your relationship goals are and ask him if he wants the same thing. That's not asking about his feelings or emotions - it's getting to the point that's being talked about a lot on this thread - is the relationship going anywhere. Maybe he'll tell you he shares your goals, maybe he'll say he likes things exactly as they are. If he pulls out another "I don't talk about that kind of thing" answer, I think you will then not have any doubt about whether you should stay with him. You can't force him to talk. Your power in this relationship is your ability to walk away when it no longer fits your needs. If you choose to walk away, don't do it with hope that it will make him come after you. Make sure you are ready for it to be over. 3
littleblackheart Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Glam said: He has never really discussed feelings. I mean he did say how much he likes me at the very start, and he has said he misses me a handful of times but he’s never expressed emotions much. He’s always been that way. And from what he has told me that’s the way he’s been always This is who he is, OP. Not entirely sure how this thread has descended into a gender thing, to be honest. I'm a woman in my 40s, and I relate to this. It doesn't mean he doesn't have any emotions - he does, evidently. He needs to gently and kindly be 'taught' how to express them; not with ultimatums and yes or no questions, rather with a lot of understanding and positivity. I would start by telling him you can see how much he cares for you by giving him specific examples you have noticed he has done for you (you don't need to list them here), that you completely get he is struggling with communicating raw emotions (for me, that's because I find telling these words to someone I care extremely personal and meaningful, it makes me feel very vulnerable, the only 2 people I say these words liberally to are my children) and you really appreciate it is out of his comfort zone, but you need to know that he feels the same way you do. No judgement, no threats to leave the relationship. I don't guarantee that approach will work on him (it'd definitely work on me!), but it's worth a try. If he does care and doesn't want to lose you, here's hoping he'll open up. 1
Lisa Posted February 2, 2021 Senior Moderators Posted February 2, 2021 This thread has had an extensive clean up. While we recognize that different posters have different ideas and advice, we ask you to keep the OP at the front and center of your posts. Discussions which aren't inclusive of the OP are to be avoided.
Lisa_Lisa Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 OP, just remember, a man can be with a woman for years and never love her because they can afford to waste their time. I know you love him, but you will get tired of being expressive and him not expressing any emotion. It's tough, but you must love yourself more than him, and walk away. 3
dramafreezone Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 I can't in good conscience ever recommend that someone leave what they've called the best relationship they've ever had. I do understand it though if you discuss goals and his are just not compatible with yours. I hope you make the right decision for yourself and can say you did so without regret.
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